28. John Greven – One Presence-Awareness *****
Areti interviews John Greven. John is a ‘straight shooter’. Easy to listen to – no jargon to wade through. Just recognize what is pointed out.
John’s website is Oneness.
Music by The Alan Parsons Project, a band called The Horseflies and Flamenco Arabe.
Yes it is all FREE and it has to be that way. No one is excluded by any intention on our part. For those who can easily afford to donate, a newly introduced Donation Tab appears on this site – top of front page (very small icon) near the contact icon and another at the bottom left hand side of comment pages. If you truly appreciate this site, please feel free to support the continuation of the Urban Guru Cafe. It is a non-profit project. Those who do donate ensure that these programs continue, for themselves, and for everyone. All inclusive is the nature of Non Duality.
Welcome to the new program. Don’t forget the UGC appears on Californian Radio on the 24th of Feb. 4pm-5pm. Enjoy – warm regards – Gilbert.
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Let me begin by thanking you Gilbert and Areti for all these wonderful podcasts in such a wonderful format! On top of all the amazing pointers, I’ve discovered (or re-discovered) some great music! I truly appreciate all the hard work you have put into this.
John Greven is very clear in the way he expresses this and I love the simple way he expresses himself.
I could quite see that awareness is still there even after the pausing of the thoughts and that everything registers on this awareness.
It is difficult however to see that “there is no one here” and that “it is all one” since over here, there is still a body that follows me around as well as thoughts , feelings and points of view that seem to be uniquely “mine” over here. “Others”cannot feel what I feel or see what i see. If there is physical pain here where I am, for example, it cannot be felt by anyone else. This makes this brain here to conclude that these things are unique to “me”, thus creating a feeling of separatedness.
Through self enquiry, I could see how one is not the body or the thoughts somehow but the fact that I am not the bodies or thoughts “out there” creates confusion when these messages are heard.
I’m sure you’ve heard all of this before and I will definitely listen to this podcast more than once.
Once again, many thanks for your site.
chris
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Thank you, Areti and Gilbert, for your work in creating this website and the wonderful podcasts. I want you to know that you make a valueable contribution to my life and through me to many more. It is so generous of you to make this available for free.
The Internet is a fantastic technology that allows us to communicate freely across the globe. I hope this will help many more to see the deep truth.
I especially enjoyed when Catherine Harding did the experiment with closed eyes and also the simple explanations from John Wheeler about the guru game.
Lots of love to you and to all other listeners and readers of this web site!
From Mona in Sweden
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As above, many thanks (Areti and Gilbert) for doing this and being here
As ever, really enjoyed John’s words which led me to a paraphrase of the show as I see it…
No-One is in control of the brain or…
The brain is in control of No-One
ME sleeps and dies… ‘I’ don’t.
Me is only created in the mind.
Once upon a time, in 4th Century BC, Chuang Chou, dream’t he was a butterfly…
ME invented language because ME needs it… ‘I’ don’t use it.
Me seeks… ‘I’ don’t, because ‘I’ can’t.
‘Everything’ is a load of labels created by mind.
‘I’ is… Me is not.
‘I’ is present awareness.
Again “BIG” thanks for the show
The Nutter from Nottingham
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Each one ‘of us’ is unique, a unique expression of the ONE. The ONE is Cosmic and all inclusive.
The Oneness is seemingly fragmented by thought. The ‘thinker’ is a thought. Retrace this thought ‘I think’ or any thought, back to its origins.
In SEEING that the ‘thinker’ is a thought ( “I think” ) so the SEEING is from beyond that believed in ‘thinker’. Taste this as often as is necessary.
There is only ONE Awareness. The impressions in a child before it has learned language do not suggest separation. It is the thoughts ‘me and other than me’ that is the sense of separation. If you drop these thoughts for even a moment, non conceptual awareness is clear of the dream. The dream of separation is made of thoughts about separation, about ‘me’. They are harmless so long as they are not believed in as being what I am.
This radical insight cannot be contrived. It is in essence simply pure seeing.
Seeing is happening right now. When the thought is stopped for whatever ‘reason’ or by whatever ‘shock’ this non conceptual awareness (seemingly) comes to the foreground.
It is formless and beyond the limited realms of the body and the mind.
No on can convince you of this. It MUST be the direct and immediate experienc-ING.
It is happening right now – but the habit of identifying oneself as what the mind is translating is the ‘problem’.
If a taste of this naked experiencing happens – it cannot be mistaken – but the mind will re-appear and a story will most likely start up and the old habit of believing that this is what I am draws one back into that stale old belief pattern.
There is no benefit in me telling you all this. I am not asking for anything in return.
There is no ‘I’ here wishing you to believe what is being said. It is NEVER a matter of belief.
However, something of what is pointed out just may register cleanly right there beyond the habitual minds rantings and ravings.
There is KNOWING here that what is being pointed out in this program, and in what I am expressing here, is true, as true as can be expressed here in words. If I or someone else were asking you for something in return, your devotion, a fee, or for you to attend some retreats, send some gifts, or for you to bow and scrape when some ‘I’ walks in the room, then you may have a genuine concern about what is being pointed out by them.
But nothing is being asked of you here. This information is free – not only because to put some extraneous conditions upon it would be erroneous and unwarranted, but because its very nature is a ‘pointing’ at freedom. Freedom is not a ‘thing’. It is the spontaneous nature of all appearances. Nothing gets stuck anywhere, just as light does not accumulate or get blocked, stagnated or stale. Ever fresh is the nature of our existence.
This UGC is an incentive to spread a clear message that the GURU GAME is OVER.
It is everyone’s RIGHT to KNOW the truth about their OWN true nature.
What is the cost? There is only one as I see it. Face the fear of being nothing.
This No Thing is suffused with KNOWING. It will NEVER betray you and it is the ONLY ‘thing’ you can trust – because it is what you ARE.
The message may touch millions of souls and cast away the dream of separation – what benefit is it to me. I am free and there are no degrees to this freedom. There is NO MORE freedom that what there already IS. The only difference is that right here where I appear to be, there are no beliefs whatsoever. This is totally available to you right NOW – just BE the SEEING and be nothing other than THAT.
There is no separation. Full Stop.
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From one dream character to another…. Spot On John
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“What is the cost? There is only one as I see it. Face the fear of being nothing.
This No Thing is suffused with KNOWING. It will NEVER betray you and it is the ONLY ‘thing’ you can trust – because it is what you ARE.”
That is so beautiful. Thank you Gilbert, Areti, and all the participants for these wonderful podcasts!
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I hope my questions make sense to you. I found your site interesting and these were the things I was wondering about:
Do people who come to understand what you speak of find it important to get together and speak of this often so that the thoughts don’t cover over what they have seen. Or do most people see this and move on and live as if they never saw.
Is it kinda like a religion where you see this and then must act like it and tell others?
If there is nothing in the machine (body) then why even be here or do anything? It means everything we have been taught is a BIG FAT LIE!
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This is not a religion and THIS is not about Belief or Habitual Faith.
‘People’ do not come to understand anything. A ‘person’ is just a believed in bunch of thoughts – it has no power or capacity to know anything.
You KNOW that you are – that is not a belief – it is knowing.
What you may believe you are is a belief which ‘appears’ in the knowing. The beliefs may shift and change a million times – yet the knowing remains as it is.
Build your house on the ROCK, not upon the shifting sands.
There are no permanent STATES to achieve. The ‘guru’s’ postulated ‘higher state’ is a prison of his own making – and he suffers because of it – that is why he needs companions, devotees – to ease his or her suffering. It is all nonsense and ‘lovey dovey’ sentiment. Wake up from the delusions of being a seeker.
There is no becoming to Reality.
There is no time for anything to become anything other than what it is, IN.
Reality IS.
There is no choice: “To be or not to be”
Being IS. That which is not, will never be. That which IS is eternal.
It is only in the appearance of ‘things’ that a believed in ‘form’ (a seeker) is seemingly lost or confused – or seeking clarity of vision.
SEEING is already happening and the light of Knowing is unobstructed.
The apparent obstruction is the believed in ‘Idea’ of ‘Me’.
Like a mushroom, it ‘grows’ in darkness. When the light of knowing shines on it, it shrivels up and disappears – leaving only an ephemeral trace behind.
There is a saying from ancient days: “Don’t hide your light under a bushel”.
‘When’ (which is always NOW) the bushel is cast aside, the light of KNOWING shines in all directions.
