18. Interview with Bob Adamson – part 2 ******
Please listen to Part one before this program. This program is part two of a remarkable interview with ‘Sailor Bob’ Adamson.
Even for those who are very familiar with Bob’s so-called ‘teaching’ it will most certainly touch them. We advise you to listen to it a few times. There are many salient points that Bob expresses and each one has a potency that cuts through even the concept of there being a teaching. It is all about right here, right now. Seeing-knowing – this presence that you are.
The ripples from these two programs are already spreading far and wide. The interview contains so many pointers delivered in a remarkably relaxed way. Let it sink in.
A BOOKLET of the transcript (of both programs) is available to post out – visit shiningthroughthemind.net to get the details or email Gilbert for them.
Some beautiful music from Erik Satie and Anouar Brahem
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If any vestiges of doubt or an assumed “flip-flop” still seems to shake you from this Presence that you are in truth, give these two talks with ‘Sailor’ Bob a thorough pondering. As noted do listen to #1 (Podcast 17) FIRST. Much gratitude to Bob, Gilbert and Areti for making these utterly simple and profound pointers from the One appearing as Bob available to the world! Big Love to Y’all!
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It’s ALL good, thanks for your efforts, Tazzy.
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Thank You Bob, UGC, Areti, Gilbert and all involved in making this abstract idea of non-duality little bit more real and personal. Listening to Bob and Areti conversation, and Gilbert answering the e-mail questions makes the whole impossibly abstract idea more here and now, more digestible and approachable-more real. Not like reading a book, when you constantly question if it is somebody’s imagination, misconception or the truth. In my case many doubts have been eliminated along with a lot of conflicting information about this subject. I focus my energy only on feeling and seeing the presence and not trying to decide what is true and what is false. The personal aspect of this side makes the biggest impact on de-constructing the ”ME” story and seeing it for what it is.
I have flashes of clarity when I ” see ” the character I play, and then back to trying to make the character understand all this, it is madness. I like your analogy Gilbert – the member of audience in movie theater completely lost in the movie, merging with the images on the screen (identifying with the character). I see the madness of trying to “enlighten” the character on the screen. How can the projection ever understand this!
Thanks for making it clear and eliminating years of accumulated confusion.
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Thank You for this wonderful program with all these wonderful “teachers”. I am listening to the shows from Sweden – “Rest as awareness for short moments repeated many times until it becomes automatic” – Rest is the best…
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Many things are said – each saying can be pulled apart. What we are pointing out is that there is NO BECOMING. You are ALREADY what you seek. Wakefulness is NEVER a ‘becoming automatic’ or a mechanical thing. Reality is here now. Always here now.
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Bob, you are killing me here !
You are killing the ‘me’ that I am still ‘clinging’ to.
Thank you, great podcast.
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Yes there is no becoming, it just is! You are that in which all thoughts, feelings, sensations and situations appear. You can call them points of view. – And the all encompassing view is awareness. Just rest as that for short moments many times until there is no doubt. Spontaneous appearance arises in that here and now. Always has, always will, thank god!
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Thank Who?
Funny how the simplicity of this (Bob’s message) surpasses understanding….
Funny how hearing it kinda depends on the “Ear” and how the “Ear” seems to change in its capacity to receive.
Thanx to all at U.G.C. who continue to put these excellent pointers out.
The dialogues that follow are very entertaining and informative as well.
Peace In,
Mark
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Fabulous. These 2 interviews say It all…so just enjoy this beautiful life with all its ups and downs. I’ve read Bankei as Bob mentions him several times. He would be very proud of Bob. They both explain It in a clear and simple way. Maybe Bob is the latest reincarnation of Bankei?! Ha ha, only joking! Thanks again to all for these pointers which are like dewdrops sparkling in the early morning sun.
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Yes it is simple!
And yet getting familiar with awareness might be complicated in the ideas (points of view) that there is anyone doing anything. Nobody has ever done anything. So if “anyone” is ever going to “do” anything, the tip is to rest naturally for short moments repeated many times… The only thing “you” have to do is to decide how you want to spend the next moment.
Love
Ulrik
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It is simple, so don’t make in complicated. It is not about getting familiar with awareness or the ideas. There is nothing more obvious than awareness – even though it is not a ‘thing’ – it is the knowing, without which nothing would be known at all.
Isn’t it simply recognizing what is being pointed out?
By thinking ‘I am someone’ the mind sets itself up for ‘the next moment’ of life for that ‘someone’ and in that ‘setting up’ the ‘ever-present self-evident’ is missed through inadvertence.
See that ‘there is no one doing anything’. Know it. There is no ‘If anyone is ever going to do anything’. That notion itself is just a concept in the restless mind. Drop it.
The natural state is – it is not a becoming brought about by anyone, not by any ‘doing’ whatsoever – nor by any concept of ‘resting’ – promoted or held onto by anyone.
Do not underestimate what Bob is expressing in these two programs. Let it sink in beyond the mind. Don’t imagine that you are going to get something. It is the resonance beyond thought that stirs. That is unmistakable – it is NOT a concept. All the conceptualizing in all the world ain’t going to do it for you. The answer is not in the mind. Concepts will continue to arise but the concept is not IT.
As Bob points out in the program – Seekers are not finders.
You are already what you seek. Stop ignoring what is naturally present.
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“Stop ignoring what is naturally present.”
And what’s also equally present in deep sleep.
So, what is present in deep sleep ? THAT what’s present now.
What is your experience of deep sleep ? What do you remember of deep sleep?
It is so utterly NO-THING – IT didn’t leave a trace ! Nothing recognized itself then. Nothing can be said about THAT. So, Re-cognize THAT positively in the waking state !
