Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
27. In the Name of your God *****
Posted on 02.02.09 3:10PM under Gilbert Schultz, Podcast
In this program Areti interviews Gilbert. Plus a section of the Hsin-hsin Ming text read by Ram Dass.
Gilbert is available for Skype calls for those who resonate with what is being pointed out. Email him for details.
“The ones who say they know it – are the ones who will impose it on you” – from the lyrics of the first and last song on this program – a song by The Klezmatics – there is a link to one of their videos on their name.
Music includes – The Klezmatics (I ain’t afraid), The Beatles, Cat Stevens, Michael O’Suilleabhain (Piano piece), Lothlorien (Australian Band), Bob Dylan, Jethro Tull, Al Stewart, Colorblind James Experience.
Ram Dass reads the Hsin-hsin Ming (part two) – Verses on the Faith-Mind – By Seng-ts’an, Third Chinese Patriarch of Chan (Zen) – a translation into English by Richard Clarke.
Yes it is all FREE. For those who wish to donate, a newly introduced Donation Tab appears on this site – top of front page (very small icon) near the contact icon and another at the bottom left hand side of comment pages. If you truly appreciate this site, please feel free to support the continuation of the Urban Guru Cafe. It is a non-profit project. Those who do donate ensure that these programs continue, for themselves, and for everyone. All inclusive is the nature of Non Duality.
Posted by gilbert on 02.02.09 6:17 pm
I put the ancient text, part two, on the end for those who found value in part one.
Ram Dass does a good reading of it in my estimations. Enjoy.
Posted by milton on 02.03.09 4:47 am
Gilbert: love the hsin-hsin. thanks for the new podcast. Is there such a thing as stabilizing in present awareness (more or less) such that ego intrusions such as doubts, fears, longings, preferences etc. lose the power to entangle, bind, and seemingly limit awareness? It seems true that as soon as preferences arise, “heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.”
Posted by nathan on 02.03.09 4:50 am
a really nice treat upon return from the ‘real’ mountains!
knowledge is by definition limited…it can be accumulated endlessly, there is an infinite well of objects of which to gather knowledge….but what are these objects?
i was watching a program recently on the search for the higg’s boson(the particle it is theorized, which turns energy into matter)…one of the physicists said…”we are learning more and more about less and less, pretty soon we’ll know everything about nothing!”
the immediate ‘knowing’ presence that you are is not objective knowledge and it is not a product of thought (comparative, fractional, in time)
ALL appearances are held in equanimity…
no-thing would exist if you were not…all gurus saints saviors, and gods and devils appear in “this”
and hey…it’s nothing personal!
Posted by munni on 02.03.09 5:20 am
Thank you, Gilbert, for yet another lovely production, another pointing right back to the answer/solution to all questions: cooking the “me” in the fire of knowledge.
If your knowledge of fire has been turned
to certainty by words alone,
then seek to be cooked by the fire itself.
Don’t abide in borrowed certainty.
There is no real certainty until you burn;
if you wish for this, sit down in the fire.
– Rumi
Posted by Sara on 02.03.09 8:42 am
could someone who knows they are the SEEING remain depressed, sad & have no joy?
Posted by gilbert on 02.03.09 9:09 am
There is no one that knows that they are the SEEING – there is only SEEING.
It is the empty space that knows the content of space – the KNOWING is not in the patterns that appear.
The SEEING is not in the microscope, the spectacles – that is obvious.
The SEEING is not in the eyes either.
The SEEING is not in the head.
The SEEING is not in the brain.
The SEEING is not in the idea of ME.
Where does this pure SEEING coagulate into a ‘form’?
If it does, wouldn’t that be the most obvious ‘thing’ of all things?
But there isn’t any THING that is the SEEING – EVERYTHING is OBVIOUSLY appearing within the SEEING.
There is no one that knows this – “those that say they know it – are the ones who will impose it (their knowledge) on you”
The external guru is just a lamp holder – pointing at what needs to be seen.
Most of them are excited about ‘who they think they are’ and they want ‘you’ to worship that ‘image’ of ME in them – just to relieve their most inner DOUBTS.
But it never works and their hunger eventually eats them up. They call it LOVE. It is their own shroud of darkness (belief) that they are so terrified of.
‘They’ get very angry if someone ‘pokes’ them in the ‘me’. It is all self-centered nonsense – all of it – including their famous love.
The ‘particle’ is not located in space – the wave is not located in space or time.
The quark is not located in space or time. Quantum Physics is still exploring this – trying to go beyond the limitations of the instruments of the experiment.
These ‘scientists’ seem not to realize that what they are themselves is ‘beyond all matter’ and that the SEEING (knowing) is already present where ever they ‘look’ or ‘go’. It is ‘as though’ it (seeing) waits for ‘them’ to ‘arrive’ – ‘then’ it reveals whatever is seemingly there to observe. How much of what we think we SEE is actually what ‘we’ want to see – what we are projecting onto seemingly separate phenomena. It is ALL patterns within patterns.
It is ALL a movement of energy – patterns are ‘created’ and an attachment to this ‘personal pattern’ draws the believed in ‘entity’ into the play of energy. It is never questioned usually.
All I am saying is take a look at this ‘me’.
Has anyone ever found a REAL boundary to space or time with a microscope or telescope?
It is all an appearance in the SEEING. Some give it a name, a name that points directly at the seeing essence: ‘space-like awareness’.
The essence of the ‘seer’ is SEEING. The essence of the ‘seen’ is SEEING. No two.
The ‘knower’ is an ephemeral appearance – it is the essence of SEEING and nothing more than THAT.
The ‘known’ is the same.
These ‘things’, as all things, appear in equanimity.
SEE what happens to depression if you remove the story – remove the belief in the story.
There is no one that is depressed – but to KNOW this ‘you’ (the one you believe you are) must enter into the appearance of depression – expand it – exaggerate it until the SEEING passes between (simply reveals) the apparent ‘particles of depression’ – then the KNOWING reveals that it is untouched – nothing touches it – YOU ARE this LIVING INTELLIGENCE which has no place or time and no DEATH.
ONE without a second.
There is no duality in non duality.
‘I’, Gilbert, appearing as this knowing, cannot convince anyone about anything. All I can do is point. How many are willing to SEE?
It is an ‘I’, a ‘me’ that gets abused and ridiculed or depressed.
It is an ‘I’ that accuses another ‘I’ of having no love.
The ‘me’ is a label.
This ME is SEEMINGLY inflated with ‘the energy of belief’ and ‘then’ this phantom ‘creates’ all the dramas of life. There is no ‘doer’ in it.
‘We’ humans think we are so important. ‘We’ want to control nature, the weather and all things but ‘we’ do not even know what we are.
If you were observing mankind from a nearby planet through a very powerful telescope or even a city from a mountain top – all the drama, the murders and madness, the traffic jams, the sex, drugs and rock and roll, plus all the personal clashes would not even register. Thousand upon thousands of ‘little boxes on the hillside’, houses (“In my Fathers House there are many mansions”) and in each ‘house made of ticky tacky’ there is a social drama going on, a story playing itself out.
‘I – me – mine’ – OWNERSHIP.
A little distance brings a fresh view. Go into the ‘scene’ with a microscope and another fresh view appears.
Know what you are – first and foremost – then see if there is any need of judgment or even belief in a ‘me’ that could judge anything.
The measurement of anything needs at least two data points.
This ‘process’ is the ‘creation’ of duality where there is no duality.
It is all appearing in the mind essence – ‘creating a world that has no true existence’.
It all appears to BE – appearing in TIME.
You are timeless.
You cannot negate that Being-ness that you ARE.
Start your investigation right there- with the only fact that you are absolutely certain of.
Then SEE if you NEED any of these ‘attachments’ that weigh you down.
NOW watch the mind – the ‘YES BUT……..”
Posted by Ulrik on 02.04.09 12:42 am
This appearance of me getting it, is just anotther appearance. No one has ever gotten anything. Its all appearing in the seeing/knowing. There is nothing to get and nothing to hold on to. Anything is an appearance in that wich cant be known, including me. So any appearance is that seeing/knowing, its all that and this is all there is. No where to go, nothing to search for, this is it! The experience of enjoyment might happen, the experience of sadness might happen, anything might happen and you can not do anything about it. It just is as it is. Things happen for no reason for no one. It just is. Full stop. Breathing is happening, the heart is beating, eyes reading. Can you find something to hold on to? Can you stop the search? Has anyone, by there “will power”, managed to hold on to any story of what is? No story can ever explain this moment, this awareness appearing as everything. Its all intelligence beyond the mind knowing intelligence appearance, and yet containing it.
Posted by milton on 02.04.09 1:40 am
This little ‘me’ that gets abused and ridiculed or depressed seems so clever, slippery, elusive, and resilient. It seems to wait in the wings, at times all but dispelled, only to appear again, uninvited, a persona non grata, strutting across the stage in the full regalia of “me-ness,” buoyed by pettiness and grandiosity, scoffing sardonically at my experience of non-duality or seeing. Such drama!
Posted by gilbert on 02.04.09 2:08 am
Drop the story of ME and SEE – BE – KNOW ‘what is’.
These dramas only ‘fatten up’ because they are believed in – they are referred constantly to the ‘me’ which is the reference point that things are judged from – in the so called mind. The story of ‘me’ has a whole library of past experiences to draw upon and dump on this immediacy.
Then ‘we’ call this story ‘reality’ and suffer – but it is the ‘me’ that suffers and it is the story about suffering that is painful. The ‘me’ squirms and wriggles to be rid of the suffering – but it is the story of ‘me’ that is the ’cause’ of it all.
I cannot throw any light on it. All I can do is ‘point’ – with the appropriate words and with a clear and direct intention – with NO expectation of any ‘return’ or ‘payment’.
It is the light of your own KNOWING that is necessary. This light is not from the mind of memory – it is the pure essence of empty mind that shines clearly. The mind is like the eyeball – clear and empty. Thoughts pass through ‘the mind’ and not one has ever lodged itself in it – just like nothing that has appeared in the seeing has ever lodged itself in the eyeball or the seeing.
The SEEING is untouched by the content.
The ‘seer’ is a thought – “I see” and the ‘I’ cannot SEE at all – it is just a word.
So BE the seeing and nothing other than the seeing.
Everything will unfold naturally without the ‘me’ being ‘center stage’.
All the thoughts may be similar as ‘before’ but they will not catch upon a self-center, so they will float through this ‘space-like awareness’ without incident.
This will remain theoretical so long as the ‘me’ is indulged in.
One needs to SEE the ‘me’ for what it is.
I have no idea where you are on this Globe – yes YOU – but I can assure you that there is a place of abiding right there which is empty of the drama of life.
Everything appears in THAT. Everything also disappears in THAT.
The mind says “Yes BUT……..etc”
The mind is TIME.
What you truly are is timeless.
Why exchange THIS clear and immaculate presence of pure KNOWING for stories about the past, present and future? Drop them and SEE what happens.
Is there any other way?
Reality IS.
What you BELIEVE you are is NOT.
Why trade reality for a fictional drama about ‘me’?
SEE if it has any substance – you can’t take anyone else’s word for it.
You MUST SEE IT for ‘yourself’. Then in seeing the truth of it – no one can EVER convince you that what ‘you’ KNOW is wrong.
You KNOW that you ARE – that is not a belief – it is KNOWING.
Posted by Dan on 02.04.09 3:22 am
Hey milton,
Perhaps the problem is that the little me is trying to be eradicated? Maybe it just needs attention and acceptance. Having that acceptance of it can allow you to see what it really is, and idea. And that’s all it’s ever been!
Perhaps you don’t actually need to try to drop the idea of me (just another way of talking about it mind you). Perhaps you just need to be with it gently, and then it can be allowed and seen for what it really is…harmless…safe…part of you but not limiting you.
After all, relativity is always there. It’s 100% absolute AND 100% relative at each point. Trying to negate part of it is a resistance. And having to spend all that energy trying to resist part of what is makes it real difficult to see the lack of separation of all things….
What do you think?
Posted by Mike in SF on 02.04.09 4:32 am
I’m loving your pointers Gilbert, even better than the ones in your book.
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.04.09 6:15 am
Part of me fears what you say is as it is and part of me is overwhelmingly relieved that it might just be true. Both are a me (person) which you say doesn’t exsist and is only a story….
You do realise this stuff is far out don’t you?
I don’t know why I’m here at this website just can’t stop checking it out!
Did you guys (Gilbert) start out on acid or lsd or some mind altering substance to come to this conclusion?
Peace,
Posted by gilbert on 02.04.09 8:50 am
The belief in ‘me’ is far more distorting than ‘LSD’ – it turns everything upside down and inside out. In the ‘seeing through’ of it it is like coming off some long term drug induced state – but it is all natural seeing and being. Drugs may seem to be good initially only because they alter the brains habitual functioning – ‘allowing’ a different perception to take place. If things begin to be questioned – (rather than an addiction to a drug) well and good. When we start to question our beliefs, they fall apart.
‘We’ keep coming back to visit because something resonates in our being – something is recognized. ‘I’, Gilbert, am simply sharing the most profound NEWS that there is – it will never be on the 6 o’clock News Broadcast or on the front page of the Newspaper. To the ‘worldly ways of being’ this radical news is a threat – just like the truth is a threat to the believed in ‘me’. It, the ‘me’, has no power at all – but it does seem to have enough gumption to avoid the truth where ever it seems to ‘pop up’.
The ‘death of the me’ is the liberation of our true nature – which, by the way, has never been bound by anything at all. It is ALL a fiction.
‘PERHAPS’ and ‘MAYBE’ are not good ‘pointers’.
There is no little ‘me’ or big ‘ME’ – WHERE is such a ‘measurement’ made and WHO is this one who is making it……..who is just going to gently be with the ‘me’ or allow it to be seen for what it is? Have a good look at this pattern of thought that is expressed – with a smiley face thrown in for good measure…and a ‘What do you think?’
There is no ‘you’ that thinks. You may believe that ‘you’ choose your thoughts, like some shopper in a Walmart Store but take a closer look – that belief is a mirage – apparently being held by a mirage, ‘Me’ and it all appears in the SEEING. It is all dualistic nonsense.
There is only one SEEING happening. Now are you the SEEING or have you borrowed the seeing from somewhere or someone else? Of course not.
What you are is the KNOWING – the SEEING – not two – two aspects of the ONE.
What the mind translates is just patterns appearing – just like everything else – they appear and disappear. Do you appear and disappear? NO.
You are always invisible – stable and unchanging. Not the ‘you’ of BELIEF – that is the mirage. ‘You’ is just a word – the SEEING is the actuality – the first instant of knowing – and THIS first and ONLY instant is the ONLY INSTANT there IS.
WHO is asleep? WHO is awake? WHO wants to know?
‘WHO’ is psychology – words appearing – they have no substance.
How many ‘pointers’ are needed?
ONLY ONE – the one that delivers the message – the one that dissolves the belief in separation. The rest are just entertainment.
Follow the relief you speak of – it is not a ‘me’ – it is the initial ‘stage’ of the dissolution of the ‘bondage of self’.
The courage to follow that is the actuality of what you are.
That relief is like the pure light of Heaven shining through the gates of Hell. What are you waiting for?
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.04.09 9:30 am
you said .. ‘Me’ and it all appears in the SEEING. It is all dualistic nonsense.
I don’t understrand how you function each day, thinking everything is nonsense, why do you bother getting up everyday and going to work or whatever you do. Why even be alive.. it seems so useless if you really think it all just happening and it’s all just nonsense..what’s the use…I’m just saying.
Posted by Dan on 02.04.09 9:55 am
MIRANDA -
I don’t know if this will be helpful, but here’s a shot a describing the experience:
The sense of “person-ness” when you think “me” never goes away, but the idea of a SEPARATE person is discovered to ultimately just be an idea.
This isn’t anything other than a recognition of what is already going on, but that recognition results in a shift in basic functioning that is a bit hard to describe.
Obviously something about this site resonates with you. So try this: try noticing your thoughts, without necessarily having to believe them or take credit for them. Just notice them. “I wonder what my next thought will be…?” Let the thoughts, the emotions, the feelings drift by without having to control them or own them or do anything about them. It’s just a noticing of them…noticing what they are, what they think….
This allows you to be in the space where the focus is on the perceiver. Usually there is a tendency to just lump the thoughts and the perceiver together, and this is where all ideas of limitation and suffering come from. This provides a sense of peace, of freedom, and is a window into what living this reality is like, even if just a partial look, and even if just for a moment.
Perhaps then what is said here won’t seem quite so abstract, because you’ll know the basic fundamental experience that is being recognized….
