Urban Guru Cafe

susana says:

How astonishingly like bird song this gift is.
Love the teachers together, the musicians, it is just so dam perfect.
Warm regards and a wish for all – that we may all be suddenly overtaken
with the deepest belly laughs imaginable.
Just imagine a world of heaving belly’s.
And ending with van………………!!!!!!!!

Sorry to wax so eloquently but it is the seasoning.

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tomvds says:

Beautifull soundcape, diverse in it’s unity!
‘Meditate’ on this (or not):

BOB: Are you awake?
ARETI: Yes.
BOB: I Am Awake.
ARETI: I Am Awake.
BOB: And what do you have to do about that wakefullness? Do you have to look for It?
ARETI: No.
BOB: Just realise that you are not asleep. So If you’re not asleep you must be awake.
ARETI: Yeah.
BOB: What’s awake? In another words: Awake is Awareness.
ARETI: Yeah.
BOB:. So Now that wakefullness or Awareness. Full stop. What can you add to that? What can you take away from It? What profound thing do you need to get to it?
ARETI: Nothing, nothing profound.
BOB: What do you have to loose to get to It?
ARETI: My identity.
BOB: When did your identity come in ?
ARETI: It was never there.
BOB: You just thought of It then.(!!)
BOB: You can’t loose anything.
ARETI: No.
BOB: What more do you want?

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Sully says:

Many Thanks! I’m lost for words!

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gilbert says:

“I would contend” By what nature can that ‘I’ contend anything? Only in appearance.
It isn’t a matter of nit picking points or language. See the preferences that are being held onto, opinions that some way of SEEING is better than some other way of seeing.
To focus on the patterns called Bob or Areti is to miss the whole ‘message’ that INTELLIGENCE is expressing through those patterns. It is that intelligence that allows ALL activities to take place or ‘appear’ to take place. There is Wakefulness – it does not belong to any pattern in the appearance. The KNOWING is NOT in the pattern – the pattern (ONE Pattern) appears as an expression IN the KNOWING. There is NO Duality in Non Duality.
What more do you need to know?
Anyone that is offended by words, has not seen their true nature – no matter how much the BELIEVE that they have. That can be extremely confronting to recognize – for the ME – it depends on belief and KNOWING cuts belief to shreds in an instant of recognition.
Recognition is the ‘return’ to pure cognition. Cognition is all there is – the rest is merely appearance in THAT.
There is no ‘getting real’ – one cannot acquired the cognition of reality.
Reality IS. And what you truly ARE is THAT. End of discussion – so it would seem.
Happy New whatever. – Warm regards – Gilbert ( a pattern in the appearance)

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Richard says:

Hi Gilbert,

The ‘I’ that contends, is a dream character as well. And this dream character speaks in the conventional, in relative-speak rather than in Advaita-speak.

Some ways of seeing IS better than some other ways of seeing. To see the rope as a rope is a better way of seeing than to see the rope as a snake.

Many things are what are called mithya in Advaita-speak. They appear real but upon closer examination prove to be less than real. E.g., a mirage. Hard to quench one’s thirst there. Better to see a mirage as a mirage than to see it as a thirst-quenching pool. So too is the world that is seen as a world and a person that is seen as a person.

Yet I agree with most of your statements and have found many of them to be quite helpful.

If your pattern could further explain your following statement, this pattern would apparently appreciate it (awkward, yes?): “The KNOWING is NOT in the pattern – the pattern (ONE Pattern) appears as an expression IN the KNOWING.” Wouldn’t that be “…*AS* the KNOWING”?

Best wishes,
Richard

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gilbert says:

There are no ways of seeing. Seeing is seeing.
The minds translation is not seeing.
It is ALL KNOWING. No ‘knower’. No explanation will satisfy the intellect.

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Daniel Pewsner says:

Thank you so much. I deeply enjoyed this firework of insight, depth, beauty and humour! Here is all you ever wanted to know about Advaita…

Daniel

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gilbert says:

“The ‘I’ that contends is a dream character”. Is that what you are?
Surely NOT.
Speak from what you ARE.
These excuses of being a dream character smell of intellectual indulgences, which although very common, lead nowhere at all. They certainly don’t release the mind from its burden.
There is a remarkable opportunity presented here in these programs. They are not meant to be something to conceptualize about or argue. If that seems useful, then so be it.
But are you this ‘entity’ that ‘you believe’ that you are?
Have a look.
Where is the SEEING taking place?
Investigate that and it is the end of all postulations and doubts.
“You can’t make the horse drink”. You can provide the ‘water’ – but intellectual stubbornness, even on a subtle ‘level’ appears to be so ingrained.
That is the believed in ‘entity’.
‘Eternal Life’ is beyond all of the ‘content’ and IT embraces it all.
Reality is THAT which never changes. THAT is not a concept – it is expressed as words but the ‘meaning’ is beyond all meanings.
“Happy new moment” – G

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Sully says:

Gilbert,

Where is the SEEING taking place?
I don’t know where it is taking place. I use to think it was taking place within this body and looking outward but after being drawn to non-duality I know it’s not. To be honest I want to end all postulations and doubts. I’m listening to the podcasts but not sure if I even know how to investigate.

Sully,

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tomvds says:

Following is a partial transcript I made from an interview I found on the net with David Bingham who has some interesting things to say.
He speaks about pain as an invitation:
“Consciousness is disguising itself and making it appear as though you really are in pain: “I Renate am in pain” but that idea is just an idea that’s part of the disguise. Consciousness is pretending that Renate is in pain while actually awareness is aware of that pain and what you truly are is the Awareness that’s aware of it but that awareness hasn’t, in reality, moved in the form of Renate.”

Simple:
“Actually It goes back to the very simple kind of checking in at any moment: What is here? There’s awareness . So there’s Awareness of the light, of the sound. There’s awareness of these bodies sitting on this seat.”

Concerning Eckhart Tolle:
“The only thing that I would differ with Eckhart on is that Eckhart is implying that presence is something that could be attained by practice. But what Eckhart is talking about is the experience of presence. Because there can be an experience of presence. The experience of presence is stillness, the mind being quiet, imperturbability. That’s the experience of presence but true presence, presence awareness, is the awareness that knows that. As it knows pain and as it knows calamity. So it’s awareness that fully knows those things. So there’s no progressive development towards presence awareness. But it’s that in which everything as everything arises. But the experience of presence is what Eckhart is talking about is actually very valuable. The ability to disidentify with pain is actually a very useful tool. It’s something that makes the human experience much nicer. But actually that isn’t moving you towards self-realization because one is already the ever present awareness in which all that arises. But it uses the disguise of things like the experience of presence to make it seem as though “Yes, there was that experience of presence. If only I can make that permanent and lasting then I’m going to be self-realised.”. But actually the realization is that the knowing of that experience of presence, the experience of pain, the experience of a thought , the experience of a cloud passing in the sky are known all equally in the Awareness that you already are”

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Mark Ellis says:

The ‘investigation’ happens by itself.
SEEING is every where and every when. There is no getting away from it.
What the mind translates the ’seeing’ into is not the seeing.

Spot On, G~

Whatever this mind thinks about this whole deal is Not the Truth.
What Is the Truth…? That which Never arrived, can never leave and
has never changed.
And I can “know” absolutely Nothing about it and that’s just fine.

Happy New Year~
Mark

PS (the above quote I posted was a “Rumi”)

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Richard says:

Vat,

Nice quote by Nisargadatta concerning “There is nothing to practice”. He did say many contradictory things dependent upon to whom he was speaking. Even contradicting himself to the same disciple on different days.

Often he told disciples to be earnest and to meditate on the sense of I-Amness until it disappeared. This is what he himself did every spare moment for three years. He also did devotional practices.

Among disciples, Nisargadatta’s raison d’etre was to cut away concepts and bring them to the “state” he enjoyed, which is prior to/beyond consciousness.

A couple of months ago I was on the phone with one of Nisargadatta’s regular translators (NOT Ramesh Balsekar), now in his nineties, who said it was fortunate I called when I did because if I called a little later he would have been in meditation.

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suki says:

Deep Gratitude is felt here for Bob, Gilbert and Areti and all the support staff for ‘URBAN GURU CAFE’ and all involved in this open dialogue about the inescapeable awareness of what you are.

Due to the poverty of language, very few are able to articulate pointers as clear as Gilbert’s and Bob!