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Much simpler to recognize that you are not asleep. As Bob says in the program: “If you are not asleep, then you must be awake.” – If the mind goes looking for some mysterious state, imagination can so easily step in.
We need to see that it is not about an interpretation of what Bob is pointing out. The mind may put its own labels on it all but they usually don’t help much. Bob has been talking about this stuff for over 30 years. So it is, that the expression has been naturally stripped down to the essentials. He does not add anything for the mind to run off with. This is one of the reasons it seems ‘hard to get’. We expect to ‘get something’. By constantly comparing the message with one’s personal experience and history, the essential pointing is missed. This natural wakefulness is beyond description.
Some call it enlightenment, which just makes it into some glorified ‘thing’ to attain in the future. What is constantly being pointed out is that the natural ‘state’ is right here, right now. It is not to be found in the mind. The concept of ‘me’ appeared on that natural state. The ‘me’ is not the natural state. We call it a state even though it is not a state.
All states come and go – the natural state is ever present.
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asleep/awake: what comes and goes is not IT
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Such things are not said in the sleep state.
It is this knowing presence which is beyond time, hence it can never come or go.
No concept or words can truly label it and all words can only appear on it – transient and fleeting. The waking state and the sleep state are NOT the natural wakefulness. They are both dreams. ‘Understanding’ is not a dream. ‘Understanding’ is not a concept. ‘Understanding’ is another word for ‘wakefulness’ – there is nothing outside of it.
There is no one in the waking state and no one in the sleep state.
The island of dreams is a mist upon the ocean of being. Every word uttered by ‘anyone at all’ springs forth from this single source – spontaneous being. No one can go beyond that. All knowledge is merely an appearance in that knowing – the only value any knowledge has is in the knowing, not the knowledge.
The appearance is not reality.
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Simple, straightforward and extremely direct pointers, thanks to everyone involved in making this program available. And the music! What wonderful choices, it seems to flow perfectly with what is being said. Could anyone please help me identify the Anouar Brahem track played in this interview? (Gilbert says: The CD is called Le Voyage de Sahar and the track is called “Vague – E la Nava Va”) – Thank you Gilbert. – J.H.
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But there seems to be an ‘individual will’ present, which is able to direct attention. It can focus awareness on acquired mind, or full stop.
There is something that chooses (i.e., focuses awareness), completely independent of the fact that a story created in mind is believed in or not.
This ability gives rise to a sense of separation. One can endlessly say “there is no me,” but it still doesn’t address this core individual awareness.
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Non Duality means One without a second.
Individual Will? Individual means undivided. Will means ‘power’. ‘One Omnipotence’ actualizing right now, AS Everything.
It is not divided into small and big, right or wrong. There is nothing outside of it.
Who or what is going to address this postulation, this question, about the core individual awareness?
If it is not you, then who? Is the word of another more important to you than your own naked seeing and knowing? Or maybe you know better than any ‘other’? – This is just exploration of the belief.
‘Focus’ and ‘periphery vision’ are present. – Everything appears in the seeing.
Key points: The focus is on form. Seeing is formless. Drop the focus on form and drop the naming of everything – and the formlessness reveals itself.
What is it that contracts into a tight form? Is it not the idea of ‘me’?
It all appears and disappears in the formless nature of simple presence.
Individual and universal awareness are the same – One without a second.
‘Who’ is it that cannot accept that? The ‘core issue’ is the believed in ‘me’. Where do you have to go to find this core issue? – and isn’t is clearly obvious that it has no substance of independence of its own? Isn’t it merely concepts appearing? SEE them as such – for what they are.
The word ‘Individual’ means undivided.
Others may answer this question (or statement) of yours with a lengthy story. Words need to be used….AND in a focused way, it would seem. We imagine causes that are not there – we attribute the ‘me’ with powers it could never have – then we wonder why we are confused or don’t understand. What is it that clings to individuality apart from the idea of being a separate individual?
Intelligence is ‘doing’ it all. You can’t get behind ‘the stage’ to see ‘who’ focuses the attention. It all happens spontaneously – even the belief in separation. What attention does this believed in individual deserve from Universal Awareness? A confronting question. ‘Self-importance’ is one of the ‘reasons’ why the natural intuition does not flourish.
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Beautiful podcast.
What more could ONE need?
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Indeed.
What Bob points to very clearly demonstrates ‘something’ that one can verify for oneself. Some other teachers talk about things from how they see it now ‘after’ some ‘event’. Which leaves one in a state of faith if one is to believe what they are saying. It is little more than ‘advertising’. Bob goes to the basics and explains many sides to the equation. He is thorough to the ‘enth degree and it can even be called logical (2 and 2 = 4).
How anyone could argue over any of the points he makes seems irrational. As we all know, not everyone is open to this pointing.
In my case ‘faith’ was never enough. I did not want to worship anyone or anything. Memory tells me that there was a deep desire to KNOW that kept arising and ‘eventually’ enough of what had been covering the natural knowing was eliminated simply by the investigation of those old beliefs. Once that crust is broken, the sun ‘starts’ (appears to start) to shine with unrelenting light. The fact is that it is already shining through ‘you’ as the first principle of being-knowing-presence-awareness. It is silent, wordless and prior to the mind. No words can ever describe it adequately – yet there is a knowing there – simply stop ignoring it. That is how I see it, other use other words. It doesn’t matter what words they are, as long as one recognizes that this ‘knowing’ is here now, irrespective of what the mind is ‘doing’.
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Yes and perhaps the investigation of old beliefs, old habits must be passed through and seen for what they truly are (just thoughts believed). Ignoring or denying them keeps them alive and reappearing from time to time. Maybe thats why some good teachers such as Adyashanti, Leonard Jacobson, Byron Katie have retreats to deal and help with this type of investigation head on.
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Oh dear. That name has appeared. It sends a shudder through my veins.