What do you think?
Posted by gilbert on 02.04.09 10:32 am
Read it again. I am not saying that LIFE is nonsense. The realm of belief is nonsense.
The ‘me’ is not the pure functioning of the senses – seeing – hearing – tasting – touching – thinking – or intuition. It is a story – only a story and a story is about TIME.
Right NOW in the immediacy there is no story – only the pure functioning.
The pure functioning does not need a story to BE.
What you truly ARE does NOT need a story of ME to BE.
The mind seemingly wants a USEFUL occupation so that the believed in ‘entity’ can remain ‘in control’ – but it is a mirage. There is no controller, doer or thinker, seer or entity. But this MUST be SEEN without a story of being a ‘seer’.
In seeing through the concept of ME – life goes on just the same as ‘it did’………except for the fact that the drama of attachment to ME is no longer there – so things appear to flow more easily – there is no sufferer and no story about someone suffering….AND there is no story about being an enlightened being either – Gurus take note.
‘We’ believe that in the automatic naming of ‘things’ and ‘events’ we then understand what they are – but that has happened is objects have been labeled. So What?
This fiction of ‘me’ is nothing but a story. So if there is no ‘me’, whatever has been going on has not been caused by a ‘me’. The ‘me’ is an add on – an unnecessary add on. Events still happen.
Don’t worry about this – it will only confound the mind and bring murkiness to the mind essence. Relax and SEE.
What is on offer here is the most radical news that there is. The world of worldly affairs will not pay this any attention. It will seemingly disregard it or denigrate those who speak such ‘nonsense’.
In the appearance of ‘things’ there is no expectation that anyone will understand what is on offer – but there is a KNOWING that the offer must be presented – and there is radical evidence that some actually HEAR it – as I did.
I cannot express how ‘my life’ changed radically on hearing this message – it would sound just like so many other ‘gurus and teachers’ and it would imply that ‘I have acquired something’ – something that YOU do not HAVE.
This is not true. “What you seek you already ARE”.
Those words were spoken to me for the first time 9 years ago (in the seeming time line in 2000 a year of great expectations). At first it was not recognized to be true. But something kept ‘me’ coming back for another dose. It seems that ever so gradually it SANK IN.
I can promise you that there is no one here trying to collect seekers.
There is an unswerving intention to be clear and precise = so that those relics of belief in ‘me’, which are rendered passive HERE, can also be rendered passive right there where ‘you appear to be’ – which is also HERE. SEE that truth and be done with the stories of ME. The relative is the absolute but ONLY as the Totality. If the relative stands alone it is the darkest place of all. Let the LIGHT of KNOWING shine upon every ‘thing’ without naming any ‘thing’. SEE the One Essence is this unbound presence – PRE- Sense – Pre-thought – “Prior to Consciousness”(As Nisargadatta expresses it or points it out).
The book called “Gleanings from Nisargadatta” by Mark West, a friend of mine, is available through Bob Adamson’s website. Bob’s book “One Essence expressing and appearing as everything” is also available. Two of my own free e-books are available on my website “Everything is Clear and Obvious” and “The First Instant”. Both of these e-books, are repeatedly reported back to me to, ‘Stop the mind’ and only a page or two can be read in one sitting. Such radical communication can not flourish in a world that ‘appears’ to run on belief.
http://www.shinginthroughthemind.net
This podcast is totally free and the programs are ‘touching’ a growing number ‘out there’. This WAVE is growing – the stats on this site is still climbing. More and more are seeing through the guru game. Thousands can be freed from the erroneous attraction of time bound devotion and the erroneous hope of deliverence that so many teachers promise – while they fleece the pockets of their followers – and live a high life style of self glorification. The job is on going. No guru in his ‘right mind’ will advocate this site because what we are pointing out demolishes his STORY about ME and TIME.
You ‘were’ never bound by anything and there is NO work to be done. Just See.
Know the truth and the truth will set you FREE. Instantly.
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.04.09 11:26 am
Dan, I’m going to start by noticing my thoughts.
Gilbert, I’m checking out the website you suggested and taking time to read and digest what I’ve read.
To say the least – this is Very interesting.
Thanks
Posted by Bob Seal on 02.04.09 11:37 am
Excellent stuff! luv it, luv it.
Urban Guru Cafe Rocks!
Thanks for the podacsts.
Don’t have anything to say.
It’s all just bouncing around in these comments above and the podcasts.
LUV IT!
What do I know!
I just draw free toons when they appear . . . http://advaitatoons.blogspot.com/
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.04.09 12:40 pm
The Fact that you can see change means you are changeless. Change cannot See change. A thought cannot See change because it is always changing. In order to be aware of the thought you have to be greater than the thought, which does not change like the thought, and that is called Awareness.
Posted by gilbert on 02.04.09 1:57 pm
The mind cannot argue with what is true. Any ‘stance’ taken for or against anything at all is just a ‘response’ by no one. Knowing that frees up the expression radically.
Whatever pivotal point the mind whirls around is simply a movement upon the stillness on the invisible axis of being and non being. The WHOLE universe moves upon emptiness.
A scientist will postulate that empty space is MADE of some sort of minute particles.
If ‘he’ explores the place where seeing is happening – a radical revelation ‘happens’.
But – this investigation is to be avoided at all cost – otherwise the idea of who I think I am will vanish into that emptiness. A year or two ago ‘I’ met a prominent Australian ‘Media’ Scientist in a Cafe (media personality, well respected, by the way). Within the passage of three sentences of our first and only conversation, I witnessed steam coming out of his ears – simply because ‘I’ refuted his postulation that space was made of some sort of matter, which he called “Soap, Sand and Suds”. I simply pointed out that no ‘matter’ how small these particles were, they MUST, even logically be suspended in emptiness – and space is No Thing. I took my take away coffee and left him to stew in his own soup, or soap, suds and sand.
A week or two later, I saw him from across the large foyer of the Radio Station Complex where we both worked, he recognized me and glared with an obvious disturbed look about him. I had to laugh – but not too loud. Maybe some sand grit got under his skin.
Posted by suki on 02.04.09 3:08 pm
you cannot argue with truth, or in the ultimate sense your ‘SELF’! for they are one and the same!(NON-DUAL)
argument needs at least two! (DUALITY) which in reality does not exist.
only appearances of this and that ~ on close scrutiny, this is not even that, and that is not even this!
Start with what you ‘ARE’ ‘NOW’!
you can’t stop ‘BEING’, what you are ‘NOW’!
and you can’t ‘BE’ anywhere else but ‘NOW’!
even if the above is questioned? the questioning will be a movement in thought, which takes time and can only happen in the ‘PRESENT’ ‘NOW’!
true attentiveness to the present moment will attest to this!
don’t take my word! truly test this for your self!
suki
Posted by gilbert on 02.04.09 9:55 pm
Not so many brave ones commenting now……….getting too close to the bone?
Posted by billtys on 02.04.09 10:31 pm
There is only seeing.
There is only intelligence.
Very odd and obscure comments are arising in the seeing.
The seeing is patterning these odd comments and they can be attributed to no one.
The seeing contains all without exception. It even contains air, space, silence, nothing and the concept of awareness.
The content is not set apart from the seeing…there is no separation…and there is only seeing.
That is why the search is the problem. You are already That.
Posted by Ste Gunn on 02.05.09 12:43 am
Hi again,
There is a fear here that this naked seeing gives no help for me or the world. Naked seeing has apparently come and gone (been obscured and unobscured) many times and is most noticable when I am talking to someone else, and it scares me. If I look into the eyes of the person talking to me I can clearly see them but there is also the recognition that there is nothing here seeing, I feel naked and must look away to feel me again. I have gone through my life avoding looking people in the eyes at all costs due to this uncomfortable feeling of not knowing what is going on and it becomes difficult to relate to this world of people who seem to ignore or not notice this giant enigma of being. It took Douglas Hardings pointing exercise to reveal that this naked seeing was what these non-dual authors were talking about and I now have a label for it but still now answers or help. If I negate this story as you (Gilbert)suggested in a previous reply then it is seen as just thought and yet this tension remains when I talk to people and I still avoid eye contact and the fear it brings. Oddly there is often a knowing of what I should say to people and my mind often shouts these words to me but I just end up repeating whatever it was I did say over and over until the other person get annoyed or someone else chips in and I’m left feeling confused and frustrated (ok so that’s more story). There is much fear and confusion about past experiences to do with this and they normally end up as mad rants on forums like this one and while there are moments when I seem to revel in the naked seeing there are many more where it is scary. The Hsin-hsin ming has a bit about how with this there is nothing you will not be able to know yet for me it seems I just know less and less.
Sorry for all the nonsense I jusy don’t know what I’m trying to achieve with all this waffle that seems to vanish in naked seeing yet reappear so consistantly.
Posted by milton on 02.05.09 12:54 am
Eternal thanks to the Universal Awareness emanating from the UGC for beating me senseless with repetition of the obvious. I now may understand the following which has afforded a loosening of the illusory chains:
I am indeed the child of a barren woman. Therefore, I don’t need to worry so much about pedigree; whether or not I am of noble or ignoble descent. Whether or not I am enlightened or ignorant no longer matters since there is no “I.” “To live in this realization is to be without anxiety about non-perfection.” Egotistical arisings are now OK, or even welcome, since they only serve to remind me that there is no “I” to be spiritual anyway, and “I” am thankful to have nothing to defend. I don’t even have to worry about being a good nondualist. Nothing to defend is very freeing. Depression is not as threatening since I can see the space between the particles which seems to expand when noticed leaving the depression somewhat dispersed.
Question: I am still having trouble with “I am that.” If I am nothing at all, how can I be something else?
Posted by gilbert on 02.05.09 1:25 am
“I am THAT” may have many meanings – as translated by the mind.
Everything is THAT. That is a chair. That is a dog. That is a bird. That is a house.
If we remove the labels chair, dog, bird and house, what is left?
THAT.
It is the labels that seemingly create ‘objects’ – but where are they, except in the mind?
The labeling of objects is automatic – words that have been learned.
Since there is no center to that being – that you are – and there is no boundary to that presence that you are – so everything is contained in that presence that you are.
There is no separation.
So, I am THAT – applies to everything.
It is the mind that has a concept of separation – it is called ‘me’ and ‘not me’.
See…SEE….if you can find this separation – recognize it is a concept.
In some cultures it is forbidden to look another in the eyes – lest you steal the spirit.
See that the fear is based on memories and thought patterns.
There is an old saying: Face the fear – and that is the death of fear.
Nisargadatta says: “The only thing that can harm you is in your own imagination” or words very close to those.
There is nothing to fear in the true nature of what you are – be that.
I would not advise going on forums where every tom, dick and harry can have a go at being a guru. We have had a few here – but they stick out like dogs nuts – pardon my bluntness.
Posted by Dan on 02.05.09 2:39 am
Bob Seal -
Thanks for posting your advaita comics. I read them and I enjoyed them a lot. Lots of fun…
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.05.09 3:23 am
Last night I decided I had read enough on this website & I would just move on. First thing this morning found myself back here…makes me think ,you might be right, maybe something (someone,or whatever) else is doing my thinking!
I’m laughing at Gilbert’s “stick out like dogs nuts”! I like the bluntness
Also like your cartoons, Bob Seal.
Posted by Ralph on 02.05.09 4:17 am
Has anyone noticed in these posts that every so often between Gilbert’s excellent pointers that he ‘mastered’ very well , you see his ‘egoic self’ come through. This is what needs to be investigated. This is what keeps the separate self ‘solid’ and separate from the whole.
Posted by Sully on 02.05.09 4:41 am
sounds like someone’s “egoic self” might be just a little jealous, you might want to investigate that!
Posted by Chuckie Smog on 02.05.09 6:32 am
Correct,
seems that his place has become Gilbert’s Guru Trip … wait until you hear the interview Areti did with John Greven here at my place … the most incredible UN self-righteous talk ever. I logged on only to see if it was on line yet and saw this tirade of His Holiness Shree Shree Gilbertananda 
) so stay tuned for John Greven … meanwhile have fun! I am… <grinning inside.
RALPH,
So you got a sniff of that egoic self-righteousness. Gilbert being Gilbert!
So what? Oneness is that too. So …. Rocks are hard, water’s wet, birds fly and Gilbert’ Gilbert. Same old same old…..
Posted by Bill Tys on 02.05.09 9:39 am
It is amazing and awesome that all these comments are just arising. There is no one to attribute them too! All is on auto pilot!
Amazingness and awesomeness is arising. The content and the seeing are inseparable.
There is only seeing.
Posted by gilbert on 02.05.09 10:45 am
Ok….so Ralph ‘tinks’ he will bait Gilbert and draw him out into the open so everyone can see that he is a fraud – and see that Ralph is a good fellow, maybe a little mixed up and wonky – but basically good. Alright: Has anyone noticed that even though Ralph’s wall to wall egoic-self is pretty solid, every now and then, he says something ‘wise’.
What’s up Doc, Ralph, feeling a little hemmed in? Did those amazing insights you had fade away into the past? Ralph, if you can find an ego ‘here’ then the only ‘thing’ that could recognize what it is, measure it, is another ego – isn’t that right?
“I have not mastered anything at all” – “I don’t know what will be written down and there is no plan of what to say”. I am surprised myself sometimes over what comes out of this space ‘here’.
It is all words. I have noticed that almost all gurus and teachers carry an air of superiority around with them. Tony Parsons calls it a ‘pink haze’, which is a a very funny way to put it. If you imagine that you will become some squeaky clean being that drips wisdom every second of the day, then you are dreaming.
I can tell you that during my ‘usual day’ as I go about ‘my life’, as I walk through the city, as I ride on a tram, no one recognized ‘me’ or ‘who I am’ – either in this so called person or in themselves. There is no separation.
I have no delusions about who or what I am. That old pattern of ‘me’ is curled up in a corner somewhere having a good old snooze. Where is yours?
Posted by gilbert on 02.05.09 11:26 am
Charlie – “Seems like this place has become Gilbert’s Guru trip”? What about your Blog – if anyone takes the Cake for Guru trips it is YOU dear ONE. Tirade’s are your specialty not mine. Just ‘stirring the pot’. In between grinning, loving seekers, and spitting venom at those same seekers in very colorful language you actually have enough time to sit quietly and listen to someone like John. Amazing. I see you didn’t close down your blog-site – just another tantrum that faded away? Charlie the wanna be guru – tossing back and forth like a cork on the high seas. Now, Charlie, please don’t vent your spleen on this site. Go back to Scott Kiloby for some lovey-dovey chats – or go down to the shopping center and take it out on the staff there, like you usually do.
Just stirring the pot.
Seeing through the ‘me’ does not mean one loses ‘personality’ – but the vitriolic outbursts most usually cease altogether.
Posted by Charlie Kilwallaby on 02.05.09 11:53 am
So clearly we’re imbued with this intelligence presence which requires no thought to maintain the functioning of these physical bodies. Pause a thought, full stop — got it.
But thought can be guided with “will,” can’t it? I mean, an example: let’s say Ralph sodomizes my dog Buster… (but I was really drunk at the time and incapable of stopping him).
When I come to in the morning I read this site where Gilbert asks, “What’s wrong with right now if you don’t think about it?” I’m like, “Yeah, that’s right — this is awesome insight!” However, I then see poor Buster limping into the kitchenette area. A fog begins to lift and I have the vague thoughts/memories of Ralph’s despicable behavior the evening prior.
Yes, at this point I have judged that what Ralph did was wrong (pairs of opposites). I throw the bottle of ibuprofen crashing against the sink and proceed to find and kick Ralph’s arse. I now will never invite Ralph back to my trailer. Buster’s existence is without a doubt better for it.
However, if I were to gleefully go along with this site’s Non Dual platitudes, undue harm would rule the day. Unacceptable. There is individual will that guides our thought processes and behavior, and there’s also an accumulation of these actions which creates “a person.”
If we were to sit around eating donuts (why judge them good or bad?) all day whilst reading this site, planetary evolution would be the worse for it. Wouldn’t it?
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.05.09 12:14 pm
Tonal frequency, identity crashes,
Truth seeps in, opaque flashes.
What began in the heart seduces the mind.
While seeking Nirvana, it’s you that you find.
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.05.09 12:34 pm
Why do you guys, Ralph & Chuckie or Charlie bother to come to this website to criticize Gilbert …why not just ignore this site & him if you think he is so wrong?
Does he go to your website (if you have one) and blast you? Just saying!
What is the “ego self” mentioned in the earlier post? There is no such thing right?