The clarity, sharing and honesty that i’ve seen here is moving:)

Love,
Suki

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gilbert says:

The concern about some lack in ‘others’ dissipates naturally and quickly. If one engages in that ‘perception’ it will drag you into the pits. The SEEING is free of all that is ‘seen’ and the ‘seer’ is only an appearance. ‘When’ this is recognized what concern could one have for what ‘others’ do or lack?
As is pointed out on my latest note on my website……you CAN’T make the horse DRINK.
If the horse is almost blind and can’t ‘smell’ how ‘CLOSE’ the water is………what is one to do? Pushing and shoving is never truly appreciated. So many get offended if their main obstacle is poked too often. The ‘me’ fixation.
Thousands of ‘horses’ die around the abundant ‘water hole’, having been drawn into lengthy ‘satsang’ with ‘gurus’ who tell the ‘horses’ that the ‘water’ is not ‘right here’ under their noses….they say that it is over the hills, a few miles away and that the territory is difficult and that only THEY know HOW to get there safely.
It is amusing how many get upset about such things being pointed out. What kind of investment could they have in ‘sacred stories’ about ‘future deliverance’?

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Ralph says:

Yes, Gilbert, the‘water’ is ‘right here’ under their noses but why after ‘pointing’ it so many, many, many times they still don’t see it. Perhaps when the investigation is turned ‘inward’ it will help to see why THEY are drawn into lengthy ’satsang’ with ‘gurus’ who tell them that the ‘water’ is not ‘right here’ under their noses but instead over there…. over the hills, a few miles away and that the territory is difficult and that only THEY know HOW to get there safely.

Know thyself to understand ‘other’.

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downstreamer says:

Just a big thank you for such a lovingly crafted podcast. I got a chance to listen today on my iPod, as I walked out in the subzero chill. A feast for the ears and mind. The music is apt, the comments from the various “gurus” sit well together – and serendipity takes care of the the rest. Keep up the good work!

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Ralph says:

Hey, my friends, I enjoy having my coffee at the UGC and while I’m here I do enjoy the talks. Taking it ‘personal’ or not is all part of what is and there is great insight when it is taken ‘personal’ and the seeing of that is seen.

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gilbert says:

Know what you are not ….the primary fact is: naturally there is knowing – not knowing of anything in particular…KNOWING is what I am – simply KNOWING.
The body and ‘mind’ are contained in the knowing – it isn’t the other way around.
When the ancients say that it is ALL KNOWING – it means exactly that.
However what the mind usually translates that short sentence into is something quite different. I am, you are, that KNOWING – It is singular, timeless and untouched by any ‘knower’ or anything that is ‘known’.
There is no duality in Non Duality.
Even though as that knowing, ‘I’ appear as this ‘character’ Gilbert, there is no limitation whatsoever. There is a knowing of that appearance of body/mind, just like there is a knowing of a bird singing. Where are the apparent limitations? What limitations are there to this body and mind, language, symbols and ideas, if I do not place those limitations there myself? Drop all concepts and recognize THIS.
Every utterance (by anyone at all) is ‘of the pattern’, of the phenomenal expression of the Singular Intelligence. The life span of any impression is limited – yet LIFE itself has no duration – it is the ever-lasting, continuous nature of experiencing – not the limited experiencing of a someone, or of anyone. It is ALL inclusive.
What the mind translates everything into is not the KNOWING – that is merely the appearance. Understanding has no words and is silent – how can it be transmitted or even spoken of? And yet we speak and talk of it endlessly – usually to no avail.
We imagine that we need to ride the crest of the immediacy of ‘NOW’ but that is just an idea, which comes and goes.
All these Characters like Nisargadatta, Siddharameshwar, Bob, or whoever, have some value so long as one is needing some ‘pointing’. In the ‘moment’ of recognizing ones own true nature, the ‘need’ vanishes. In fact, Nisargadatta was only with his guru for a short time before Siddharameshwar passed away. Nisargadatta had ‘heard’ what he had been directed to ‘do or see’ and with dedicated application of those instructions, the ‘result’ came after his teacher was no longer available.
The account of what Nisargadatta had been instructed to ‘do or see’ is well known.
How many actually are willing to apply the same instructions to themselves?
Meditation is a tool – it appears that is turns into a mechanical trap so easily.
The point to recognize is that the ‘meditator’ is a conceptual ‘effort maker’ who is waiting for a particular result. It is identified consciousness. Those who argue in favor of meditation or practices and methods HAVE obviously not recognized their own immediate true nature. There are no two ways about it.
There are teachers who make a living out of such ‘methods and practices’. They are not about to undermine their livelihood.
It is extremely clearly obvious that in THIS moment of naked awareness, there is absolutely nothing wrong with right now and nothing to get in some future time.
Knowing this, why would one sit down and make some specific effort….and to achieve WHAT? The ‘self-centred activities’ of the ‘seeker’ may well be very subtle in the mind games of one who believes they are awakened. I see this clearly in very well known teachers – who are obviously deluded and the whole thing is about THEM, as an individual. Parading around, pretending to be in some exalted state is a cloud of pink haze (as Tony Parson’s so aptly expressed it) is not recognized for what it is by those who are identified with their own ego image. In fact they admire such egoic displays and appear to emulate it. Anyway, this comment is now far too long.
It is good to see the exchanges happening on the pages.

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gilbert says:

There is truly no one that abides in any state prior to any other state.
Because of the attachment to the body and mind content, ‘we’ imagine that awareness comes and goes and we imagine what awareness is – or someone has described what awareness is and so we ‘work’ on that description and mold it to our own specific requirements – all mind games. Awareness is likened to SPACE by some.
Space is nothing that can be seen and yet we all ‘see it’. There is no ‘seer’ of space or anything until the concept of a ‘seer’ appears as a thought in mind and even then it is only a thought. This is radical ‘knowledge’. That may seem like gobble de goope to many but if you truly SEE into what is truly happening, it overthrows all conceptual foundations. There is no duality in non duality. The ‘seer’ and the ‘seen’ are the apparent dividers on what is always non dual. KNOWING is non dual.

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tomvds says:

If Conciousness (the presence-awareness that you are) or Knowingness cannot be perceived as an object, how do we know it has a limit? How could we be conscious of something beyond Conciousness? And if there’s no experiental evidence to suggest that Conciousness is limited, on what grounds do we believe that it is personal?

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Richard says:

Susana,

Thanks for your message. I thought I’d be swimming upstream alone. Hopefully your being with me doesn’t mean you are against anyone else. Looks like a good group.

Vat,

I think we are more or less on the same page.

The person I talked to on the phone was indeed Mr. Mullarpattan. The point of bringing this up was to show that meditation wasn’t only for beginners. (Nor did he request any money from me.) He had been a main translator for Nisargadatta 30 years ago or so. And here he was in his nineties, still meditating.

By the way, as you may know, some translators would gear their translations for Western ears. Mr. Mullarpattan would translate accurately Nisargadatta’s words. Once when he translated something that made little sense, someone asked him what it meant. He told them he had no idea, but these were Nisargadatta’s words.

Gilbert,

Agreed. Those who know themSelves have nothing to gain from meditation. The Soto Zen Buddhists say they meditate because it is an act of the already enlightened.

A main reason given for meditation is to calm the monkey mind and get the mind on a subtler level. I’ve had long lasting insight flashes (words fail) while fasting and meditating. Have also had same when not meditating, such as sitting face to face with Gangaji.

The Self inquiry of Ramana Maharshi is a type of meditation that aims at knowing ‘who am I’. This known, as you say, there is no reason to keep the raft of inquiry. And if, never employing such raft you know you are already on the other side, and there is actually no other side, what raft is needed to get you from here to here (a book title)?

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gilbert says:

Anyone interested can read a free e-book written by myself. It was published several years ago as a book. The e-book contains over two thirds of the published book. It was written during a ‘time’ when the full impact of this fresh, new understanding was active in me, so to speak. The link is here: http://www.shiningthroughthemind.net/pages/Everything_e-book_dec_07.pdf
There is also another e-book on my website http://www.shiningthroughthemind.net
called The First Instant. That was written during the first months of this fresh realization. Of course the realization is ever fresh and such terminology is merely to convey something that is easily understood without writing something too esoteric.
The e-books have made an impression with many. I frequently get emails of appreciation from those who have discovered them. A third book has been compiled, yet I am not inclined to publish it. It is very costly and given the few numbers that are interested, it seems hardly worth the effort, so to speak.
I may make more programs similar to this last one but I will wait until I am moved to do so.
Enjoy the e-book (s) – Warm regards – Gilbert

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Vat says:

Some meditate, some do not. I remember reading a transcript of Robert Adams, where he was saying that never meditates. On the other hand, there are still sages who continue meditation after enlightenment.