And perhaps these compassionate ‘Good’ teachers of yours only charge a bare minimum fee to cover the costs of such retreats. It would not seem fair if they took advantage of ‘people’ and charged extraordinary prices for ‘Time bond methods’ that seem for all the world to not work. Anyone I have ever met who has attended these classes or retreats you speak of are obviously still seeking and masking that seeking with self-calming internal dialog. Mantras like ‘I am resting in the awareness’ demonstrate how ‘sheep like’ seekers are. I have met hundreds of people who have spent a small fortune on such retreats. I have never met or even heard of a single one who was freed from it all, apart from the one’s who tired of it or just ceased to be able to pay.
Let’s face it – it is ‘good business’ to keep people on the path, seeking, seeking and forever promising them deliverance.
I know that there is a lot of belief, out there, in such teachers and many of their ad-hoc ‘followers’ will not like anything said (apparently) against them. The simple fact is that it is all dualism.
The so-called revelation of enlightenment is that everything is ONE. It is not a ONE-ness that COMES about after some practice or use of some method OR after attending some expensive retreat. It is ONE right NOW. It is not a theory – it is a fact – beyond all comprehension. Whether you know it or not – You are THAT one without a second. No matter what you do or don’t do – you are THAT.
Recognizing this can only ever happen in this ‘first and only instant’.
All these ‘seeker activities’ are a movement away from this instant of SEEING and away from the simple recognition that there is no one in bondage. It is freely available to SEE this.
SEEING through beliefs is far too simple and instantaneous. You don’t have to line up to pay someone before you can SEE this truth.
It can never be turned into a practice and certainly not into a prolonged business operation.
Who do you pay to SEE, who do you pay to HEAR or KNOW? What method do you need to apply in order that this spontaneous life should appear? It is here already – stop ignoring it. Do you have to pay someone in order that you can stop ignoring it? There is no coin in the slot parking meter attached to BEING.
It is ALL happening spontaneously WITHOUT any method or practice. In one instant you can SEE that there is no conditioning and that you are not bound. The very notion that there is someone bound and who needs help from these ‘good teachers’ is nothing but bondage – as is their encouragement of seekers to ‘do’ these retreats and the practices. There is no need for any seduction of the seeker – it just requires a simple ‘pointing’.
A young bird ‘learns’ to fly very quickly – it does not need to pay a fee to the shire council first or do any course on flying. What is being pointed out is something so natural, we have overlooked it.
It is not about social networking, a new life style or making a guru rich. Doing retreats only tightens the binding of the seeker. Cut it away.
To be controversial I would add that I would not even give such teachers the bread crumbs off my table. What they teach is bondage, bondage dressed up as a ticket to freedom. It is a ticket you have to buy again and again and the destination remains up ahead in ‘TIME’. They know it and they let you pay over and over. And what compassionate smiles they all have.
(Disclaimer – these ‘opinions’ are mine – they do not reflect the opinions of the UGC.)
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But in the appearance of a characters play aren’t these ‘Teachers’ who charge fortunes to tell you how to ‘rest in the awareness’ also part of this wonderful happening and so are as appropriate as anything else?
It seems to me that by promoting ‘this way’ rather than ‘that way’ implies even more duality. So if it ‘appears’ that these so called ‘teachers’ are exploiting sheep-like followers, then isn’t that EXACTLY already the perfect expression of Oneness?
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Indeed. One Essence expressing and appearing as everything. Who has a problem? No one. If that is your understanding then fine. Is there seeking still going on there?
Writing it all off with some learned paraphrase does not cut the cheese. It is not about convincing oneself that all is ONE. Making excuses for the teachers of practices (that don’t work) isn’t going to bring any new insight.
There is NO WAY- neither this way not that way. You ARE present and aware right NOW. There is no PATH or WAY that needs to be trodden to arrive ‘somewhere else’ – as Nisargadatta says: “All paths lead to unreality”.
There is an unshakable and unmistakable KNOWING here that all ‘time bound actions’ including spiritual retreats are nonsense – they don’t work – They just support the belief in a ‘someone’ who ‘expects’ to gain ‘something’.
It is simply conceptualizing ‘other than what is’ – and that conceptualizing is the ignoring of what already IS.
The point is that the seeking and the psychological suffering of a ‘me’ is completely unnecessary. The one who KNOWS the short cut does NOT send the ‘seeker’ the LONG WAY HOME. He or she does not bleed the seekers of their finances in exchange for pipe dreams of deliverance. There are NO levels of attainment. What you SEEK you already ARE. Simply watch how the mind ‘reacts’ to such statements. The bondage of belief will rise up. SEE it for what it is. The mechanics are there to observe. No one else can SEE it for you. You don’t have to pay anyone before this SEEING can happen. It IS happening NOW. It is NOT about building an Empire on the backs of poor seekers.
Enlightenment is not a personal acquisition – it is the very nature of ALL EXISTENCE.
Pay them if you want – but I can assure you that in the moment of SEEING what is true the whole charade of ‘teacher-pupil’ is seen to be a dualistic appearance in this SEEING, which is non-dual.
It is all about direct pointing. It still appears that the one who takes delivery of the direct pointing is rare. Even so, the pointing happens – even though a million do not recognize it – even though ten million complain about this and that – the pointing is happening relentlessly. It is the nature of what is. Seeking is a dream. This advise is totally free. You can send me a check if you like – but there is no one here building an expensive spiritual image that needs constant feeding.
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Gilbert, who gives a shit! – how they conduct their business? I am not interested at all in the teacher but listen to the message instead. If it resonates, I stay with it until it doesn’t. I, personally, have not attended any retreats by these teachers but I can see how it can help those who appear to be stuck . These teachers do not teach bondage, they are interested in setting you free and yes, they are business people as well. The catch is ‘can you tell an authentic teacher from a fake one?’. If you measure it only by how much money they charge you, then you are deluded. There are con artists in every business including spirituality. This whole game (life) we are playing is a ‘con ‘ but very few see that.
