Urban Guru Cafe

Discovering what you truly are

17. Interview with Bob Adamson – Part 1 ******

Posted on 10.05.08 5:29PM under Bob Adamson, Podcast

This is a remarkable interview with ‘Sailor Bob’ Adamson. Remarkable, because of various elements – the first being that it has a quality of a ‘one to one’ or ‘heart to heart’ which is not always present in meeting recordings. Bob very clearly exposes, one after another, the erroneous beliefs and ideas that ‘we’ hold onto in our misunderstanding of Non Duality or reality, if you like. This unique interview (split into two parts) should not be missed – even by those who are very familiar with Bob’s message for it is bound to have an impact. -With unswerving clarity, Bob openly demonstrates a clear understanding which removes all the difficulties of belief. THIS clear understanding is totally accessible to anyone and everyone – just listen. – It is suggested that you listen to it a few times. Let it sink in.  All you have to do is follow what is being pointed out and ‘Hear it’. – Part two appears after this program.  Music by Erik Satie – and additional music by Anouar Brahem.

Bob’s latest book “One Essence expressing and appearing as Everything” is an excellent follow up to this interview – it is available through Bob’s website.

Free Podcast on Non Duality.

Read Comments

  1. Posted by Mark Ellis on 10.05.08 10:49 pm

    Thank you Areti & Bob !
    It seems so simple when pointed at in this way.
    All of the words “appear” in the seeing/knowing – meaning nothing.
    I can’t drink the word “water” – Direct experiencing – without anyone here to experience anything. This is devastating to the perceived ego, as (it) is “Seen” to be just another concept – Me, ego, self – No Substance Whatsoever.
    Hmm – Spot on. – Mark

  2. Posted by MARGO on 10.06.08 5:24 am

    Thank You Bob Seal and Gilbert for your response in the previous post.
    After listening to Bob , it becomes clear AGAIN for “the moment” that there is only awareness and what the awareness is aware of – (content of the mind and the world of objects). I guess my so called “problem and confusion” comes from trying to do something about the content. There is a voice saying that something has to be done and I better take action ,or there will be consequences for not taking action. Despite of knowing that the appearance is of ONE appearing as many and this body -mind organism is part of that appearance,I give my attention to the mind that is saying that something has to be done or else!
    Bob- I like how you said; ” Just let the awareness do whatever it does with what’s happening.If something needs to be done, it will just occur to you to do it. There is no need to TRY! Let the frustration just be, watch it, feel the emotion that comes up and just watch what happens, if thoughts come up, just watch them, make no judgment with the mind or if judgments come up just let them be”. Thanks for that!

    Also Gilbert ,you said ; ” There is an ‘I’ trying to look for ’something’. So it is all mind content tossing this way and that. There is no one seeing. The one that imagines it sees is an appearance in SEEING. The one SEEING is the ONE – without a second “.
    It looks like whenever I have a problem or am confused I have identified with the body, mind, “me”, in the context and am trying to fix the other objects in the context. The appearance is trying to fix or manipulate another appearance and sense this is impossible frustration and confusion is the result. The mind is chasing its own tail and getting frustrated? So my conclusion is that I have to stay with the fact that I AM AWARE and the rest is transient appearances only? No need to try to do anything, it will be obvious what has to be done?
    I am getting tired of repeating the same thing to my self and 5 mins later completely forgetting about it, like I had never understood it before, and again reacting to the content with fear, frustration, desperation.
    I am grateful to all of you for the patience and persistence of repeating the same thing over and over, no matter how many times it has been already said before. It is easy to return to the old ways of perceiving without the constant reinforcement from all the people that had SEEN the truth with Bob’s help.
    Thank You Bob and Areti and all involved in producing UGC podcast.

  3. Posted by susana on 10.06.08 5:38 am

    “I can’t drink the word ‘water’…” – also produced a sigh of recognition.
    Thanking you once again for the reminders.
    As Bob says it took years of repetition for us to have these erroneous beliefs in a me.
    So thank you for the constant reminding.
    To all involved.

  4. Posted by areti on 10.06.08 8:17 am

    You know Margo, Bob starts his meeting here in Melbourne with a chuckle and a comment along the lines of; ‘Let’s talk about something different today, let’s talk about non-duality’ and he never tires of pointing us, yet again, to what we truly are. Or he might say ‘It’s the same thing we talk about, the same thing that has been pointed to in history in all the religions.’

    I am sure that all will enjoy part 2 when Bob says it all again!

  5. Posted by Bob Seal on 10.06.08 11:08 am

    It’s always good to hear Sailor Bob speak so clearly.
    Thanks for the podcast. Areti and Gilbert.

    The bottom line here is . . .
    THAT which is aware of everything needs nothing.
    (Nothing is personal).
    All there is, is ONE.
    I AM THAT.

    Hsin Hsin Ming:
    “Although all dualities come from the One, do not be attached even to this One.”

    How can there be a personal doing if all is ONE!
    As Sailor Bob says, “You are being lived”

    Margo: The case here was that there came a point when the mind just expired or collapsed in exhaustion at trying to understand all this stuff and then it was like something came to the surface. It was not anything volitional, it just bubbled up to the surface and a peace clarity appeared. Then there was a drifting back into forgetfulness and a reappearance of clarity. This still happens here, but now it’s not regarded as important. There is no trying to do anything with it anymore.

  6. Posted by gilbert on 10.06.08 5:07 pm

    Margo, the thought ‘I am identifying with the body – mind, ‘me’ – is just the way the mind plays with it all. Drop the thought of being an ‘I’ – you do not disappear without that thought – in fact much of the time that thought is not there and life simply happens. As soon as the ‘me’ reference point is added, then the old problems enter center stage.
    What you are is actually space-like, invisible – in that invisible space the world and everything appears. It all registers as impressions – without labels. Then the mind adds its interpretation and ‘we’ take that to be reality. It is as though one needs to get behind the thoughts – dropping thoughts is the cleanest way to SEE that you are not a thought.
    There are no methods and the clear seeing is always happening – be that – it is what you are – no matter what the mind tells you. Taste this naked awareness – this non-conceptual presence awareness. It is completely available – though the mind will make up all sorts of ‘reasons’ why it isn’t available – the story of ‘me’ is NOT what you ARE.
    No one can convince you of this – you must ‘drink from the well’ of your own infinite being.
    All that anyone can do (for you) is point to THAT. It must be recognized – not conceptualized. This interview with Bob is extremely informing of so many points. Listen to it over and over if needs be. All of the habitual pathways of the mind are softly and quietly evaporated in the instant of recognizing what Bob is so patiently pointing out. Another way I put it is “It sinks in”. Intelligence cannot be smothered by ignorance – it shines ever from beyond the appearance of ‘things’. You are not a ‘thing’. What you truly are is shining THROUGH the mind. What a beautiful interview it is – here in this pattern called Gilbert a smidgen of sadness lasts for a moment before it is discarded….a sadness that so many hear it and yet they don’t actually ‘hear it’. Often a ‘seed’ is planted and it germinates ‘later’ – yet everyone is ALREADY that One without a second.
    One Essence is all inclusive.
    Warm regards – Gilbert.

  7. Posted by susana on 10.06.08 11:57 pm

    Upon the third listening, a huge YES arises.
    And the very things that were being resisted yesterday ……….
    Yes, yes, yes.