Nothing is obscured ‘anymore’. You may find yourself in a massive field of bushels, each one hiding a light behind it. As you ‘wander’ through this field, other ‘lights’ see this motion of freedom from behind their hiding place – and they venture out from behind ‘their’ bushel. This is already happening – and thousands are lighting up the field – it is like ‘Carols by candlelight’ – have you not noticed? Join in this display and shine your light.
All this is entertainment here on the UGC.
Molecules dancing about, creating a display, an endless display. What lies behind the eyes of the beholder?
“If you want to SEE the truth, then ‘hold’ no opinion for or against anything”.
Big fat lies? There is no water in the mirage. ‘They’ told us there was water there – some (fat gurus) even asked for a fee before we could drink from ‘the well’ and we have been duped – but not by anyone but ourselves.
By believing in another’s light, we remain behind the bushel.
Step out from behind your delusions and beliefs – be nakedly aware. The fears of exposure will fall away and ‘the truth’ will no longer be a stranger to you.
‘The truth’ is not an object – it is what you ARE.
OK..so let’s see some comments flying. I will be quiet for awhile. I will put the ‘hammer’ down.
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Man, when I heard this was a buddy of Chuckie Smog’s (Charlie Hayes), I must admit I had absolutely zero hopes for this podcast. But this turned out to be seriously happening…
A straight shooting, non-sophisticated, articulate American takes a killer stab at it. And Gilbert’s musical interludes were not overbearing for a change — and to think I always hated the appearance arising as The Alan Parsons Project!
Surprise indeed — three thumbs up, 5 1/2 stars!
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Yep Con Queso, this was a good one indeed. And Gilbert’s comments are outstanding. I’ve already forwarded this site to a few friends a while back, I think I’m going to share it with a few more…
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Share it….share it….share it……tell all your friends about it. Ride the Wave.
It is just starting to get some ‘umph’ behind it. Some great new stuff will continue to appear and disappear. – OK, enough said. – U.G. Krishnagilbert…ha.
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WOW thank you Gilbert for making it clearer. I could see that if one steps out of the ‘me’ and see what or who one truly is, ie the awareness, the seeing, then that seeing is the same as all the so called ‘others’ seeing. I guess it’s like what Catherine Harding said: “one light and many lamps”. I was focusing on the ‘many lamps’ part.
At the moment a thought arises that this awareness is still localized, and belongs only to ‘me’ but I will continue to retrace this “I think” thought.
I’m hooked on this café. Will be coming back often. Can I have a short espresso? With just a little foam on top?
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The ‘me’ is a thought. A thought is a vibration, energy, a movement, a pattern appearing.
The energy of belief seemingly gives these patterns an apparent ‘separate life’. All this is fine – and not ‘a problem’ – but if one believes that this pattern that is appearing is what I am, then that is where it so often turns into ‘trouble’ because as soon as anything confronts this pattern, and they certainly will appear to, then its situation is tenuous. If this ‘image’ of ‘me’ vibrates into a ‘negative’ pattern, then the appearance of suffering or conflicting reference points in mind draw the energy into a battle. This ‘creates’ or ’causes’ inflicted emotions to arise. But once this ‘me’ has been recognized clearly, it can’t be believed in any longer – so the conflict or battle has no ‘form’ to attach itself to. It is extremely simple – but most will not believe it is simple – they THINK that they ‘know it’ as being very complex and as an almost inescapable situation. But as I say, the way out is NEVER through the belief system. The ONLY ‘way’ is through KNOWING. Knowing will always demolish beliefs simply because ALL beliefs are NOT the ACTUAL. KNOWING is the Actuality.
You KNOW that you ARE. Start with THAT.
Actually it is amazing how many times these things are clearly pointed out – yet few seem to grasp it. Amazing.
p.s. The stats are zooming since November. No shares in this company – no business – no product – no profit.
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Gilbert, would this be correct way of reasoning-thinking?
If eyes cannot see then who is it that is apparently looking?
It has to be the body-mind identify consciousness that beliefs it self to be separate and independent entity.
But separation is an illusion that happens only in the ‘dream of separation’.
So the individual looking only happens in the identify state-dream of separation.
In Reality there is only Awareness.
This ordinary awareness that I am (always) is the SEEING and the dream of separation ‘appears’ on (in) that seeing as mind’s interpretation.
So nobody is looking, there is only seeing happening and I -the ordinary awareness-am THAT.
The example that John Greven is using-of driving the car-would fit here.
Also,it seems to me that when you wake-up in the middle of the night – before the mind takes you on its ‘rehearsal’ of what happened yesterday and speculation of what may happen tomorrow – this ordinary state of awareness,this seeing,is very clear.
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What you ARE is the intelligence behind the appearance.
The belief in the appearance as being what you are is the error.
You cannot separate the images in a mirror from the mirror.
This awareness is like a mirror – everything that appears in the seeing cannot be separated from the SEEING. The thought ‘I see’ is the apparent ‘seer’ and the object named ‘out there’ is the ‘seen’ The seer and the seen cannot be separated from the SEEING.
They are the seeing in the same way the reflections in a mirror are the mirror and NOTHING but the mirror. You cannot deny that the reflections exist and yet you cannot grasp them either.
There is no answer in the mind. It is useless trying to work it out with the mind.
Simply be the seeing and nothing but the seeing.
Even if you try this for a few moments, it may well reveal something that you have over-looked since the age of 2 and a half or so. There is no separation. Separation is a concept – one that is fed everyday with more and more belief, simply because we never question it.
John’s program is well worth a second or third listen. Even more so. Plus many of the other programs here. It sinks in. Recognition happens. If you truly wish to understand and in giving this your every spare moment, it will bare fruit.
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Thanks so much for this podcast! It is so very clear & to the point.
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Gilbert,
I so needed to hear your post regarding energy patterns that appear and if we somehow attach to them then the battle begins…This was most apparent this morning when my husband “appeared” and the old patterns “came alive” and well, all I can say is that it was not pretty!!!
I read that Bob said something about these patterns have become so habitual that they can continue to appear for awhile…So it makes sense “here”, when it is recommended to just “stay” with the AWARENESS…Know what you REALLY are!
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Something appeared to become “clear” here regarding the metaphor of what you are is “the movie projector” and your so called appearance in form is “the film”…I now realize there is only ONE projector…
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Okay folks, now that Gilbert put down the hammer for a moment I wll say this:
“We have a fear of facing ourselves, that is the obstacle that stands in the way of true seeing”.
Oh shit! here he comes and this time he’s picking up the sledgehammer instead !!
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Gilbert,
May I suggest using that song “The Search is Over” from one of the cheesy 80′s bands known as Survivor, on one of your future podcasts? LOL That song is playing over and over in my head…and I’m wondering why “this form” would get to “hear” the cheesiest song ever! I even went so far as to listen to the original recording on youtube…Funny things are happening as always!
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the ‘fear’ IS ‘you’….see if it has any substance or validity
maybe it’s some sort of defense mechanism for this “I am loop”
which obviously would make it just as vaporous as all the other thoughts that pop up and then go away…looking directly at what fear is, is itself a fearless act…try to find it…does it really exist?
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Gilbert and Areti,
There are three GREAT websites on the Internet:
3. YouTube
2. Wikipedia
1. The Urban Guru cafe
Thank you from Toronto, Canada.
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Gilbert and Areti,
Is The Urban Guru Cafe coming to Canada someday? (Editor – if someone puts up the money – maybe we will go to many places – maybe even open up some ‘real’ cafe’s)
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1. Thank you so kindly for your opinion Ralph. The pattern that you believe is ‘You’ is such a great example and for anyone who has followed your contributions over the months, it will demonstrate so many of the points I have been outlining.
(There is always ‘one in a box’ or ‘in a family’)
So, for everyone else except Ralph, who refuses to SEE:
SEEING is not and can NEVER be an obstacle. To IMAGINE that is is an obstacle is one hell of an obstacle.
The label ‘seeing’ or ‘true seeing’ can of course be an obstacle – but only for the mind – not for the seeing. The obstacle ‘appears’ nowhere other than in the seeing and seeing is a prerequisite for the so-called ‘mind’ to operate, even in a rudimentary way.
It must be so frustrating there Ralph, to read some of the comments from those who ‘seem’ to ‘get it’.