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gilbert says:

There is NO personal enlightenment. No before and no after enlightenment.
If enlightenment exists then it MUST be the WHOLE that is enlightened. (Light cannot exist without Darkness – they are One.)
All the patterns appear and the play of light and shadow can mesmerize you. By what ‘light’ is any of it known?
SEEING is that light of knowing. The ‘mind’ arrives in and as ‘the pattern’ and has no light of its own.
As long as you take yourself to be separate from the WHOLE, there will be dreams of unity with the WHOLE.

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gilbert says:

Everything is clear and obvious. That does not require someone to recognize the clarity and obviousness. These terms are only relative for the mind.
You do not have to choose between the illusion and reality – that ‘choice’ is an illusion.
What you truly are is reality – what you think you are is just transient appearance.
The KNOWING is of both these seemingly opposite sides.
There is only one SEEING happening – that seeing does not need to pass through what the mind has collected as knowledge. The colors of the rainbow appear but they are nothing but light, seemingly transposed into differentiation.
The SEEING is undifferentiated.
Be the seeing only. It is so simple ‘we’ miss it.
What I am is not negotiable – and it is unchanging – that is why the mind ‘passes by it’ over and over.
The recognition is a momentary flash of pure cognition breaking through the habitual minds terrain. The mind translates such moments into what we call ‘realization’.
Yet it is ALL self realizing and there is not one exception in that – it is all THAT.
‘Who’ has a problem? It is only a ‘me’ and that me is nothing but the mind putting labels on ‘things’ and ‘events’ – which all simply appear and disappear.

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Richard says:

Many might know some or all of the following. Some might not and might be interested.

A couple of years ago there was a series of podcasts, The Advaita Show, where Cameron Reilly hosted Bob Adamson. We, the listeners would e-mail questions, Cameron would read them to Bob and Bob would come up with some great answers. Many were helped by these replies. You can hear past shows by going to Bob’s site, to his links, and clicking onto Cameron Reilly.

When Bob left the show (which continues without him) someone (Gary) wanted to keep the question and answer format going. He began the e-group AdvaitaNow. Here we discuss several advaitic and non-advaitic issues. We are also able to e-mail each other.

Mostly the posts are light hearted. AdvaitaNow still continues, but when it looked like it might end, another e-group formed, Advaita-Zen. These two are of a similar nature, mainly with the same members.

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gilbert says:

Everything is spontaneously appearing without cause. All is that and you cannot get behind the knowing of it all. By the negation (I am not this or that) one ‘comes’ to the naked knowing, which is really all that is happening.
The ONE is realizing itself just as it is (which applies to any moment and any situation – in this relativity). The mind is nothing but thought, image, concept and ideas etc.
‘We’ are so habitually attached to this mind realm, ‘we’ think it is reality. Only ‘when’ we negate the attachment to it all is there a clear view, without the mind translation overriding the direct and immediate impressions of LIFE. This remains theoretical until it is the immediate experiencing AS a Knowing without interpretation.
Oddly enough this is always present. Since we insist on making things personal, the impersonal remains seemingly out of reach.
This explanation may well seem complex for most – yet if there is some recognition happening, it may well make sense. Making sense relates to the mind.
Reality does not need to make sense – yet all senses appear in it. You cannot divide what is real – because it is one. The ‘many’ appear in mind.
The mind (appears to) moves away from reality, thus what is undifferentiated ‘appears’ to be differentiated. Yet as Catherine says “Awareness at root, is one”.
‘One tree’ has many branches, twigs and leaves – that is just what appears above ground. Below there are as many branches etc, like a reflection of the above.

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gilbert says:

Intelligence is ‘doing’ everything from the way a water droplet behaves or its molecules – from the way a planet moves around a star to the way a falling feather slowly alights upon the soil. The one who is ‘attached’ is also made of thought. Nothing is separate and the concept of attachment is just a convenient concept. Nothing is separate from THAT which knows it all. Where do ‘you’ place ‘yourself’ in all of this?
Start from the fact that you are THAT one without a second.
If you ‘start’ anywhere else, then it is from a concept and that is mind stuff – mind stuff has NO being. So you may detect that it is impossible to arrive at reality from starting with a concept – you just add more and more concepts – but WHO is this one who thinks it thinks?
Investigate – you ARE the intelligence – don’t take any answer to be true – negate it until there is just naked Knowing. Then no one and nothing can convince you of anything.
You are the Knowing and nothing other then that.

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Ralph says:

Since we are on the topic of music, I like this persons interpretation of the Pink Floyd song ‘Comfortably numb’.

“The song is basically about the first childhood experience we have of the pain of being alive and how from then on life becomes more and more of a struggle. Eventually after years of all this we become numb to our emotions and feelings as one pain after another piles up on top of us. The only reaction is to become desensitised to the pain, which eventually causes us to lose touch with our feelings and become numb”.

I…. have become comfortably numb .

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gilbert says:

The ‘I’ has no home and is an ephemeral ‘non-being’ – it oscillates between ‘hope and despair’ and it can never ‘become numb’ or feel pain. It is a word (‘I’) and how can a word feel anything? What you are is not a word, image or idea. All of the senses are registering on emptiness. As long as you take yourself to be the instrument of reception of these impressions, then ‘you’ will be diverted into a mind realm of belief.
The ‘wheel turns’ and its turning is obvious….it appears in the SEEING….AND you are beyond ALL the activities of the wheel – you are the axis of the universe – invisible and everywhere. As a ‘thought being’ you step out onto the wheel and the further you go on the wheel, the ‘deeper’ it feels as though ‘you are lost in identification’. The axis is beyond the realm of atoms and molecules and so it does not move or turn and there also, abides the SEEING – from ‘there’, which is not a location (it is everywhere), everything is truly clear and obvious – the understanding is silent and wordless. Any expression of this understanding is neither necessary or unnecessary – it just IS. Neither right nor wrong. This understanding is totally available to ‘everyone’ yet it is ignored and passed over endlessly and this you know to be true – because the seeking of it is only because it is known prior to seeking. The belief that I have lost the understanding is the only obstacle.

“A belief is NEVER the ACTUAL”. (Some 8 years ago, Bob Adamson pointed that fact out to me – once SEEN, how can it be forgotten?)

Get ‘one foot established’ in the silence of your own being and negate all that arises in the mind until the other foot is re-united with the first foot. From THIS ‘place’ everything is seen for what it is. Nothing can tempt you back onto the wheel and one can simply observe.
Once established HERE you can assist others ‘off the wheel’ but I can tell you that the ‘bee stuck in honey’ (the identified one) is saturated by ‘identification with concepts’.
It is extremely rare that anyone of these ‘bees’ is truly grateful for any assistance. They will play along until the central identity is threatened, then all the excuses under the sun come into play. (by association “The Conference of the Birds” by Farid ud-Din Attar is a story about such excuses)
The cost of letting go of their attachments is far too great – why? – because they still BELIEVE that they are the body and the mind content. These metaphors say something.
The basic truth remains inexpressible. You ARE THAT unchanging motionless KNOWING.

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dorothy hoffman says:

Gilbert, in your e-book, you state

“In your apparent ‘journey’ you must find what is called ‘a true teacher’. One who lives the freedom he speaks of. It is not a matter of service to someone and time does not play a role in self realization, so in the appearance it can be very quick. Very quick – and it is in fact instantly revealed.
You must find out what it is that ‘seemingly’ obscures this clear presence of immediate knowing.
Even though the messenger will tell you that there is no teacher and no teaching, you must pursue the situation to its final ending. Paradoxically, such an ‘ending’ can only ever be ‘a dissolution’ of erroneous beliefs, right here, right NOW. You are already HERE ‘in’ and AS this Moment.
Get the message and be done with seeking all together.”

I know for a fact that you are the true teacher as your pointing resonates; and even though it is recognized for what it is, the situation has not “reached” its final ending as you state. How and what to pursue?

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gilbert says:

“the dream character BELIEVES in its reality.” A belief has NO power at all. Explore the believer and recognize that you are the SEEING, which is obviously beyond what is seen and the notion of being a ‘seer’ is also just a concept.
Then these stories about that character will have no fascination for you.
At the moment, it seems you keep attempting to give this character some qualities that don’t exist. Why that is happening can only be because you have NOT seen it for what it is. Ralph consistently agrees with some pointers and then ‘he’ throws up the very point that ‘he is caught on’ – as if that is a ‘reason’ why he is not free, or usually ‘he’ uses the ‘third person’, as if ‘he’ has some compassion to help those caught in his own trap. Only one that is truly free of concepts can help another – and that is only in duality. There is no duality in non duality and there are truly no others.