  8. Posted by Charlie on 10.07.08 1:04 pm

    Just a BIG thanks to my dear friend Bob, also to Gilbert and Areti, for this great stuff … reminds me of when I was at Bob’s and he told me to take a walk around the neighborhood and simply not label what was seen – and in that happening, the label of the believed “I” – seer also faded to white. That ‘when’ was the same as this ‘when’ – NOW. Amazing … “Grace!”

  9. Posted by Bill Tys on 10.07.08 11:03 pm

    What is there to say…except “Thank you Bob!”

  10. Posted by Ralph on 10.08.08 10:31 am

    How does the dreamer awake ?
    It cannot. Once the dream is seen as a dream …. the game is over….
    Peace and Freedom will then be yours again … of course, it was always there.
    The dream was the obstacle.

    Awakeness IS…… full stop.

    I also thank you Bob!

  11. Posted by Fritof Rimpoke on 10.09.08 7:35 am

    But isn’t the body somehow tied to this locus of awareness?

    When the body dies, the animating spirit (life) is gone. In the meantime, the body’s carried about.

    Even if the projection of thought in awareness doesn’t succumb to a believed in me, the body-mind still moves through this consensual appearance.

    Therefore, body-mind still feels like separation, and prone to protect…

    “Treat the body as your friend – not as some unwanted visitor.” -Gji

  12. Posted by Mark Ellis on 10.09.08 3:06 pm

    “the body’s carried about”……..
    Who or what carries the body about?

    “Treat the body as your friend”……
    Who or what treats the body in any way?

    M

  13. Posted by gilbert on 10.09.08 11:04 pm

    You are the intelligence which weaves the body from the elements………
    The body is awareness – immediacy itself. If the heart stops or the breathing stops for any ‘reason’ is there a separate ‘entity’ that can re-start it all?
    There is NO separation – and ‘all the thinking’ in ‘all the world’ cannot get behind the cognizing – the knowing – the intelligence that ‘appears’ as everything.
    These thoughts, all thoughts, no matter ‘who’ believes that ‘they ‘are having them’ are just awareness appearing as ‘patterns’. The WHOLE universe is ONE pattern – appearing as patterns within patterns. It is ALL animated by one PULSE. This pulse does not start or stop and it does not have any polar aspects except in the appearance of dualism – nature.
    Nature is not in conflict with Nature. Separation is only in the appearance – THAT which is cognizing, KNOWING, is SINGULAR. THAT is what you are – not what the patterns, appearances in mind suggest through MENTAL-IZING.
    Drop thought for even a moment and everything is revealed AS being clear and obvious….just AS it IS – not as what the mind interprets it as.
    As Bob says: “The only way out of the mind is full stop”
    It seems that everyone passes over these pointers – and ‘they’ just keep going back into the ‘mind’ and believing what the ‘mind’ translates and in that pattern is the ‘thinking and believing’ that that thinking is ‘reality’.
    Reality is THAT which does NOT change. Thought is so obviously nothing but a constant dividing and change-ful series of patterns – so how can it lead anyone to REALITY?
    To KNOW reality you must BE REALITY.
    And what you actually ARE IS reality – yet that believed in ‘me’ is nothing but a STORY – a fancy story about ‘someone’. Investigate that and the belief falls apart.
    GOT IT? No? Then, listen to the program again.

    But if ‘you’ are already in full flight with more mentalizing, more thoughts – what can be done for you?
    There is NO…..NO…..NO answer in the mind.
    The mind is the ‘me’. That believed in ‘me’ is full of expectation…….an expectation of ‘getting this’ – whatever THIS has been conceptualized into. Can you see the absurdity of it all?
    Mice running around a wheel of conceptualizing. One mouse, every ‘now and then’, falls off the wheel and a peace beyond understanding (beyond the mind) is found to be present AS this PRESENCE of KNOWING – without an entity present.
    “Words……….The way is beyond words” – ancient text.

  14. Posted by Mark Ellis on 10.10.08 3:20 am

    You are the intelligence which weaves the body from the elements………

    That’s just it… nothing else is needed here~
    M

  15. Posted by Ralph on 10.10.08 5:24 am

    Stuck in the mind ? well then….

    ‘Use the mind to know the mind to get beyond the mind’.

    and then… you may see that the answer is not in the mind.

  16. Posted by gilbert on 10.10.08 9:29 pm

    AND that there never could be a ‘someone’ caught in a ‘mind’. That is just an idea – a concept. What substance does a concept have? Ephemeral appearances have no substance. All our arguments are nothing but energy appearing as ‘bi-forms’ (duality) in this singularity – this ‘space-like awareness’.
    The word ‘Individual’ means undivided – One whole.
    Intelligence appears as This ONE – as EVERYTHING – there are no exceptions – nothing can be outside of THAT – nor Inside of THAT.
    No separation. Full stop. Just THIS as it is.

  17. Posted by linda on 10.11.08 10:01 am

    Is it possible for these talks or the comments to discuss the purpose/value of deep meditative experience and the value of these for seeing nondual reality.
    The Light, bindu, thigles, jhanas, nimitta, siddhis, where do these fit in the scheme of things.

    Who is there to have these experiences can be answered with, who is there to realize non duality.

  18. Posted by gilbert on 10.11.08 10:28 am

    I suggest that one may need to listen to the interview a few times – it is so potently full of pointers. The second part of the interview will be added next week.
    Basically the whole point is that there is no ‘person’ in reality. The believed in ‘entity’ is a fiction. All these activities you mention have no more relevance than any other activity. It is the ‘spiritual self-image’, that one may have, that is the problem – the belief of being a separate ‘person’. That is the crux of it all – it is an un-avoidable fact that must be faced, one way or another.
    The essential message is that ‘right here, right now’ (This ‘now’ is all there ever IS) a word ‘I’ appears and because that has no substance, ‘we’ add events and experiences to it to give it some SEEMING substance. Adding to this belief, ‘we’ do meditation or whatever, THINKING that ‘I’ will ‘gain’ something MORE than what ‘I’ already ‘AM’.
    This unadorned presence of ‘I am-ness’ (which are simply words efficiently expressing THAT – This Presence) is NAKED Awareness. It is NON DUAL. All experiences are dualistic and belong to memory – a story that is added to that sense of ‘I’. Awareness is un-mediated presence, direct and immediate (always this) – it never, NEVER deviates into TIME.
    So, being THIS, one can SEE that all such questions ‘hang off’ a belief in being ‘someone’.
    If this ‘someone’ is not seen clearly for what it is, then the clarity of natural seeing – the seeing of what is, is SEEMINGLY obstructed. Awareness is NEVER obstructed by any ‘thing’. Where are you SEEING from?
    There can never be an answer to this question – the only ‘answer’ is the SEEING itself – and SEEING is not an object. It can never be reduced to a word or concept.
    It is Naked awareness itself – without a ‘self’. It is emptiness – suffused with the capacity of KNOWING.
    No one ever ‘became’ or ‘becomes’ enlightened – they are just all stories about someone-else. Even the story of Buddha is misleading because everyone takes ‘him’ to be a ‘person’. The word Buddha simply mean AWAKE. Are you not awake right now?
    If you indulge in a story about ‘I am enlightened’ – it is just very obviously ‘self-indulged bullshit’. This is obviously recognized playing itself out as the ‘holier then thou guru’ – who say “Do what I tell you and you can be like me” or “I am in a state that you can acquire” or “don’t worry, I am always with you” etc.
    The ‘thick skinned’ seeker is stubbornness – a clinging sensation in the body/mind. It is only an appearance and the ‘thick skin’ is the concept of being separate.
    Hence there is NO way out for the seeker – the belief must be dissolved, along with the false identity. (‘Who’ could really want that?)
    ‘You’ as that believed in ‘person’ sees ‘many’ where there is truly Only ONE.
    The particularized is partiality, duality – There is NO duality in non duality. This expression is unsatisfactory for the ‘believer’ – it is undeniable for ‘the realized one’ – the realized one is nothing but SEEING-KNOWING. THAT, This naked awareness is actually untouched by time or space – it remains as the ‘un-manifested’, yet it appears as ALL the manifestation, all the apparent separate patterns that appear. Not two. There is no separation between these multiple patterns – there only appears to be multiple boundaries between ‘things’ – investigate any boundary and it will vanish into space.
    It is ALL ‘space-like awareness’.
    The WHOLE, the TOTALITY, is ENLIGHTENMENT – there is NO ‘Other’. One without a second.