Now doesn’t it ALL appear in the seeing? – Even the frustration? But WHERE is the frustration? Is it actually IN the seeing itself? Is it attached to the seeing – or does it go away – and leave the seeing clear and empty?
Where does the conflict appear? Isn’t it ‘after Ralph’ gets his hands on the info?
SEEING is always CLEAR – even if the eyes are closed. SEEING is not limited to the eyes.
No need for any sledgehammer. A small tap with a pencil is enough – the ‘story of me’ is made of ephemeral words and images.
2. Fear is simply energy appearing – it is the lumping the past experiences called ‘fear’ onto this immediate energy pattern that is appearing – that is what makes it unbearable.
If you do not label it – it stays as ‘what is’ – What IS without the burden of the past.
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nathan, there is no easy way out. It would be nice if the ‘pointers’ alone would do the trick but there is more to it than that. There is still a ‘you’ that needs to be investigated and that is to look ‘inward’ and see what’s there.
Again I say in addition to pointers, an ‘inward looking’ will help in the search of who you truly are. Of course, if there are no skeletons in your closet, then you are at freedom’s door, congratulations !
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Inward seeing – outward seeing – it is ALL SEEING. Of course the ‘pointer’ is just a pointer. It is the recognition of what is being pointed AT – that is the essence of it all.
If indeed you understood what you are saying, there wouldn’t be any issues over these points you make. Trying to make another see is useless. In speaking from the clear space of knowing ‘pointers’ arise. Whether they are ‘heard’ or not does not ‘interfere’ with the clear seeing. The source is not touch by whatever radiates from it.
Nothing that appears truly obscures the SEEING.
p.s. Details of the Californian Broadcast of the Urban Guru Cafe is on my website http://www.shiningthroughehtmind.net plus a promo spot
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Here is a point that may be of some use: Anyone who belongs to a particular religion will naturally have a biased view. Belonging to a religion automatically ‘excludes’ many others who don’t ‘belong’, others who need to be converted or saved. If this ‘I’ were to believe it was a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jain or Jew, then the comments here would be biased and laden with ‘leanings’ towards a particular view. There is no such thing as a ‘Non Dualist’ – it is just a rather silly label that is used.
Even so, beyond all that, each religion actually contains a clear non dual message, usually in the first part of the main text. All religions are equal.
The fact that so much conflict appears between these religions is not due to the core text of the religion. It is due to the misunderstanding of the message. It is also due to the additional text that has been added or translated incorrectly – which naturally brings more misunderstanding and even fundamental ‘differences of opinion’.
Look up the word religion is a good old traditional dictionary.
No membership is required to understand your true nature. It does not matter what your background is or appears to be. Anyone at all can recognize their own true nature.
It is more likely that a simple man or woman will recognize it, than one who is addicted to thrashing it all about in their intellect – true and clear understanding is not in the mind. Exhaustion from mental thrashing is an exception.
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APPARENT timeline of some apparent seeker:
Seeker enters school and is inundated with concepts, intuitively feels “something is not right…”
Seeker goes to college to study psychology. Something is not right.
Seeker becomes involved in Scientology. Something is not right.
Seeker looks into New Agey materials. Something is not right.
Seeker attends Byron Katie’s school. Something is not right.
Seeker listens to seemingly thousands of youtube clips of various teachers. Something is not right.
Seeker sits with various satsang teachers including Gangaji, Mooji, etc. Something is not right.
Seeker finds Urban Guru Cafe. End of story!
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The ‘seeker’ is a STORY – right or wrong – it is the seeking and the ‘story of me’ that is the problem.
The Urban Guru Cafe is constantly pointing this out.
Sometimes it registers cleanly and a recognition happens.
Whatever it takes to have that ‘happen’ is valid in the appearance of ‘things’.
Nothing actually works because awareness is NEVER obscured by any thing.
Recognizing that alone is enough.
If a ‘guru’ is ‘telling you’ ‘something’, a story, then there is no true communication – it is duality. If there is just an open pointing, without an agenda, then a recognition may well arise spontaneously.
Most teachers and gurus make an obvious ‘fuss about themselves’ and it is merely a reinforcement of the concept of separation. Absurd, given that it is meant to be about ‘the removal’ of the concept of separation.
Have a listen to these gurus – isn’t it obvious that they are ‘up themselves’?
So far up, they have lost sight of the open view.
‘People’ get upset if their favorite guru is named – so lets not name anyone in particular – beside they just about all fall into the same trap.
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Hi Gilbert,
OK, got it regarding guru names…
“I” am having so much fun with your site…posts are just appearing and in the “imagined” past, I wouldn’t have dreamed of posting this much!
Thank you!
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Everyone wants to know what the purpose of life is.
There is only ONE purpose or NO purpose at all.
The only purpose of LIFE is WHAT IS.
Knowing this to be true and not knowing this to be true are equal in WHAT IS.
Everything appears as THIS equanimity and so the meaning of ‘purpose’ loses its meaning.
The moment as it appears to unfold – is WHAT IS.
Believing that ‘I am’ whatever is believed is – WHAT IS.
Seeing through all beliefs – is WHAT IS.
Arguing in a seemingly ‘endlessly’ way about Non Duality – is WHAT IS.
The tension in the body and mind is pure energy – WHAT IS.
The moment of ‘letting go of the me’ and the orgasmic release – is WHAT IS.
These pixels on a hundred screens appear in the same moment of WHAT IS.
The eyes that deliver the light from the screen onto the empty space of knowing – is WHAT IS.
There is NOTHING outside of WHAT IS.
Don’t resist or fight it – to do so is nothing but WHAT IS.
EVERYTHING is spontaneously appearing ‘AS’ WHAT IS.
It just isn’t what it appears to be.
That includes yourself.
But the KNOWING of this is always the same. Even if you deny it or grapple with misunderstanding. It is all WHAT IS.
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I really like this recent trend of pointing toward how the SEEING is never obscured. Some may think deep-down that they are already THAT, but may also think there is a layer of crap covering the SEEING–when this layer of crap is not even existent or obscuring the SEEING in the slightest. It’s a subtle trap–”I know that I cannot become something because I am already THAT, but I have to reach a “state” where I can see this clearly after removing the layer of crap covering the ability to see that I am already THAT”—Which is still believing in a process of becoming…Becoming able “one day” to shed the crap to be able to see what I AM! You already are; FULL ON!
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Standing still with view of no resolve.
Drifting endlessly on life’s rhythmic torrent.
Alone in my utterance of Thy holy truth.
Brief encounter with Thy eternal, ever present rapture.
Longing to dissolve in… No Preference.
Changing and not knowing or seeing…
with limited structured mind,
the path of change wherein I have being.
Unable to track or categorize…
seeking progress reports…to feed the ego’s fire.
Afraid to see your Holy Truth,
to claim my own as inseparable from Thee.
Cast among a throng of thinking machines,
I find myself alone.
A forgotten language lingers…
I speak in tongues which have no home,
In those who’s eyes and ears fall prey to times demise.
No comfort to those who prefer this over that,
who dance the dance of want and dislike.
I breathe and find myself here, with you, again… No Thought.
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Thank you for another wonderfully clear podcast. I’m glad that John Greven brought up the point about putting your hand on your knee and then raising it is something that is seemingly under your control but that you have know idea how it’s done. This has been puzzleing me for a while in that it’s clear that I’m not the one moving my legs yet I walk from place to place without a problem and things like washing my hands seem to happen without any input from me. So while I cannot claim to be incontrol of many things that happen I still hold myself responsible for a lot of things and get caught up in arguments with myself about what I should have done better or that I shouldn’t have done some thing at all and blame myself for it. Occasionally I’ll catch myself at it and then remember that there is no me to blame yet it isn’t always seen as such and another argument will start up between the me and no me ideas.
Writing this down here I can see that the last sentance shows that sometimes I don’t see that there is no me and that the idea that there is no me is taken up instead and becomes another part of the story. This apparent switching between SEEING and the idea of seeing seems to be my mind trying to grasp the SEEING and use it to it’s own ends (to comfort me) but the idea doesn’t work and it’s only in the SEEING that there is no me that needs comforting.
I don’t know, perhaps that’s all just coming from a concept of non-duality. When things seem quiet the SEEING is often noticed yet when there is a lot of thought going on then the SEEING is completely covered up or ignored. I still feel like there is something I’m waiting for some belief in me still left clinging onto the idea of control even though there is much evidence that that is not the case.
Sorry for the long post and the nonsense in it.