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audrey says:

One of several gems in Gilbert’s last few comments – ‘..what I am is beyond all that is perceivable, even the finest impressions of life, on whatever scale, register on ‘something’ that is finer than any thing (impression) can be..’ What I am is always just behind everything else, untouched and untouchable, known and at the same time forever ungraspable.
Something that made me laugh in the last post, Lee Hazlewood sings, ‘you hurt me, I don’t forget, I’m a bad sport’ ..if anything was ever true about the aggrandizing/defended sense of me, that sums it up. And Randall..’you are there to see these things happen’, and Bob..’no-one to take delivery’, and the interaction he has with someone who describes joy as the relaxation that comes with not wanting.Great stuff.

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Mark Ellis says:

They yearned so deeply for Him who is both near and far,
They were drawn to this sun and burned to an ember;
But the road was long and perilous that was open to offer.
Hooked by terror, though each was asked to remember
The truth, each an excuse to stay behind was keen to proffer.

ThanQ G~

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hoopoe says:

“Come you lost Atoms to your Centre draw,
And be the Eternal Mirror that you saw:
Rays that have wander’d into Darkness wide
Return and back into your Sun subside ”

-The Conference of the Birds (Persian: Mantiq at-Tayr, 1177)

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tomvds says:

Everything (IS) happens in non-duality including concepts.It may be seen that concepts never divide anything. There is no beneficiary, only the ACTUALITY beyond belief.

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Mark Ellis says:

Excruciatingly Clear~

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Vat says:

Nisargadatta: “To go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and go beyond. He who seeks Liberation must examine his mind by his own efforts, and once the mind is purified by such introspection Liberation is obtained and appears obvious and natural.”

Q: “Then why are sadhanas prescribed?”

Nisargadatta: “Freedom to do what one likes is really bondage, while being free to do what one must, what is right, is real freedom.”

Q: “How can the absolute be the result of a process?”

Nisargadatta: “You are right, the relative cannot result in the absolute. But the relative can block the absolute, just as the non-churning of the cream may prevent butter from separating. It is the real that creates the urge; the inner prompts the outer and the outer responds in interest and effort.” “You seem to want instant insight, forgetting that the instant is always preceded by a long preparation. The fruit falls suddenly, but the ripening takes time.”

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nathan says:

Alongside a very serendipitous meeting with the teacher of newly taken up musical instrument, these interviews accompanied by Gilbert’s excruciatingly clear pointers have been an incredible gift.

When doubt arises…LOOK at it…when fear arises…LOOK! SEE what the hell it is…when arguments/objections/opinions come up…who SEES…are there two of you? Are there a billion of you?

“I” is the hinge upon which everything hangs…and everything’s swinging in thin air…appearing out of nothing…returning to nothing.

Who WANTS more?

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milton says:

Gilbert: Thanks for the pointing. Please stay with us a while longer. What you say rings true but for some reason there is a resisting of going beyond the intellectual level to seeing, don’t know why, guess attachment to me (but not consciously aware of this). Obviously seeking or effort at this point is to no avail or just reinforces the resisting. Resisting the resisting goes nowhere. Be patient and do nothing???

Grateful Life,
Milton

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suki says:

Gilbert,

No more questions or problems are arising here!

i see more and more about less and less.

Love and deep gratitude,

suki

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christine says:

hey, there is something wrong with your computer. it´s 12:44 right here right now.
at least where i am.

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Richard says:

Hi Gilbert,

You’re the man. You are what Willis was talkin’ ’bout. (If that doesn’t translate, it’s a compliment based on an old t.v. show.)

I for one truly appreciate your (and everyone’s) replies to my posts. If you are in the ultimate state, I would doubt expression of that appreciation or even condemnation, would matter at all to you, being beyond such nonsense. Nisargadatta often acted agitated with questioners, but inside he was quite calm, according to those who knew him.

I can’t agree with your portrait of seekers as “somewhat annoying creatures”. There is no ‘somewhat’ about it. We are totally annoying, totally self involved egotists who continue our meaningless search for absolute Truth, and will settle for nothing less.

Thanks,
Richard

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gilbert says:

‘People’ make ‘heroes’ of gurus and they, by habit, immitate their favourite guru or teacher, imagining that that will give them what they seek.
Nisargadatta’s words in all the books about him are consistently pointing at what lies beyond the ‘I am’. Each ‘answer’ was directed at the essence of the questioner. Some ‘answers’ included particular details for that ‘being’, the questioner. He was not addressing ‘everyone’ and to take the recorded conversations as being a general public talk is misleading. Of course many points throughout the books relate to ‘us all’.
I have listened to many recordings (60 or so) of the meetings of Nisargadatta and I can tell you that he was predominately quite softly spoken and the general impressions I had, like many others also have, from the various video footage of him being very animated and fiery – those concepts vanished.
He was fiery at times – You could say that some ‘stubborn seekers’ may well need to be shaken out of their stupor – yet the essence contact was always there.
Awareness speaks to awareness – and getting the obstacle of old habitual mind out of the way is a good thing. There are many ways of doing that and a ‘shock’ can serve quite well. Those who trusted him, those who didn’t get lost in ‘self-defense’ benefited.
A shock in life can make the mind come back to what is real – when we drop the bullshit, things get a lot clearer it seems. They are ALWAYS clear of course but the occupied mind is getting things muddled and messy.

The potency remains in “I am THAT” and all those other recorded conversations (books) and many readers still appear to benefit from them – and many more also miss the essential message. Whatever is required to ‘stop the mind’ is valid. Each case is different.
I am not a devotional type and that ‘way’ seems full of time wasting. I wanted to KNOW for myself and that impulse prevailed.
Now I know that I am that knowing and always have been THAT. The direct ‘way’ is quicker than the quickest – but to convince the ‘mind’ of this is impossible. The mind is slow and cumbersome. It can never catch up to this immediacy of BEING. Understanding is in BEING – not the mind.
It is only the mind that ‘gets in the way’ but the fact is that nothing can obscure awareness. It all appears in, on and AS awareness.
As Bob says: “There is no answer in the mind”. Why do ‘we’ keep looking there for an answer?
Whoever the teacher is, Nisargadatta, Bob or Mary Lou – It isn’t about him or her.
They (the realized teacher) have already made the required ‘efforts’ and the result is obvious. There are many who have rediscovered their true nature who are not moved to be teachers – yet they ‘influence’ many in their lives, maybe in apparently indirect ways. (Understanding is in BEING – not the mind)
Whatever resonates in your being, the words of any guru or of anyone at all is only resonating BECAUSE of…. what someone once called ‘the law of reciprocal vibrations’. That is a concept – a useful concept and it must also be discarded once its done its job.
The basic fact is: YOU ARE the truth – reality. The pointers cut through the crap and are only ‘touching’ that truth that you are – assisting it to ‘respond’. Isn’t that what all the longing for is about? – To be real and cast aside this game of being someone that we are not?
When that resonance (response) is strong then the ‘shift’ from identified consciousness back into pure being is invincible.
It appears we need to taste it a few times. Our authenticity may show itself as a ‘feeling’ of being genuine. As a thought it is less likely to be genuine because thoughts so easily divert by association. Things get muddy quickly and even the most profound insight can ‘become’ unclear quite quickly – thus the seeking of it again takes us back into the mind – and we believe that it is real.
Are these words making some sense? It is like navigating through a dense jungle, avoiding all the vines and ‘dangers’ of the mind – the pit holes and well trodden pathways of old ideas.
With that strong resonance in being, one realizes that ‘I have always been here’ and in seeing the dissolution of what was believed in, there is an undoubitable KNOWING that ‘I am not those things’. I call it ‘The First Instant’ (The only instant). That is our true nature. There is no one living in time. Everything is THAT.
The manifested appearance of ‘things’ is ‘the essential nature’ expressing itself but it isn’t how it ‘appears to be’ (in time) – it is ALL Being ‘appearing’ timelessly – ever changing in appearance yet unchanging in essence. Its undeviating ‘reality’ does not move or change. There is ONLY one reality.
Seeing that I am (in being) equal to THAT, via the natural ‘equanimity of all things’, then a natural understanding expresses itself though the mind without getting bogged down on old ideas. The ‘signature’ of all things is ‘awareness’ itself – space-like – emptiness.
‘The ONE’ (Whole) does not ‘need’ the many. It ONLY appears AS the many.
Our many beliefs are appearances. The ‘me’ is an appearance. The clear understanding does not need beliefs or knowledge.
If you can grasp the underlying ‘principal’ of these ‘pointers’ it may reveal itself to be the basis of everything.
This ‘knowledge’ is also an appearance and the essence of all knowledge is KNOWING.
Knowing is unchanging and that is what ‘I am’ (this applies to everyone).
All expressions are actually equal and there is nothing wrong or right in them.
One need not enter into the realm of defense, of an opinion or the ‘ground of being’, because there is no need to protect what I am.
It is the ‘biased mind’ (duality) that introduces right and wrong.
Get a glimpse of the mind game and see that it is the habitual ‘ego’ that all the mind game revolves around.
In the moment of SEEING it, it already is vanquished – yet what usually happens (an opinion) is that the minds habit quickly regroups in order to smother the emerging truth of ‘what is’. Of course ‘the truth’ or ‘what is true’ does not emerge because it ‘already is’.
After ‘many years’ of being ignored or ‘smothered’ this ‘emergence’ appears to have two aspects to it – the ‘dark side’ is threatening (to ‘me’) because the false is tentatively balanced upon beliefs and will crumble in the face of what is true. The other aspect is a sense of utter release from ignorance and ‘me’.
The brilliance of SEEING WHAT IS may ‘seem’ like an overwhelming revelation for the mind. Like a caveman emerging from a cave after many years in darkness – he needs some ‘time’ to adjust to ‘the light’.
‘The dark night of the soul’ (often spoken of in spiritual literature) is the struggle of the habitual ignorance. The light of ‘what I truly am’ will not be defeated. Once a crack appears in the shroud it is already falling away. It may appear to take time – yet the ‘instant of seeing’ is ever present. The habit is to ‘go with’ what the mind is translating from the experiencing.
As Bob says: “The only way out of the mind is full stop”.
The mind is time- the mind is ‘me’.
What you are is NOT in the mind.
WHO are you? Where are you located? Why is seeking manifesting?
What do ‘you’ imagine that you will acquire?
By what light do you SEE?