If Bob Adamson decides tomorrow to start charging big bucks for his talks or decides to have retreats, does that mean that what he was saying all along is not valid anymore?
So, come on Gilbert. enough already – if the message resonates, stay with it until it doesn’t, regardless who the ‘messenger’ is.
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Ooh. Touching some buttons are we? Who gives a shit? Well you certainly seem to have a strong opinion. All I am saying is valid. They DO teach bondage, even if only by default – however disguised it may appear to be – it is bondage of self – the feeding of an illusion of ‘a self’ that does not exist. Any energy that goes into that belief in being a ‘person’, a ‘seeker’ is bondage – there are no ‘two ways’ about it. It must be cast aside not promoted and that promotion can be very subtle. If these comments ’cause’ a closer look to happen, a closer look at what has been erroneously ‘believed in’, well and good. It is GOOD. So, you have not attended these retreats and yet you promote them here on a site that clearly states that there is NO practice and no need to do anything, least of all some retreats. I find these wishy washy opinions and willy-nilly statements that many make to be indicative of a confused mind. You say stay with what resonates – I totally agree – then please take you own advice. Don’t get all caught up in a few words. There may be some benefit here for someone – and it is in my experience that in shaking up the sediment of ‘old belief patterns’ something fresh may reveal itself. ‘California Dreaming’ is very popular but you won’t find me promoting any of it. I knew that some sparks would fly. Frankly speaking the books of these teachers are only good for starting a fire. Looks like I have already got it burning. Throw another voluminous book of the fire and let’s start dancing around its glow. Who knows we might attract some attention from some miserable followers of these unfortunate teachers of methods and practice (that don’t work). They can testify that it does not work – because they are still seeking. It may be of interest to note that some years ago I went out of my way to point out the errors of one of these teachers and low and behold, he changed his story. I heard on the grapevine that people were regularly arguing in cafe’s in Santa Cruz (There are over a hundred Non-Duality Teachers there) about these things that I had written on my website about the 5 and 10 year deliverance spiel. Very amusing for me, since I am just an ordinary guy in Australia. I am not surrounded by seekers nor do I know many people who even know what non duality is.
After telling people the old 5 and 10 year deliverance spiel for umpteen years he suddenly dropped it – and he started sounding a lot like what Bob says. Quite a few teachers actually have started to imitate what Bob has been saying for over 30 years. But somehow it just doesn’t come across all that cleanly with most of them. A conman is a conman. A Wise man can pretend to be a fool…but a fool……he can only pretend to be a guru. And these chaps are extremely pretentious.
I am not the button pusher – but I do a pretty good job, don’t you think? Come on – have a laugh. There is nothing more miserable than a serious spiritual persona.
Do yourself a favor – listen to Bob’s interview again.
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Psst! Gilbert…. there are other good teachers out there besides Bob.
Do yourself a favor – listen to some of them too
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I don’t need to listen to anyone – not even Bob. Bob already pointed me to the ONLY fact that can’t be negated and it was recognized. That may all seem like a mystery to you right now but all the pointing is to that basic fact of immediate knowing. All the talk in all the world never touches that – it is neither positive nor negative – it is simply knowing.
There is one thing I know for sure – there is NO seeking going on here now and there has not been any for many years. That is a total confirmation of what Bob is pointing out.
And it was Bob’s clear pointers that were heard. It appeared to take a little while for them to sink in but they did. He never asked me for anything in return. If you can’t see that as a sign of something out of the ordinary, then what more can I say?
Your ‘good teachers’ in ‘my opinion’ are transparent salesmen and they are ever-so conceited – not much more than sanctimonious spiritual self-images floating in space.
All I can do is wish you ‘luck’, if such a thing exists.
Sorry to have stirred up a Hornet’s nest for you – but I ‘did it’ without leaving my armchair.
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We have interviewed John Wheeler and his program will be coming up next. We also have some other very interesting interviews lined up to do. So, keep popping in to see what is happening here at the UGC. The coffee machine is broken but the company is good and the visitors are increasing day by day. It has doubled in the last month. We may have to purchase a bigger place if this keeps up. We are a friendly lot, a bit pushy at times, all good, as long as you are not too sensitive. Precious angels might not hang around too long. You will enjoy Wheeler’s interview. Areti seems to know how to get the good stuff out of ‘em. – Cheers.
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The point ‘I’ was trying to make here Gilbert was that regardless as to whether or not ‘seekers’ attend expensive retreats or save their money by coming here instead, neither of these is a WAY that will take anyone closer to what is already the case. And if either of these scenarios appear in the play of a character, then that’s what is. No spiritual ‘qualifications’ are required.
Even repeating learned paraphrases is ONENESS repeating learned paraphrases, and is totally appropriate as there is NO short cut and NO way to cut the cheese!
It’s all just words….
Oh by the way, for any American or Canadian visitors, the phrase ‘cutting the cheese’ used on here is NOT the same as your interpretation
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Something in the way those supposed ‘teachers’ conduct their bussiness reminds me of a quote from HWL poonja : “Where there are many, there is falsehood”
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Feeling Very Fortunate to have all of these comments and the Simple Truth that is pointed to here. I have to admit that even though Bob’s interviews were stunning, Gilbert’s Relentless Pointing throughout these comments has really been the Meat and Potatoes. Gilbert is ruthless, on the point and amazingly patient, like a Father who explains the same things SO many times and then comes back and does it again, asking Nothing in return.
YES, Areti does have a “Way” about her. Her questions are well put, exact and really cut through the stuff.