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The SEEING does not need the minds translation at all. That translation appears in the seeing. It also disappears. Thoughts have no substance or power of themselves.
The seeing does not come and go. The attention is drawn into the patterns of thought.
All that is needed is a little expansion of awareness – a little movement away from the thoughts and bingo……..the seeing is all inclusive – it always IS so.
‘We’ have taken ourselves to be this thought bound ‘entity’ for ‘so long’ it is automatic.
It is a habit. A habit can be broken. Do not worry about expressing yourself. It is good to get it all out in the open – see it for what it is. Things clear themselves up all by themselves so long as ‘we’ don’t play mind games. If the ‘me’ is in this activity it will have a certain flavor to it. Even though it has no substance or independent nature of its own, it has been believed in and that gives it a momentum that must be broken. The ONLY thing that will break its apparent hold, is NAKED Seeing. Seeing without a story of being a ‘seer’.
Such ‘moments’ may happen and be forgotten – we all have these moments – the habit of memory is word bound and image bound. These clear moments do not have any words to them. It is PURE seeing. Wordless – Silent. It is understanding emerging from the emptiness. Do not repeat stories to yourself about these moments.
They will happen ‘more often’ so long as they are not laden with concepts and words.
This is just a ‘my way’ of expressing something that is indescribable. It may help and it may not help. I don’t know. But I am not afraid to express what comes up – just in case it will help. Be yourself – not what you think you are.
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Gilbert,
Are you a “mind” reader? Your last post brings tears to my eyes because it DOES help what seems to be going on “here”. An experience occurred where an extremely STRONG automatic response from this form happened. The expression just had to get out…in fact, it would have been “weird” if there was “calm” expression to what was happening. In trying to describe this incident, all I can say is that during the expression, it felt purer, cleaner, so to speak. There were no addendums like “you shouldn’t have said that!” After, the incident, there was again what you referred to as a clear moment with no words to it…silent. Even if what I am about to say is a concept…this really does feel like home!
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The UGC beacon continues to shine through the darkness of delusion. Pointers that are to the point. “Me” is having trouble withstanding the siege, is a surrender imminent? Great stuff. Thanks
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Will there be a John Greven Part 2?
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My room mate has been telling me about this site. Just visited and wanted to say thanks for the podcasts. Are there any plans to interview Byron Katie or Eckhart Tolle in the future? Listening to those brought the search to an end for myself and another friend. Much peace, love and thanks for the podcasts.
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Sara,
I chuckled when I saw your post as it so much reminded me of myself and my seeking [ which is falling away by itself ]
This sharing by John is so clear and simple. Amazing.
When my mind sees how great it is, it says: ” That was great. I want more. Perhaps more will finally get me what I want”.
There is no more. This is it.
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Yet another note of genuine appreciation for both Areti and Gilbert – not sure how you guys do it. The ability to provide compassionate pointing and redirection to so many, so many times, in so many different ways. Within the dialogue above and in previous podcasts, I see the prevailing theme repeated (readily identifiable in myself):
Dazed and Confused Guy – “How do I get out of the hole of separation and suffering?”
Well Adjusted Guy – “You never fell into a hole in the first place”.
D&C Guy – “Thank you, but should I use a ladder to climb out of the hole?”
WA Guy – “There never was a hole and you never fell into it.”
D&C Guy – “Thank you … so perhaps a rope would be better to get out of this hole?”
I can see the burnout factor being potentially high in dealing with us cement heads – thanks again and keep doin’ what you’re doin’!
Kirk
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It so happens that on many occasions, an email will arrive saying “I have just finished reading your book – while reading it I had the uncanny experience that you were talking to me – and only to me.” Of course a book is not printed for one reader usually, so the experience is ‘dia-bolic’. A hand written letter would not ‘give this experience’. A book? Or a note on the website?
I am not exaggerating here, this kind of email arrives many times a year.
I am not a ‘fisher of men’, so I do not collect seekers.
We are used to ‘explaining things away’ and mystifying such experiences or things’. I know this one very well and it cannot be ‘explained away’ all that well.
The KNOWING is there. Always. We give it a personal name (insert your name here) but the essence of the Knowing is nameless – it is wordless.
The core of this ‘pointing’ is an absolutely profound factor – inescapable.
A cup has a handle, so that you can pick it up. THIS KNOWING has no handle, no name, no sound, no color, no smell, no distance, no volume, no time, no dimension to IT.
You ARE THAT dimension-less unborn SPIRIT. Invincible and Eternal.
Why do you trade THAT for words and ‘a miserable story of me?’
A Habit can be broken. The TIME to break it is NOW.
Now is the only time there IS.
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Gilbert,
Your post about ”mirror like awareness” took a while to digest.
The words are so misleading, making you belief that you know what they mean – the mind said ‘I know what it means -next’.I persisted in very slowly re-reading the words and then went to the mirror,I could see myself and the whole room reflected in the mirror and your words ” the reflections in a mirror are the mirror and NOTHING but the mirror” turn into another flash of understanding. It become even more clear that every thing that I see (body included) is like that reflection in the mirror- it does not have any independent nature or could be in any way separate from every thing else in the seeing and from the seeing.This was just another confirmation to the self-inquiry of ‘me’ and my story.
How can a chair reflected in the mirror be anything else but a mirror?
How could it have any independent nature?
What I find shocking and hard to digest still is that I see that there is NOTHING personal about this seeing-there is no ‘me’ anywhere to be fund to choose , to have an opinion or preferences,to like or dislike what IS.
I see that , I know that, I have experience that and still I am looking for something ‘personal’ somewhere – a seer ,a doer.
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I also get many emails saying that ‘I am not able to talk with anyone about this – there is no one in my city or town that is ‘into this kind of thing’. Well, get onto the case. See if your local Community Radio Station is interested in a FREE 1 hour program from the Urban Guru Cafe. It can be a 1 off event or we can offer a semi-regular series of programs.
This would generate some interest. It may also generate some flack. It will, at least get ‘people’ talking. Everyone has the RIGHT to hear a clear message that points them to their own true nature. The Church, Temples and Synagogues have had their multiple centuries of attempting this – and it usually degenerates into dogma and hypnotic rituals.
Time for a ‘whack out of left field’. The ‘status quo’ may get a little ruffled – so what?
University Radio Stations are also a good place to check out. Young inquiring minds that have not yet been atrophied by ‘the system’ are ‘ripe fields of grain’.
The great thing about what is on offer is that no one has to join anything or become a member of some exclusive religion or sect. It can be a very quick release from ‘the bondage of self’.
These are just some thoughts arising.
P.S. In answer to a question that seems to have disappeared into the ether: No plans to interview Eckhart Tolle or Byron Katie – simply because they are not direct – they imply that there is ‘someone’ who can ‘do’ some ‘work’ to achieve some ‘higher state’ in ‘the future’. What we are on about here is RIGHT NOW, just THIS is IT. Unaltered, unmodified and uncorrected. It is simply a matter of SEEING that you were NEVER bound by any concept at all. To suggest anything else is misleading and story telling. There is no New Earth to create – there is no Work to do. THIS IS IT. There is NO future TIME and there is NO BECOMING. There is ONLY BEING. WHAT IS.
Just as it IS. Realizing THIS puts an end to belief in ‘tomorrow’. This is radical news. Oprah belongs to a realm of entertainment and THIS is not about entertaining the mind with stories. It is radically cutting through the minds diversions. This note may be confronting to anyone who believes that Eckhart or Byron have truly helped them. If that were true, why would there be any seeking still going on? Where is the need to listen to these podcasts? Or any ‘teaching’ at all? These teachers have their place – as an introduction to something away from the dogma of strict religious beliefs.
That is about the extent of it. I have met many from both of these ‘camps’ and one factor is obvious – not one of these have ceased from SEEKING. See what I mean?
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Hi Steven Metcalf,
I can understand why my comment made you chuckle but may I ask why you continue to come to this website and listen since you obviously aren’t a seeker anymore?
You comment that seeking falls away by itself is very encouraging.
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Okay Gilbert I have to step in, you are picking on my friends here. Eckhart Tolle and Byron Katie are very much aware of their true nature. What they do is meet the so-called seeker where they are and guide them into seeing their true nature.They do this in ‘time’ and there is a ‘process’ and yes they do make a bundle of money as well. Those lucky bastards have it all !