  19. Posted by linda on 10.11.08 11:49 am

    The point that stood out was

    “All these activities you mention have no more relevance than any other activity.”

    Fair enough, but in response to this the question is

    Isnt the revelance of each activity from a nondual viewpoint whether or not I take there to be a me determining the activity or the alternative whether it is seen as life living itself .

    Life living itself as this human experience may take a path that pursues meditative experience (or not).

    I suspect that we are all seeing this stuff from a very limited perspective until we truly see reality through deep meditative experience. It may be the difference between seeing the nondual truth from the top down (omniscience, omniprescence, omnipotence), rather than from the bottom (human experience) up.

    Do you think it is possible that the nondual seeing being generally taught here could possibly only be a preliminary seeing with the potential for much further expansion into beingness/conscious/awareness?

  20. Posted by Tom on 10.11.08 12:45 pm

    The other day I was looking at a tree. I thought: How can that and this ‘me’ be one? And the thought – or thoughts – came that the whole being and history of that tree- so maybe we should just call it “that” – is here now and nowhere else and it has no extension in any other realm, scientific or historical or whatever. Whatever it is, is here now in this seeing. It is utterly dependent for its being, on the seeing and in fact it is the seeing. And the seeing is what? The knowing. And in this way it dawned on me, the oneness of things known – and the knower – I don’t know if Bob Adamson’s pointers led to this comprehension or not. I certainly have heard enough of them.

  21. Posted by gilbert on 10.11.08 1:23 pm

    (to Linda) All points of view APPEAR in the SEEING. Investigate any one of them and SEEING is the primary ‘tool’ used – that is only a concept pointing at a fact. Seeing cannot be a tool or an object – but you may well SEE what I am getting at.
    The problem is that there is a belief that there is ‘someone looking’ – ‘someone that still has got to get something’ a sense of incompleteness.
    The investigation needs to explore that sense of incompleteness and expose that it is all conceptual nonsense. It will evaporate before your own eyes – in the SEEING. In seeing that – the beliefs are no longer a problem, even if they do re-appear – they are known for what they are. There is no ‘I’ in the SEEING.
    That activity of a ‘me doing meditation’ is NOT seeing anything at all. It is BELIEF – it is the mind translating the seeing into a personalized ‘point of view’ – which is the ‘me’. It is only an appearance and it has no substance.
    Deep meditative experience is just a conceptual limitation that the apparent ‘seeker’ is attached to. There is no ‘deeper’ or ‘shallow’ to THIS presence. There is no center and no circumference to THIS. There is no up or down, inside or outside, right or wrong etc.
    Non dual seeing is a concept. There is only one SEEING ‘happening’ and no labels are attached to it – they all APPEAR in the seeing. There is no ‘human experience’ – that is just another label. ‘You’ can hold onto the labels and juggle them until the cows come home and it will make no difference. You can meditate for a lifetime and as long as there is a concept and belief that there is ‘someone doing the meditation’ then the HOOK is not straightened. This pointing is not popular – because it is a direct threat to the beliefs one has. To drop those beliefs ‘one needs to BE’ or have a strong sense of ‘being open’ and present at the forefront of this experiencing, without any preconceived ideas – about anything at all. The courage to drop the concepts arises spontaneously from the intelligence that you ARE – not from some belief.
    Running off into concepts again is what most of us ‘do’ – trying to justify our ‘point of view’. It is useless – because all points of view have NO substance whatsoever. We are talking about Non Duality here – not ‘consensus reality’ – you can’t argue with a high court judge with this kind of conversation – although I know of one Californian Guru who tried to and got a good ‘whack in the nose’.
    The ‘years of investment’ (belief and story) into those meditating experiences have not done a damn thing – be honest – why is the seeking still going on if it really did help? – the belief that it has culminated in some final or greater understanding beyond this naked presence right here, right now, may well be an obstacle to be let go of. (by no one).

  22. Posted by gilbert on 10.11.08 1:31 pm

    Tom – yes the key point you express is: The tree appears in the seeing – in fact it is the SEEING.
    There is no separation.
    The mentalizing that everyone gets caught in is also appearing in the seeing – but it is not recognized as THAT – it is believed in ‘from a point of view’ of being separate. ‘I see’ – ‘I know’. All there is is KNOWING. There is no ‘I Know’ that is separate from the KNOWING.
    There is no separate ‘thing’ that is not contained in the SEEING. It is the seeing.
    When the concept of ‘I see’ is dropped – the seeing does not go away.
    See……..see…….see……..seeing is not an event in time. It is unceasing – timeless.

  23. Posted by linda on 10.11.08 4:12 pm

    yes Gilbert,

    “The investigation needs to explore that sense of incompleteness and expose that it is all conceptual nonsense. It will evaporate before your own eyes – in the SEEING. ”

    thanks.

  24. Posted by gilbert on 10.11.08 4:31 pm

    No one can separate the appearance (anything that appears in the seeing) from the seeing. The concept of being a ‘seer’ is the apparent form that ‘appears’ coupled with the ‘object seen’ – so the ‘seer’ and the ‘seen’ (duality) are appearances in the SEEING (Non Dual).
    Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj pointed this out in the 1930’s. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj ‘heard’ what his teacher was pointing at. A quote from Siddharameshwar is this: “Duality is due to two ‘entities’ – the ‘seer’ and the ‘seen'”. So you SEE this is not something new that is being pointed out. It has been pointed out down through the ages. The definition of reality is “That which never changes”. These facts being pointed belong to the unchanging truth.
    Other quotes from him may be read on the “Three Teachers” page on my website: http://www.shiningthroughthemind.net
    (Can the formless know the form? – can the form know the formless?)

  25. Posted by MARK01 on 10.12.08 3:30 am

    You are THAT which is before the KNOWING .
    And DO NOT STOP THERE !
    (Editor’s note: “Mark, How do you ‘know’ that?” It is a valid question, given the nature of your statement)

  26. Posted by gilbert on 10.12.08 9:18 am

    The mind tries to divide and imagine boundaries and separations that do not exist. No one can get behind that cognizing. No one can go beyond no thing. Postulating some imaginary Real Estate and then trying to sell it to someone is a jail-able offense out there in ‘Consensus Reality’ (Realty). Where can you truly go, from right HERE, right NOW?