BRAVO to UGC and ALL who participate,
Warmly,
Mark
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Even the false is made of the same substance as what is true. ‘Who’ has a problem? This question is an obstacle that ‘so many’ avoid and they must avoid it because if it is confronted the ‘so many’ dissolves into THAT One Substance – One knowing – SEEING. There is ONLY One SEEING happening (it is not your seeing or my seeing).
Of course when the understanding is clear – in seeing that all is ‘of the One Substance’ – that all differentiation is contained in the un-differentiated – this ‘presence’, which is also absence, ‘non-presence’ so then all talk is contained in the knowing – it is neither right or wrong. In the Essence of One THING ‘All Yin’ is contained in ‘All Yang’ and so ALL is Equal – the splitting of the One Substance into dualism is only in the appearance (which is mind). The only split one needs to witness is ‘the original split’, the ‘seer – and the seen’ – the ‘knower and the known’ – the ‘subject and the object’. In the very witnessing of this as being a transitory ‘form’, of being a witness, appears to ‘be present’ yet it also is ‘seen’ or known to be also just another appearance in the SEEING. This is the ‘Self’-liberated insight. It is not a ‘Self’ that is liberated. That sense of limited freedom is still a subtle bondage for that idea of being a ‘self’.
Many things are expressed and the pointing is spontaneously arising – it is most often missed or interpreted erroneously by mind and memory.
The mind needs to dissolve in the immediate presence of knowing.
Some call this ‘No mind’. The martial Arts speak of ‘No Mind’. Action without a ‘doer’.
Now the following is a short statement that eliminates all confusion and discards all arguments: “Everything is contained in the SEEING”.
Sit with that and let it reveal its obvious revelations. It is far more profound than words can convey. Enlightenment is the nature of All Existence.
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“There is Only Experience” says Ramana Maharshi. And that experience consists of ‘nada’ and ‘bindu’ : light and sound is the way in wich Awareness patterns. All language (e.g. this comment section) is vibration only in THAT; sound visualised as squigles appearing on a screen in and as Awareness; Wich only the mind can make good or false. However when the idea of ‘many’ is accepted then the ‘underlying’ Oneness, wich is ‘in-divid’, is overlooked.
“I am talking to the individual because only the individual can change, not the mass; only you can transform yourself”-Quote from Krishnamurti
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Tom, I have No idea what you just said, but maybe that is “Good”.
It just occurred to me that … “Everything is contained in the SEEING†is All that needs to be known by Know-One. Laughter ensues
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There is no separate mind that has the power to do jack. All “things” are of the Source. There’s no separate Billy Bob who is confused and no separate Gilbert or Sailor Bob who understands this. There’s no progression from being a person, to being a “consciousness in training” entity that flip-flops between understanding & confusion, and then finally someone who is no longer a separate entity and is at one with awareness. Any talk of a mind that creates bondage or confusion for a person is a bunch of crap–because there is no person standing apart from awareness! Any idea of confusion for someone and understanding for someone else is also pure crap. Nothing is ever apart from that impersonal, unowned, pure consciousness. Anyone who claims to stand apart from this one essence and claim some sort of understanding or point to someone else’s “bondage” is rooted in false teaching (just another appearance/ movement in consciousness of course — not a false teaching in reality — but still pure crappola — which is never separate from pure awareness — but that won’t be realized by the reader who takes these directions literally — who still is never separate from pure awareness — see where this is going? — there’s no separate you — only the one essence)
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If “Everything is contained in the SEEING”, where is the SEEING contained?
Nice hearing Bob again. And I enjoy reading the comments by Gilbert and others.
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There is no container for SEEING. You can SEE this by closing your eyes – look for a boundary – move the body through space – recognize that the SEEING is simply and obviously un-interrupted and unbound by any ‘thing’. Things appear – seeing does not appear or disappear. Everything ‘appears’ in the SEEING. It may render you speechless ‘when’ this revelation ‘takes hold’. No words can be adequate and all words are limited – they all simply appear and disappear. Who is the observer? Can you truly find one? – P.S. Good to see some comments flowing – yes, a personal opinion, without any ‘person’. Such is the nature of THIS.
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‘Content vs. Container’ : There is only Seeing!
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Great discussion, especially about the gaggles of money spinning ‘teachers’ who misled me for a few years and after much spending. I want a refund from you all! All self-help sections of bookshops need to be removed as they offer a false hope to the seeker who then ends up more dejected than ever when the latest method fails again. Oh yeah, been there and done that big time. It made me hate the natural unfolding of life with all the ups AND downs. Such pompous, pretentious, materialistic and misleading ‘teachers’ never seem to end their stream of CDs, books, retreats, card decks and the like! The aforementioned Adyashanti claims to have had a special experience which he can now teach others so that they can follow the path to enlightenment! He then goes on to talk about so-called non-duality! And you can spend much hard earned cash on all the products to teach you how to know that you exist! What a trap. As Gilbert points out, how can you buy BEING? Luckily I stumbled across this message, one that it just so happens Bob expounds so clearly as maybe only a straight talking Aussie can. Even then I kicked against it until I read something by Ramana Maharshi pointing out how no one can deny their existence and thus because they exist the whole known world exists. I was stunned, and recalled Bob saying the same stuff. When I looked for a location for that existence I couldn’t find it! No expensive retreats or meditations were required, just a few well put pointers.
Thanks again all
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There goes your chance of any ‘stamp of approval’ or any ‘authentic certificate of attainment-signed by the master’ Sam. You won’t get to be a ‘polish the masters crown lacky’ in the Ashram with talk like that.
Spiritual Empires crumble because they are built on ‘time’ and time conquers all. “Time waits for no man” so get out of it and stay in THIS moment. It is effortless. All the crap about teaching people to live an awakened life is just a business deal. Oddly enough the masses don’t see that – then again, they never did see it. Look at any gathering of seekers. Where are the finders? Decades appear to pass by and the seeking just goes on and on.