Now, if you can get this ‘instantly’ or as they say Full Stop! then don’t bother with Eckhart or Byron. You are one of the few. Enjoy your freedom !
Having said all that, you can now dismiss all of it because in truth, there is no Eckhart, no Byron, no Gilbert, no Ralph . So no harm done, right ?
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Gilbert,
Would you say that people like Katie & Echart are prolonging their followers from realizing that they are the SEEKING by getting them to work on the “me” when there is no “me”? And actually getting this people to pay alot of money to fix the “me”.
If this is true….it would be laughable if it wasn’t so cruel.
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Sorry Ralph, but let’s be honest here — you have no friends, let alone Ulrich Tolle or what’s-her-face…
Just kidding, though seriously, maybe you should start your own blog?
Better yet, before leaving to begin blogging elsewhere, make a donation to Gilbert for $165 Australian Dollars so he can attend Tolle’s Melbourne 2 Hour Talk next month!
Odd turn of events: it was because of Eckhart Tolle that I was led to Gilbertji. Whatever THIS IS, G-ji is the most accessible cat out there. Thanks, G.
(Any attempts at humor are not meant to be “snippy”…)
-UGC Fan
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The POINT is that if one KNOWS beyond all doubt that you are not a concept and ‘I am’ this freedom beyond the ‘material trap’ then WHY would ‘this one’ weave stories about some future or some work to do?
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No ticket for me thanks.
I would rather go sailing.
There is NO WAY OUT of the dream, within the dream. You must SEE the dream as a dream – the SEEING is outside of the dream. The dream appears in the SEEING.
Enough.
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Gilbert, if Eckhart would be interviewed at the UGC, he would probably agree with all that you are saying . I know I do but there is more to it . The ‘not seeing’ is also part of ‘true seeing’. His audience are seekers who are early on in the search and your audience are seekers that are one step away from ‘true seeing’. So he is making imaginary money and sharing how he became awakened with those that are interested. Whats wrong with that ? He is just living the dream, baby !
Remember most aren’t interested in the slightest. I agree with you, “You must SEE the dream as a dream ” and this is what he and you are both doing but in different ways but to the same conclusion. Only difference is he is taking the long way there and may I add making money along the way and you are taking the short cut with no time to make money.
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If there was a way into the dream?
There must be a way out of the dream?
Conventional logic dictates that? you would think, right!
But this is not about thinking or reasoning!
This is about the reality that you ‘ARE’.(Ordinary Everyday Awareness)!
There is simply no entry or exit point into this vast expansive awareness that one is!
‘NOTHING is REAL or the REAL is NO-THING’
There is no greater magic than ‘THIS’!
~suki
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Hi Sara,
Hope my post dud not offend you. More clearly, your post reminded me of my “seeking” self so I was laughing at me.
I did not say I was not a seeker, I said seeking was falling away. And it is.
I do not know why I do what I do.
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Stephen,
No offense taken at all..in fact I was encouraged to know the seeking is falling away.
This statment really jumped out at me:
“I do not know why I do what I do.”
I never really thought of it that way..thanks!
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As soon as I see that I am nothing, then I am everything. As soon as I see that I am my own jailer, I am free. “Me”, “my story”, ect. are just ideas. Ideas can’t be enlightened. “I” am never going to be enlightened. If “I” just hang around in this “presence awareness” without expectations, whatever will happen, will happen, I don’t have much or really any choice about this. The “me stuff” sort of comes and goes, but I can just let it do it’s thing, no harm done, no reason to get excited. Everything is perfect the way it is, no need to modify, transform, evolve, fix, etc., Things take care of themselves. Since I am the space within which things happen, and the space doesn’t really mind whatever happens, then it would seem that there truly is nowhere to go and nothing to do. UGC is promulgating radical freedom.
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ROCK ON, MILTON
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Some comments have been removed. Due to a few ‘people’ getting very upset about what was written. I have had one abusive email, ironically with foul language, from a self proclaimed enlightened being. I find it rather amusing since if the content of the programs were to be truly heard, all these issues would not be of any concern. We are not here to upset anyone. If you believe in enlightened beings that is your business. That belief will keep you on the path to nowhere. What is being pointed out is clearly outlined in a hundred ways. No one can SEE for you. The recognition will arise without notice. It is unmistakable and there is no point sitting around waiting for it to happen. No method, no meditation or practice will make it happen.
When the fixation of ‘me’ is threatened to be robbed of its sacred beliefs, it can get very abusive and even violent. Such is the nature of misdirected energy.
Be ordinary – be simple – be open to what is. That is enough.
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Neither Absolute Nor Relative
Neither Eternal Nor Temporal
I Am That I Am
I am That. You are That.
All there is, is That…..
Natural Timeless Perfection.
Ahhh . The Simplicity Of This
Since you already ARE and you do KNOW that you ARE, you exist and are aware, you must understand that this aware beingness is all that is pointed to as your true self. The identity of a thought “I” is a false concept and directly looking for the actual existence of any separate entity reveals that all that there is is a thought that comes and goes IN unchanging awareness. That is the simple truth of all this and seeing that ends any search because it is seen directly here and now that being IS and you are THAT.
“Relax and watch the “I am”. Reality is just behind it. Keep quiet, keep silent; it will emerge, or, rather, it will take you in.” Sri Nisargadatta
What You Are is this Unbounded Awareness-Being-Peace – natural, eternal self-arising perfection – is right here before the mind, giving Its light to all that appears, even the energy movements we label “meâ€, “fear”, “terror”, “happiness” or “love”. Transcending yet appearing as all, paradoxically unimaginable yet the most obvious real, IT IS and since IT IS all there is you are clearly THAT.
Suffering consist only in believing in the false self-center or self-image, and attempts to move into The one necessarily obscure (seemingly) that FACT that you ARE The One. It is a sad state of affairs, this belief in a phantom, a uncatchable unfindable powerless and insubstantial “I-me-self”.
That apparent obscuration is ever trying to keep you from seeing it as false. That’s how it apparently survives even though it ain’t real – by avoiding being looked at head-on. Be a detective and check for evidence of the engraved brain-spurt called “I’s me!” Where os the evidence for such an entite’s actual existence as a thing apart from The Natural Perfection? There is none. Find that out for yourself. Investigate, while knowing that what you are is already whole, complete, and perfect as can ever be. Seeking That denies Its already existingness as Silent Awareness – One without a second. So keep it simple; be what you are and refuse to believe the lie of delusive thought that claims with no evidence that you are fragmented, broken away for The One Perfect Being. All you can think or believe, you are NOT THAT. Knowingness, Seeingness, Hearingness, without a single concept: You are That.
“All the thoughts, concepts and suffering are appearing in presence-awareness. They do not affect what you are, any more than clouds affect the sky.” ~ John Wheeler
“Now I know nothing, for all knowledge is in dream only and not valid. I know myself and I find no life nor death in me, only pure being, not being this or that, but just being”. – Sri Nisargadatta
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Not only that, can “anyone” ever truly be upset?
Pointing to what you are is ruthless and loving at the same time…
Hey, where did those words come from?
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THERE IS ONLY ONE SEEING HAPPENING.
The only ‘reason’ a ‘pointer’ is needed is because some attention has slipped away from this SEEING into some beliefs.
Beliefs cannot SEE.
The ‘I’ ‘appears’ to say ‘I see’ but it doesn’t SEE at all.
One Moment of eternal realization is THIS moment.
Everything appears in the SEEING.
So WHERE are you SEEING from?
What does ‘reason’ have to do with SEEING?
Many of the so-called Great Teachers were depressed in their later years – seemingly due to ‘the people’ just didn’t get what was offered.
The quote from the Bible is cuttingly appropriate (from my website page)
“Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them.” Eccl 12:1 – the words of King Solomon.
This passage is translated here as: ‘Return’ to the immediacy of being, without a thought, before any concept about ‘time’ and before ‘the evil days’, the days of gloom and darkness of mind and negative thought patterns, before the ‘years’ of weariness from seeking one’s own true nature.
This immediacy is free of these ‘time bound’ notions and mental states.
The only way out of the mind is ‘full stop’ – the cessation of thought addiction – even for a moment – in which the clarity of pure being is self-evident.
“Remember thy creator now, in the days of thy youth…….etc” …… It is highly symbolic ‘pointing’ – the ONLY TIME is NOW.
Remembering my true nature is recognizing what I am.