  27. Posted by Bill Tys on 10.12.08 11:06 am

    If the instrument (me) is not thinking, not conceptualising, not pumping out ideas, not making any declarations…then natural functioning is happening…

    If the instrument (me) IS thinking, IS conceptualising, IS pumping out ideas, IS making declarations…then natural functioning IS happening…

    The appearance (all of it!) IS the natural functioning…the manifestation IS the intelligence!

    The bean shoot (which is the appearance…essentially with no substance) bursting through the soil, IS the intelligence.

    The concept of “me” (which is the appearance…with no substance) popping up all over the place, IS the intelligence.

    The appearing duality comes about when the “me” is believed in.

    The intelligence has no reference points and is all encompassing.

  28. Posted by gilbert on 10.12.08 4:19 pm

    The ‘Me’ is not an instrument – it has no substance whatsoever – it is merely belief.
    One need not attribute it with qualities it does not have – Hasn’t that been the whole problem? Believing that it can ‘think’, ‘see’ and ‘do’ etc.
    There is NO separation, it is true – yet if the belief continues to flow into that ‘me’ then that ‘sense of separation’, due to the belief in the ‘me’, will naturally bring unnecessary psychological troubles.
    The bean shoot is seeking the Sun. It all belongs to nature. Beautiful to see.
    Can you attribute the same qualities to the ‘me’?
    Just ‘tossing the salad’ Bill. Needs some salt I think.

  29. Posted by Bill Tys on 10.12.08 10:44 pm

    The instrument is the appearing meat and bones…and a “me” arises…as Bob says, this will always be the case while the body exists.

    The “me” certainly has no substance whatsoever, as we know on investigating…but it does not mean that it disappears! The sea still appears blue and the mirage still appears, but we know both to be false.

    Psychological troubles are not there as long as “one knows what’s cooking”…then the “me” and the “I” are used with impunity.

    The appearance, and I mean all of it, including a believed in “me”, is the intelligence.

    Sometimes too many cooks spoil the broth!

  30. Posted by gilbert on 10.12.08 11:34 pm

    Well, hang onto it if you must. The ‘me’ is a very limited pattern of the Intelligence – the shining brilliance of simply being present without the belief in any ‘me’ is unobstructed intelligence – naked awareness. No words can convey or transmit that brilliance – when a ‘pointer’ is recognized, there is no ‘me’ in that recognition. The recognition is pure intelligence breaking through the crust of belief.
    In fact the main reason why the pointers are not usually clearly recognized is because of the belief in a ‘me’ – ‘My agenda’ does not include seeing through that ‘me’ and it’s ‘agenda’.
    Yesterday’s insight is dead and gone – it is useless. Most seekers keep an account based on pass experience and go looking for some sort of repeat experience – overlooking the very nature of clear and present evidence.
    The basic point is that the turmoil of inner conflict and psychological suffering is completely unnecessary. You can live very well without it – but the ‘me’ needs to be seen for what it is – not dressed up as being OK. I am not itching for a fight – this is about being clear and when it comes to the question of the nature of the so-called ‘me’ it needs to be very clear. Nothing held back. It is a weed that will sprout over and over if it is not pulled out by the roots.
    Just saying it is part and parcel of the intelligence will not ‘cut the cake’.

    By the way Bill, I am not ‘the button pusher’ – I am just pushing buttons ’till The Button Pusher comes.

  31. Posted by tomvds on 10.13.08 12:04 am

    Great podcast. You have to listen and re-listen. Because he says so much things in one breath. That’s why I like “One essence appearing as Everything” – You can enjoy it in your own time.
    Sailor BOB: “Of course that I-thought comes up, that’s seemingly closely aligned to It (the intelligence). And seemingly close to It, we believe we are that ‘I’ … you know that intelligence has been translated by or with the ‘I’ thought … the piece of iron in the fire has seemingly taken up the quality of the fire. It’s got red and pick it up it can burn, the mind seemingly … the mental image we got of ourselves , the physical mental image seemingly doing these things out of itself. And we say: this is what I am, I can choose I can do what I will, I can do all of these things.
    BUT TAKE THAT PIECE OF IRON OUT OF THE FIRE IT CAN’T DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS.
    Take this alive essence this wakefulness out of the body and see how many things it can do If it’s not animated by that Life -essence, it falls apart, falls back into the emptiness itself. Nothing is lost however. The pattern breaks down. Nothing is born, nothing can die. It’s all the same intelligence energy.”

    This ‘me’ you speak about Bill Thys, is just a translation in the mind of THAT. And indeed as a separate entity It will not disappear because It never was in the first place!

  32. Posted by Bill Tys on 10.13.08 12:44 am

    Some well known sayings…(my comments in brackets)

    Before enlightenment, chop wood , carry water…after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water…(so nothing changes!)

    The search is the problem…(so stop seeking!)

    Enjoy it while you can… (because this is all there is!)

    It does not get any better than this…(because nothing changes!)

    There is nothing to get… (because there is nothing to get!)

    There is nothing wrong with the mind…it is a wonderful instrument…it invented the didgeridoo!…(the mind is a useful instrument!)

    In other words the status quo remains! Nothing changes. It does not matter that the “I” appears…and saying that the “I” is the intelligence is most certainly correct… having done the investigation and found the “I” to be a phantom.

    The appearance is the intelligence and the “I” cannot be excluded. As Bob says in this audio “It’s all the same intelligence energy.”

    As you say Gilbert…

    “The ‘me’ is (a very limited pattern of ) the Intelligence” (my brackets)

    The “me” is OK…we all experience the “me”…

    The “me” is not a weed…it is the intelligence!

    The “me” is only a problem if you believe in it and hence inner conflict and psychological suffering arises…which again is just the intelligence…

    PS: By the way, I am not ‘the writer of this article’ – writing articles is just happening until The Article Writer comes…

  33. Posted by gilbert on 10.13.08 1:48 am

    Yes……and in THIS presence, right here, right now, can you find a ‘before’ (enlightenment) or an ‘after’ (enlightenment)? The WHOLE is the TOTALITY – Total enlightenment – that distant Star ‘up there’ is THAT – there NEVER was an enlightened being that is, was or could ever be separate from THAT. It is ALL THAT.
    All this before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water is nonsense – a story – and that is what the ‘me’ is – just a story. How can a bunch of words ‘do’ anything? But it sure ‘appears’ that words do something – they can raise the hairs on a bald chicken if you poke him in the ‘me’ with the right words.
    How’s that Chicken broth coming along Bill? It may have burned to a crisp while you were filling in for the Article Writer. Good points by the way.
    P.S. A boomerang is heaps better than a didgeridoo and less noisy – same guy invented it.

  34. Posted by Bill Tys on 10.13.08 10:41 am

    The title of Bob’s latest book “One Essence Appearing and Expressing as Everything”…surely says it all…

    The concept of ‘before’ or ‘after’, chopping wood, silly gurus, nonsense, bald chickens, didgeridoos, economic collapse, laughter, joy and crying, the me, the I, the reference point…all is the intelligence energy.

    This cannot be watered down or adjusted or negotiated…and if it is, then the watering down is the intelligence.