Posted by Ste Gunn on 02.05.09 12:36 pm
I for one am very happy to see a bit of ‘me’ here and there in the one pointing. I remember in one of the Advaita Show podcasts Sailor Bob is asked to read something out and he says something like ‘You read it out I’ll stuff it up if I do it’. It was just magnificent and such a relief that something like that came up for him as it showed me that I didn’t have to be perfect or totally without doubt or worry, these things come up and they go away again for everybody. He didn’t hold on to that worry and read it out without a problem.
There is a tendency to put those who point in a higher place than we think we are in and then to try and be like them or pull the down to our level, it is a great relief to see that they are really just like us and there is no higher or lower place to goto or come from.
THIS really is IT already even if we don’t always recognised that.
(I hope my ‘dogs nuts’ aren’t sticking out too much)
Posted by gilbert on 02.05.09 1:32 pm
The concept of there being an individual will, is just an insurance policy for ‘me’.
One intelligence Energy Moves everything – and that movement is an appearance of so-called ‘matter’ and the ‘space’ it all appears within.
In other words – The intent is not in the individual.
That ‘you’ that you believe you are ‘thinks’ that ‘it thinks’ and appears to explain all these movements and objects with endless ideas and words – in order to find comfort in the ephemeral nature of thoughts and e-motions.
These ideas and words are not original. They have all appeared ‘before’ have they not?
OR…….is this moment totally fresh……..?
The order of the words may appear to be original or even beautiful.
Have a look at what recognizes the words instantly – can you find what that is?
To live in this freshness all ‘we’ need to ‘do’ is nothing.
Not as a ‘not doing’ because that is ‘doing’ in disguise.
In the original empty space prior to consciousness, prior to the ‘mind’ and ‘e-motion’ there is peace beyond understanding.
No one claims this as their true nature – because the realization of THIS is never made – not by a ‘person’. It is the absence of a ‘person’ totally.
Emptiness does not give a rats ass for anything – any THING because it is NO THING.
And everything that appears is equal to that NO THING.
Everything is NO THING appearing as ‘things’.
All these ego territory battles are totally harmless – but for the believer of them, that one has made a bed of nails for themselves.
If you are on such a bed, wrap the nuts in cloth or we will never hear the end of your complaints.
Posted by wannabee guru on 02.05.09 2:29 pm
Posted by tazzy on 02.05.09 2:42 pm
Very slick little wireless program big WillyDick.Ta. Tazzy
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.05.09 2:54 pm
Gilbert,
Am I interpreting what is being said correctly?
I’m interacting with people everyday who are not really people at all, they are not skin & bones or organs or blood or eyes etc; in fact there is no one there at all, just emptiness. If I’m talking to someone, it is actually no one talking to no one.
Everything & everyone I see including myself is really just empty intelligent space.
Thoughts just arise from nowhere.
People are basically no different than a tree . The tree does not have choice or freewill.
I think about this off & on all day long, feels like I’m living a sci fi movie.
Posted by Charlie on 02.05.09 3:47 pm
“This is the mystery of imagination, that it seems to be so real. You may be celibate or married, a monk or a family man; that is not the point. Are you a slave of your imagination, or are you not? Whatever decision you take, whatever work you do, it will be invariably based on imagination, on assumptions parading as facts”.
- Sri Nisargadatta
Gilbert, is your imaginary Van fixed yet? I do wish you well. Honestly! How could I not? You are my Human Brother …. And PS – I think you’ll be quite pleased with my friend John Greven’s interview. G, I know you hate it when I tell you this, but …
I Love You, Gilbert (and you ALL) … here in this Amazing Dream .. as the One Self “we” all are. Every happiness to you, and “I hope the world wakes up soon” …
A Space of possibility … maybe the time is now for a true Global Transformation …………
Posted by gilbert on 02.05.09 4:53 pm
The interpretation can be correct or incorrect but it is never true. The word is not the real.
As a ‘seeker’ ‘we’ may search everywhere, under every rock and behind every tree, in every sacred temple and in every profane place and brothel. ‘We’ can search wherever the ‘mind’ and its curiosity may lead us. But there is one ‘place’ we inevitably ‘forget’ to look.
And that is where the actual ‘seeing’ is happening.
This can be pointed out and many say they have an intellectual understanding of this and many other ‘pointers’. The mind translates the ‘activity’ and the basis of all activity is KNOWING. There is nothing outside of this knowing. It is ALL knowing.
Or Knowing the ALL – without EVER becoming a ‘thing’ – the knowing is not IN the pattern called a body or mind.
The body, the mind and the world are appearing in the knowing.
By what arrogance does the body and mind claim this knowing?
By a simple belief in a ‘me’. The ‘me’ has no being.
You can trust the body more than the ‘me’. The body lives in the immediacy.
The ‘me’ lives in imaginary time.
As for love – forget it.
When love and hate are absent – everything is clear and undisguised.
It does not ‘become’ clear and undisguised……..it IS clear and undisguised.
It is belief in what the mind translates, that is what seemingly obscures awareness.
In SEEING this activity of the mind, it is included and embraced by the knowing.
One then ‘appears’ to ‘become’ a conscious being, awake and unencumbered by any thing. Even this experience is just another description.
The whole realm of spirituality is built upon concepts – and a concept has no substance and no independent nature apart from the KNOWING of it.
There is no ‘knower’.
Those who say there is are only using it as a pointer. When you truly investigate this ‘knower’ you find that there isn’t one.
The Sufi Masters often tricked their devotees and in Carlos’ books about Don Juan, the nagual often tricked Carlos with all kinds of ‘set ups’ – BUT it was and is always in order for the devotee to step out of the shackles of bondage. Compassion can appear in many forms – even its so-called opposite.
Posted by Bob Seal on 02.05.09 5:00 pm
Luv the podcasts and the posts.
I’m always amazed at all the words appearing here in the posts.
Here there are only images that reveal themselves and disappear.
Luv this expression Gilbert:
“Emptiness does not give a rats ass for anything – any THING because it is NO THING.”
A wonderful visual image of a Rats Arse served up with cheese sauce and a tail sticking out of the top. Almost makes me wish I wasn’t a veggy!
This thought appeared here today . . . Who am I?
If you wanted to hide something what better place to hide it than inside the seeming entity that is looking, what better could you do than to make it that which is doing the actual looking itself, looking for itself. Better still, make it a no-thing appearing as everything.
“How simple!” The mind always says “too simple!” and the wheel of mind turns again.
Miranda I think the sci fi movie is probably Matrix x with the Goon Show. (Old British comedy show). “He’s fallen in the water” (Peter Sellers)
Thanks for the kind words Dan and Miranda re: toons.
Posted by gilbert on 02.05.09 5:20 pm
Bob, bro, I love your stuff and I love to draw too and I am a creative little critter or soul – Sculpture, Oil painting, Wood Engraving, Bone carving, Sound stuff, Radio Shows (for many years in the past). ‘I’ have won prizes for woodwork and wood-turning. Blue ribbons and red ribbons. A photo album of a hundred things ‘I’ have made. Yet it all amounts to zilch.
The true creative energy flows in the immediacy so long as you get the ‘me’ out of the way. If it remains, it will vibrate into the opposite – destructive.
What you or I truly am or are is what gives the ‘me’ any kind of power – through belief.
Be the source and cut off the feed to the ‘me’.
It is actually extremely simple – but to get the message over seems to take forever.
But time is just a concept. There are those who are grateful for what is presented.
There are others who just want to argue, because the focus isn’t on them, it isn’t about their little personalized ‘me’. – Cheery pip – G.
Posted by areti on 02.05.09 7:57 pm
You’ve got to hand it to Gilbert, he knows how to knock the wind out of anybody’s sail, and he’s not even doing himself, – maybe that’s why he is so effective, as are all the great ‘teachers’ like John W, John G, Randal, Big Bob, Katherine, Tony Parsons (Jeff) etc etc etc etc etc.
Posted by areti on 02.05.09 7:59 pm
Stay tuned for parts 2 and three, they will knock your socks off! And John Greven will be up next.
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.05.09 11:14 pm
Hey Thanks, Gilbert
After a month or so of this nasty feeling, which the mind labeled… “I just wish Gilbert would shut the f^*# up” – as I (unwillingly) read his pointers, again and again, word for word, over and over, not even missing the space between the words…. (ow, stop hurting me , ow, I love it, Oh Stop it – Some More ~~ lol )
Some-thing “clicked”, like my old pocket interpreter just up and quit – and as close as I can describe… I stopped reading the words and started seeing the screen.
This Living truth Cannot Be Expressed, or even experienced.
But shit man, I am finding that the more it pisses me off and makes me squirm, exposing the shadow to the light, the more it smacks of burnt carcasses, left behind in Gilbert’s wake, the more I like it.
Knowing that there is no you to receive gratitude, both being only sensations, arising in the timeless awareness. But a sensation did arise and the mind did it’s interpretation and what came out is…. Gilbert is surgically slicing through all of these people’s long cherished beliefs, habits and patterns. (I imagine illusions and body parts flying around the room)…with a message of, or pointers to, what I consider to be as close to the Truth as I’ve ever heard…
Spot Frikin ON
Posted by gilbert on 02.05.09 11:48 pm
It isn’t about Gilbert. Intelligence is doing everything – EVERYTHING – not just this website, the podcasts, the voices and the words – It is doing the WHOLE manifestation.
Love it or hate it – that believed in ‘me’ has nothing to do with it. It is a phantom.
The sooner it is cast aside, the better. But that requires courage and the mind may well tell you that you don’t have the courage to face what is TRUE. That is a crap story.
What you ARE is TRUE – it is the ONLY TRUE ‘thing’.
Even in the most ordinary way of seeing – everything is appearing in that seeing – everything is an appearance it that seeing.
NOW – the Absolute Reality permeates it all. The ordinary seeing, without the minds interpretation, IS the SEEING.
The ordinary understanding IS the UNDERSTANDING.
In taking the limitations (me) off the pure functions of SEEING, HEARING and THINKING – it will reveal itself fully.
What you are is like the space that all appears in. No boundary and NO center.
What is being pointed out is awesome (to the mind) and it stops the mind dead in its tracks.
True compassion can appear as Ruthlessness – as I have witnessed – first hand.
Vanity is a sticky substance – like fungus spores it will take root so easily – because the world is full of it.
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 12:50 am
Some teachers say that you have to learn how to embody the teaching. They suggest that THEY have woken you up. But the deliverance is still not HERE. They suggest that you must learn HOW to live in the enlightened state, like the state they are in.
They say things like “I read I am THAT and I realized that I ‘was’ in the same state as Nisargadatta ‘was’ in”.
Pardon my bluntness but……That is total CRAP – it is just a dream and it is bullshit. The THICK voluminous books written by these types are only useful as a door stop or for lighting a bonfire.
Nisargadatta was not in a state. There is no one in a state. There is no permanent state, higher or lower. All is equal in Oneness.
Anyone who truly understands what Nisargadatta was pointing out would KNOW that. He was a simple man and he did not collect seekers.
He refused the offer of an Ashram to be built for him. He did not grandstand himself and had no need to do so. People came from all over the Globe. They found their way to him.
There were no street signs to guide them. They would stop locals in the street and ask “where is the biddy man” and they would usually be directed. Thousands walked past his door everyday without knowing what was taking place upstairs.
He would allow people to stay a week or two and then insist that they leave.
Today we have media madness and hundreds of gurus selling their conceptual nonsense….gathering hordes of locked in seekers. Workshops, seminars and wucka mucka workshops galore – and so many claiming to be an enlightened being, willing to share (for a price) their ‘teaching’. All crap – life style addiction.
The message can be delivered very quickly. No devotion is necessary and no years of ‘work’ to do or even speak of.
The truth is not a franchise business.
Those who have realized this cosmic truth in themselves may speak and share it.
Those who imitate are just parrots and parading egoic patterns of energy and their words are empty of any true meaning. They may have thousands of followers but no one appears to be set free. Business is business.
What is on offer here at the UGC is some radical news. It is not going to make it onto the front page of the newspaper or the TV news.
But I can tell you that this news is exceedingly potent when it is truly heard.
Oddly enough, many can sit and listen for years and it doesn’t get heard.
the mind translates everything too quickly and so the essence message is missed.
Some need a shock – some need a gentle delivery. Everyone is unique.
But be assured, if you keep coming back to hear it – it WILL be heard.
One spark is all it takes – “it will consume the whole bale of cotton”.
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.06.09 1:51 am
And Poof… he who was never there is gone again.
To Miranda>
All of the words here are Not It and yet ‘you’ come back again and again, as do ‘I’.
There is a tone underneath, within this, permeating, inviting to discovery, only the discovery is that there is no discovery…. only more mystery and yet the show seems to go on. It is experienced here as a beautiful melody and no matter which part of the symphony is playing at UGC in any given moment, from LOUD and BOMBASTIC to sweetly subtle, to outrageously arrogant (like the saxophone), somehow it reverberates to touch “SomeWhere” familiar~ and there is a resting**
Posted by BillBaily on 02.06.09 1:53 am
It’s been some time since I posted on this site but I do read and listen to the podcast.
This seems like a good time to share this.
I’m getting up there in years and I’ve told my family many times that I wanted “FINALLY HOME” to be written on my tombstone. I was tired and wanted to finally arrive home, as they say, and relax & have peace. I stumbled across this pointer and one spark consumed my “future home” concept. I now tell my family “oh hell, just burn up this old body..no tombstone needed!!
“Nothing that is expressed, by anyone at all, can ever bring you ‘home’ – because you never ever left ‘home’”
Gilbert Schultz
Posted by milton on 02.06.09 4:14 am
Burn, baby burn. A bit of cauterizing keeps the germs away. UGC certainly keeps the rubbish from accumulating.
I am having trouble accepting ordinary consciousness all there is because, well, it seems so ordinary. Does this mean an end to dreams of blissful, nivanic, oneness in contrast to the mundane, subject-object world of everyday reality? In some ways it is very freeing, but I must admit a little disappointment along the lines of “is this all there is to it?”
When I read Nisargadatta it seems sometimes that he makes a distinction between the subject-object, ego state, the universal consciousness, and ultimately the Absolute. What is he talking about? I had imagined, or hoped for a personal transformation, but guess that makes no sense in light of there is nothing to transform. So is this really it, right now, full stop, end of sentence? Many thanks
Posted by Ralph on 02.06.09 4:14 am
Speaking of teachers, here is one teacher who made bundles and bundles of money in this field of ‘pointing’ to your true nature. Now I want you to listen to what he is saying and tell me that he is a fake. Instead of listening to what is being said, we are too preoccupied with the teacher and don’t pay attention to the message (pointers). This is not Eckhart Tolle speaking but stillness speaking, if you can check your ego at the door and just listen to what is spoken you will recognize your true nature in those spoken words. Again, these are not Eckhart’s words, just as when Gilbert delivers great pointers, they are not his words but come from the stillness . I’m sure Glibert will agree to that but the problem arises when we identify with those pointers and try to make them our own.
Please enjoy this 4 minute clip. Here in these 4 minutes you will get a glimpse of who you truly are. Can you hear it or see it? If not, try again but this time come naked and leave your identification as a separate self at the door and don’t worry, I promise you it will come back seconds after this clip is heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j42cTkiGdXY
Posted by milton on 02.06.09 4:22 am
Ralph, Have to admit ET seems right on here. Speaking from the stillness. Or he is a good fakir.
Posted by WeNoTwo on 02.06.09 4:54 am
“Please give me a glimpse Tolle. Quick I really need a glimpse Now. Won’t you please give me a glimpse? I beg you !” Surely this ‘glimpse’ you speak of must be some story you like to entertain for yourself. What can be forgotten and remembered surely is not REALITY ! Be done with that! You’re a King not a beggar. A Lion not a sheep. “Wake up and roar!”. Or are you a wolf in sheeps clothing?
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 02.06.09 4:56 am
For some, I’ve noticed, this is still about focusing in on a “teacher” who is the Oneness cleverly pretending to be a reference point pretending not to be a guru. No colorful robes, no high fees, but still a teaching with a “special” (cough cough) guy in the middle of it all. I think Nisargadatta had it right–kick them out after a couple weeks. After it resonates, you should go on your way. If you stay, the only fate for “you” in this grand appearance we call the Urban Guru Cafe is to become either “dog balls” or somebody Charlie Hayes is saying “I love you” to.