In the space of SEEING – this KNOWING is happening. Even though upon entering into the most subtle space of inquiry, nothing of any substance is discovered – the KNOWING is obviously prior to the visit in time and prior to most refined, transparent substance – even prior to space itself.
Only ONE will Understand – There is ONLY ONE Understanding.
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Nisargadatta once said something like this: “If I spoke about these things in a public place – they (the public) would come after me and want my blood”
Today the internet is full of all sorts of things. It potentially has the ability to deliver the ‘message’ – but remember, the internet is a public place.
A certain degree of ‘things’ can be expressed here.
The ‘art’ of expressing what needs to be expressed – possibly ‘hidden’ amongst some ‘other things’ or even in some ‘rubbish’ is an art form that is rare to find. Whether it be HEARD or recognizes or not – it is unknown – ‘until’ the moment of recognition – then it is known. THIS moment is that moment.
The believed in one, the one I may think I am will NEVER know.
What I truly AM already Knows.
This is the paradox that needs to be solved – and yet there is no need at all.
The knot in the rope slips free, not by force or tugging – But by gentle handling.
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Gilbert,
I’m not up on my bible stuff…so, where does that phrase “the blind leading the blind” come from? Your previous post kept reminding me of this…As long as the “me” appears to continue to exist, it seems that is all that can continue to happen in the dream…yet at the same time it is perfectly OK since there is only ONE.
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I’ve listened to this clip four times now. It’s my favorite along with the Wheeler ones.
After listening to it each time, I went into a very focused inquiry. This would culminate with a short period of total stillness, silence, peace and all encompassing beingness. Then I would get hungry, or there would be something to do, and I’d be back to normal life. Over the years I’ve gone through phases of intense inquiry like this. Usually after coming across a new teacher. I often think wow, I have to do that more often. But it takes so much focus. And most of the time it seems like it would be boring so I don’t even start. Sometimes I’ll inquire while walking around doing random things. It comes and goes. Sometimes it’s frustrating, sometimes it’s great. One thing that’s interesting is that the difference between the highs and lows is much smaller now. There’s much less fear in my life these days than there used to be. There have been some very hellish periods and years and years of suffering. There is still some suffering. I’m trying to formulate a question for Gilbert or John. Ok…How can I gather the energy, or focus, to sustain the inquiry to completion? A completion where I don’t have to ask or inquire into my identity further?
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‘YOU’ don’t have to gather any energy for the inquiry. What you are is energy.
Just recognize that all thoughts come and go. They have no power of themselves.
You don’t have to believe any of them. The essence of ‘the inquiry’ is SEEING.
Seeing is happening. Who has a problem? It must be ‘me’. SEE that habitual thought pattern of ‘me’. Recognize that what you are is seeing everything, including this apparent ‘me’. That is enough. It is far too simple. The mind makes everything complex.
SEEING and KNOWING are ONE – THAT is simplicity itself. What more do ‘you’ want?
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Gilbert,
You ask this question.
“So WHERE are you SEEING from?”
It feels as if there is someone inside my head seeing. Are you saying the seeing is taking place outside of my body by an awareness or intelligence and this awareness is who I am? So, if all bodies turn to ash will there still be seeing.
Sorry, I’m confused!
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All bodies are made from Star Dust. The Elements. ALL of the elements appear IN the SEEING. Obvious. The SEEING has no form of itself.
If it had a form, that form would be the most obvious ‘object’ of all apparent objects….it IS formlessness itself.
Formlessness appears as the multitude of forms. One appears as many. That is the ancient Cosmology found throughout many texts and traditions.
Yes, this is radical for the believed in entity. It is its demise, so to speak.
But…….’when’ this revelation opens up – the SEEING remains as it always was, is and will be. Clear and precise.
“There are no customers for this ‘knowledge’” to quote Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
I do not need to quote him or anyone. This knowing is here. All the forms appear in THAT clear seeing.
Confusion is conflict between reference points in the mind. The confusion is appearing in the seeing – you are not the confusion. See that clearly and be done with these erroneous beliefs.
SEEING is ‘everywhere’, every ‘when’ and every ‘how’.
The faint remains of a belief in being separate dissolves into the resonance of knowing. Too simple – so everyone misses it….or so it seems.
What I am telling you, you already KNOW. The mind only has the dead past to translate from…..
You are THIS immediacy and nothing but THIS.
THIS is the most radical revelation that there can be – and yet it is the MOST OBVIOUS – because it is OBVIOUS, no one recognizes it.
It is just like ‘space’. ‘We’ recognize all the ‘things’, the ‘world’, and yet we overlook the ‘space’ in which it all appears.
Awareness is not space – it is the KNOWING of space and the content of space – ‘Prior to Consciousness’.
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Across the great frontier of inner space…
a note of pure ecstasy calls…
has always called…
will always call.
A pure rhythm of ecstatic union topples the walls of mind,
throws the proverbial wrench of truth
into the jaws of the great machine
and it is as it should be.
I am emptied of all… save, this tone (resonance) of truth.
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First of all I’d like to express my gratitude for your wonderful site, thank you.
May I ask Gilbert a question?
Hi gilbert,
I have been resting as awareness now for around three years by simply relaxing the hold on any perception as it appears. I do this in a very relaxed manner whenever the rememberance to do so comes. Everything has changed and I feel more and more contentment on an almost day to day basis. My question is this, I can see clearly that awareness has no agenda and yet I am noticing that as the ‘inner’ and ‘outer’ becomes less defined then both ‘inner’ and ‘outer’ circumstances ‘improve’. The question is not important for me except that I am noticing that my fascination (love) for awareness is increasing and I wonder where this could lead?
Thanks again for the great work your doing, love Alan.
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It is the mind that wants to know where this will lead. This appears as a thought…….”Where will this lead?” It is a subtle movement into a realm of thought patterns. Just SEE that this awareness never moves into ‘time’. Even this so-called ‘time’ is just a concept. The concept of resting in awareness is only for a believed in ‘entity’ that can rest in awareness. These concepts ‘taught’ by ‘teachers’ can appear to be helpful for a short time. They turn into a mind trap quite quickly – for the ‘me’, the one who ‘thinks’ it is ‘doing’ this ‘resting’.
Right now, before the next thought appears, there is a clear space of knowing. THIS is what everyone is looking for. And they look for it in the mind content – simply because that is where ‘we’ all have been conditioned to look.
Understanding is NOT in the mind. There is no answer in the mind.
Your true nature is wordless being. Prior to the arising of ‘I am’.
This ‘I am-ness’ is a resonance of being.
If this resonance is seemingly absent while say ‘I am’ then the mind is in automatic mode.
Speak these words ‘I am’ with the fullness of this resonance in being and SEE and KNOW the difference.
As Bob Adamson says “I am speaking to that I AM that I AM”.
(In other words) No separation.
Emptiness speaks to emptiness.
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Gilbert,
‘Prior to Consciousness’…
In Genesis the Bible says.. And the earth was waste and without form; and it was dark on the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God was moving on the face of the waters. …
Are you speaking of the Spirit of God (The Seeing, awareness, intelligence) being what we are and the Spirit of God manifesting as everything which includes all that we see and this Spirit of God is prior to consciouness?
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There is only one intelligence moving everything.
The whole message is about one central factor. This factor cannot be expressed.
It can only be the KNOWING.
You are THAT.
If we listen to the programs with an open mind, what is being expressed will ‘provide’ insights. Left to our own devices, the mind will usually just go around in circles. You can’t give yourself a ‘pointer’. It comes out of ‘left field’, so to speak.
P.S.
If Jesus, Buddha, Moses and Mohammad were to meet – would there be any friction between them? They would probably enjoy each others company to the ‘enth degree.
When told of the conflict between their respected followers, would they not, each in turn, compassionately ‘disown’ these followers absolutely?
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Conditioning*
Not satisfied with who you see,
the mirrored image lies to thee.
Compared in thought, the mind projects,
sifts and strains, retains, rejects.
The world creeps in and steals from you,
your child’s eyes (Seeing) and faith (Knowing) so true.
Wondrous world of innocence,
dies in right and wrong’s defense.
Purpose lost, you cling and hold,
reshape your clay to fit the mold.
No longer satisfied with ‘You’,
seek what you deem is right and true.
Your mind projects divinity,
and buries your humanity.
Imprisoned in a fortress strong,
gray and dim your child’s song.
Color and light, all but gone.
Death becomes your wishful dawn.