    The glowing poker coming out of the fire claims it can burn, can heat, can glow…humans claim they think, choose and do…and will continue to do so while they have a body…UNLESS they ernestly investigate the ‘I’ and see it as a phantom. Then we just “go about our business” cooking pizza or playing didgeridoo.

    Gilbert…I am sure we are talking about the same thing. Let’s hope this friendly interchange has been positive for readers. I need to go and roll up some futons.

  35. Posted by gilbert on 10.13.08 11:03 am

    Yes, every conversation anywhere at any time is about THAT – no matter how ‘off beam’ or ‘on the ball’ it may appear to be. It seems that the stimulation brings about insights. The slightest shift in ANGLE can make a lot of difference and undermine the habitual view – or so it seems. Anything that brings the recognition is VALID. It can take any form whatsoever.
    It is this SINGULAR intelligence that is ‘doing’ it all.
    Don’t worry about the readers. A lot of them have spent the majority of their lives being misled by gurus. Therefore these conversations may well be like a breath of fresh air for them. At no point is anyone encouraged to BELIEVE what is being offered. No money has been asked for. Surely that in itself must strike a home run for a lot of ‘em. Intelligence got this Urban Guru Cafe happening – you can’t get a decent coffee here but what is on the menu is pretty damn good. These tit bits in the comment pages are a bonus. I can tell you now, that when a comment is made from here, or a lengthy note is posted on my website, I have no idea of how it is going to turn out. Writing just happens. If I start to think about it, it can twist and turn into a circus clown. We all need a good laugh. So many of these ‘seekers’ are dead pan serious and they need a good belly laugh. real bad.
    Here’s one: “Hey, where’s my Mars bar?” Anyone who knows that tapeworm joke may have a chuckle. He he.

  36. Posted by Richard on 10.13.08 3:04 pm

    Hey Gilbert,

    It’s been a long time since I’ve had any tit bits.

    Sorry. I tend to get a little drunk at the Cafe. Are there any help groups for recovering seekers?

  37. Posted by gilbert on 10.13.08 3:13 pm

    Seekers never recover – they just fade away – and old fishermen don’t die – they just smell that way. Maybe you should get out a little more. Best we don’t get too silly in these comments though – the administrator will delete them, to be sure.

  38. Posted by Jay H. on 10.13.08 4:55 pm

    Whilst it is understood that language is relied upon in all of it’s dualistic glory to attempt to point beyond what is being said, over here there remains a ‘sticking point’ on the concept of self-inquiry.

    If everything is THAT, and there is no doer, choice maker or anyone with volition, then with respect:

    1) WHO can choose to ‘earnestly investigate the ‘I’’?
    2) WHO chooses to stop a thought?

    If there is no individual, and everything is THAT, then surely inquiry is as useful and as relevant as an ashtray for a motorbike or sitting on the toilet with a crossword puzzle.

    Everything happens spontaneously including the thought “I must investigate the I”, so latching on to certain thoughts and disregarding others is more separation, more violence and a subtle belief in a personal doer who can choose to act on this thought rather than that one.

    So what to do when there’s nothing that ‘I’ can do?

    Being misled by Guru’s is also valid, non?

  39. Posted by gilbert on 10.13.08 7:38 pm

    It is not a matter of ‘who’ – that could only be a psychological pattern, appearing in or on awareness.
    The ‘me’ that one thinks one is is the one that suffers – pain is pain – the unnecessary suffering we are talking about is the ‘story of me’ which adds to the equation a resistance to ‘what is’.
    The intelligence that one IS is SEEING – the essence of what we call ‘the investigation’ is that SEEING. (It is not the “who am I?” investigation) It is the natural unadorned naked seeing – intelligence itself. In other words, there is no agenda in it – no me translating what is seen into something other than ‘what is’ – what is self-evident. The ‘seer’ is just another thought, so there is no substance of a ‘seer’ in naked seeing.
    If you drop thought for just a moment, it can be ascertained that there is nothing wrong with right now, if I don’t think about it. Now that should tell me that the trouble comes with thought. It is all thought based. It is the mind that resists with another thought, a concepts of “Who chooses to stop thought?”
    ‘Who’ is asking the question?
    Don’t waste time postulating this and that. Drop thought and SEE for yourself.
    These teachers who say that the investigation is not the way to go are clearly not understanding what is being pointed out. In seeing through what binds the mind – it is freed from its thought binding nature. At the very basis of what you are is naked awareness. Are you a thought? Or are you this Wakefulness?
    That wakefulness is the SEEING. It may ‘appear’ (for the mind) as a moment of investigating what is really going on. Why would anyone say that this is a bad thing or wrong? Only because they have an agenda: “My way is the only way to go”. Almost all gurus carry on in such a way.
    It is transparent nonsense. If they can’t see that, it must be because they are holding onto ‘yesterday’s insights’.
    ‘You’ no doubt have believed that ‘you’ have done all kinds of things throughout your life. Now when it comes to a simple direction that could actually turn everything around, the mind resists and plays with intellectualizing. I see this over and over, week after week. The ‘successful ones in life’ – the ones with a strong intellect always have trouble with this – the mind is too quick to jump in with another concept. It is all about ‘me’. At some point one tires of all that stuff and a sense of honesty arises. “What is really going on?” Without that (we can call it earnestness) the mind will just go on and on, running in circles. Frustration eventually brings it to a head. Don’t wait until your almost dead.
    Drop the thoughts for awhile and SEE. It is not some piddly thing that is being pointed out. No one is asking you for some huge fee or attend umpteen years of retreats or meetings – hand over ten percent of your wages etc. This is free advice. Take or leave it. There is no one here that will blink if you reject this advice. Yet every now and then one or two ‘out there’ resonate with what is being pointed out and the seeing through of old beliefs happens – and that feels good, when they send a clear message that it has been seen through.
    Many get caught in jealousy and that stuff is ten times more destructive in spiritual circles than in ordinary life. You only have to join a spiritual group to see that in action.
    There may be an innocence to your comments but in saying that being misled by Gurus is valid is just an absurd thing to say. It is intellectual nonsense.

  40. Posted by Bill Tys on 10.13.08 10:12 pm

    1) WHO can choose to ‘earnestly investigate the ‘I’?
    2) WHO chooses to stop a thought?

    These two questions posed by Jay H. (above) are very interesting.

    The answer to both questions of course is…it is the believed in ‘I’ that investigates and chooses…

    But as Gilbert says above, at the very basis of what you are is naked awareness. Are you that believed in thought? Are you that believed in ‘I’ that thinks the thought? Or are you this wakefulness? Investigate, look and see right now! That which you are is undeniable…

    The thoughts and the ‘I’ come and go…the thoughts label what is happening…the wakefulness always is…

    In reference again to the above questions, I recall Bob saying…take a thorn to extract a thorn and then throw both the thorns away.