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.06.09 5:13 am
aabocarnu… this is what I’m feeling while here at this site but I could not put it into words as you did …Thanks very much
“somehow it reverberates to touch “SomeWhere†familiar~ and there is a resting**”
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 02.06.09 5:33 am
Ralph–I can’t get uTube where I’m currently located, but I would agree with you; there’s an occasional great pointer given by ET. I would really enjoy talking to him if I ever bumped into him, but I’d never pay a fee to hear him speak or buy any of his stuff (or anyone else’s anymore). I’d probably buy him a Big Mac and small soda for a discussion but that’s about it. The audio I got as a gift “Stillness Speaks” had its moments but was mostly geared toward the seeker. As a character viewed in duality, he seems to enjoy a great amount of peace–like you would expect from a guru in a public setting. Still though, any appearance, whether it’s a calm & together Eckhart or a frustrated body-mind where you appear to be–none of those things have any independent nature apart from what you are. They all register in what you are and are further identified in thought as desirable traits, undesirable traits, something good, something bad, somebody good, somebody bad. It’s all a game you’re playing. There’s nothing to fix about any of this.
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.06.09 6:08 am
I’m thinking why expose yourself to gurus or teachers who mix truth ( if there is any truth) with concepts.
Remember the saying, the law & grace don’t work together. Sorta like oil & water.
I’m just saying, but what do I know!
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.06.09 7:13 am
Miranda,
You know more that you know and less than you think~
I find that our “inner” guide, called intuition, conscience or Jimminy Cricket,
somehow knows when Truth Rings Clear. Stay with that and trust that feeling of moth to flame. (burning may occur) I have read, heard and paid thousands for the “seeming” Non Dual teachings, but what is on offer here for Free “Rang True”, even if it pissed me off. I watched the Warm, lovey dovey, “comfortable, seemingly soft and fuzzy Gee You Are You’s suck this seekers last cent and came away with a GREAT Feeling which of course faded over the illusion called time. What Doesn’t Come and Go, when the “feeling” pass……..Stick with that~
Posted by Robin on 02.06.09 8:00 am
A question continues to arise here…it’s driving the “me” crazy!
If the “seeing” is all there is; with no reference point, no time, no me…why do “we” continue to appear to be in the “vicinity” of one physical body only? When waking up in the morning, this same body appears…does this not imply some kind of reference point? Yet, when “I” look I can’t find a center. Does this make sense? Would anyone like to comment?
Posted by MIRANDA on 02.06.09 8:03 am
Thanks abbocarnu I feel very lucky to have found this site then again I didn’t find it did I? ha
Bob Seal, I’m going to rent the movie Matrix,never really been interested before but am now..thanks
Posted by Bob Seal on 02.06.09 9:43 am
I hear you Gilbert
Keep on cutting through the shit man.
Nice mirror you have there.
Love Sailor Bob’s response to the movie Matrix.
Not an exact quote but the best I can remember . . .
“Oh, I did see it on a dvd someone had, but didn’t think much to it.”
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 11:13 am
Awareness has no boundaries.
Awareness has no center.
In deep sleep those seeming boundaries and that self-center dissolve back into the blissful unknowing. The unknowing is PURE knowing. There ain’t no body there to soil the immaculate clarity of simple awareness.
Now, your ‘mind’ may imagine that it needs to get back to that ‘state’ of clarity.
It is not a state.
It is present right now.
It SEEMS that ‘We’ ignore it and ‘we’ must ignore it, because it has no name, no image and no memory for the mind to play with.
The mind works with all those ‘things’ trying to grasp IT.
Wouldn’t it dawn on you that such activities are just a restless motion and a dualistic ‘ping-pong game’ in the mind?
Who is looking for the true self?
Does the Sun need a five dollar torch from Walmart to KNOW its own being-presence? If you think the Sun is a dead thing, then you are gravely mistaken. The WHOLE is Living Intelligence. Stop being arrogant and self-centered.
What you truly ARE is shining – it is self-shining.
That true nature is self-knowing. It is NOT a knowing of ‘a self’.
Water is self-wetting.
Right ‘there’ where seeing is happening is the same right ‘here’ seeing.
It is not limited to any ‘place or location’. It is Cosmic by nature.
As Ramana says: “You are the Infinite Being. Then you take yourself to be a limited creature……..then you create methods and practices to overcome these limitations………but if these methods and practices imply those limitations…..HOW can they free you from them?” (or words close to those).
That short sentence demolishes all the teachers of methods and practices……..teachers who sit on a raised platform with Ramana’s Photo next to them, and Papaji’s photo or Nisargadatta’s photo or whoever their guru was………AS IF the photo is some sort of pedigree, some sort of authorization stamp of approval, while they fly in the face of what Ramana points out – by TEACHING ‘How to Become’ like them. It is a teaching of arrogance – and ‘people’ blindly imitate these fraudulent teachers.
If their own words can’t deliver what needs to be delivered without all that nonsense, then what the hell are they doing fleecing the pockets of the ignorant?
In the appearance of ‘things’…..Let me tell you that a WAVE is coming………and it is going to wash away these pretenders. It already shows signs of a swell……it is intelligence rising up, casting aside the scum on the surface.
Eckhart is just a pattern on the wave and he will disappear, just like they all disappear.
Oprah or anyone at all will be cast aside so long as they cling to the forms.
Find in yourself what cannot perish. It is this timeless KNOWING.
Align yourself with that in every available moment.
Forget about your little mind games and diversions. There is NO time to waste.
The biggest word in our language is GOD. That word has ‘become’ unrecognizable.
But the ESSENCE of what it means is the very SAME as the meaning ‘YOUR TRUE ESSENCE’.
Radical news.
It is only the factions of the illusion of a division of that ESSENCE that can fight over ‘things’ in the name of GOD.
It is not your GOD.
There is NO separation.
Posted by Robin on 02.06.09 11:47 am
Hi Gilbert,
I think you were responding to my question…and all I can say is that I am completely confused…when you say, stop being arrogant and self-centered, this does not appear to serve as a pointer from here because that is the problem: “I” don’t know how to stop being self centered…and then I could throw it back your way and say…who is there to stop being self-centered? No One! And now it is appearing like a game of semantics or something. So, confusion is arising here…and “I” know I will continue to read the posts here because “something” draws me and it appears “I” cannot stop…
Thanks for all this pointing, I think!
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 12:07 pm
If it is truly known that there is no one to be arrogant and self-centered then there is no problem. The comment above was not address to anyone in particular. Something may be ‘heard’ somewhere.
The milk must be churned before the butter arises out of the emptiness.
‘Your life’ is the milk – the stirrer is the agitation of erroneous beliefs and out of all that there ‘arises’ the ‘butter’ – the undisturbed KNOWING.
If we wait too long the milk goes off and ‘we’ become fodder for the Universe.
Life lives on Life. There is an ancient Indian saying “Eat life…. or life will eat you”.
If you feel like you are being eaten – then take the steps necessary. Accept the agitation completely – let all of the milk be churned – hold nothing back.
It is all words – but somewhere they may just ‘click’. It is all for that one – you may imagine that that one is someone else, not you.
There is no duality in Non Duality.
If my words can disturb your sleep – you can curse me as much as you like – I don’t mind – just notice one thing – you are awake.
What more do you want?
Posted by Robin on 02.06.09 12:24 pm
Hi Gilbert,
Thanks for your response…”the milk must be churned before the butter arises”. Churning is occuring here. So what? It’s uncomfortable but it appears this non-duality subject doesn’t want to leave! What is one to do? As you said, in a prior message, “one spark is all it takes.”
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 1:19 pm
That ‘spark’ is naked seeing. SEEING.
There is a Tibetan text translated into English called “Self-Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness”.
The title says all you need to know, so long as you realize that it is liberation from the idea of being a ‘self’ – not as it is usually understood……a ‘self that becomes liberated’ through some ‘work of the self’.
That burning insight is what I call a ‘spark’. It appears as a spark yet it is already here – as this naked seeing. This ‘spark’ appears to burn the whole erroneous belief system as the naked seeing reveals every belief to be nothing but a conceptualization, an appearance in or on awareness. The ‘mind’ in appearance is thoughts, images, memories, attitudes and moods etc. In essence the mind is naked, empty awareness.
Who wants to know this? No one.
That is the paradox for the seeker. The seeker is the problem – the search is the problem.
Who wants to know this? No one.
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.06.09 1:51 pm
Seeking Enlightenment forever binds us to missing that which Enlightenment points to, which is the Ever Present Presence, this wakening, this opening, this capacity, this “Screen of Awareness.
Randall Friend
http://www.avastu0.blogspot.com
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 2:55 pm
Yes and Randall expresses clearly and precisely – listen to his programs here on the UGC. There will be a new program from Randall coming up in due course.
There is a tab at the bottom of the main page called ‘Previous….’ that takes you to earlier programs. There are three pages of programs at present. Randall will appear along with others on the hour long Urban Guru Cafe program which will appear on a Southern Californian Radio Station towards the end of the month. I will post exact details as we draw closer to the ‘time’. The program may well ‘touch’ a few unsuspecting free spirits down there in the deep south. It will be interesting to see what comes from it – in the appearance of ‘things’.
Posted by Susana on 02.06.09 5:22 pm
Randall returns again and again to the clearest pointings.
At no point is there anything but love, but not for Susana the illusory person, but as he says “the presence beating this heart and spinning the planets”.
I met Randall on this site and of all the things I am grateful for in this life, this is up there on top.
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 5:52 pm
“Here here” I second the e-motion. “I rest my case your honor”.
There is nothing more pleasant than hearing that someone truly appreciates the clear message and its messenger.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 02.06.09 9:25 pm
Robin–you had a great question several posts back that shows your head is definitely in the tiger’s mouth. Let me remind you that this thing you call your body, which is troubling you, because it seemingly keeps re-appearing, is devoid of any being in and of itself. It appears in the cognizing emptiness that you are and is nothing but emptiness. Even in the appearance, put it under a powerful enough microscope and you will see no thing. Furthermore, without the cognzing emptiness it wouldn’t even appear because it has no separate existence unto itself. You have the same spouse, same friends, same job–how come those don’t trouble you? Even though we say the “same” body, “same” friends, “same” job, “same” many things about ourselves…we notice that if we look closely enough, everything is changing; not only the obvious things that change rapidly but the inobvious things that appear to be the “same” even though they’ve changed greatly over the years in the appearance of space and time. Nothing is held constant except That which You Are. There’s no unchanging reference point within the Knowing to be found.
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 9:58 pm
Bob recently expressed a few words that can really cut though a lot of repetitious mind crap: “There is no way out of the dream – in the dream”. Putting it slightly differently – In the dream there is no way out of the dream.
Posted by gilbert on 02.06.09 11:40 pm
If you were a crystal of sugar, would you taste the sweetness?
If you were the ocean, would you taste the salt?
If you were a star would you see your own light?
If you were an object, would you know that object?
If you were a thought, would you know that thought?
If you were a body, would you know that body?
If you were nothing but space, would you know space?
Who is this one who knows?
Where is this one who knows?
Whatever impressions may register on that awareness, the basic activity is ‘knowing’.
There is nothing outside of knowing. Even ‘not knowing’ is just a concept appearing in this knowing.
This knowing has no form whatsoever. This movement, this activity, of knowing permeates everything, embraces everything.
It cannot be claimed by a taster, a seer, a hearer or a knower.
Such ‘things’ are thoughts appearing in this knowing.
No matter how far one reaches into outer space or down into the microscopic realms of matter – knowing is there – ‘as if’ waiting for the apparatus of perception to arrive.
Reality is solid and beyond space itself.
One movement, one activity of knowing is all there is.
By the ‘grace’ of this movement, this activity, ‘you’ think you know what you are.
But that is just a thought, a perception.
There is only Knowing.
Posted by Nobody on 02.07.09 12:30 am
The messages that don’t dangle an other carrot are very rare…a lot of teachers say “this is it” yet speak about something in time such as awakening and liberation;and there is sometimes so much hope for this imaginary liberation that it isn’t noticed that it’s just a wonderful story yet perpetuated by so called teachers! always something that isn’t there yet! an energetic shift,a total intimacy,and so on…that’s the misery for the seeker!
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 12:53 am
Yes and those teachers will never appear on this site. They are a pest, to say the least.
This site is dedicated to the direct and immediate Knowing of one’s true nature – even though that is indescribable – all we can do is constantly ‘point’ at it – even though it is not hidden. It appears that the RECOGNITION needs to happen.
The recognition is the mind aligning itself with PURE cognition.
This ‘moment’ of recognition is outside of time and so it is not an ‘event’.
Popular teachers entice the mind of the seeker with promises of delivery.
They themselves are obviously ignorant of their true nature – this MUST be so – otherwise WHY would they spin stories about the future and the hope they instill in their poor unfortunate devotees.
It is all in the appearance – it is a dream – and as has already been pointed out – there is no way out of the dream – in the dream. The dream character has no substance – ‘he’ can only brush his imaginary teeth in the dream. On waking, the teeth need to be brushed – unless you like the taste of the bottom of a bird cage.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 02.07.09 1:33 am
Good Pointer but the average Joe would have no problem saying, “yes, I know the body and I also know myself as the body, my thoughts, and my soul that will live on in the afterlife” They don’t see the inconsistency of having no separation from the Knowing, but then defining an object in the Knowing, and then saying “that’s what I am”. On the other hand, the few that look will have little problem seeing what is being pointed to–but may have big problems accepting it. Sometimes maintaining the story of being a miserable seeker who understands bits and pieces of the teaching is better than full-on reality. “There must be something better than just THIS” so I’ll continue imagining myself a seeker who understands some of this and will continue on this way until I discover that reality is really something much more miraculous for ME than just THIS that I AM.
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 3:01 am
What you say is correct Jim – but it is not true.
There is/are no ‘few’ that ‘look and see’ and no ‘many that don’t see’ and ‘no one’ that can accept or reject anything. That is all in the ‘appearance of things’.
The appearance of ‘things’ appears in the SEEING.
Everything appears in the SEEING. Everything IS the seeing – but NOT as separate ‘things’.
There is ONLY SEEING.
The WHOLE pattern of the Universe appears as patterns within patterns, ad infinitum.
The SEEING-KNOWING is not in the Pattern or the patterns within the Pattern.
The Cosmic Fractal Pattern is not moving. It only appears to move, in time, duration and in space, volume. Where the SEEING is taking place is not a ‘place’ or ‘loca’.
SEEING has no qualities to it called time or space – it is space-less and time-less. This is absolutely OBVIOUS right there where the seeing is happening.
This revelation stops the mind dead in its tracks. SEEING remains and ‘appears’ to come forward due to the mind’s silence.
It only takes one full-stop and the mind-game is over.
Reality is beyond the beyond. Build your house on the ROCK (reality-truth).
THAT is the HOME ‘one’ has never left.
The only one who understands what I am saying is that ONE.
I am THAT. ‘You’ are THAT.
The friction of what appears as the opposites is nothing but KNOWING.
Suffering is nothing but KNOWING.
There is no one that knows this or anything at all.
There is ONLY KNOWING.
In the appearance of ‘things’, the ‘me’ is a resistance to ‘what is’. The friction arising from this resistance is ‘a wake up call’ – but everyone hits the snooze button.
In the appearance of ‘things’ – all the major religions ‘point’ at THAT. A lot of additional ‘stuff’ has been added but the core message is there for those that can recognize it.
Allah for instance means ‘nothing’ or no thing. Painting images of Allah is forbidden. GOD is also No Thing appearing as everything. There is only One God.
One Awareness. If Christians, Muslims and others would replace the word ‘God’ with ‘Awareness’ a great deal of Non Duality ‘pointing’ would make sense to them.
But they have a graven ‘image’ of what God is in their minds – which precludes clear seeing – and also anyone ‘outside’ of their religion can’t be ‘right’ in what they say, according to them.
It is all biased views, which exclude only themselves. Their ‘club mentality’ and their ‘exclusiveness’ is their ‘downfall’. Often certain exclusive costumes are required to strengthen this exclusiveness – to bind them to ‘the wheel of Karma’.
Non Duality is ALL inclusive….by its very nature.
Posted by Robin on 02.07.09 3:22 am
Kimo,
I so appreciate you responding to my post regarding “same” body, “same” spouse, etc. continuing to reappear…I understand when you say if one really looks, EVERYTHING is changing in the appearance of space and time. So what appears to be the changing of the “same” body is in fact a “new” body so to speak in every moment? Confusion again!
This “I” does not want to continue on the miserable seeker route merely understanding bits and pieces…oh no, full-on reality please! I’m not looking for some miraculous state…just the truth!
Posted by Robin on 02.07.09 4:00 am
Gilbert,
I really don’t understand you going on and on…This is an amazing site and I am very grateful! What I’m finding here is that when you post an extremely long message, I get completely lost and don’t even attempt to find the pointers among the other concepts…It feels like a spin. Just wanted to share this.