What you SEEK you already ARE.

There is a popular teacher in the West who prides himself as being in the same state as Nisargadatta and uses that in his self-promotion crap. That may impress the unwary devotees but to me it is just guru bullshit. Charisma crap and sucking seekers into a process in time belongs to the realm of the mirage – it will NEVER help anyone – it only prolongs the confinement – ‘people’ get comfortable with their uncomfortable-ness.
A ‘true messenger’ does not need devotees and the delivery of the message can be very quick. Whether it is ‘heard’ or not is ‘another matter’.

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gilbert says:

Yes, I know of him and that his name sounds like some sort of milk product. He contacted me last year wanting to share videos. I looked at a few minutes of one of his. I wasn’t moved to listen any further. He may be quite OK. The masses of followers is not such a good sign in my estimation. Why keep seekers treading the time wheel. Set them free and be done with it. The atmosphere around gurus can be a sticky trap. I am not into devotional stuff and kissing the gurus feet is a sign of a servile mind. There are many teachers around who say all the ‘right things’ and still indulge in a ‘self-image’ (God’s gift to man). I could name a few well known ones but I prefer not to get abusive emails. Mooji may be OK. We may even interview him one day. Frankly speaking, there is enough ‘stuff’ on this website to get the message across to the most stubborn intellect. We don’t need another guru, in my opinion. Sending anyone to a guru complex nut case is not what we are about. They skim the pockets of their devotees and live the high life and it would seem that they gradually get corrupted and die looking like Dorian Grey.
All this nonsense I am writing doesn’t help anyone and it just sets a few ‘nutters’ off on a mission to discredit me.
“Don’t go sticking your head in a hornet’s nest” is one of my favorite quotes.

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Mark Ellis says:

Isn’t that what all the longing for is about? – To be real and cast aside this game of being someone that we are not?
So True

Richard says:

Gilbert,
Your 01.11.09 6:18 pm post was too good. I’m using up too much paper and ink printing out your pointers. Why not in one sentence tell us only “You are That” and I can make that my final printing job?

Angie,
Mooji is from Jamaica mon.

Richard

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gilbert says:

B. Walsh……
There is no birth…..nothing is born except the idea of ‘me’.
Nothing exists outside of this moment. This moment is Eternity.
Rebirth is a concept. There is only LIFE.
When did this moment begin? Does it end?
As one saint said: “Only by dying (no ‘me’) can I have Eternal Life”.
Identification with the body, the form, is where the problem lies.
Bodies are conceived and they live in this immediacy – the life force at ‘death’ continues within the micro organisms of the body. Nothing is lost. Awareness remains – but the association with identified consciousness has dissolved.
Look now in this immediacy and see if you can find anything called ‘time’ – not the concept of time.

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bwalsh says:

hmm, i’m still puzzled. i’ll try to explain.

so when the consciousness has gone(bodily death has occured), only awareness remains. that is the unchanging source. now, what is stopping consciousness to re-appear and through ignorance from others, there is again identifying with the body and again the seeking process occurs.

sorry if the question is stupid, but hope ya understand what im trying to say.

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nathan says:

Yeeeesssssssss…

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milton says:

Reciprocal vibrations are happening via the UGC penetrating the dense jungle to pierce the shroud. Let the emergence of the truth not be smothered. “Not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.” Thanks to one and all.

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gilbert says:

“When the consciousness is gone” is a postulation that has no direct evidence.
You cannot remember being born. You know nothing (it is a postulation) of ‘your own death’ except some second hand ideas.
It may be useful to define things like thins: Consciousness is the manifested forms that appear in Awareness and that includes the body and all its states, thoughts, ideas, concepts, feelings etc. These patterns appear and disappear as the changeful nature of the world. The ONLY thing (which is no thing) is Awareness.
The mind is trying to grasp awareness and understand, it would seem. That trying is appearing on awareness, in awareness, like everything else.
You cannot divide it up and the attempt only produces more and more concepts.
Negation is the way to go.
Retrace your steps. You have ‘entered’ a world of concepts and it is endless.
Cut them away one by one if necessary. As new ideas arise dismiss them.
Let the mind rest on nothing at all.
In this way it will be revealed that ‘what I am’ is no thing.
I am the SEEING of it all. Yet I cannot say what I am.
The forms belong to phenomena and the SEEING-KNOWING is not in phenomena.
“Prior to Consciousness” is one of Nisargadatta’s book titles. It, the title, points at what I am deliniating here.

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gilbert says:

There is only ONE SEEING. The paper bag and the pin holes are just appearances in the SEEING. It is ALL SEEING.
‘You’ imagine yourself as a ‘seer’ but that is an idea – that is correct – it is only an idea – it can be seen as an idea because it appears in the SEEING – just as EVERYTHING appears in the SEEING.
This revelation will stop the mind in its tracks and the wonder of it all is spread out across the universe.
The Hubble Telescope cannot SEE – it is an instrument of seeing – it increases the power of cognition just like a pair of binoculars or a microscope. The SEEING has no limitations at all. In taking yourself to be the instrument of SEEING, ‘you’ limit the unlimited with a simple concept – it is unnecessary and in fact a concept does not limit anything except the ‘me’ – and REALLY recognizing that is called ‘liberation of self’. Yet there is no self and there is no bondage. SEEING is happening.
Krishnamurti said in his last years “I have been singing to the deaf for 40 years”.
That is not such a subtle belief in separation and his appearance of being depressed about that ‘situation’ only shows how the mind can drag us back into the drama.
Yet some of the clearest ‘pointing’ emerged from him in the early years.
The K Foundation still treat him like a hero and so the direct message gets covered over by the ‘personal’, the belief that there is a ‘person’ and even an ‘enlightened person’.
Start right there where (you are) the SEEING is clear and obvious – do not add any concepts to the seeing. Let the mind be free.
There may even be a momentary gratitude for this ‘pointing’ as it is recognized, before the ‘me’ dissolves.
I am telling you that this revelation is completely and totally available right NOW.
It is only doubt and engagement in beliefs that stop this revelation from blossoming – the core belief is that you are a ‘person’.
The postulated ‘future deliverance’ of that person, so popular (as a binding factor for seekers,) is only an idea, promoted by gurus who believe in the ‘personal enlightenment’. It is a story – sure it puts butter on their bread and why not – but it is just a story, with a begining and and end. What you ARE has no begining and no end.
Drop the stories and SEE it all for what it is – right NOW.

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Mike in SF says:

Great posts Gilbert. Hopefully you’re saving these up for a book or two.

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milton says:

I agree with Bill, unlimitedness arises when it arises there is nothing we can do to make it happen. All the doing just happens by itself.