  41. Posted by gilbert on 10.13.08 11:25 pm

    The answer above is incorrect and that needs to be addressed straight away. This is the very point that so many get caught on. They think that they have understood and that understanding is lopsided – the believed in ‘I’ retains its imagined supremacy.
    There is no entity anywhere that does anything at all. Never did and never will.
    There is NO duality in Non Duality. No exceptions – there cannot be an exception, no matter ‘who’s ego’ it is that keeps claiming some ground.
    The ‘me’ is an ephemeral appearance in the mind – a mere series of thoughts.
    If this ‘me’ is truly investigated then it is found to be nothing but a pattern, one that seemingly has some substance because a story is added to it – feelings follow suit… etc.
    The believed in ‘I’ cannot make the investigation nor can it choose anything. It may ‘appear’ to take a part in the investigation. There can ‘appear’ to be some willingness but it may well throw up its hands and turn away, if ‘the light of KNOWING’ reveals its true nature. Where are you truly SEEING from? Is it from an ‘I’? Or is it simply Seeing, naked and singular – undivided by the mind?
    There is only ONE intelligence. One Seeing. One Being. One Knowing. One presence.
    One without a second.
    It is the mind that divides that One, this open and unbound Presence into multiplicity.
    That image of self has no power whatsoever. This is the point that has been made over and over. The enjoyment of life will not disappear ‘when’ the me is exposed. Life may well flow with much greater ease without it. It will still appear, just like any other appearance – but it will have lost its hold over the mind. The so-called mind can then operate with ease. This is not a theory – it can only make sense in the direct and immediate experiencing of it. What the mind translates it into is just words etc.
    The word is NEVER the thing it refers to.
    What we call the investigation is nothing but SEEING. There is no ‘I’ in that seeing – there may appear to be one there but it is just an image. How can an image do anything? This may ‘appear’ to be a ruthless, non compassionate expression here. It is far more compassionate to remove the subtle obstacles of belief, than to let them roll on indefinitely. This ‘I know’ because that is what happened here – Bob did not let me go on believing in something (the me) that has no substance. In the appearance I can thank him whole heartedly – in Essence there is no need of ‘thanks’. There is NO separation. ‘No one’ to thank ‘another’.
    The word ‘I’ is not a problem if it is understood. I can say “I know this”, knowing full well that the ‘I’ is just a figure of speech.
    Note: The quote about the thorns was, I believe, originally from Ramana Maharshi.

  42. Posted by MARGO on 10.14.08 12:26 am

    Gilbert-I know that you don’t want to complicate the explanations and give the mind more fuel to speculate but the confusion of apparent choice (because sometimes it looks like I have control and things are going ”my” way) is for ”me” the biggest obstacle in de-constructing this ”me” character and completely letting go of any imaginary control.
    It seems that LIFE operates through the pattern of beliefs that the ” me ” establishes. The problem comes in when the BELIEFS are confused with the DOING-or manipulating to get the desire result. The “me” has no power to do anything but it’s beliefs are being manifested and experienced. Life will express action that results in success in the person that beliefs itself to be successful – but a person that believes in poverty and lack cannot force or manipulate or choose the right action that will lead to success. The very belief in ”me” is lack and limitation. So it appears that this ”me” sometimes has control and at other times it does not – but it is really the BELIEF that the Life is acting through producing the desire results. Could you please say something about that. I hope that I have made myself clear without to much complication. Thanks, Margo.

  43. Posted by gilbert on 10.14.08 12:48 am

    What needs to be understood clearly is this: All the mind does is translate the EXPERIENCING into words, concepts, symbols and images. Most ‘people’ take that to be their understanding. They will fight tooth and nail to protect that translation. They take it to be knowledge and even ‘self-knowledge’. Now ‘directly behind’ that translation of mind is the living essence of what you are. There is no ‘behind or in front’ as such. The translations of mind are like leaves floating on the flowing river. They appear to approach and pass by. In fixating on them, they ‘grow into a drama’. Whatever they ‘grow into’ they still remain as what they are – they have no substance – it is belief that makes them seem real – they all appear and disappear. Where are last years dramas? Now in this analogy you are the river – the water. The river appears to move, to flow. What you are is absolutely stationary and yet everywhere (in and as the river).
    This ‘water’, this knowing presence has never deviated from this ‘present moment’ irrespective of the activities that take place in or on it.
    The crux of the matter is this: Empty the mind. Cease from thought. SEE that what you are is not a word, nor are you a concept – and you cannot be an image.
    Self-image is just content of mind. Now, the mind is clear and empty and ‘when’ thought returns (with a thought or the ‘story of me’) there must be a SEEING of it as an appearance. An appearance ON that which was there BEFORE the thought came. If this is truly seen clearly to be true – how can you take that appearing thought to be realty? It would seem that many need to taste this thoughtless state of mind over and over, before it ‘sinks in’. It is a ‘recognition’ that takes place – we recognize what we have always known (behind the thought flow) – yet seemingly we have forgotten it – because we fixate on thoughts and never SEE them for what they are. We must understand the mind and thought – otherwise they will dominate us, enslave us into ‘the bondage of self’. That re-tasting of the recognition is how it ‘appears’ to happen for many.
    Yet the SEEING has always been present.
    So that is why I say: Be the seeing and nothing other than that.
    All of your questions have a reference point to them. Take a close look at what that ‘reference point’ is. Everything is measured from that ‘point’. Investigate (SEE) that ‘point’ and it will be found to be nothing but naked presence appearing as a ‘point’. The point will dissolve into THIS presence – into naked seeing.
    That direct and immediate experiencing IS the freedom from the IDEA of self – some call it ‘self-liberation’. It gets turned around by those who miss-understand and the usual way it is understood is that ‘a self’ gets liberated via some practice or method.
    There is NO success and NO failure. Drop thought and rest in naked presence.
    See that it is unconditioned – no future, no past – just THIS as it is.
    Find the spark of LIFE in yourself and stay with THAT. Living from THAT it will be seen that there never was anyone who lived a life.
    ‘The bondage of self’ is just a bunch of ideas that are believed in – and the same applies to the sense of ‘separation’ – it is a concept.
    It falls apart if we truly take a close look.
    All our stories rely on ‘time’. The mind is time. You are NOT the mind. Take a look at the present evidence right here, right now. Is there a problem if you do not go off thinking about one? There is a clear space of knowing right here. It is empty. Why fill it with stories? There is NO answer in the mind. What you seek you already are – and you won’t find it in the mind. You ARE that – with or without a thought.

  44. Posted by MARGO on 10.14.08 1:27 am

    Gilbert,you said-“What needs to be understood clearly is this: All the mind does is translate the EXPERIENCING into words, concepts, symbols and images.So the experiencing happens before the mind comes in and translates? Experiencing of what-what is there before the mind’s interpretations-before words,concepts symbols and images?

  45. Posted by MARK01 on 10.14.08 1:50 am

    BT: “The concept of “me” (which is the appearance…with no substance) popping up all over the place, IS the intelligence”

    GS: “Good points by the way”

    Yes, I guess that’s funny in consensus reality.
    The Truth is having a belly laugh too :-)

  46. Posted by Jay H. on 10.14.08 2:29 am

    Gilbert, thanks for the response. The sticking point remains. You said “These teachers who say that the investigation is not the way to go are clearly not understanding what is being pointed out. In seeing through what binds the mind – it is freed from its thought binding nature.” and in the next breath “‘You’ no doubt have believed that ‘you’ have done all kinds of things throughout your life. Now when it comes to a simple direction that could actually turn everything around, the mind resists and plays with intellectualizing” How can ‘I’ do this investigation? How can the ‘I’ stop a thought? After all, they aren’t ‘my’ thoughts, they are just thoughts appearing along with everything else, right?