Posted by Ralph on 02.07.09 4:12 am
Robin, if I can give you my opinion, it is stop trying to figure it out. The mind simply cannot get this. Use your mind to see that the mind is what stands in the way of true seeing. It is not about you. What you are ‘fixated’ on is what is obscuring your true seeing and keeps you on the path of a miserable seeker. Hope this helps.
Posted by Ralph on 02.07.09 4:30 am
‘There is no way out of the dream – in the dream’ BUT the dream must be seen AS a dream.
-Seeing the dream as a dream is where true freedom lies. How is this done ? I don’t know but one thing I can tell you is it ain’t Full STOP ! even though ultimately it is the only way out. Paradox indeed !
Posted by milton on 02.07.09 4:48 am
Robin: I agree with Ralph. This site helps me when I don’t try to figure it out or make sense of all that is being said, (there are so many paradoxes and contradictions) and instead just let the pointers point- they seem to have an effect regardless of my confusion. Your questions and comments are helpful others of us who are churning in the confusion.
Posted by Robin on 02.07.09 5:38 am
Thank you Ralph and Milton…and yes, the “mind” wants to figure it out! However, “I” also get stuck because we have to use words/concepts and therefore the mind to even communicate about this…I know the “non-dualists” keep saying the words are only pointers. When I read this stuff, simplifying seems to be the way to go…Also, as soon as “someone” talks, there is a reference point…frustration indeed.
Posted by Robin on 02.07.09 5:47 am
P.S. Does anyone who reads this site live near Chicago? I’d love to see “someone” in person and not just communicate in cyberspace…Thanks!
Posted by Georgew on 02.07.09 6:00 am
Robin,
The confusion is appearing because you ARE reading all these post. It is better to stick to one teacher at a time otherwise you get confused.
I assure you the very best thing you can do, if you are serious about understanding , is ONLY READ Gilbert’s post. Read them slowly…and take time to let what is being said sink in. Take nothing being said as personal because you are not a person.
Posted by Dan on 02.07.09 7:02 am
Hey Robin -
Here’s a pointer: Try just noticing yourself being Aware of your thoughts. Let yourself, as the thinker go in whatever direction it goes, and notice you being Aware of yourself thinking…
Notice the Awareness behind the thoughts.
This starts to give a taste of the “observer”, it start to bring a taste of contentment, of peace…
It can be frightening because it implies that you do not exist really as a mind (how can you be an impersonal observer…?). But it is actually safe. It’s actually better than safe. All this really needs is your attention, and then things start to experientially come into focus.
Does that help?
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 9:32 am
Thank you Robin. It is a fair comment about the long spins. It is not planned, and it just flows out. The programs say what needs to be said. The comment pages are a bonus.
If you need spiritual companionship, that is fine, but in that case it is best to read all the comments except mine. Joan Tollifson is in Chicago I think. She has a website. Not sure how clear she is on this these days but she invited Bob Adamson to Chicago in 2004, when he did his American tour – and he held meetings somewhere close by.
Posted by Robin on 02.07.09 10:01 am
Thanks to all who have responded to my posts…
Gilbert, from what I understand, you visited with Sailor Bob quite a bit…I don’t know if that was considered “spiritual companionship”. I just thought it would be cool to hang out with someone in person who is “drawn” to this…So if that is spiritual companionship, so be it…In any case, that doesn’t mean it is best to read all the comments EXCEPT yours! And I appreciate you saying that your comments just flow out…so do everyone elses that appear here. Again, thank you for this site…something here is loving it!
Joan Tollifson is no longer in Chicago…
Posted by Ralph on 02.07.09 10:15 am
“If you need spiritual companionship, that is fine, but in that case it is best to read all the comments except mine”.
Gilbert, do you want to take that one back ? Just wondering…
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 11:19 am
No I don’t – I would rather take you back and get a refund. Just kidding.
Everything is VALID in the appearance. It is all THAT – appearing as separate ‘things’.
Just SEE that there is ‘something’ (not a thing) that is absolutely unmoving, unchanging right there where you ‘appear to be’. That is ‘The Rock’ often spoken of in the New Testament. That is the ‘rod’ that parts the Red Sea and allows passage ‘out of the turmoil’ of persecution. The land of milk and honey is right here, right now.
Don’t melt down your ‘gold’ to make an idol. Don’t worship anyone or any thing.
Too many ‘don’t's’. It is symbolic ‘pointing’ that is hidden in many of the ‘stories’ in the Bible, especially the parables. I am not a Christian, Jew or Buddhist.
There is no need to ‘belong’ to any faction. Just SEE and BE.
If you wish to say something privately to me, tell me off or whatever, you can email me at urbanguru1ATgmail.com – - that is a ‘one’ after urbanguru and replace the AT with @
Posted by howdie on 02.07.09 12:55 pm
…
Posted by howdie on 02.07.09 1:01 pm
that was interesting. i just tried to post that i was wondering if anyone else thought that something important was missing from this current conversation- went to edit, and voilla, the edit failed
mmmmm?
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 1:05 pm
THAT is the THAT-NESS of all things – it is IS-NESS. What IS.
REALITY.
You are THAT.
Jack won’t help – in fact Jack will rob you blind….same as Maryjane.
We can’t keep starting from scratch – it is assumed that those coming here are already familiar with Non Duality terms. Even so, getting back to basics is an excellent way to go.
Everything in life is about ‘THIS’ – or that other word, THAT.
You may notice that many of the songs used on the UGC have some relative ‘meaning’ to THIS. That is because it is all about THAT. We all KNOW this innately. It is just the way the mind translates it – that is why we get confused. We ignore the obviousness of THIS.
Drop your thoughts and be with THIS – even for a short ‘time’ – it will reveal itself – yet it is no thing for the mind.
Posted by Angie on 02.07.09 1:06 pm
Howdie, may I have some of what you are drinking with your doritos…just kidding!
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 1:10 pm
The only ‘thing’ that is missing in a little attention to detail. Nothing is being sold here. There is no ‘mission’. You can formulate a clear question and it will be answered.
Try some water Angie – you may be dehydrated.
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 4:48 pm
It may be good to repeat something I have said many times before.
If we replace the word ‘God’ with ‘Awareness’ many of our problems disappear.
The thing is that the word God is so loaded with associative thought patterns, different in everyone, it has ‘seemingly’ lost its meaning. It never did mean a ‘personage’ or ‘entity’.
It is the Living-ness. THIS Self-Awareness that is functioning in you right now.
Can you argue with that or THAT?
Posted by dorothy on 02.07.09 9:46 pm
Dear Gilbert,
who are these guru’s with their misleading messages?
Where are their words coming from … who is making a lot of money out of this “wrong” message?
Is there a disciple that can loose money or be at the wrong path? Why is the non-duality message so hard to “get”. Why should “we” get it ………… why not?
Thx for all “your efforts” and inspiration
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 11:26 pm
WHO are they? 99.9% of gurus and teachers – especially the most popular, that’s who.
But the ‘who’ is a fiction, just like their erroneous messages. There is no one to be misled by them. Who knows that? Everyone approaches this from the point of view of being an individual. Many pretend to have gone beyond the personal realm and many of these consider themselves as a gift to humanity. Many pretend to have ‘got it’. It is quite absurd to watch them in action. The only ‘reason’ that these things are pointed out is for the apparent benefit of those who have been seemingly on the ‘Path’ for a ‘long time’.
These ones have the benefit of knowing ‘deep down’ that they have not really ‘progressed’ at all. They know that the mind game is useless. But they are frustrated and confused.
They know it is pointless pretending to their fellow ‘members’ that they are ‘advanced students’ – because it is such hard work to keep up the appearances of being so.
They know the back stabbing ways of ‘spiritual people’ – the two faced facade.
Such a one will be most likely to ‘hear’ something here.
Of course it is all in the appearance of ‘things’ and so it is illusion. But one can know that or not know that. Getting a glimpse of the fact that ‘time’ is a concept arising in this immediacy can dissolve many erroneous concepts.
The Non Duality message is not hard to get – it is the mind’s baggage from the past that stands in the way. The mind is too quick with its translations of what is heard.
If one hears or reads some profound ‘pointing’ it either should stop the mind in its tracks or draw one into contemplation. Contemplation is not the ordinary rantings of the mind.
It is looking deeply into the meaning. That which recognizes the meaning is what is being ‘pointed at’. It is extremely simple.
There are a few good clear ‘teachers’ and each one will tell you that they are not a teacher and that there is nothing to teach. That is because they speak from the empty space of pure knowing. That is what I call ‘this empty space of knowing’.
It is pure knowing. Not a knowing of knowledge or of this or that. It is naked knowing.
The habitual mind is restless and it won’t usually allow a taste of this empty space of knowing. This is why some ancient teachers administered ‘shocks’ to still the mind.
So you don’t have to ‘get it’ because you ARE it. But the mind is telling you all kinds of stories – and stories are in time. THIS empty space of knowing is not in time.
These erroneous teachers are not going to let their devotees go – because they have not got the means to let them go. They need the devotees to serve their own seeking – the seeking acknowledgment and admiration they require to keep up the facade. They are usually very money hungry also. They may hide this behind a clever disguise but if you explore ‘the account books’ you may well find all kinds of shenanigans going on.
Who cares? Well, the devotees would care if they only could see through the facade.
I could simply express clear pointers and leave it at that.
It is better to be ordinary and show all sides – The shining bits and the rusty broken bits.
I don’t hate these teachers – I don’t care a fig about them. There is some compassion for the seeker who is caught in a trap.
Teacher’s like Bob Adamson and Tony Parsons have been around quite awhile.
They speak clearly about Non Duality. Each teacher that is clear may not resonate with everyone. Their concepts may differ considerably.
The proof of the pudding is that quite a few have ‘stepped out of the realm of erroneous beliefs’ due to hearing what a clear teacher is saying. There are some who have heard it from me and now live in effortless awareness. It is no big deal and I don’t claim anything from it. What benefit is there?
I have pissed off a lot of seekers over the years. Some of them have returned a ‘thank you’ once they have dropped the erroneous beliefs.
Now, this is getting too long, so I will leave it at that.
Posted by Nobody on 02.07.09 11:42 pm
I doubt That Tony Parsons is so clear…he always speaks about so called “liberation” and the energetic shift which accompanies it and gives the impression that he has definitely something you haven’t got …that’s just an other carrot and a lot of useless hope! he is focused now in his meetings exclusively on this “energetic shift”…don’t fall into that trap!
Posted by gilbert on 02.07.09 11:42 pm
I must confess that I find it rather strange that anyone could listen to all of these 27 programs and not actually get a good ‘whack’ in ‘the third eye’, so to speak. The odd thing is one can hear it a hundred times, a thousand times and it just goes over the head – but then out of the blue something ‘clicks’. Something cuts straight through the habitual mind and still it. As for the comment about Tony: I haven’t looked closely at his recent media stuff – so I can’t really comment on it. I don’t have any desire to look at anyone’s media stuff. I go to Bob’s meeting sometimes and I know he is very clear. I know he is clear because it was he that ‘pointed’ me to what I needed to SEE. AND it does appear to be a shift. But it is a shift that cannot be made to happen or contrived. The erroneous beliefs shift out of the way….and clear seeing appears to come ‘forward’.
Besides all that – get things clear for yourself, then it doesn’t really matter who is clear and who isn’t. ‘Personality clashes’ is not what this is about.
Posted by Nobody on 02.07.09 11:55 pm
Have a look at what Joan Tollifson says about Tony Parsons and the carrot on her website in the books page…can’t be more in agreement with her!
Posted by Nobody on 02.08.09 12:12 am
My comments about Tony Parsons is just compassion for those who may follow the donkey and the carrot…when the wonderful stories are seen as bullshit there is no interest for them; – and yet the mind tells a lot of bullshit sometimes!
Posted by gilbert on 02.08.09 12:19 am
OK….Read it and some of the other appraisals. Joan is far too liberal and accommodating with many of her appraisals of the teachers in her book list. Maybe some approval seeking going on there. Can’t please everyone or can you? The business of having dozens and dozens of links to one’s website is a bit suspect, me thinks. Keep it simple. Basically most of those teachers are not pointing directly at the timeless fact of being. They introduce dozens of conceptual stories and conditions, add methods and play the role of being HONEST.
Some make a big deal about of being Honest. Honesty has nothing to do with THIS.
In fact the ones who go on about honesty are actually being incredibly dishonest.
Most can’t see that, so I don’t expect any agreements on that.
Reality IS. It is not divided into duality, honest and dishonest, good and bad.
Enough said.
Posted by Nobody on 02.08.09 12:45 am
And yet you have my agreement,Gilbert!:-)
Posted by gilbert on 02.08.09 1:43 am
Now we have ‘nobody’ making comments. Where is everyone? Asleep?
What about the content of the program? Are there no questions arising from it?
Is everything clear and obvious now? There are about 4,000 plus downloads a month on these programs……and nobody has a question? I find that very hard to ‘believe’.
Are we just pissing in the wind here?
Gurdjieff used to say “They expect roasted pigeons to fly into their mouths”.
The opportunity here, is to get into the real meat of things and clear up misunderstandings and clear away erroneous beliefs, once and for all time. Or do you want God himself to come down out of the clouds to instruct you?
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.08.09 2:50 am
Nobody has compassion for the seeker.
Nobody is in agreement with Gilbert.
There are no questions here and no answers there.
All in fun~
Posted by Robin on 02.08.09 3:08 am
Hi Gilbert,
“Contemplation is not the ordinary rantings of the mind…” Wow, something here “needed” to hear that! Your long
post where you expressed this was incredibly clear…
Have you considered Karl Renz to be interviewed for the UGC? He seems very direct and doesn’t let anyone get away with anything…at least that’s my experience.
Posted by will on 02.08.09 3:11 am
Not pissing in the wind Gilbert.
This latest program is as unrelentingly clear as it’s possible to be.
Tears and laughter here. Self to Self, no doubt about it.
Unbelievable. No need.
No comment.
Gratitude, as ever.
Posted by angie on 02.08.09 4:52 am
Gilbert,
Please help me understand how to investigate and see there is “no me”. It seems like I have created my own donkey & carrot thing where seeing is almost there but I don’t quite see it yet.
Posted by Nobody on 02.08.09 6:40 am
Ah,the uncompromising Karl Renz!…nice guy but if you want to be confused go and see him!…he would even be pleased to confuse you! however I spent nice time with him few years ago!…:-)
Posted by Ron Marson on 02.08.09 6:54 am
Have we noticed, yet, how NOT ULTIMATELY SATISFYING a concept or an explanation is? (And the ideas you’re reading now, of course, don’t measure up either.)
Around here people hint at this by saying: conceptual pointing is not the indicated Reality; the pointing finger is not the moon. Gilbert’s pointing finger these days includes a seemingly infinite variety of ways of saying:
Be the Knowing-Seeing you already are! Just stop the mental grinding and have an unobstructed look, you fool!
The ego-mind-body response to his pointing finger can be anything. But around here it usually takes the form:
(1) How can I KNOW I already am THIS (aka: Knowing-Seeing)? or
(2) OK. I (Knowing-Seeing) already know I am Knowing-Seeing! Now what?
Both of these typical responses end in another question. This ego that wants to awaken is NOT ULTIMATELY SATISFIED. This brain that wants to know is NOT ULTIMATELY SATISFIED. Matter that wants to evolve is NOT ULTIMATELY SATISFIED.
Is there ever a problem here (I ask myself), that no concept or explanation or self-definition is every fully satisfying? Is there a problem with ‘me’ finding itself locked into a state of perpetual not-knowing where insights come and go, but are NEVER ULTIMATELY SATISFYING.
No, there doesn’t seem to be a problem here. If ‘me’ were ULTIMATELY SATISFIED I would stop wanting change, and stop changing. I would find myself as already THIS (aka: Knowing-Seeing) which never changes.
To say: ‘THIS is, and I am IT’ is NOT ULTIMATELY SATISFYING when the turn-around may be more deeply true for me in this moment: ‘THIS is, and I am not IT.’ To let this truth ALSO sink in, is to bring the mind back in balance and SEE (give up seeking right now).
This ego-mind-body has no ULTIMATELY SATISFYING ability to objectify it’s own mystery. Isn’t that fine?
Posted by Charlie Hayes on 02.08.09 6:59 am
Dear Gilbert,
If I might dare to make one last comment:
As ‘one’ you apparently “pissed off” … an apology for the ignorance of my resisting your points and calling you ‘self-righteous’ – this ‘me’ emerged as the one who was self-righteous.
So, a very deep Thank You is the only thing left to say, to you, Areti and of course Bob, John Wheeler and John Greven.