Paraphrasing Bob: “Maybe they are (I am) looking in the wrong place.”
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I’m not sure if it’s okay to put links from other teachers but I hope it is as this really resonated with me and I think it may with many seekers who come to the UGC.
You may or may not be a fan of Osho but please read about his awakening at realization.org. It truly is the most vivid description I’ve read on “Awakening.”
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Thanks Ralph for the suggestion. It was great reading.
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I don’t know about that Osho recommendation. Not much of a reader except for UGC, but two sites I’ve visited recently I really liked: that Bill East (what am i really) site with the guitar and bongos and singing about non-duality–that music is hilarious and enjoyable at the same time! Also, I read “notes from Kings Cross” from Mark West’s page. He expresses this stuff beautifully–there’s only the aware presence and no entity who stands apart from this or who can know this…Mark’s words pretty much sum it up–there’s an undeniable presence of awareness and no entity that can get behind that or know that or own that. Even if there’s the appearance of identified consciousness or the feeling “i am a person”, those feelings and thoughts can only appear in what you are. Anyone who cares to look at this will see that it is undeniably so.
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Hearing about those ‘teachers’ I’m reminded of “BEING THERE” with Peter Sellers.
The surrounding people are as much responsible for promoting someone to the special status of ‘teacher’. When we promote someone, we demote ourselves. Which is a further strengthening of the believe in the image we have of ourselves.
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Just a gentle reminder to everyone – This is a comment page for this program of Bob’s interview.
Just a hint. Cheers – G
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The description of an Awakening is the very thing that locks the seeker into seeking.
What is being pointed out here is that there is NO Awakening. You are awake right now – if you were not awake, how could you be reading this note? Listen to the new program on John Wheeler. He covers this point very well. Also Bob’s interview covers it most thoroughly. Why it is not heard is a mystery. I guess seekers just cannot be finders.
Osho was very clear sometimes and then at other times he went off the beam totally.
I never ever met an Osho ‘person’ who had ceased seeking – they may exist but I have met a lot of them over the years. What is on offer here on the Urban Guru Cafe is direct pointing. It is not difficult stuff. The being that you are right now is perfect – the ruffled surface of believed in concepts about the ‘self’ or ‘I’ or ‘me’ is where the trouble lies. Take a look. Can you truly find anything with any substance or independence that you can say ‘This is what I am’ – ‘This is ‘ME’? It is extremely simple. It is the mind that resists and it is the mind that has gotten the ‘seeker’ into so much turmoil. The way out is simple – but the resistance to actually taking a look is ‘amazing’. As Bob says ‘Ordinary Awareness’ is it.
The mind says ‘No, that can’t be it’ – ‘It is too easy’.
As I have pointed out in my program ‘enlightenment is the true nature of all existence’.
‘Who’ has a problem with that? It can only be a ‘me’. And it does not exist.
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Is there any difference between how the things outside of the body/mind and those within the body/mind play on ordinary awareness? The content varies but is the container any different? No. And further, could there be an inside and an outside to the Self if all I am is this awareness.
The mind perceives things X seconds after the fact so at what point does this me ever choose to do anything and how can mind content ever be real when it supposes it is the doer and chooser in life.
We have become accustomed to focusing on the content of mind rather than the totality of what plays on awareness and it is like, as Bob says, focusing the rays of the sun onto our skin with the use of a magnifying glass – it hurts – and we focus here because we think the mind is where the substance of what we are resides.
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Areti, Good to ‘see’ your voice.
What struck a chord here in the “Osho” thing was:
” The very effort was the barrier, the very ladder was preventing, the very urge to seek was the obstacle.”
~The belief in the need to seek is the beginning of the end of nothing~
Warm Love
M.E.
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Good point Mark. So how does one get around it?
What helped the most for me was the realization that whenever I wanted something, it was really a particular experience that I wanted ultimately. And if what I wanted was ultimately an experience (i.e. I want X thing so I can have Y experience) I couldn’t know to want that experience if it wasn’t inside of me already! Thus, I’m literally pointing at the experience in my own awareness saying, I don’t have “That”! Hehe.
So the way that helps to get around it is to realize you’re already having the experience you want, it’s just not clear enough yet to be satisfying, and so the only thing to do is place awareness on that experience (i.e. attending to it), so it can get clearer. It’s relaxing into the knowledge that you’re already allowing it to shift and so all you have to do is allow yourself to enjoy it (or allow yourself to react however you naturally do – if enjoyment isn’t the natural reaction to know you’re evolution is being taken care of).
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The ‘thing’ to recognize (which is not a thing at all) is that the experiencING is un-interrupted. ALL experiences are the PAST…….and experience is only presently happening in the naming of experiencing…..or memory presently here now.
The point is that experiencing never ceases or changes…..it is the essence of what we are.
The constant change that is always happening is the dynamic aspect of Awareness – the Stable and un-changing is the static aspect. These TWO are actually ONE.
They are also called Samsara and Nirvana in one tradition. Words to describe the indescribable. There is NO entity is the pure experiencing. The entity enters through the naming process…..the THINKER is just a Thought. This revelation is the ‘King Pin’ that hold the whole bondage of self ‘together’. Pull it out and it all falls apart.
The courage to pull the pin is available – Because you are the Intent not the thoughts, words, images that appear and disappear.
Drop the internal dialog and simply SEE that you do not disappear with the disappearing thoughts.