    The ‘I’ over here typing this reply cannot choose to either ‘play with intellectualizing’ or indeed choose to have an opinion on what is ‘absurd’ or not. Isn’t it the case that suffering comes from the belief in thought? Whether thought is about Guru’s, teachers or Mars Bars, and the very basis of your ‘prescription’ to investigate and ‘stop the mind’ implies that there is a seperate entity here who can choose to believe this or investigate that. This smacks of trying to end thought with a thought, and over here there is the experience of not being in control of my thoughts.

    In this immediate SEEING right here, there MAY be thoughts about the economy, or mince pies or investigating the ‘I’ . It SEEMS as though they just float through in awareness which INCLUDES everything else that is happening spontaneoulsy. If there is no-one, and no-doer who can have thoughts about this or that, then ‘WHO’ stops intellectualising and investigates? Who CHOOSES the quality and content of their thoughts? ‘I’ certainly do not, everyone knows this, they just arise, dance and then fade but ‘I’ don’t choose them!. So to lean towards any kind of teaching or investigation or indeed any point of view about what is appropriate or not implies duality. And this is where ‘I’ come unstuck. It seems a complete paradox.

    In this moment, the ‘I’ is just a thought. Not ‘MY’ thought, just a thought. And then the belief in that ‘I’ thought is added onto with things like ‘I’ need to investigate to see clearly, I need a bigger car or a more attractive wife, whatever. SEEING already is. Full Stop. So in that, isn’t EVERYTHING already it?

  47. Posted by Mark Ellis on 10.14.08 3:33 am

    Someone recently shared with me, as I started to sound like the previous comment to just STOP intelectualizing and Bake in this. It was told to me that I was being like a dog chasing its tail So Much that it got stuck in its own arse. Bob’s pointing here is Crystal Clear when I stop “just listening” and “HEAR” what is being pointed at. Someone also said that in the gap between what “should be” and what IS, suffering arises. It seems that for the seeker, what is needed most of the time is to exhaust all methods, forms and words until in sheer frustration (at least here), everything is dropped and…., Wow… what remains?
    Thank you All,
    Mark

  48. Posted by Jay H. on 10.14.08 4:11 am

    Thanks Mark for that post. There is indeed ‘sheer frustration’ happening over here and also a recognition of intellectualising this way too much, again it begs the same question that if there’s no doer, than how can one choose to STOP intellectualising and bake in this? The intellectualising and the thoughts are one and the same so to say ‘I’ can do this rather than that implies a choice, a doer.

    This isn’t an attempt to play with words, it’s a real sticking point.

    If we could all stop conceptualising, intellectualising and thinking, wouldn’t ‘we’ have done it already?

  49. Posted by Jérôme on 10.14.08 4:49 am

    Hi Jay,
    Exactly, if you were in control you would have done that already!…if you are repeated all the time to end the search, why not end it right now?!

  50. Posted by MARGO on 10.14.08 5:46 am

    I think this is appropriate for what we are talking about, Annette Nibley in “You are Not a Pattern”.
    When you desire something, what is doing the desiring is a PATTERN. When the desire is fulfilled, or unfulfilled, the pattern changes. Next time, the pattern has a new desire, based on whether the last desire was fulfilled or unfulfilled.
    The pattern cannot choose.
    The next desire arises from what came before. This is the entire life of a person. The “person” is a pattern.
    Is there a part of you that is not that pattern? Look now. Does that part desire anything? Does it contain anything? Is it missing anything?

  51. Posted by Roy Simms on 10.14.08 5:49 am

    When Chang Ching, after twenty years of meditation, happened to lift the curtain and see the outside world, he lost all his previous understanding of Zen, and cried: “How mistaken I was! How mistaken I was! Raise the screen and see the world.”

  52. Posted by tomvds on 10.14.08 5:51 am

    Look now. Where do you find a pattern?

  53. Posted by MARGO on 10.14.08 6:08 am

    It seems that this kind of logic and questioning leads only to frustration and not to understanding.

  54. Posted by tomvds on 10.14.08 6:41 am

    “To study the Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things of the universe. To be enlightened by all things of the universe is to cast off the body and mind of the self as well as those of others. Even the traces of enlightenment are wiped out, and life with traceless enlightenment goes on forever and ever.” – Dogen Zenji

    Leave patterns at the door. ‘I AM’ which is a translation of that non-conceptual Awareness is that door.

    “But take that piece of iron out of the fire and It can’t do any of those things” -Bob Adamson

  55. Posted by Ralph on 10.14.08 10:49 am

    Hi Jay,

    I understand your frustration and stuckness.

    Is it possible that the frustration and stuckness is there because you are still looking for the answer in the mind and trying to get it even though you know there is nothing to get and that the answer is not in the mind ?

    See, there is nothing in it for you. Who you think you are can never get this.
    In a way, when frustration and stuckness arises, it is just a reminder that you are back in the mind trying to GET this ‘ no thingness’ .

    Get the joke ? You are ‘nobody’ thinking you are ‘somebody’ who wants to be ‘nobody’. In truth, you already are.

  56. Posted by gilbert on 10.14.08 11:10 am

    Margo. Because it has always been here – and because we have no names for it we miss it. Some words ‘point towards it’ but that is a figure of speech. Naked presence-awareness. The mind burdened by fixating thoughts dulls the intelligence.
    Taste what is there ‘behind’ the curtain of concepts, thoughts and images.
    What you truly are is always there (HERE). All we can use are concepts, symbols and images.
    The various stages of identification are – a member of the audience in a movie theater lost in the movie, merging with the images on the screen. Simply being the awareness, watching the movie. Being the projectionist, its just a job. Being the simple observer of the celluloid passing the shining light of the projector. Being the light.
    Being the simple presence-awareness, being what you are.
    You are not a limited pattern, a body nor a mind.
    You ARE the Infinite Potentiality. THAT is the Knowing Presence.
    Where is the limitation? Is it not the concepts that are believe in?
    Taking yourself to be a limited creature and as a fixated character struggling in vain is ‘the story of ‘Me’.
    Like a ‘prisoner’ who has imagined a prison – fist clenching the bars, looking jealously out at the ‘free world’ imagining freedom. The bars of this prison are made of concepts. First you must SEE what you are not – then you know what you are. Where are you seeing from? Everything is an appearance, even the ‘witness’.
    Let it all drop into empty space. Be the SEEING and nothing other than that.

  57. Posted by gilbert on 10.14.08 11:25 am

    Jay. The mind says “How?” Endless conceptualizing. If someone shouts at you to “Shut up” doesn’t the mind stop? In being the intelligence that you are the intention stops thought. We can go on an on in the mind trying to describe it all but that is only more conceptualizing and it is counter to the point being indicated. What you truly are CAN stop thought. Just do it. Don’t run away with concepts about ‘who’ is going to do it. That is madness. There seems to be a lot of it about. My best advice is to simply listen to the two programs on Bob’s Interview, listen to them over and over – it will sink in – natural contemplation will happen and you will SEE the truth of what Bob is pointing out for yourself. There is no need to claim anything as Knowledge nor any claim of being a ‘knower’. Intelligence dawns and shines through the mind, illuminating everything just AS IT IS.

  58. Posted by linda on 10.14.08 12:00 pm

    A seed falls on the ground, roots develop, a sprout appears, a stalk appears, one leaf then another grow onto the stalk, it rains, a chicken fertilises the earth, the sun shines, the sun disappears, the sun shines, the sun disappears.