Gilbert: Some of us do respect what we get for nothing, maybe even more than what we pay for! Thanks for your efforts

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Bill Tys says:

The following three lines are an abbreviation of Andrew’s five minute concluding delivery at Bob’s last night. He was inspiring and spot on!

When the words “I am” arise, it is the mind translating what is.

The words are content appearing in the seeing and the words are not necessary to know that you are.

Just prior to declaring “I am” is the natural state…and it is undeniable.

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suki says:

BOTTOM LINE:

ONE CANNOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING!

WITHOUT LANGUAGE, WHAT CAN YOU SAY?

In fact what you ‘ARE’ ! is beyond translation!

The above has only meaning within the confines and structure of language!

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bwalsh says:

thanks for the previous replies Gilbert.

“Or better still…instead of those very formal words above, you could have the following conversation…

YOU: Do you know that you are?
PERSON: Of course I do!
YOU: Do you need to say “I am” to realize that you are?
PERSON: Certainly not!
YOU: So you are before you say “I am”?
PERSON: Yes!

Case closed!”

really? don’t you have to stay put in the “I am” to the exclusion of everything else? of course you are before you can say “I am”, but through habit, identification with the mind continously occurs. theoretically, anyone can agree with what you said.

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christine says:

grüß gott, may i join the word game again?
i know i`m only playing with myself, talking to myself, because there`s nobody there.
my marriage of 37 years has taught me that.
still i do enjoy the word game.

do a deer-a female deer,
re a drop of golden sun,
mi a name i call myself,
fa a long long way to run……..

up jacob`s sound ladder and down the loop. up i climb and down i go in a whoosh.
up again, down-up-down-up, what fun.

and i like fairy tales. have you heard the one about the rabbit and the hedgehog?
they were betting about who`d arrive first at the end of the field.the rabbit was so sure that he`d arrive first. but he didn`t know, that the hedgehog had put his wife there.
so when he arrived there was the hedgehog saying: i`m already here.
let`s run again, said the rabbit, because he couldn`t believe it.
so he kept running back and forth, he tried again and again: i should put more
effort into it, that cannot be. but every time the hedgehog: i`m already here.
back and forth, back and forth until finally he dropped dead-that uptight angsthase.

i notice that you are using the word angst. i guess because it`s so accurate. it is related to eng, which means narrow.

a narrowminded rabbit an openminded hedgehog

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milton says:

Gilbert: how do I stay with the “wordless subtle beingness, which has been called ‘I am’ ” without getting caught up with ego pursuits such as turning it into yet another technique for achieving enlightenment?
(Gilbert inserts answer here) Give up the idea that there is ‘something’ called enlightenment. That is all second hand ideas and mind projection.
What you seek you already are. The ‘I’ cannot stay anywhere. It is a word and all words appear and disappear. Be what you ARE. You are awareness – full stop.

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gilbert says:

What Bill says is spot on. The ‘false’ cannot stand up to the SEEING of it for what it is. SEEING is happening. There is truly NO seer. ‘You’ as a separate entity will NEVER see this truth. That ‘you’, a pattern, cannot SEE and in the SEEING there is no one that sees. Recognize that ‘you’ are ‘personalizing’ everything and there lies the problem.
But who’s problem is it? It can ONLY be the problem of a ‘me’, a reference point – and that reference point is habitual, so habitual it has never truly been questioned and looked at.
I see it all the time, ‘people’ say that they have seen through the ‘me’ and the very expression that is happening in saying that, there is an obvious belief in a ‘me’. How odd.
The intellect is not the intelligence. ‘Your intellect’ is just one in billions of intellects and the core essence of them all is SINGLULAR.
The same intelligence ‘opens as a rose’ and moves mountains into the sea, it gestates a grub into a butterfly and appears as a trillion rain drops in the desert. Each grain of sand has a ‘story’, each grain is unique and its own journey is different to all the others that it nestles with in this moment. At any ‘point in time’ it is simply ‘What IS’. Each synaps in your brain has a ‘history’ and ‘you’ know nothing about it.
‘You’ imagine that ‘you think’ and the fact that ‘the thinker’ is just another thought is not recognized.
Why? Isn’t it because ‘you’ are too busy with ‘yourself’ and your search for meaning? And you search in an old rubbish dump – the mind.
There is no answer in the mind. Let that sink in and cease from this merry go round ride to nowhere.
The intellect is learned ‘stuff’. As children we are praised when we learn by rote and pass exams etc. We are encouraged, quite unconsciously, to ‘fit in’ and be a winner. The kids that get ‘top of the class’ are obviously bright – yet a robotic response is encouraged and rewarded by ‘the system’. That quickness of mind is rewarded and it often turns into a ‘big problem’. It isolates the ‘idea of self’ and the idea that ‘I am better than everyone else’ turns into a sticky attitude. That turns into a ‘wart’ called arrogance – and it all turns on a reference point that does not even exist – thus underneath it all is vulnerability. Some join ‘special spiritual groups’ and the pattern just repeats itself there. Have you not seen the backbiting bitchiness in spirtual groups?
In the so-called ‘spiritual realm’ there are many who are blatantly spiritually arrogant and they most often don’t see it themselves or even suspect it – and they are often rewarded by the guru because they play the game and support the gurus hypnotic trance inducing methods. That arrogance is a ‘set of armour’ which must be smashed to pieces one way or another, if any true freedom is to emerge.
All the ideas about oneself are almost always revolving around a false center – some call it ‘false personality’. Is it all about ME? (for you)
Are you spiritually arrogant? Are you playing a game of one upmanship with your spiritual friends? It is a ‘sneaky thing’ and I see it going on in ‘well intentioned seekers’ who often pretend to be ‘finders’.
I am just throwing in a red herring. With those who truly have recognized their true nature there is an obvious ease of being and an absense of ‘mind games’.
‘When’ are you going to get down to tin tacks? If not NOW – then ‘When’?

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milton says:

Thanks Bill. Helpful comment.

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Ralph says:

Maybe these ‘well intentioned seekers’ are not pretending to be ‘finders’ but instead are not satisfied with just the pointers alone and perhaps because of their true intentions and honesty need something more such as an ‘inward looking’ and see why they still suffer and are not free.

To those that claim to have recognized their true nature , I ask :
Are you free from suffering ? and please enough pointers, instead speak from your direct experience and then maybe it will be heard. I mean afterall you are me and I am you …. Just Onesness expressing itself.

……… and now Gilbert will answer by saying this is all rubbish.

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gilbert says:

From an email reply (of mine) on these points above:
The mind is habit…….it is a kind of self-protection machine – and it serves well to prolong the life of the organism. Nothing wrong in that ‘automatic process’ if it is understood for what it is.
The problem is we are not ‘the machine’.
That mechanical action MUST be SEEN for what it is.
It is not about the right concept arising…..or ticking all the boxes correctly.
It is all about NON-Conceptual Awareness…………and THAT cannot be tampered with by the mind…..the mind APPEARS in it…………and so all the mechanics of the mind are useless because they only move upon the waters – they are not ‘the water’.
As Bob Adamson pointed out to me ‘some time ago’, something like this: The reflections in the mirror are not the mirror but they cannot be separated from the mirror. Awareness is obvious just like a mirror is obvious – but we focus on the reflections and even though we are constantly SEEING nothing but the mirror, we are attracted to the reflections and take them to be real. We take the ‘me’ to be ‘what I am’. And that ‘me’ is a story. Take a look at a mirror and see what I am ‘pointing at’. You can’t see the mirror for the reflections – but go up close. You are seeing nothing but the mirror, which contains the reflections. None of the reflections have any independence from the mirror. The reflections are there because of the mirror. This analogy applies most well with awareness – except the mirror needs something ‘outside’ of it to reflect. With awareness, everything is contained in that mirror like awareness.
Now ‘you’ may exempt ‘yourself’ from this equation and ‘think’ it does not apply to ‘you’. Interesting, isn’t it.
Which ‘thought’ are you? This present one or the next?
Are you a thought at all? ‘Who’ is attached to this flow of conceptualization? Maybe you prefer the wishy washy guru prattle that makes you feel all spiritual and good – for awhile, until the story of me kicks in full bore again. An endless path that is.
What do you imagine that you will gain from all this interest in Non Duality?
Pointless. Or is it?
The revelation is this: – You ARE THAT non dual ONE without a second.
That is not merely a concept for the mind to play with.
Leave the puzzle alone and BE.
But no, the mind just keeps pushing itself back in and it will do so, so long as you do not get a good look at what the ‘me’ is.
It is what you ‘think’ you are – an image.
Everyone keeps searching, seeking the answer in concepts and ideas. The blindingly obvious is far too subtle for an approach with the mind. Most seem to refuse to ‘turn around’ and SEE what they are. That clear empty space-like awareness is not a void, dark and spooky. It is what you are and the courage to SEE and recognize ‘what I am’ can only come from that space-like awareness. The ‘fear’ that spooks everyone is nothing but a fixation with ‘me’ – and that investment is a fraudulent investment – there are no two ways about it.