Thanx for the clarity (resonance) on my last post
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The light of knowing shines through the mask.
Nothing EVER obscures awareness.
SEE that this is so – right now.
The beggar vanishes, the seeker’s image dissolves into the fading mists of mind.
Dawn has arrived.
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Shattered image conditioned prison
Breaking molds of I’s and isms.
Stripped raw core, no grand design
Affluent matrix So Divine.
Attract, repel, the tone (resonance) doth guide
As heavens child one cannot hide.
Beginnings and ends merge and collide
Darkness begets light mirrored inside.
Beliefs and dogmas systems of thought
Dust and ashes metamorphic rot.
Becoming the root of the joy you have bought
No satisfaction thus gained in the pain you have sought.
Ripples of life course through your veins
Distant memories of your woes and your pains.
Stark realizations no action in vain
I AM as vibration is all that remains.
Tonal frequency identity crashes
Truth seeps through in unnoticeable flashes.
What began in the heart seduces the mind
While seeking nirvana it’s “YOU” that you find.
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Today during some intense inquiry I experienced great fear. This has happened before. It appears quickly and it’s hard to say what exact thought causes it. I think it has to do with losing control, or disappearing, or of not being able to function.
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Abbocarnu,
Wow…”What began in the heart seduces the mind
While seeking nirvana it’s YOU that you find.”
just beautiful…tears here!
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Robin, and whomever visits>>>>
Poetry has a way of bypassing the mind.. and yet the CLEAR message IS, HAS and will ALWAYS, Not be in the words OR Content<< G-Ji> Points as Clear as a ‘You’ Can get>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Peace**;)
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Simple silence quiets complications,
child like love heals all the Nations.
Questions are answered in a butterflies dance,
mental mirages have not a chance.
Crushing the wild flowers on the way to the Guru,
enthroned in the moment as life courses through you.
Merely a channel of the love so inherent,
the answers we seek are OH so apparent.
Each touch or each word to mirror Love’s design,
the universe opens to unleash the Divine.
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The fear of being nothing…………….but let this apparent nothing remain……
Discover the Fullness of No Thing.
“Because it is empty – so it is filled -
Because it is full, so it is emptied”. – Ancient text (paraphrased from memory).
“Watch a cloud appear out of empty sky – watch as it disappears back into the empty sky.
This profoundity is the core of all existence.
That which re-cognizes this immediate ‘phenomena’ is beyond all phenomena and is the unchanging experiencing – that is what ‘I am’.
THIS Knowing suffuses all that IS and all that appears to be” – Gilbert
NOTE: What is on offer here in the programs is exceedingly direct. It may not be easily digested or ‘heard’ straight away. These programs ‘should’, in my opinion, raise many questions. Don’t be like the one who goes to endless meetings and remains silent. Those questions will not resolve themselves so easily. Bring them up – share your doubts.
Let some light be shone upon them. Too many remain silent. This opportunity may disappear at any time. Take the plunge. A few do and some have already discovered ‘something’ that was eluding them for many years. – End of note.
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Gilbert,
Can you point to any scientific evidence that what you say is true?
I ask this because, I fell for the fairy tale that I was such a dirty rotten sinner God had to send his son to die a horrible death for me….blah blah blah
After that I decided I would need proof in order to fall for anything again. I’m not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful. Just thought I would ask.
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Hi peggy, Gilbert is on a coffee break right now, so if you don’t mind I will try to help in answering your question.
you are aware right now …. yes? that is the only proof you need. The rest is all appearances in this awareness, including who you take yourself to be.
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It is NOT a matter of falling for anything.
The pure and clear evidence is right there ‘with you’.
If you pause a thought, even for a moment, the SEEING does not disappear. The KNOWING does not disappear. So, this clearly shows that what you are is not a thought.
This clear ‘moment’ is ‘the gateway’ out of the minds confusion and belief system.
The believed in ‘person’ that I have believed ‘I am’ is simply a story added onto the pure ‘I am-ness’.
If you stay in the confines of the mind, you will drown in self-centered activity.
It is not necessary. What ‘man’ has turned Jesus’ message into is not what he was speaking about. That message is ancient and the umpteen translations have not helped to preserve its clarity. No one can say with 100% accuracy (not belief or faith) whether this man called Jesus was actually a living form, as a ‘human being’ or not. All we have is documents, sketchy evidence and ‘expert’ opinions. The expert is full of beliefs about his evidence.
In my opinion, it does not matter whether he existed or not. There is NO transmission. The value of the texts is obvious for those who are not blinded by beliefs and superstitions.
All the wisdom in all the world is NOT equal to the clear and immediate ‘presence’ that you ARE. YOU ARE – FACT.
Get familiar with this ‘presence’. That is the proof you wish for.
Nothing I can say will convince anyone about this. The convincing factor is the living evidence of pure experiencing, without the laden burden of conceptualization.
This clear and present evidence of pure being is spoken of in the Bible:
“A thousand may fall at thy left side – ten thousand BY your right hand – but NONE shall come near your dwelling place”.
My interpretation in brief is this: Whether the body-mind organism is passively resting (left side) or actively engaged in a fierce ‘battle’ (right side) NOTHING touches what you truly are.
Right now, is all there is. Look now. Is not it clearly obvious that nothing touches that dwelling place? That is the evidence – evidence that no one can fall into or out of.
Those who ‘hold office’ in religious circles are most often full of misunderstanding and suffer from delusions of power. Such imaginary power corrupts the mind in the most hideous ways.
“The Kingdom is within you and without you” – “And you SEE it not”.
Not because you are blind or ignorant. Because it is NO THING.
The ‘Peace beyond all understanding’ is THAT.
It is not something to achieve or be attained – it is the very nature of what you are.
Stop ignoring it.
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Do you need to say “I am” to know you are?
No…YOU ARE before those words arise…
The natural state is prior to anything arising in the mind.
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And to Peggy…words from your post above…
“…and the Spirit of God manifesting as everything which includes all that we see…”
So many ways of pointing…
There is only seeing (there is only God) endlessly manifesting as everything. The seeing (God) is the creation…the creation is the seeing…the creation is the signature of God.
God and the creation are one and inseparable.
There is only one seeing…there is only one God.
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I just had another listen to John’s program. It is well worth hearing a few times. The delivery is spontaneous and it rolls out like a Persian silk rug. So many of ‘our questions’ get rendered passive, if only we hear the salient points clearly. We will certainly be asking John for another interview in the near future.
I am rather impressed by how many downloads are happening over recent months. It would appear that the UGC is touching a great number ‘out there’.
One thing that stands out from so many other so-called ‘teachers’ – is something some may not even notice – it is this:
At no point do any of the speakers on these programs ask anyone to believe in anything that is being spoken of. No methods or practices are suggested. Hints of ways of looking at things don’t really fit the description of any ‘method or practice’ or an asking for you to believe anything. No process is emphasized and the future is rarely mentioned. Don’t believe anything you hear here. You must always test it yourself. It is the only way.
No one is making a big deal out of ‘who’ they are. All speakers have the ‘feet on the ground’ and their heads out of the clouds. This factor alone sets them apart from most popular Gurus and Teachers. They all live ordinary lives – with one exception – there is no psychological suffering – and that point is what all this is about. It is possible for you also.
What is being pointed at consistently is completely ALWAYS available right NOW.
If it is not immediately recognized, then all one needs to do is look at what it is that seemingly stops us from recognizing this immediate self-evident immaculate, presence-awareness.
I suggest that you download the programs, rather than stream them on line. That way you can listen to them with ease anytime you wish to. I recommend re-listening to the programs that resonate the strongest with you. It sinks in.
Moments of recognition will arise ‘during the day’, not when you expect them to.
“The unexpected always happens”.
These moments all ‘appear’ in the SEEING – and……Seeing is already happening.
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“No one is making a big deal out of ‘who’ they are”
And why should they? Bob, and any other great ‘pointer-giver’, is only a seeming appearance in what I am. Awareness is required for any “peacock” to poke his head out and say how great he is. Only an identification with a reference point (and denial of non-separation from Awareness) would cause “others” to envy this person, pay $165 to see this person, or worse yet– to go to bed with this so-called sage (and we know that happens).