This latest program is like a sharp pin poking the “ego balloon” and POP goes the weasel…
In deep gratitude and appreciation. Silently.
Posted by nathan on 02.08.09 7:34 am
I think many times the authenticity of ‘where’ someone speaks from can be seen in what they don’t do……
Ramana never left Arunachala….and mostly ‘taught’ in silence…he was JUST BEING, no more no less….that’s IT!….Nisargadatta refused to have an ashram built because he new it would be his prison….and as Gilbert has pointed out, would usually kick people the hell out after 8 days!
That should tell you something!
All the ‘time’ and ‘effort’ put into this site completely free of charge…though I’m not sure how many would pay to be relentlessly told that they actually aren’t an individual agent responsible for their thoughts and acting independently in the world…
Seeking out like minds is all well and good, but as Mr. Ron Marson has just pointed out NOT ultimately satisfying….when you leave their company and even in their company you are still left with yourself….whatever THAT is? It is something that MUST be SEEN…NOT BELIEVED and not relinquished to ANY authority….
Gilbert made another interesting point about ‘teachers’ needing seekers…the seekers give them confirmation of their own authority or enlightenment or whatever….
there is ONLY what IS….and what IS THAT?
Posted by suki on 02.08.09 7:37 am
There is no ‘Duality in Non-Duality’.
There is no separtion anywhere or at any point.
The mind is devisive and generates questions and creates problems! – where there are none.
Knowing full well if it asks the ‘Impossible Question!’, that the ‘Impossible Answer’ will never come or if it does it will not satisfy!
You see, nothing is needed for ‘You’ to ‘Be’, ‘Now’(Knowing-Seeing)!
Right now reading these words on the screen is all registered in the everyday ordinary awareness that you ‘Are’.( Knowing-Seeing)!
But this ordinary awareness is not a state!
It is beyond time, space and all measure!
It is the mysterious and enigmatic context for all content!
Have a Great Now!
suki
Posted by gilbert on 02.08.09 9:43 am
WHO wants to know the truth? Is there such a thing as truth?
Do you exist? What duration is that existence without a thought projection?
What volume, what boundary is there to your existence, without a mind projection or thought?
As a ‘body’ – as ‘the particle’ you have less than one nanosecond to establish yourself as an ‘entity’. After that the particle has gone. As a movement of knowing – as the wave – you have less than a nanosecond to remember what you ‘were’ a nanosecond or two in the ‘past’.
I am – is an expression of the above. 2 words.
The WHOLENESS that embraces these 2 is THAT.
THAT is ETERNITY.
THAT is the KNOWING PRESENCE that is ALL inclusive.
What you are SEEING is actually No Thing.
The traces of these impressions of these movements in the space of a nanosecond ‘create’ the world, space and time.
The nanosecond and the ‘longest time’ are the SAME moment – ETERNITY.
There is no one that KNOWS THIS.
There is no one that wants to know this.
There is ONLY Knowing.
THIS immediacy – NOW-inggggggggggggggg.
‘People’ make heroes of dead gurus, like Ramana and they worship gurus who do magic tricks, ones who can manifest ash in their hands. As Muktanada pointed out to one of his deluded devotees who had come back from seeing some Fuzzball guru up north -”Ah…..Ha….If you want ash – there is plenty in the Kitchen fireplace”.
THIS is NOT about being sacred or profane.
It is about nothing other than BEING what you ARE.
A dog is not pretending to be anything at all. An albatross is not pretending to be anything at all. Just because ‘man’ has a cerebral cortex, a ‘mirror’ in the brain, does that mean that he must pretend to be something other than what he is?
Symbolism: Why were Adam and Eve cast from Paradise?
Maybe because they began to believe in the dualistic egoic embroidery in their minds – they began to be vain, like the Greek fellow ‘Narc’. They wanted MORE.
You have no choice to BE or not BE. “To be or not to be, that is the question” – a question – it is not a choice – and anyway, who wants to know the answer?
Then ‘people’ rush in where wise men fear to tread: “Yes, but Nisargadatta said such and such”. Who cares what anyone says? I am not being rude – Nisargadatta expressed very clear ‘pointing’ a lot of the ‘time’ – but did he ever says “Make me into a hero, worship ME”? NO. “He said things like “The seed has been planted – it will come to fruition naturally”
Basically: The ‘message’ is delivered – it is HEARD. The ‘message’ is radical – it dissolves erroneous beliefs.
It may ‘appear’ to take time to flourish. The ‘hearing’ of the message is the bit that counts. What prevents the ‘hearing’? The addiction to believing in the minds translation.
What about the KNOWING that you ARE?
STOP ignoring THAT. That KNOWING is not limited to nanoseconds or minutes, hours or days. IT is Eternity.
Eternity is not TIME – it is the ALL inclusive PRESENCE.
You are THAT.
I am THAT.
Posted by gilbert on 02.08.09 10:50 am
I would not advise anyone to listen to Renz. He appears to be quite mentally unstable.
Oddly enough he can be very ‘on the button’ but there seems to be, what he himself calls, ‘Absolute Arrogance’ and he seems proud to acknowledge that. English is a second language for him and he seems to think we all want to play with the funny little words games and puns he comes up with. There does not seem to be much compassion there for a ‘genuine seeker’. Instead he insults them and I get the feeling that he is actually protecting some ‘image of himself’. The story about being in Ramana’s cave and ‘His experience’ there is a dead give away. Besides all that, some of his jokes are funny, momentarily. But if people want a stand up or sit down comedian, they can find one on Broadway any night of the week.
He hangs around Arananchula, as some sort of ‘sacred place’, picking up the strays, for his annual meetings there, seekers who go there to ‘feel’ Ramana’s ‘presence’. He is popular with a lot of Europeans though. He is like a European Spiritual Tour Guide, with a sick sense of humor. He seems to like the Dutche Godesses too. Who wouldn’t?
I have listened to about 6 meetings of his, some time ago – just to see what he is on about – No, I wouldn’t recommend him at all. His paintings are better than his talks – he is an artist.
Posted by Ralph on 02.08.09 11:08 am
arrrh… this lousy World !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buTrsK_ZkvA&feature=related
Posted by gilbert on 02.08.09 11:20 am
If you watch this video that Ralph links to above…..
I say it is total Crap….Buddhist Dualistic crap…….pardon my bluntness. Toss away the robes and back to the Cave my dear.
Her closing comment is…….”If you work with your mind, that is the way….etc…..” Crap. Who is going to work with their mind? Just another ‘Byron Katie mind trip’.
The mind is dualistic. Awareness is non dual.
This site is about direct pointing. Buddhists are attached to Buddhism most usually and they have an air of being a ‘goody goody two shoes’. Crimson Robes? Nup. Give me a Devil in a Blue dress any day.
Posted by Ralph on 02.08.09 11:35 am
Thoughts just arise… the ones that ‘stick’ must be investigated.. they are the ones that is running our so-called lives…. yes?
and yes…. If thoughts don’t stick then you are home free .
Posted by Ralph on 02.08.09 11:55 am
Wow ! Charlie just had an amazing insight.. He looked at himself in the mirror and saw Gilbert but then after looking more deeply he saw himself… great insight !
Thank you Charlie for sharing your authenticity.
Posted by Mike in SF on 02.08.09 12:02 pm
Pema seems like a nice lady. Her “story” is that she got her heartbroken badly and decided to forget about men and become a nun.
There are a lot of Buddhist scenes here in San Francisco. It’s mostly lifestyle stuff. I wish I was into it. It would be good for my social life.
Posted by howdie on 02.08.09 2:08 pm
hey guys
while i wasn’t sure what was missing here i knew something was- and as i looked over the last few posts the missing part is coming through
when i see it exactly i will let you know- but “iit” is coming through now
angie- maybe i just need more doritos and jack danials and i will see it
Posted by angie on 02.08.09 2:21 pm
Ok, great.. there is no ME & I’m THAT!
Think I’ll get drunk & skate down the street naked!
Who cares! I’m done!
Posted by howdie on 02.08.09 2:28 pm
well angie there is a process, even if people want to say no doer and nothing to do, while true does not actually carry over to the thing in the dream. like any process it works the way it works- slightly individualized-
anyone who says there is no process have never gone through it. for sure it is anything but fun…and worse “you” can’t choose it- it will just one day blindside you and start- you can only then resist or go with it…
but drunk naked skating might be in your process, so give it a shot see how it worked
Posted by howdie on 02.08.09 3:43 pm
ps gilbert
bang on comment on buddhism. they are all about being “nice” but nice has nothing to do with true nature
i like when someone calls crap for crap
it may upset some buddhists, but it will help the one who is really inching closer to no-self
Posted by gilbert on 02.08.09 5:08 pm
NEWS: The Urban Guru Cafe makes an appearance on Radio in Southern California on the 24th Feb at 4pm – a 1 hour program. We will post details so you can stream it, if so desired. We trust that other Stations may take up the offer of these free programs. University Radio Stations and Local Non-Profit Community Stations are invited to request the High Resolution Audio Files from us. There will be no charge involved. There are a great many ‘out there’ who are seeking some basic answers to the Big Life Questions.
If you can assist in spreading the word, well and good. This Non Duality ‘message’ is NOT for the privileged FEW – it is everyone’s RIGHT to hear a clear ‘pointing’ to their own true nature. This website is based on that incentive. A message full of conditional requirements will not be tolerated here. Reality is clear and obvious – to everyone and anyone, provided it is pointed out to them, without anything asked in return (small meeting fees are an exception where that applies and phone consultations).
The ‘personality’ hold over the media naturally resists the ‘broadcasting’ of this ‘message’ but those strongholds cannot stop the message getting ‘out there’.
Like ‘The Wall’ it will crumble or be taken down by ‘the free people’. Is there a revolution happening? It appears to happen ‘in individuals’ but it is Cosmic by nature.
Get pro-active. Spread the word.
NEWS: A new program will appear soon. Areti interviews John Greven. This new program #28 is what we in Australia call a ‘Humm Dinger’ – a ‘Bobby Dazzler’.
It is great to have John make his voice known to us all. What he has to say is very clear, uncomplicated and a very welcome addition to what we offer here. I am sure many will appreciate what John has to say.
Note: Despite what appears sometimes here on the comment pages – this site is not about putting teachers down, so let’s not get into the details about certain personalities too much. It isnt really about ‘teachers’ – it is meant to be about clear pointing, no matter ‘who’ is ‘pointing’.
I myself, may have opened up a can of worms with a previous comment. It is what these teachers say that is up for ‘questioning’ here. Many say the right things sometimes – then their actions or their other concepts betray any real understanding.
This applies to us all of course.
As for the comment about ‘Process’: There is no one that EVER goes through a process – because there is no time – except as a concept of time.
Have a look right NOW – see if you can find anyone there in time – What process is happening, apart from thoughts arising about a process?
As the old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. No one mentioned the Donkey’s – maybe Donkey’s find their own water.
As for Buddhists – if they can’t understand their own ‘teaching’ – maybe it needs to be pointed out by a Non-Buddhist – a non-attached Buddhist. The Crimson robes clash with my complexion anyway and what on Earth would I do with those beads? No suggestions please.
Posted by Bill Tys on 02.08.09 7:08 pm
Some distillation…
The planets are moving around, the waves are rolling in, the fingernails are growing. Watch a bean popping through the dirt. No man with a white beard in a control room is doing any of that.
The existence of an intelligence is obvious.
The intelligence has no attributes. What can be said about it… except that it is undeniable. If attributes were ascribed to it, it would not be the intelligence. Attributes would limit it and it would not be the intelligence. Intelligence is the same as seeing and knowing…two words used on this site abundantly. It is no thing the mind can grasp.
The intelligence patterns endlessly. The appearance is the signature of the intelligence. The appearance is the intelligence. The intelligence and the appearance are inseparable because the seer and the seen cannot appear without the intelligence.
That is why the imagined entity does nothing.
The intelligence is running the show. The content, including the imagined entity, is fully automated.
Posted by Nobody on 02.08.09 7:22 pm
“Heartbreaking grace:the embrace of helpnessness”…those sort of titles make me sick now…Karl Renz is very proud of his words and his own jokes, he obviously loves himself…there is a big launch for his book in Arunanchula, India, and he is sure to make a lot of money! (Editor’s inclusion: Please refrain from getting into this kind of stuff- or else this site will deteriorate into the likes of most other non-duality chat sites)
Posted by Sara on 02.09.09 5:22 am
Does anyone know anything about the book “Consiousness is all”?
Do most people become vegetarians after hearing this message?
Thanks for anything you can share!
and…Bob Seal thanks for sharing your cartoons they are cool!
Posted by Charlie Hayes on 02.09.09 10:49 am
“Become Vegetarians”??
I dunno about others but when my best bud John Greven and I go to Applebees we get Steak and Taters Bud Light. He has a smoke after (I don’t – I’m allergic. Otherwise I be up for that too)
Gilbert is spot on, John Greven’s #28 is a weed whacker!
Here are the only to rules for those who have seen rightly:
(Just as I see ‘em)
1. There are no rules.
2. See rule #1.
Actually I might add one I need to subscrbe to:
Have respect what’s offered freely here.
Posted by gilbert on 02.09.09 11:02 am
Ha…….that is one rule without a second. Spot on. Yeah John Greven’s program will be up very soon……so stay tuned all you little non duality sprouts.
Posted by Ralph on 02.09.09 11:14 am
“Have respect what’s offered freely here”.
Yes, I agree. Gilbert and Areti have put in alot of effort and time in making this UGC site come alive. This is definitely much appreciated. It is not overlooked. Although I may not agree with all the pointers that Gilbert points too, I hope it is not taken out of context. Thanks again, I too, enjoy coming to this cafe .
Posted by gilbert on 02.09.09 11:31 am
“Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them.” Eccl 12:1 – the words of King Solomon in the book called the Bible. The most re-printed book ever in the modern history of mankind.
This passage is translated here as: Return to the immediacy of being, without a thought, before any concept about ‘time’ and before ‘the evil days’, the days of gloom and darkness of mind and negative thought patterns, before the ‘years’ of weariness from seeking one’s own true nature.
This immediacy is free of these ‘time bound’ notions and mental states.
The only way out of the mind is ‘full stop’ – the cessation of thought addiction – even for a moment – in which the clarity of pure being is self-evident.
Reality is SOLID unchanging. It is nameless, yet without it you would not BE.
Can you say what you are?
Posted by Sara on 02.09.09 12:17 pm
Would you say that ALL people are seeking even people who are causing suffering for others? Is there an unconsious seeking within all of nature?
Do people who understand this consider themselves atheist?
When you speak of the the cessation of thought addiction, do you mean resist thoughts?
Posted by gilbert on 02.09.09 12:38 pm
No do not resist thoughts. Simply stop them for a moment. SEE clearly that what you are is presence-awareness. Without a thought you do not disappear. This may sound odd or even silly but it is not. The insight into ones true nature does not require that thoughts cease – it is the recognition that a thought is a thought – they come and go – yet what you are is ever-present. When thoughts are paused, this ‘open view’ is most evident. Have a look. It will astound ‘you’.
You are not a ‘person’. A ‘person’ is an image and thought patterns.
You are the livingness that these ‘things’ appear on or within.
GOD is a word – its meaning has been trampled upon throughout the ages.
One may deny the existence of God – but neither you nor an atheist can deny your own existence. SEE from that actuality of your own existence. Naked seeing.
They are ONE. To call oneself God is blasphemy…….but to see that whatever you call yourself is merely a concept appearing in the reality that you ARE – that is God.
Unfortunately the word God is no longer all that useful.
We use the word Awareness instead or some other words like Intelligence Energy.
These words will also lose their potency due to familiarization and misuse.
“The word is not the real”, as Bob Adamson points out.
Posted by Kelvim on 02.09.09 12:55 pm
Hi Gilbert,
When you say: “If we replace the word ‘God’ with ‘Awareness’ many of our problems disappear.” I’m curious how you would account for the concept of prayer within the Non Dual lexicon? As Paul writes, “pray without ceasing.”
Also, I’m kinda taking the early metaphor of Jesus being the “Son of God” as referring to his transparency to Awareness — as in ‘like Awareness (God);’ ego-less, perhaps. But of course there’s more significance to all that within Judaism and early Christianity…
Hey, so are these fires anywhere near the Urban Guru Cafe’s Melbourne headquarters?