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gilbert says:

Yes, in fact there isn’t anything that would not be included in that list of ‘things’. The name of something is not it, the object. You can dissect an Elephant into tiny bits, individual cells even and nowhere will you find the label ‘Elephant’ or ‘made by SONY’. All phenomena are spontaneously appearing without words attached. If you examine the written word closely it ‘turns into’ ink on paper, paint on word (or whatever). Look closer, the word disappears and ‘turns into’ odd shapes that have no meaning. Closer still and it changes into a terrain of textures and fibers. At no point did any word turn into anything other than what it is. The spoken word is vibration, sound and the objects are also vibrations appearing as matter.
(An old story) The Walls of Jericho came tumbling down due to the trumpets, vibrations of sound, that corresponded to the harmonics of the matter, which the walls were made of.
A violin can break a wine glass…etc.

The word on closer examination changes its nature – the meaning disappears – because it, the meaning, was never there in the first instance.
Words are all learned and projected by the mind onto phenomena. Because we can name something, we think we understand what it is.
In actual fact all things are equal to space. Energy appearing as patterns – One Giant Fractal Pattern and that includes that body and mind.
No Thing is not the absence of ‘things’ – all things are no thing.

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Mike in SF says:

Looking forward to the next program Gilbert/Areti and also to the new Advaita incarnation!

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christine says:

i keep coming back to this attractive coffeehouse for another piece of cake.
i taste the chocolate, savor the fruit, i lick the honey, i drink the nectar.
every cell in my body is nourished and rejoices with delight.
digestion happens, and the words are flushed -
and every time i go and check, i have been resurrected again.
it is so miraculous, so wunderbar, í’m resurrected every time.
and even if i go and spoil my speck-less white soul with black ink and am flushed-
by myself, of course, there is no other – i´m resurrected.

god´s child in god´s lap, as Jesus would put it.
woman sitting in chair, as my Californian granny Katie would say.

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Ralph says:

…. and yet for most the ‘suffering separate self’ is still there….. why ?

Perhaps in addition to these great ‘pointers’ an ‘inward looking’ may help to find out why. They may be ‘appearances’ but damn do they seem real… don’t you agree ?

Maybe one should find out why the ‘stuckness’ is still there, if of course it is still there ?

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gilbert says:

It persists because it is believed in. Take away the belief and it vanishes – or get a good look at it and then it is naturally impossible to believe in it.
It SEEMS real. How is that assessment made ‘It seems’? Surely there is a knowing behind that ‘seems’ which undermines all that ‘seems’. But ‘we’ do not give that pure knowing a chance to come to fruition. The habit of mind is just so mechanical and so woven with the believed in entity and ‘we’ pardon ourselves and ‘believe’ that ‘we’ can’t do anything about it. ‘Who’ has a problem?
What you truly are is that infinite intelligence behind or within all things. It balances the salt percentage in ‘The Ocean’. You can’t fight it. You can only be it. In taking oneself to be the mechanical habits just because there ‘seems’ to be some security in them, that is the core belief that keeps the wheel turning in its old groove. Go to the axis of your being and drop the identity fixation – SEE what IS.
You say the great pointers don’t work for ‘you’ and make a fuss about the stuck-ness and add a ‘Maybe’. It is all the same ‘stuff’.
If you don’t know, then do not assume to advise others, we have enough gurus to last this new century and most of them speak from a deep identification with ‘me’ – a very special ‘me’. We don’t need another one.
‘Who’ is offended?

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milton says:

Pointers can’t make us see, but at least they can keep us from looking in the wrong direction for something that is not there. For me, the pointers save me from pursuing dead ends, for which I am grateful. Unfortunately, possibly not unlike Ralph, I experience the the illusory bondage as all too real. What is obvious for those already liberated might not qualify as obvious for those still chained and bowed. Your pointing to the bird in the tree may not allow me to see it until my vision is sufficiently clear.

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gilbert says:

Yes…………Seeing is Seeing. There is no making anyone See.
“Look at the bird…..look at the bird”.
The enthusiastic parent ‘robs’ the child of the moment of (self) discovery.
The richness of discovering the bird, without being directed to see it…or in being told that it is there in the distant tree and a finger pointing in the general direction…..
Without all those ‘conditions’ the naked discovery is less burdened by labels and so-called associated ‘conditions’ of discovery.
Is it so important that the child see the bird ‘this instant’? Who is overly excited and wants to share the excitement with the child? The child may feel so anxious about the urgency of seeing ‘the bird’, the anxiety simply disturbs the ‘looking’ so much, that no focus can take place.
The obvious actually needs no pointing. ‘We’ actually ignore what is so obvious simply because ‘we’ have ‘gone’ so much with the thought patterns, which are old and habitual – so habitual, ‘we’ think that the thinking and its thinker are reality alone.
Whatever happens there, ‘see the bird or no see the bird’, the bird can see ‘you’. Seeing is happening. The content of the seeing, the ‘seen’, the impressions and the proliferation of associative thoughts that spring up from a ‘moment of seeing’ and the belief in being a ‘seer’ – is NOT the pure function of Seeing. This not so subtle point may need to be discriminated fresh and new. Actually this ‘potential discrimination’ (being spoken of) may well not even ‘mean’ anything to you and the very mention of it is just a mind puzzle for ‘you’.
True, often when speaking of such ‘things’ one (or I) may feel like a madman, since it appears that no one else around seems to be able to SEE or KNOW anything but what their imagination tells them. Of course such judgments must be biased ‘mind stuff’ and that stuff is always teaming with relativity.
The basic ‘problem’ is that there is no problem.
The Relative is simply an expression of the Absolute. As soon as you ‘pick’ a reference point in the relativity, then it is instantly the Absolute (relatively speaking?). Oddly enough there may be only a handful of so-called ‘people’ who know what I am pointing out here. That is a statement full of relativity (by the way, what statement isn’t?).
Let’s say that the closer the mind cames back to the immediate and true nature of mind, so the clearer the intelligence is – less interfered with by the notion and belief in ‘time’.
Why am I writing this? Who will understand what I am ‘talking about’?
Basically it is all entertainment, since the absolute profundity of your own existence has not stopped your mind from wandering like a lost dervish.
The ‘open view’ is totally available – and everyone ignores it or so it ‘seems’.
Who are these ‘others’? Do they not appear in the SEEING?
And ‘who’ is this ‘SEER’?
Start right there.

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milton says:

I have noticed a sense of expansion of awareness when encountering certain teachings and sense of contraction when the ego tries to assimilate insights or experiences into a fortress against uncertainty, or tries to hold on to the expansion. Say more on how can words be used effectively to release bindings? Is this like a thorn being used to remove the thorn? Whether appearance is reality or a dream or nothing at all, we would have to agree that everything is, nothing is separate, and it seems to just happen in a way that is far beyond the grasp of our concepts, images, etc. but does seem to be accessible to direct experience. I think that most of us want to know “this” but the ignoring is so habitual, and so confirmed by others, that it seems to take a shock of some kind to break the spell, or trance. Someone hypnotized can easily be made to totally ignore or mistake their immediate environment for something else. It won’t do much good to tell a hypnotized subject repeatedly to look at the bird in the tree if he sees the tree as a refrigerator. We have to wake up before the obvious is the obvious. We are not intentionally being obtuse, for the most part anyway. We know something is amiss, we know we can’t “do” anything about it, so we flounder around making things worse sometimes. What a predicament (and of course the predicament is illusory carefully crafted by none other than ourselves). Seems like a slippery slope sometimes. Thanks for the pitons.