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Agreed, Gilbert. I relate to what you’re saying. One point, and one question:
Anyone can have the experience of stopping thoughts and being beyond mind. That is the easy part initially. How does one make it stay? For me it was an examining of all of my old programs and allowing them to drop off. This was perceived different ways at different times and the process became automatic eventually, but that is essentially what it has always been. The process of growth. Self development and self realization are surely not the same thing, but, practically speaking, self development is often the process to get clear enough and safe enough so that self-realization can happen.
Question: What is your experience now that everything is complete – now that you contain both Relativity and the Absolute? I’ve been moving into a clarifying of both so that it’s almost as if I’ve come back into an individual AS that Nothingness. It’s like everything was (and still is) complete infinity everywhere – that is it’s fabric (and I am the fabric – although there’s no person as such because there’s no “edges”). Nonetheless, it was as if there was an individualization again of some sort, but each particle of individualization was the whole infinity that I experienced before. Like a crystalline structure – all crystal themselves being the whole crystal, but compounded on each other to create something fuller, even though that’s technically impossible to the mind. Do you have any experience that relates to that post Enlightenment?
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Toss away the ‘Almost if’. SEE directly. Do not hold onto the idea that the mind can see, or that a concept can see. It may sound odd but this is what ‘people’ are stuck to. It is the mind that makes up a story about experiences (past) and this appears nowhere other than in ‘the immediacy of this experiencing now’. The engagement with the description of the past or the future takes that believed in ‘you’ away from totally being present with what IS. The essence of what you truly ARE never moves away from THIS presence-awareness. There is NO ‘self’ – neither one that suffers or a one that realizes itself. What is wrong with right now-if you don’t think about it?
The WHOLE manifestation IS ‘SELF-REALIZATION’ just AS it IS. ‘Who’ does not know this? There is ONLY Knowing.
There never was ‘a someone who lived a life’ as Nisargadatta pointed out. There is ONLY Life. So’ ‘who’ are you talking about? ‘Who’ is this one that ‘came back’? – From where? – ‘Who’ was born and ‘who’ dies?
Enlightenment is a concept, a word. It is only ‘people’ who chase that ‘image’, which ‘they’ have been told about or have read about. The ‘person’ is a ‘mask’ only. The ‘persona’ cannot ‘do’ anything. It is an appearance. Like the shadow of a tree, it moves across the ground as ‘the day progresses’ – but it has no volition of its own. The ‘Shining Light’ is the origin of it all. That shining stable unmoving ‘source’ is just the same as this presence – this knowing. It is NOT personal – it only appears to be personal because it is believed in. The patterns of energy, the body, mind, Planet, Solar System, are all like the shadow of the tree. None of it has any independence or separation from that KNOWING – that knowing is what you truly are. This can be easily verified for ‘yourself’ in one moment but only through direct insight, not through the mind processes and thought. The mind will always divide ‘the One’ into multiple fragments.
That knowing is absolutely stable and no question or doubt ever touches it.
That indescribable ‘quality’ is permeating the WHOLE. The individual is the WHOLE. The ‘person’ is a shadow puppet.
As soon as a concept of ‘being separate’ appears and is believed in, so it is that the apparent qualities of the unfolding ‘drama’ follow suit.
I can tell a story or simply speak ‘personally’ without fear of getting lost: There has never been any lasting movement into ‘being a teacher’ here. Every time it has appeared, it is as though ‘something’ steps in, maybe wisdom, and the concept is dropped.
In the appearance this ‘I’ has appeared to have ‘played a role’ in delivering the message to ‘others’. Each time the clear indication comes, that ‘someone’ has seen through the mind and freedom from the concept of self has ‘happened’, then a warm feeling comes – and it gradually is replaced by ‘other’ things. (The patterns are always changing) There is no ‘holding on’ to anything going on here. (That fact really pisses off some people around me by the way)
So, take another look at your own questions and ask yourself “Where am I SEEING from?” and “Where are these judgments being made?” and “Where are these questions arising?” “What time is there if I don’t think about it?” If you really look into it closely ‘some invisible fact’ that has always been here will reveal itself to ‘you’ and then, most likely, there will be a witnessing of that ‘you’ fading away into emptiness and that is followed by the idea of being a ‘witness’ – without those conceptual notions you are clearly still present and aware, clear and empty – as NO THING.
What question could ‘No Thing’ ever have? As Bob said to me: “No one has ever gone beyond ‘No Thing’.
So, you may or may not resonate with these words.
The ‘seeker’ is looking for a ‘lolly’.
There is no ‘lolly’ to be had in a future time. There is ONLY NOW. Stop ignoring now.
Thoughts arise in this now. So what? Is there a willingness to ‘return’ to your original state? It is the death of the ‘me’. That is the price and no ‘person’ can ever accept that. What I say is all relativity but the source of ALL relativity is this Singular indescribable fact of your own existence – which is ALL inclusive – The Absolute. These words can be pulled apart and contradicted. The whole point is that an insight may happen.
All insights appear in the SEEING. SEEING is already happening – but not to a ‘person’.
You are already beyond the Mask. The mask can never KNOW anything.
There is no point in chasing shadows. As Bob Adamson says: “START from the FACT that you ARE…THAT.” That KNOWING, presence-awareness.
It is only 8 words yet they have the potency to stop the search in its tracks.
It is only the mind that argues its case against the FACTS.
There is NO becoming – there is only BEING and NOT BEING – What you ARE is both.
The apparent ‘Me’ is merely an appearance, appearing ‘between’ these two – the ONE only appears to be two. The whole ‘Appearance’ is an apparent movement of the ONE – which NEVER budges from its Omnipresence. Be that – it is what you effortlessly are.
It is only the mind that objects and its representative is ‘me’ – an insubstantial appearance in the mind – and the mind itself is only a bunch of concepts and images.