Take care,
Kelvim
Posted by Robin on 02.09.09 1:03 pm
Hi Gilbert,
Oh my God, I don’t know what happened…but the only way to put it into words is to say, “There is ONLY SEEING” finally makes sense “here”. I’m just now realizing, when I read those words before, “I” had absolutely no idea what you were talking about…even if the mind was pretending to know! The joke of it all somehow becomes revealed…
Posted by Ralph on 02.09.09 1:37 pm
Sara, if I may add, just see that you are not your thoughts. You live in the world of thoughts but the freedom lies beyond your thoughts and not in them. What helped me was seeing from a different perspective, that there are ‘no others’ and ‘me’ included. All arises in the Oneness that you are.
Posted by gilbert on 02.09.09 2:23 pm
Correction: You do not live in a world of thoughts at all. The ‘me’ appears to live there but that is NOT what you ARE. There is ONLY SEEING. No ‘seer’ – the ‘seer’ is merely the thought ‘I see’ and a story about that ‘seer’.
Yes it is the most radical insight – for no one.
Some pleasure arises ‘here’ when word comes that this has been recognized by ‘another’. The pleasure lasts a ‘short time’ and like all appearances, it fades away – without any regret happening ‘here’.
Many seeming ‘others’ can also disappear in the SEEING. So the message is repeated ad infinitum. There is no Buddhi-sattva, although Buddha means awake and Sattva means pure, unadulterated nature – at least that is my interpretation of those Sanskrit words.
The concept that one, upon arriving at Buddha-hood, declines the final awakening, in order to ‘stay behind’ and assist ‘others’ is just a ‘pleasant sentimental’ concept.
It is ALL THAT – Totality – All inclusive – Presence Awareness.
Posted by gilbert on 02.09.09 3:11 pm
Prayer. What is it? If it is merely a wishful mind wanting something that it thinks it is lacking, then it is not worthy of the word ‘Prayer’.
I would say that ‘prayer’ is a state of mind, when one is totally sincere, merging with the true nature of what one IS. The ‘person’ is transparent or absent during these ‘moments’.
Just like meditation, true mediation is ‘when’ there is no meditator.
So long as the ‘pattern’ of a believed in ‘entity’ is ‘seemingly controlling things’, then it is simply a state of delusion. Who knows this? Thousand upon thousands meditate and pray. Have they discovered their true nature? Has ‘God’ come down from above to relieve their worries and concerns? No. The Angel of the Lord descends upon one as the pure light of SEEING. That is a way of expressing it – yet it is not accurate.
There is no above or below, no inside or outside.
There is only ONE Presence Awareness. THIS is IT.
P.S. – The Urban Guru Cafe is in Cyberspace. The studio is my lounge room and the equipment is 2 Mac laptops and a digital recorder. The ‘staff’ – there is only 2, my friend from Bob’s place, Areti and me, Gilbert.
The recent Bush Fires in Victoria: Many have lost their lives in these fires and they are the worst ever on record.
Posted by Sara on 02.09.09 4:02 pm
Gilbert,
I think you mentioned a while back that the Gospel of Thomas was non-dual and that is why it was left out of the writings we now call the Bible. Do you think Jesus understood non-duality and was trying to spread the message and the interpreters messed it up?
Posted by gilbert on 02.09.09 4:15 pm
Please use ‘real’ email addresses on this site. If we need to contact you for whatever reason, it makes it impossible if the email address is a dud.
Jesus is reported to have said: “I and the Father are One”. That is obviously not indicating an ‘I’ as an entity. It is One Essence that expresses itself as ‘I am’ in the seeming individual and I AM as God. The ‘I am’ is the SAME ‘I am’ in the apparent ‘two], Father and son.
The Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit or Ghost is: Father – the OLD, the seeming past or Source – Son, the NEW, the seeming future – the spirit, the invisible un-manifested present. One appears as three. Finding this triad in yourself is simple. Take a look. The SEEING is itself invisible – un-see-able.
Who truly knows whether Jesus existed. Faith and belief are just patterns in the mind. Did he exist? It doesn’t matter about the body/mind organism – his or yours.
What ‘matters’ is the recognition of one’s own true nature. Then, once realized, it does not ‘matter’ anymore – because you are knowingly beyond ‘matter’. The resurrection simply symbolizes that the ‘spirit’ is not confined to the body. Jesus raised Lazareth from ‘the dead’ but where is Lazareth NOW? Matter is just an appearance and ALL appearances disappear – have you not noticed this obvious factor?
Did Lazareth simply die again? You see, it is all symbolism – possibly archaic to our modern ways of thinking – but it has symbolism and it can be recognized.
Like poetry, some subtle things can be expressed in language other than mere logical sentences. Did the translators mess it up? Because the translators work is language based, it naturally gets altered in what they understand the text to mean. A rare translator has a clear understanding. Sometimes the text is expressed a lot clearer in such cases. But to recognize this, one needs a clear understanding. The normal translator approaches things through the mind and the ‘meaning’ gets distorted, even though the ‘intention’ may be a good one. One example is the Evans-Wentz translation of a Tibetan text. Carl Jung, a friend of Evans-Wentz, would have had access to some extraordinary insights if the translation had been more accurate – but it was not to be. A Very clear translation of that text is available today – yet few seek it out. And book stores don’t always replace the copies when they sell. Such is the way it is. ‘Who’ truly,truly, truly wants to see through the illusion of ‘me’? Those who do, do.
From what this Jesus is reported to have said, he certainly fits the ‘shape’ of a Non Dual Teacher – although, as we point out, there is no teacher, no teaching and no pupil.
There is only one – there is no duality in Non Duality.
Posted by Bill Tys on 02.09.09 4:40 pm
“Just like meditation, true meditation is ‘when’ there is no meditator.”
My sentiments exactly!
Posted by WeNoTwo on 02.09.09 7:32 pm
” translation of a Tibetan text.”
Hi Gilbert can you give some more info concerning the accurate translation, so I can track it down?
Thx!
Posted by gilbert on 02.09.09 7:54 pm
The text is called “Self Liberation through SEEING with Naked Awareness”.
Published by Snow Lion Press. It is a short text and the book has a considerable amount of commentary after it. The commentary is quite good yet the text on its own is extremely potent. It is very ancient. The Evans-Wentz title was quite different. As I understand it the translator of that particular publication did not speak fluent Tibetan.
You can actually find the text on the internet but the book is well worth having, in my ‘humble’ opinion. My copy was lost in a house fire years ago but the text had already delivered its blow, so I have not bothered to get another copy. One can only imagine what may have happened if Carl Jung had had a clean translation. Pure speculation of course.
What is does not change. And it is all in the appearance of ‘things’.
There is a wonderful ‘something’ about being ordinary and also ‘seeing’ through it all.
The oddest thing of all, is that everyone probably ‘does this’ many times a day, without realizing its significance.
I really don’t understand why these ‘teachers’ walk around with an ‘air’ about them. It is such a ‘dead give away’. Still, let’s not re-open that can of worms too often, eh.
Posted by Randall Friend on 02.09.09 11:46 pm
It is not about atheism or any religion – an “I” who believes in an external, separate God or not…
It is about recognizing the inherent and obvious intelligence which is not only the form of the appearance but is the movement – the essence of what appears is God or Intelligence. Impersonal functioning, apparently manifesting as the Universe and all it contains – yet that manifestation is not the product of God, who then sits on His cloud and directs from above… this manifestation IS God or Consciousness itself – seemingly playing itself from the “inside” – aware of itself, never separated into parts and pieces.
When this intelligence is knowing itself we call that Consciousness or Awareness – the function or activity of knowing – obvious and clearly present right now.
Identified consciousness is simply that Intelligence, through the veil of thoughts, apparently seeing separation, yet this is ONLY apparently.
Right now, you are not seeing a separate world. It is only an assumption in thought. Where is that separation? Where are the boundaries?
The SEEING that Gilbert talks about is that Intelligence, aware of itself, right now. This is fully present NOW yet overlooked because of this assumed separation, this assumed subject called “ME” that is seeing – this is the subject/object equation – mind only.
If we look with honesty, we see no separation, we see no “ME” seeing… we see the false claim of the mind. Yet in seeing this false claim, we realize that the “ME” that is “doing” the seeing is part of this false claim, that there is no real separation and no “ME” seeing – SEEING is happening – Consciousness seeing itself.
This is actual experience, not some philosophical or religious postulation. Yet we see through our concepts of separation. This is the only so-called “barrier”.
Right now, you are Consciousness, God seeing Himself. There is nothing you need to do to BE this. At some point, the false assumptions may fall away, revealing direct reality, yet if they never do, so what?
Does God stop being God simply because He’s somehow forgotten He’s God? Does He need to find Himself?
Posted by Margo on 02.10.09 1:33 am
Gilbert,
After almost a year of reading and listening to UGC I had many little realizations and flashes of understanding.
This side for the first time made it clear what I was after- what was I looking for.
For 20 years I was reading books and it totally escaped me what this ‘spirituality’ was about.
It took Your clear,precise and persistent pointing without any unnecessary confusion for the ‘bigger ‘realization to happen.
It must of been ‘something in the air’ yesterday because as Robin above said, I too realize what SEEING was. Many times I was thinking -either I am very slow, retarded or Gilbert is crazy with this Seeing? Last night I woke-up in the middle of the night and I knew that the world (scene) was appearing in the seeing, I WAS (AM) THIS SEEING. There was (am) ONLY seeing happening and ‘my’ body was in it. The thoughts did not belong to this body,but were as well appearing in seeing. As you said so many times -there was only Seeing happening and I was this seeing,everything appeared in this Seeing! There was (is) no ‘me’ or any entity in this body – all thoughts were appearing on the ‘screen of awareness’ that I was. They appear in the reference to the believed ‘me’ entity.
It was finally clear what you were talking about all this time.
I have so many questions,but they seem crazy and I don’t even know how to ask them.
Like,does the world even exists if everything appears in the seeing? The belief before was that there was the world out there and I – the body – was (is) in it. I was looking at the world – I was in the world. Now, everything appears in the seeing.
Is there a world as such or is there just Seeing happening?
Who is really reading and understanding those pages of different combination of 1 and 0, that could not possibly contain any information?
Am I this Knowing appearing to read this text?
You don’t have to answer this.
If this is realization, then THANK YOU Gilbert for your relentless pointing,it would not have happened without you and UGC.
If I am just imagining things then just ignore-it. Thanks. (editor: The ‘I’ is imagined to have qualities it does not have)
Posted by milton on 02.10.09 1:37 am
Apparently God may have a need to find himself because He/She finds the the prospect of living indefinitely in a world of false assumptions to be somewhat like quenching one’s thirst with sand. Knowing that “revealing direct reality” is possible makes immersion in false assumptions somewhat unbearable.
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.10.09 1:59 am
Flashes of grace as time stands still, driven by a “Higher” will.
What’s happening Now and ‘who’ realized what seeing was?
This too shall pass and this and this….ad infinitum…..
The “hanging” on to this “experience” will obscure the newest miracle….
The mind always comes in to interpret the “experience”…..
The “Seeing” happened way before Gilbert and UGC…..It was never Not*~*!
Gilbert holds up the “You Are Here” sign and we thank him…
Weren’t you here Prior to seeing the sign?
Ahh, The Wonder and Mystery…. Is it Here or are you looking for it, somewhere, back there, last night… how could I have forgotten, It Was So Clear……
This is exactly what happened here in the search, a thousand such “experiences” and each one, totally meaningful and completely meaningless, when “Seen” in the light of This Here Happening Now and Now and Now. The rapture can be addicting and hanging out in the “Nothingness” completely blissful…………
What doesn’t go away when the experience fades, as they all do, by their very nature?
Posted by Randall Friend on 02.10.09 2:19 am
Milton,
It is the false assumption of separation that leads to this apparent need of God finding Himself – who is living under these assumptions? Who needs to quench their thirst?
All that seems to happen is that these false assumptions fall away naturally in the realization that they are false. Can we say that anything actually happened?
The unbearable situation is only created in the intellect – this intellect is appearing in pure Consciousness, pure unidentified SEEING. You are not the intellect – the intellect appears TO YOU.
Your true nature is ALREADY God – the Totality – the Intelligence – if there is a false identification or not, what is the difference except conceptually?
Posted by howdie on 02.10.09 3:29 am
this question is for everyone here, and is a good i think and fits into what is being currently discussed
the question is: what to each of you believe is the “gain” from awakening or enlightenment?
i wanted to ask that question openly, for the standard respponse from many will be- well there is no you, so you will get nothing from enlightenment, etc.
BUT
if that is really what one thought, they would never talk about it, never discuss it, never mention it, never ask questions about it. to point towards it for others, means there is something that the “insidvidual person” feels has merit or value to go there.
it is a hard quesstion to wrap in words, but is one that i think wouuld be really interesting to examine. why point towards realization of one’s true nature- the question becomes,, why suggest anyone go there at all?
curious
thanks
Posted by Andy on 02.10.09 3:54 am
Here’s one thing which confuses ‘me’. There is apparently a false set of beliefs which are labeled ‘I’ ‘me’ ‘Jim’ etc and there is ‘knowing/seeing’ or whatever you want to call reality. The knowing cannot be confused because it is knowing, and that which believes itself to be a separate self is surely too ignorant to see it’s own falseness. But, at least to ‘me’, there seems to be a third element, that which seeks the truth because the falsity of the self is somehow perceived. It’s hard for me to see that the false self, or that which believes itself to be a self, would have discussions about it’s falseness and try to find what’s real.
Any help with this confusion would be appreciated
Posted by Sara on 02.10.09 3:59 am
NO GAIN
AND
NO LOSS
There is NO awakening or enlightenment because there is NO ONE to awake or gain!
Posted by howdie on 02.10.09 4:54 am
ok sara, there is the standard answer
and it is seen as such
but the question then is- so what?
see why talk about it, suggest it or point to it for anyone,
that is becoming the real dilema in my world righht now
why mention the idea at all?
why even have a web site like this going
if that is REALLY one’s answer, then all of this should be dumped into the amazon
if not, then people see a VALUE- so that’s the question i guess
what value does even acknowledging something like realizing one’s true nature hav to you-
see?
Posted by Robin on 02.10.09 5:09 am
abbocarnu,
Exactly!…the mind came almost immediately to interpret the experience…and “I” tried to stop it! How funny is that? The mind comtemplated and chatted all night about this so called “experience”. So thank you so much for the pointer of “This Here Happening Now and Now and Now…” Although “I” have to admit, somewhere there is a sense of not being able to “unsee” what no one has “seen”. Wow!
Posted by nathan on 02.10.09 5:40 am
howdie,
most people don’t give a rat’s ass about this. they believe what they have been told from childhood…they accept authority and are lost in politics or religion or materialism…maybe they ‘think’ that life just is as it is, there is pain, occasional happiness…maybe a moment or two where REAL peace peaks in, but it is fleeting and quickly associated with whatever dependence they’re into. most people ‘believe’ that they are their thoughts. or at least the ‘one’ in control of their thoughts.
this is so easily and quickly dismantled that it’s fucking startling!
life IS as it is…but it’s NOT what you think! it’s a revelation…an ending of searching and suffering…a complete stop to the neurosis of the past or future…a re-discovery of the part of ‘you’ that is incapable of being hurt!…but it’s the death of the person you ‘think’ you are….and who wants that?
robin,
this is exactly when “I” was seen to be the faker that it is! wanting to repeat the ‘experience’…wanting to ‘claim’ it….how extraordinarily bold!!!! ha!!!!
Posted by Margo on 02.10.09 5:48 am
Howdie,
as it has been pointed before ‘you’ can not choose to take the ‘path’-it chooses you. Despite myself I have engage in the search for meaning and understanding.
I have been led step by step to this moment.
Many times I had enough and wanted to just live normal life without understanding but I could not,the desire to know was stronger and more persistent.
Some people get involved because it is ‘cool’ or out of curiosity or to have something to talk about and some don’t have a choice.The drive is stronger than discomfort associated with this knowledge.
One can not just quit and be ok with not knowing.
Posted by Robin on 02.10.09 6:14 am
Nathan,
Yes, an extraordinarily bold “I”! But there is something comical about it too…
Margo,
My sentiments exactly on some strong drive “running” the show which will not let “one” stop the search for understanding…So many “stories” come with trying to resist it like “that’s it, “I” am not doing this anymore” or “I must be insane to keep reading this”…yet, it apparently continues…what a mystery…
Posted by nathan on 02.10.09 6:42 am
oh yeah…and as far as gain or loss goes…
lose your mind and come to your senses
lose yourself and see that the whole universe appears in you
how can you possibly desire that which is not separate from you to begin with?
and robin…comical indeed! i ‘gained’ about two days worth of side splitting belly laughs!! honestly it still cracks me up…this ‘seeing’ never was not!
and abbocarnu…that middle sentence in my last post was for you…sometimes gently placed expletives just cry out for usage…
Posted by abbocarnu on 02.10.09 7:11 am
Love it Nate
Posted by Georgew on 02.10.09 7:39 am
Howdie, you wrote, ‘
‘that is becoming the real dilema in my world righht now
why mention the idea at all?’