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gilbert says:

“We have to wake up before the obvious is the obvious.” Is that true? Surely NOT. But what a mind twister to wrap your belief system around.
There is an example, a quote from ‘you’ that shows how words bind us, even when the blazingly obvious is self-evident.
Are you asleep? Are you not awake right now?
Of course wakefulness is there. Without it nothing would appear at all. The No Thing would just be emptiness with nothing to appear in the seeing.
The mental constructs that bind ‘us’ can be dismantled by using the words that are pointed out to us. The ‘pointer’ is usually words. They register on awareness. The potency of those words, via the ‘truth’ they point at, exposes the falsehood of beliefs. In one instant it is obvious that THIS immediate experiencing is NOT a concept. What ‘was’ believed in is a concept with possible past experiences associated with it. The living presence is infinitely more potent that the past memories or the future anticipations. But the mind will rarely stop its proliferations so this obviousness is missed. But what is mind apart from thoughts, images and memories etc, arising in this immediacy?
Some ‘teachers’ make a fuss about ‘your direct experience’ when actually there is nothing happening that does not belong to this direct and immediate experiencing. To postulate something ‘outside’ of this, is simply a postulation appearing in THIS direct experiencing NOW. Yes this may seem to be a subtle point but it isn’t all that subtle – it is blazingly obvious. The problem is that ‘we’ try to use the mind to fabricate some understanding and understanding is NOT in the mind.
We look in the wrong places. Even though this is pointed out over and over, ‘people’ gravitate back into the mind stuff, believing that that ‘I’ or ‘me’ is going to acquire some new understanding or ‘become’ something better than what already is. There is NO new understanding and there is NO final understanding. Understanding is wordless, timeless and unchanging – even though the patterns that play upon its surface are forever changing.
The same equation applies to everything. Recognize this fundamental pattern in yourself – empty space and content appearing – and the ‘journey’ vanishes in the blink of an eye.
There is no transaction necessary to open to this understanding. No guru can actually give it to you – and the ones who promise such nonsense have not got a clue about this understanding – all they have is ‘old concepts and dualistic notions’. Thus they are trapped into their own game – or so it seems. There is truly no one trapped in anything – except the appearance of such. Where are you SEEING from?
Is there anything there that is not an appearance? Go back, back, back till there is ‘no going back further’ – recognize that you are actually not going back at all – the mind is simply creating reference points about ‘back and forward, up and down’ etc. (What you truly are has no location)
What you truly are never moves and yet movement takes place. Infinite motion is infinite stillness.
As Nisargadatta says: “If you stay here and listen to my words, they will rob you of everything” or very similar words to those. This is what needs to happen. We must be robbed of what we believe we are – so that what we truly are (that remains indescribable) can reveal itself without a single doubt to stand in the view or way. Tasting THAT is all that is needed. We ‘knew’ THIS before words were learned, before we started to believe in being separate.
Make that your goal – orientate yourself to THAT and it is bound to be a ‘short trip’. It all happens in THIS Instant – What I call The First Instant. There is only ONE.
‘You’ cannot make it happen. It is actually already happening – just stop ignoring it. The movement is KNOWING.
It is amazing how these things can be so glaringly pointed out in a thousand ways and still it slips ‘right over their heads’. I think that is why Nisargadatta says: “Be earnest”. If every cell in your body is aligned with this inquiry into ‘what I am’ then ALL of the senses are registering clearly and cleanly upon that NAKED Awareness.
How could anyone miss it under such conditions? We don’t have to wait until the hangman slips the noose over our heads to get ‘deadly earnest’.
When we get truly ‘hungry’ for what is true, then what is true reveals itself as I AM THAT.
If we are just playing mind games and trying to hang onto ‘who I think I am’ then it remains as a mind game. So be it.

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suki says:

Infinite permutations of expressions will abound and be expressed or not!
when genuine “RE-COGNITION” and “SEEING” happens!

What you “ARE” is wordless!

Pure joy and delight in reading Gilbert’s and Bill’s pointers:)

One for All,

All for One~

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billtys says:

There is an awesomeness about what is being pointed to. There is mystery and quiet gratitude when an investigation arises and seeing is understood in the same instant as the investigation arising. The investigation is the seeing.

An “I” may arise…but so what? Let the attention go there…does it really matter? The content is infinitely diverse and why not celebrate.

In fact, if I am doing nothing, then all the content is the patterning of the seeing. The rising investigation and the “I” appearing and the analysis that follows and the endless concepts that arise is also the seeing. Everything is the seeing.

See that… then nothing matters…nothing changes… nothing to learn…nothing to do. You are That… and enjoy it while you can.

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kale says:

In seeing the falseness of this person again and again again, the beliefs previously held begin to fall away automatically. Entering into samadhi, is just another notion arising in this…who is going to enter where? It’s just a maze of thoughts arising spontaneously. The “I” that has high hopes of getting “it” is just another thought. Look at this “I” again and again and again and see what remains…

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gilbert says:

YES….SEEING is happening. There is only ONE seeing. It contains everything. No Higher or lower seeing…..no front or back. The X-Y-Z ‘point’ of departure is truly emptiness.
Where are you seeing from? From that zero point – zero degrees of separation.
Radical pointing – The Meeting point of x-y-z is ‘appearing’ as THIS – ‘right here right now’……which is everywhere…..every time…….it is emptiness….yet all space and all duration are contained in IT and it isn’t even an ‘it’.
All movement is seemingly away from THIS……..but nothing ever comes or goes………SEEING is ceaselessly presence…
All is nothing but presence – which may appear as an oscillating vibration flip between presence and absence……….being and non being.
The one that appears as understanding it, appears and disappears……………………..
By the ‘power’ of ‘conscious negation’ ‘one’ can ‘return’ to Zero degrees of separation……..or so it appears to be so………….the return journey is the dissolution of the journey and the pattern ‘making the journey’.
This Zero dimensions is never manifested……………the HUM of the universe emerges from nothing as AUM and returns to nothing as OM.
The ancients knew this ‘principle’. It is all written down for those who are able to recognize it. It is in all the traditions…….even the Parables and the Fairy tales.
Traces of the ‘map’ seemingly woven into the fabric of the universe………
Are you awake? Obviously you are. Yes…’ordinary’ is the hiding place of the most profound. As our dear departed professor of E=mc2 says “The miraculous is to be found in the mundane”. What you have overlooked ‘all this time’ is blazingly obvious.
But it is not to be grasped with a concept. When the whole presence of being is vibrantly glowing….the bullshit story of me dissolves into emptiness.
A ghost of it may re-appear…..but it has been seen through…so ‘belief’ is rendered as impotency. What more do you want?

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Barry O. says:

I can only imagine this question won’t get very far on this site…

But have any of you ever experienced, or listened to a trusted source speaking about, a so-called Near Death Experience (NDE)?

I just kinda get the feeling you folks are saying we are no different than plant life, for instance — other than humans possess the capacity of “thought”?

When the “physical” body dies, yes, intelligence carries out the decomposition of the body, but consciousness — the sense I AM — does carry on.

To say there is no “I” seems silly… Of course “ego,” if that’s what you’re saying “I” is, is totally unnecessary.

Dunno, but there’s just quite a few comments on here seemingly attempting to denote an excited “getting of IT” that smacks of, well, silliness.

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gilbert says:

Barry and NDE: The intelligence that makes all of this possible is not an experience – it is always and ever immediate experiencing. ‘You’ as that believed in ‘entity’ can’t get any closer to it than AS a thought. However with or without that belief of being an ‘entity’ you ARE that intelligence. It is sometimes called consciousness or conscious presence. Experiences belong to the mind and the ‘me’. The experiences are abstract or detailed descriptions of ‘events’ that have usually come and gone. The experiencing is wordless and forever immediate. ‘I’, ‘me’ and ‘ego’ are all names and are the same ‘thing’. In essence they are also ‘no thing’ and in appearance they are thoughts, which are also ephemeral appearances – they all come and go. What remains when they disappear? THAT which cognizes all the activities, no ‘matter’ what they are, is not a ‘thing’, never was and never will be a ‘thing’.
If this is a problem for ‘you’ – then look at that conflict or dis-ease and recognize the bias in mind.
As for a trusted source of NDE – it is all experiences – they all come and go. ‘Who’ trusts in what and what is the reference point?
That which is experiencing is ceaselessly present. How come it is not recognized totally and utterly known? Is it because we take ourselves to be a ‘person’?
That pure intelligence is what you are – not the form that appears to be. We call it ‘I’ yet it is not a word – it is space-like awareness. The heart beats in it, the world appears in it. It is not an ‘it’.
It may seem silly from a particular point of view – but examine that reference point and see if you can find the discriminator. That discriminator is intelligence appearing as a pattern in the mind. We call it ‘mind’ but even that is merely a label. See if you can find a ‘mind’. It is extremely interesting and far from anything ‘silly’ – yet few are truly interested to KNOW what they are.

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gilbert says:

Indeed. The clear naked presence is not a thought. The words ‘I am’ are not the wordless ‘I am’ – the Naked Being. This discrimination is all that one needs – everything else follows naturally on from this discrimination.

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