    A seed says to itself, look what I did, I have grown roots, now I am going to grow a stalk, leaves and make a beautiful flower. When the sun shines tomorrow, I will open my petals and show the world how beautiful I am.

    It was all just nature patterning, the flower imagined it was a self, that it did these things, how deluded is that?

  59. Posted by gilbert on 10.14.08 12:26 pm

    I have been around this Non Duality ‘thing’ for 8 years. I read about it for 4 years prior to that. I can say with an absolute conviction that these two programs (one naturally flowing interview split into two parts) is the best introduction I have come across. It contains everything you need to absorb. Bob expresses every basic point that ‘we need’ to recognize. The ‘seeker’ disappeared ‘here’ many years ago, simply because the intelligence that I am recognized what Bob was indicating (to me). When you see through ‘the mind’ you don’t become a member of some elite group. You don’t have to become a guru. You may or may not play a role in spreading the message. One thing that I have noticed is the resistance to ‘hearing’ the message is prevalent ‘in seekers’. ‘People’ appear to just want to add to their spiritual beliefs. Letting go of them is necessary but it seems few are willing to go beyond them. If you really listen to what Bob is saying, then it will dawn on you, that you were never bound by anything at all. No one can make you see this. It must arise naturally within your own being. How that spark is ignited is a mystery and it appears that it is different in each case. Do yourself a favor – Listen to the two programs as often as you can. A profound gratitude may arise as ‘the old way of seeing things’ and the beliefs fall away.

  60. Posted by Jay H. on 10.14.08 3:06 pm

    Ralph and Gilbert thank you both for your comments, something appears to be responding to this dialog…

    The very idea that ‘I’ could understand this IS the suffering ‘I’ want to escape, as it already just appears spontaneously without coming from a separate ‘Me’. And this fuels the search even more, I can see this now. Doesn’t the bible say something along these lines about eating from the tree of knowledge?

    So thoughts about ‘being no-one’ and ‘needing to understand this’ are already liberated and not ‘mine’ and not who I am. These thoughts are so subtle, so damn clever, but still perfectly appropriate as they are quite simply just appearing, along with sights, smells, sounds and feelings in the body.

    The lingering belief (a thought) that an ‘I’ (another thought) can do something to see this is what perpetuates the search, and is that which seemingly prevents a clear seeing of this. All of this implies some future time when maybe ‘I’ will see this, but hang on, I’m not only ALREADY SEEING right now, I’m also not ‘doing’ those thoughts, they aren’t ‘mine’ so to speak, not what I am. And when in the future will the ‘I’ see this? Utter Madness!

    There is seeing right now! The seeing is already just happening and the mind convinces me that I need to do something in order to see this! Haha! I’m ALWAYS seeing this! And then the thought arises out of nowhere that there is something more than this. If this is believed or not, that is also what appears to be happening, and there’s no doer here choosing any of this!

    This seeing already is, and cannot be added to. If anything, the ‘I’ or thought has actually ADDED to this with belief about there being something more!

    Words and concepts spinning on forever trying to ‘get it’…….and this seeing, this hearing, this energy is ALWAYS already the case despite what appears, or not. As Bob says “You are already what you seek”

    This is great stuff, thank you.

  61. Posted by gilbert on 10.14.08 10:37 pm

    Yes, the ‘I’ thought is the primary thought. What gets added to it is secondary thoughts and this is a vehicle for ‘entering’ into the duality of ‘things’. All things appear as separate things yet they are ALL the One thing – not even a thing – No thing. Not even One, because ‘one’ implies two, three, etc.
    It remains indescribable. Non conceptual awareness is the ground upon which all concepts appear and disappear. This is naturally all appearing in the SEEING. It is in fact ‘all-seeing’ – ‘all-knowing’. There is no separation. You are THAT.
    All insights are nothing but SEEING. There is no ‘seer’ as such. The mind labels the seeing and attributes the qualities of being a ‘seer’. Once this is known as an appearance in the SEEING, then the mind made boundaries collapse, or appear to collapse – it dawns (on you without a form called ‘you’) that they never were in the first instant and that THIS is the first instant – the ONLY instant.
    What more can be said? Endless words can never bring about the SEEING – it already is happening.

  62. Posted by Ralph on 10.15.08 5:21 am

    Worth saying again:

    The “I” is the primary thought. What gets added to it is secondary thoughts and this is a vehicle for ‘entering’ into the duality of ‘things’.
    All insights are nothing but SEEING. There is no ’seer’ as such. The mind labels the seeing and attributes the qualities of being a ’seer’.

    When this is wholeheartly and completely understood, then the game is over !
    The ‘seer’ is replaced by the ‘seeing’.

  63. Posted by tomvds on 10.15.08 8:26 am

    “I am neither conscious nor unconscious. I am beyond the mind and its various states and conditions….A person is a set pattern of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there is no pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear – how can there be a pattern?”- Quote from Nisargadatta

  64. Posted by gilbert on 10.15.08 9:07 am

    The ‘seer’, which is only a thought dissolves back into the SEEING, from where it arose.
    The ‘seer’ is not replaced by seeing. That is a dualistic way of expressing it.
    The ‘seer’ comes and goes. Seeing remains.

  65. Posted by g. hariharan on 10.22.08 11:00 pm

    Can someone please post a transcript of both parts of Bob’s interview? I have difficulty in following the conversation perhaps due to my (old?) age, or due to background noise.

  66. Posted by gilbert on 10.22.08 11:55 pm

    A booklet of the interview (both parts) will be available fairly soon from either Bob’s website or this website. It is a most remarkable interview and is bound to make an excellent document on its own.
    It will be on offer for a reasonable price and will be posted out to those who order it.
    Transcripts of some of the other earlier programs are available on this site. Every effort was taken to make the program as clear as possible. Accents are often a problem.
    We may consider publishing part of the transcription in the near future with the programs.
    Bare in mind this Podcast is a free service and two people at present give their time to producing it – without any reimbursement for their time or talent. We did not want to make it a pay for download because it excludes many who don’t know how to do it and those who do not wish to pay. I agree that it will make a difference for some to be able to read and listen. Warm regards – Gilbert – Sound Editor and Sound Production.

  67. Posted by dorothy hoffman on 12.08.08 11:51 am

    Can someone please tell me what is that beautiful piece of music playing at 25:20 in the podcast? Is it Eric Satie…if so, what is the name of the track?? Many Thanks

  68. Posted by gilbert on 12.09.08 7:43 am

    The piece is not Satie but it was selected because of its similar nature to Satie. It is a piece by A. Brahem. I recommend his CD’s – the link is on the program page. I will have to look up which track it is and get back to you.

  69. Posted by dorothy hoffman on 12.11.08 7:40 am

    Thanks a lot, Gilbert…i found it; it’s called Halfaouine

  70. Posted by Clyde Barrow on 06.29.09 1:54 pm

    The music is beautiful. But highly distracting. Bob’s Australian accent can be a bit difficult at times. Also, the sound quality is a bit ‘blurred’ in places. The music makes the hearing more difficult. There were places where I could not understand what he was saying–even after several ‘rewinds.’ This is an instance where ‘less is more.’

  71. Posted by jenne on 02.07.10 1:52 am

    <3 <3 <3 to UGC!

  72. Posted by jenne on 02.07.10 1:53 am

    why don’t u just be thankful you can listen to this for free? ;)