The as you call it “real dilema” seems to be appearing because you think there is someone who has a dilema.
There is no one to have a dilema & no one to gain anything….
The mind wants to gather stories but after you read all the stories. Ask yourself WHO wants there not to be a dilema & who ask the question about gain?
Posted by nathan on 02.10.09 8:28 am
if i may be permitted one last short burst here…here is a quote i read in a work of fiction some months back that has stuck firmly in my craw…and seems to have been suddenly resolved…
‘all sensation is memory’
it didn’t really make sense, but had that ‘ring’ to it….i mean how can something as seemingly ‘direct’ as a punch in the face or having great sex be abstracted to the likes of memory…
i think memory may be the wrong word…but Gilbert in one of his previous posts wrote the word ‘presence’ as “pre-sense” …
geez…seems so obvious now that i’m writing….clearly, even the senses are dependent upon the awareness that is present…sensations are in time…they come and go…and if not held onto by memory then isn’t that the end to fear and desire!?
alright…that’s enough from me!
Posted by gilbert on 02.10.09 9:03 am
In the appearance of ‘things’, seekers are a sorry lot. They cannot stand it if someone appears to ‘get it’ before they do, or so it seems.
Because the imagined ‘prize’ is so longed for, day and night, they repeatedly over look what is already here as pure presence.
Gurdjieff says in a humorous tone: “If you want to lose your faith, make friends with a priest”.
When the grapes are ripe……bliss……..
Sour grapes for the wingers, stragglers and burglars………..?
In the name of your God……….? The ‘me’ THINKS it can SEE.
EVERY THING appears in the SEEING. The ground of being, the seed, the germination and the fruit of the vine – the ripe AND the unripe.
There is no you to know – yet you must KNOW…(There is Knowing)….the difference BEFORE – prior to consciousness.
EVERY THING appears in the SEEING. Full Stop.
…………”but………but………but………but……………..oh”
Oddly enough, it is all outlined in my first book “The First Instant”. There was a lot of ‘Kerphufle’ over its publication. I ended up organizing it myself. 7 or 8 years ago now, maybe a hundred copies have sold. Much of the book is now freely download-able as an e-book from my website. The thing is, the clearest ‘pointing’ can be made over and over – There is no guarantee that it will be HEARD. When it is heard, there is no mistake about it. Don’t let anyone try to rob you of your direct insight into your own true nature – they will try, that is for sure.
The new program will appear very soon – Enjoy – U.G.- G.
Posted by Ralph on 02.10.09 12:33 pm
“EVERY THING appears in the SEEING” including ‘NOT SEEING IT’.
so I ask, what is one to do if ‘direct seeing’ is not seen ? is there work to be done ? do we just accept it? do nothing ? wait ? …. come on tell me , what does one do ? please tell me ? …. and pleaasssse don’t tell me there is nothing you can do, which of course is ultimately true but not until ‘it is seen’ and never before.
So the good news is that there is something you can do until the ‘direct seeing’ is SEEN by nobody.
Now seek to see that seeking is what stands in the way of true seeing.
Posted by gilbert on 02.10.09 12:52 pm
What could not seeing be?
There is ONLY SEEING. There is no ‘not seeing’ – that is the mind telling you ‘I don’t see this’. Cast it aside. A thought cannot SEE.
SEEING is not ‘doing’. There is no one to ‘do anything’.
There is no one to tell YOU this.
The mind wants to know and the mind can never be the KNOWING.
The Knowing is NOT in the mind – it ONLY appears to be in the mind.
The search is the problem.
Who says “Please…….don’t tell me”?
The ‘ME’ does not have the capacity of understanding anything at all.
It is just a parrot that appears to have learned to talk.
A parrot can say ‘I am THAT’ but can the parrot KNOW what it means?
No. But the parrot is the KNOWING according to being a parrot – yet the parrot does not know it is a parrot. It could be an elephant and the equation would be the same.
The ‘label’ elephant is just a label.
ONE BEING appears as all beings.
There is only ONE seeing – one knowing – one being.
You are THAT.
To seek to see that seeking stands in the way is just more seeking. Be the seeing only.
Exhaustion will bring relaxation. So SEEK as hard as you can, until all the energy of seeking is used up – fall in a heap on the floor – when the body recovers, the mind will be empty – so BEFORE the mind regains its habit of seeking – SEE that there is no seeking happening. Get a very good glimpse of that and cast away the habit.
The irony is that this clear presence of no seeking is actually present NOW.
It is only the mind that tells you there is something missing.
Listen to the program again. Do I have to jump through your mind hoops over and over until you put them down and give up on this search, which is so painful for YOU?
Warm regards – Gilbert.
Posted by Ralph on 02.10.09 1:25 pm
Gilbert, my friend, I promise you that I do not want to be a GURU because ‘thinking’ I am a GURU is the biggest ego trip there is but I can tell you that physcological suffering is what caused me alot of pain and if I can share my insights with others, and help others in any way, I am driven to do so.
Now this is not a personal attack but what I noticed in your pointers is although they point to the Absolute truth, it lacks compassion and aliveness. This is how it is seen over here. So, lets see how this all turns out.
Posted by Randall Friend on 02.10.09 1:31 pm
The only thing that happens is the mind surrenders to it’s own not-knowing. There is no additional knowledge, no special spiritual states, no one to do anything about it. There is an unchosen surrender that happens due to the futility of the search – due to the fact that there really isn’t anyone seeking after all. The search is bound to fail because the seeker is nonexistent. How many times can you ask “who am I”?
In this openness of surrender, this exhaustion of concepts – reality is allowed to shine through. Assumptions fall away under their own weight.
Direct reality is always seen – always already clear and obvious. You are not seeing separation now – it is the mind or intellect that stands on this assumption yet it’s only ever an assumption.
You don’t pull together that which WAS separate through seeking or clear seeing. Separation never existed. The false assumption simply falls away. There is no need for clear seeing. It already IS.
Right now, nonduality is already obvious. There is no ME seeing a world. There is only the seeing, right now. That’s already reality. That’s already clear and obvious. The intellect presupposes separation and that’s the conceptual prism which SEEMS to create separation. Yet it’s never ACTUALLY separate. Experience RIGHT NOW is not separate – no ME seeing – only ever SEEING, only ever pure Consciousness.
Look right now – right this very instant – what IS, is Consciousness. The “world out there” and “ME in here seeing” is false. Already. The SEEING contains both the seer and the seen… Already.
Just look. Nothing more is needed.
Posted by gilbert on 02.10.09 1:38 pm
There is nothing lacking.
The mind through habit tells you that there is something lacking. The two and fro may well be of some ‘apparent’ benefit to some. So be it. We can stir up a bucket of water for as long as we wish – but it will settle down and return to stillness.
The essence of the Absolute nature of the ‘message’ is like writing on water. It lasts a fraction of ‘time’ yet it is Eternal.
Posted by Margo on 02.10.09 2:07 pm
Ralph,
You don’t need Gilbert’s compassion but you do need his clarity and precision of relentless pointing.
His relentless and ‘obsessive repetition’ of the same phrases gave ‘me’ the idea to do the same, repeat what he was saying!
My glimpses into seeing happened through exactly what Gilbert is suggesting-mind exhaustion!
I was almost literally bouncing of the walls repeating all the time;
- there is no ‘me’ in this body,
there is no separate entity here,
the eyes cannot see,
the ears cannot hear,
there is only seeing happening,
I am that seeing, I am pure functioning,
there is no seer, no seen, only seeing.
Where is the seeing happening? – where am I? – over and over day after day.
I guess my mind just got enough and stop. After it happened it was so obvious and clear and simple – the seeing is always here, it is the basic function (normally identify with the body-mind). This is what I did-maybe it is crazy but it gave me the insight.
Posted by gilbert on 02.10.09 3:32 pm
All of the functioning ‘appears’ in the SEEING.
The SEEING has no form whatsoever. That is why pure SEEING has no bias or partiality.
It is beyond the beyond, yet it is right here, right now – always so.
If you imagine that I am making this stuff up as I go along, you are gravely mistaken.
To labor over such expressions would be agonizing. They simply appear, just like your own thoughts appear.
Posted by will on 02.10.09 7:30 pm
Randall says, above:
“The only thing that happens is the mind surrenders to it’s own not-knowing. There is no additional knowledge, no special spiritual states, no one to do anything about it.”
This is absolutely spot on, utterly clear, unblievably simple.
The mind surrenders to its own not-knowing. That’s your lot. No mind-story about how this IS or how this can be demonstrated, need follow. Understanding is all – not interpretation.
Mind gets why it can’t get. It’s enough. A very high likelihood of hoots of laughter here.
Once seen, can’t be un-seen. Understanding SEEMS to deepen – mind’s habitual bluster letting up is all. Seen through.
Never been otherwise. More hoots, wet eyes. Gateless gate – of course…….
Gilbert, keep punching. No mercy.
Gratitude.
Posted by Robin on 02.11.09 2:00 am
Yes, SUDDENLY the “gig is up”! And something appears to be revealed…or “flipped”.
It seems exactly as Randall says, “The ONLY thing that happens is the mind surrenders to it’s not-knowing.”
Yes, tears, laughter yet, at the same time “no big deal”!
Posted by gilbert on 02.11.09 9:59 am
Sounds right.
No big deal – ordinary awareness reveals itself to be the great prize that everyone overlooks.
‘We’ got the idea, from somewhere, that there is a ‘special awareness’, a ‘higher awareness’ to achieve.
From this ordinary awareness, the view is clear – nothing can trick us any more.
The fancy guru is revealed to be ‘a prancing rooster in a hen house’. Amusing, but no longer of much interest. The ‘time will come’, to roast him on a spit and have a party.
Posted by Dee Crapper on 02.11.09 11:36 pm
Where is the Love?? I’ve been reading these posts for a while now. I see lots of statements that contain the word “bull crap” and the like. I’ve also heard talking about other teachers not teaching “right”. And lots of other statements that come across as sounding like ..”I”VE got it right and THEY don’t’.
( >sigh< I know, I know you don’t call yourselves ‘teachers’ and yet all this teaching is appearing.) I read people who say things like “So What, Who cares?” I have a sincere question.. Do any of you ‘people’ who have seen your are no ‘person’ do things that help ‘other’ ‘people’. I mean like help feed the starving or help shelter the homeless, or care for the orphans and the old? Are do you just say ‘Who cares?’ “WHO is homeless?’ “WHO is hungry”? I mean this with respect. I am NOT saying your guys are “wrong” or trying to pick a fight. I am just curious about how you see things when it comes to helping those in need. And also if there really is “nothing to get’ and ”no one to get it” wouldn’t time be well spent doing something besides creating a website that seems to be trying to teach what can not be taught. And if you really wanted to stop the “seeker” from seeking then why not just put one podcast instead of several. What’s the difference in what you are doing and the ‘teachers’ who write lots of books. Which seems to be something that is not applauded here. Again, these are sincere questions. Thank you.
Posted by gilbert on 02.12.09 12:14 am
Where is the love in the name you have chosen to call yourself? – Dee Crapper?
Where is the sincerity in that? All these intellectual postulations and pointing the finger are a waste of time, are they not? Are they any different to what anyone else is doing?
We are talking about Non Duality. The love most talk about is dualistic love and its opposite, hate.
Love in Non Duality terms is Light. Pure energy. Love is your very nature – it is the being-ness that you ARE. It shows itself as a ‘loving to be’.
If you cannot recognize it, how can someone else point it out to you? Yet this may happen.
The League of Nations was formed to bring harmony to the world and stop wars. Did it achieve that? They ended up arguing about HOW to stop the wars and the whole thing was abandoned. Good intentions are not enough. Once you know your own true nature, then there is intelligence beyond the limited minds capacity and its concept of being separate. Many ‘intelligent souls’ have tried to change humanity. Change yourself – then see what you SEE. The world is inside of you. You are not inside the world.
Your estimations are based on erroneous data and at the center of that data base is a ‘me’. It is the problem. Understand that first.
There is no one here trying to help anyone and yet help may happen one way or another.
All we provide is programs that present a series of ‘pointers’. There are no teachers here and there are no pupils.
Everything is appearing in equanimity.
Why applaud the writers of voluminous books? Most of them suggest time bound concepts and a false hope of future deliverance. Like we all go to heaven if we are good.
What is true is simple. In five minutes, what needs to be pointed out can be done. The only problem is that few actually ‘hear’ or wish to hear what is being pointed out. So, many programs are presented from different speakers, with different ‘pointing’. Someone may resonate with one presenter and not the others. Besides that, it is all just spontaneously happening prior to ‘good or bad’. Did you truly decide to own your opinions – or did they just appear by themselves?
So-called ‘people’ who use fictional names to make their comments are hiding behind a facade. Get real my friend. If you do have some genuine and sincere questions, come out from behind you bushel and let’s talk it over. Where is the love? Jesus wept.
Posted by Dee Crapper on 02.12.09 4:40 am
You would have to ask my parents about the name. That is my name. And I don’t even know what “intellectual postulations” means. I was not trying to point a finger as you say. I was asking asking sincere questions and I apologize if you felt attacked. That was not my intention. You have also assumed my name to be fictional. (Although I can understand why.) Like it or not it is a REAL name. And the questions I asked were sincere and …maybe it’s just me but I didn’t feel they were unanswered. I will re-read your post and see if I missed something. And what would it have mattered if I had used a fictional name or not? If I had used the name “Dee Jones” would you have responded differently? And yet THAT would have been a fictional name. I will listen to more podcasts and read more comments to see if I am mistaken but with the most respect I can muster…I am just saying that This site seems to be more like…”Do as I say, not as I do.” My pet parrot can bark but that does not make him a dog.
Posted by Dee Crapper on 02.12.09 5:18 am
Thank you for you post. The questions did indeed seem to be answered somewhat and I appreciate your time to do so. There just seems to still be a lack of love, something not “ringing true” in the post that I read here. I would like to gently ask, is there a possibility that there is a certain love and gentleness lacking there? In myself I’ve noticed in myself that when love and gentleness are missing ego is in the driver’s seat and mind is running the show. No ill will intended from here to there. And thank you for the time and effort of putting these pod casts out. I have certainly enjoyed passing the time listening to them. And they are very professional indeed. PS. Again I understand you believing my name to be fiction. Trust me, it is an issue I’m not unfamiliar with.
Posted by Robin on 02.12.09 5:56 am
Gilbert,
I have to say it: It’s good to see that projections still exist even for the “no one” who has seen through the game! No way out…the manifestation appears…the movie projector projects…
Posted by gilbert on 02.12.09 9:32 am
There is no love lacking here. If you are looking for love and finding it missing – maybe you are looking in the wrong place. It isn’t ‘out there’ somewhere.
There is absolutely no concern here about what anyone thinks or says about ‘me’ – or about anything at all. Apparent concern may appear to arise. There is KNOWING that I am not these things that appear and disappear.
My condolences on the name. The word is just a word.
As for the ‘projector’ concept: What you are is prior to the light, the projector, the screen and the film. The character ‘me’ is appearing in the film.
I still can’t believe that anyone would name their child ‘dee crapper’ – but as they say ‘shit happens’.
If we were to start talking about LOVE, the site would be ten times more popular – yet it is far too ‘sticky’ a ‘subject’ for so many. There are so many other ‘points’ that ‘need’ to be addressed.
It is only a ‘me’ that can be offended. Can’t find one HERE. How about there?
Posted by Margo Moran on 02.13.09 4:51 pm
Dee, you are definitely missing the love that is here. What do you call it when someone builds a site like this and gives it freely. The whole purpose of it seems to be to share the intelligence which might lead others out of suffering.
Looks like love to me.
Posted by gilbert on 02.13.09 5:24 pm
There will always be a few who gripe and moan. It is what they do, or appear to do.
Don’t pay it much attention. They will find endless things in their world to moan and groan about. Some of them won’t be happy until God, with his long white beard comes down out of the sky and agrees to teach them ‘personally’.
Love is the spark of life, it beats your heart. It isn’t hard to find – but if you ignore it in your own immediate presence, you won’t find it anywhere else. You may imagine it elsewhere, but that is imagination. Love is not imagination. Romantic love is imaginary love – and it ends up on the rocky shores of reality in tatters. Oh, and by the way, Happy Valentine’s day all you ‘lovers’ of ‘The beloved’.