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Did you say ‘no ‘lolly’ ? My whole life I spent looking for a ‘lolly’ and now you tell me there is no ‘lolly’? How dare you and absurb that is ……. wait a minute…… what’s this in my pocket ?……. a lolly !……hmm… It was already here in the ‘now’ and I was trying to get it in a ‘future time’.
What a relief !!
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I will tell you you can do with your lolly Ralph – but it can’t be here for all to see.
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Whoa, let’s back up a few steps.
This is hard to describe, which is why I’m thrilled that I’m being asked to describe it:
My progression, as briefly as possible was: 1. Recognition that I was beyond my thoughts and identification with that beyond all mind. 2. Then there was a recognition that I am all that which appeared to be “outside” as well, and I felt like a very Enlightened individual. 3. Then the Enlightened-feeling individual vanished. Poof. Gone.
End of story.
The absolute changelessness. The No “Thing”-ness is in the foreground. All of life is a story, or a drawing – just ink and paper. This cannot be unseen, there is no choice. It never goes away, never changes. Everything in life that comes is just another piece of the Absoluteness. I couldn’t change that if I wanted to, not that I could ever possibly want to change the rightness of reality. It’s me!
This is when the person vanished, and the whole universe vanished, because I’d always thought of a person (as well as the universe) as having “edges.” When I was feeling Enlightened, they were very big, Cosmic, unified edges that spanned the universe, but they were edges nonetheless. This is complete edgelessness. There is only that infinite Nothingness. There is no person. It’s just the functioning of that fluctuation, and everything is perceived as that. It’s never diminished, lost or changed.
While there was a lot of light in this unified experience, the disappearance of the individual gave way to a deep, complete, comfortable, darkness. Pre-Time/Space – rendering everything uncaused and clearly displaying that there IS NO RELATIVITY. That is, there is only one thing happening here. Ha! I love it.
This initially felt like it was around the edges of the World, somehow. The appearance of changing was contained within the changeless. But without the appearance of changing also. Because it’s all just the Absoluteness. The Nothingness.
Then something interesting happened. Everything I’ve just said is clearer at this point than ever before, it’s never changed, gone anywhere. It cannot be threatened, subject to change, and it’s not an “Experience.” It’s a living reality at every moment and has been that way for quite some time. That is important to highlight in light of what I’m going to say next (I”ll put it in a new post).
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Then it was as if there was the appearance of the world (I say “as if” because there isn’t really even the appearance of the world). And there was no individual, just the world, living itself. The body, living itself, breathing itself etc. Since the disappearance of the individual, there is complete peace. The body, the mind, the emotions, could all even be freaking out, but it’s contained within perfect changeless-ness. Perfect Isness.
Then came the awareness that there is SOME individual. IF there’s a relative existence (and that’s a big IF) then there’s also the appearance of an individual, contained within the story, (which of course is just an illusion – a projection – we can’t forget that
). So now there is nothingness living as before (not negating or changing anything I said in the previous post) but there’s simultaneously this individuality to everything. It almost as if the Nothingness gets to fully experience all the differences (but there’s still no one there, remember, and it’s “as if” because none of what I’m describing ever happened because there IS NO RELATIVITY 
).
Life was seen clearly to only be an ink and paper drawing. The individual the central figure in the drawing. I could just not look at the ink and paper drawing again – but the truth is, everything in the picture may not be real, but it really is a picture, really is an appearance. It really is a picture of a boy pulling a wagon (for example). Of course the boy, wagon, house, etc. isn’t real, and the drawing could theoretically be interpreted any way one likes, but it really does have the tendency to look like a boy pulling a wagon. There is some order to the mirage, even though there are no boundaries. So there became this interest of the Nothingness to explore the details of the picture, which is COMPLETELY different than when it was experienced as reality. Still the picture is beautiful and interesting, but from the perspective (or understanding) of the Nothingness just functioning impersonally.
Suddenly, it’s literally 100% personal and 100% impersonal. It’s 100% Relative and 100% Absolute. It’s like there is the whole thing. And that’s the end of the story. Period. And then there’s more, without negating the fact that it’s the end of the story. It’s a paradox.
You say look beyond thoughts. I say, once thoughts have been looked beyond, the thoughts themselves become that which is beyond thought.
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Anyway, I’m still integrating all aspects of the experience, because it’s relatively new, so who knows?
There are definately many old ways of viewing things that don’t apply anymore, so who knows where the exploration will end up?
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It all only seemingly leads away from THIS and back again to THIS.
There is an apparent flow out from the Source and a flow back to the Source.
This is the nature of all appearances and disappearances.
The journey is only apparent. One never leaves THIS immediacy.
This ‘moment’ is all there IS.
Everything is contained in THIS – this is the ONLY KNOWING Presence that there is.
The naming of it is initially as ‘I am’.
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Of course. It never comes and goes from THIS. It’s ALL contained within THIS. Why would you think I’m even suggesting otherwise? My experience isn’t meaning to imply a separation different from the original post description. I suppose it’s an exploration of the paradox.
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A transcript of Bob’s interview is almost ready. It is being produced as a booklet in the next few days. It stands alone as a very clear document. When read through while listening to the programs, it assists those who have trouble with Bob’s accent and the fluctuating voice projection levels. You can order this booklet now by going to my website http://www.shiningthroughthemind.net and either use the donation tab to pay through paypal or by using the order CD link. The cost is $15US – add a note to the effect that it is the booklet you wish to receive. I think it is one of the clearest expressions I have heard – it covers everything. Warm regards – Gilbert.
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Thank you for making these interviews with Bob available. They’re priceless. And please tell him that he did so much to put me out of my misery, and that I found, by books and interviews (via the internet), his message struck home. My mind alone obscured reality. Nothing else. Thanks Bob. You’re a treasure! Best, Michele
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Bobs latest book ” One Essence Appearing as Everything” is incredible.
Such powerful Direct Pointing.
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