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Hi Mike, I see that you are doing some serious inquiry on fear. Perhaps instead of trying to figure out what thought causes it , it may help to try to just be present with it with no intention to fix it but allow it to be. Stay with the fear, when you do this it loses its power or energy. This takes courage, most will just repress it. The snake must be seen as a rope. Yes, fear is only a ‘thought believed’ but if it is running your so-called life then it must be investigated. There is no other way out . Walk through it and see why it has a strong grip on you. This is where the investigation comes in ‘deconstructing’ what has been ‘constructed’. Anyway, thats my take on it.
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I just wanted to express “my” gratitude for this fantastic resource. “I” have loved listening to all the recordings here and look forward to each new one. this is golden.
keep up the inspired work!
Betsy D.
Ashland, OR USA
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I listened to John’s program 3 times! Thought I had questions…there are none!
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Okay Robin, you now qualify to become a guru , congratulations !
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We’re always looking for something, some indication, some clue that we’re missing, some special knowledge to acquire… we work ourselves into a fit of frustration trying to fit the “pointers” into our existing analytical framework. We think that if we just correctly decipher these paradoxical statements, WE will then GET something, SEE something different, something better.
This is all false.
There is no special knowledge necessary, no experience that is the product of a successful search. There is no clue to look for, nothing special that needs to be seen. There is no need to analyze – there may be a relaxation into these “statements”, a surrender to the paradox and confusion.
The SEEING is always the “point” of the “pointers”. The obvious seeing/knowing, pure experiencing which contains both the experienced and the experiencer – this is our actual experience right this very second. The “pointers” aren’t pointing to something that will be seen in the future, if you “do something correctly”. The “pointers” are pointing to something that is already, fully present, right now, no matter the spiritual state or experience or seeking credentials.
If you’re reading these words, that seeing is present.
The sense “I AM” is temporary, it comes due to some form or means of knowledge (thoughts, sensations, perceptions) – something must be prior to, primary, that is aware of that sense “I AM”. This concept of what you are can only arise in a cloud of conceptual thinking.
Your True Self is the fact or function of knowing that is not the gold ring claimed after successfully figuring out all the pointers. This analysis, in fact, seems to prevent the realization that is sought because it’s a denial that what’s being searched for is present now.
Look right now – what is knowing the thoughts? What is knowing the sense of “I AM”? Where is this seeing happening? Does it stop? Does it take shape? Does it appear as an object? That clear seeing or pure consciousness is the very ground and illumination of all relative experience.
It is already what you are – only you take yourself to be the individual seeker, suffering without realization. You are in FACT the clear knowing presence which is simultaneously the invisible, empty witness of the world and the solid block of fullness which is the totality.
The individual is itself the illusion – find out what is aware of this idea of the individual – see that this sense “I AM” is a temporary, fluctuating concept made of thoughts. See that the foundation or illumination of any concept is what you are.
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All vain and splendorous searching’s reveal not the simple truth.
Hell uncovers the heart’s desire as pain endows the seekers toil
with rhythmic grace and turbulent bliss.
Knowledge mutes the simple truth….within.
Experience marks the path of grace,
mind and time, each other’s master.
Spinning webs of shadowed fate we march our animal shells
to the tune of survival’s melodic mumbo jumbo.
Forgetting only to re-member that which raised a Spiritual Sun,
that which has never NOT been ….
Light, as darkness’s twin, births communion, duality conjoined…
interdependent…. inseparable.
In breath out….out breath in,
lives unspun, spin once again.
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By the Way***
Randall Friend’s Podcasts, my Favorite, being “Absolute Perspective” are available on his website http://avastu0.blogspot.com/
He and G-ji’s relentless pointing at “What IS” can be excruciatingly frustrating to the “Mind” and all her minions~ Maya Be Gone>>> As if you never were>>
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Just a few meters (feet) from the Peak of Mount Everest, beneath the snow laden surface, one tiny grain of ‘rock’ turns to another tiny grain of rock and says “Thank you for your wisdom, your advice the other day helped me inch my way further another few millimeters. But please tell me again about what happens when we get to the top. I keep forgetting”.
The other grain of rock although a patient and wise grain of rock, after 20 thousand years of ‘work’ climbing this mountain, loses his patience for a moment. “To be honest with you, it is just something I heard and actually, now we are almost there, I seem to have forgotten what is supposed to happen.” The Mountain, due to the wind dying down for a moment, overhears this conversation, and being a compassionate soul whispers to them both. “Every twenty thousand years the planet warms up and the snow melts, it rains and all the top soil gets flushed back to the lowlands and valleys. Then the cycle starts all over again.”
Both the grains of rock are in shock…..all at once, in the blink of an eyelid, they both remember their illustrious ‘dream’ and blurt out in unison “What about the Bliss”? ……then one adds very loudly “Yeah, damn it, the Bliss, all this effort, I want the BLISS”.
The Mountain chuckles softly, he has seen it all before, whispers back “Be patient my little brothers, the snow is melting fast enough already. The ride down is extra extra ecstatic, so I am told.” The two companions look at each other with dismay written across the rocky faces.
After a few moments, the mountain adds “Still, I wouldn’t know much about it. I always stay here but I am looking forward to another shower. You get to feel quite grubby after not having a good shower for twenty thousand years”.
That’s right folks the top and the bottom can’t exist without each other.
Polarity is equalized by its own field of complex energy patterns which permeate the WHOLE.
The Hills and the valleys, the waves and the troughs, the ups and the downs go together like peanut butter and jelly.
- Light humor breaks suppled by Happy Clown Productions.
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Hi Ralph,
I could never be a guru…that is only a thought. What you are is not a thought…
My comment regarding John’s program was to point out how clear he expresses what is REAL. So it appears one may enter a “space” where there are simply no questions. Nothing to say!
If I may be blunt and presumptuous, there is something that is “calling you” to this website…something resonates because you continually “show up” here…take the guard down and SEE what it is.
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The little “ME” can’t do anything about the constantly changing nature of Reality – we suppress (resist/deny) the fact that every single thing we love and want can be gone in a split second. R.F. avastu0@blogspot.com
Black Sheep~
I walk amongst a throng of sleep walkers,
lost in the script of their own creation.
Side show freaks in a circus of maddening delusion.
With my head in the clouds, I wander endlessly forward
and inward to my ‘personal’ paradise.
Motive seems so elusive,
mind so very shifty.
Convincing to the point of action.
Reflection to uncover,
the reason for this pain.
God’s will so very simple,
My will brings grief and sorrow.
Choices are gifts to treasure.
A rose still has its thorns.
Taste Beauty, seeds of creation,
the lie of separation.
Pray and receive answers,
ignore and lie once more.
Give and be emptied.
Too desperate not to.
Offering all that I am
upon the altar of life.
Accept or reject.
A strong wing stirs my soul and I AM Born Anew~
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Hello again
Not sure if we are allowed to post a link but this site came to mind regarding Peggy’s question about scientific studies done. Here’s one on Consciousness and non-duality.
Not sure if anyone is interested but here goes:
http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/home.html
You can delete this Gilbert if not appropriate.
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Ok here’s another question that may have been asked many times though not to my knowledge.
Aren’t there moments when the present moment is not OK, even if you don’t think about it? Examples come to mind such as while experiencing physical violence, rape or even torture. I realize this is extreme and thanfully most of ‘us’ will never experience anything like it, but wouldn’t there be a tendency to ‘flee, the moment in those circumstances?
I also understand that that these things happen in awareness and this is who we really are but they certainly will be real for the ‘victims’.
Sorry for the dark and dreary post.
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“One Essence expresses and appears as everything” – quote from Bob Adamson.
This One Essence is One Energy – appearing as all things. This energy is a movement. There is no ‘entity’ to this energy movement, no ‘will’, no ‘choice maker’ and ‘The River’ flows just as it does. Nothing was ever created and nothing is ever destroyed. It is all ‘appearances’ without a single exception.
The concept of a ‘personal will’ is arising in this movement. ‘You’ as a ‘thought being’ cannot get behind the appearance to discover any WILL in action.
You can only BE this movement in stillness – no choice. All the ruminating over meaning and ‘self’ is of no use.
The evidence of this movement is ever-present – the evidence of this stillness is ever-present. What you ARE is both aspects of this singularity.
So long as that ‘body’ and ‘mind’ are not included in the seeing as an appearance also, then there will be confusion.
In the thinking, ‘we’ can postulate all kinds of situations. The immediate evidence remains obviously clear – but not to the mind that keeps postulating and analysing. All kinds of atrocities ‘appear to happen’, just as all kinds of wondrous events ‘appear to happen’. These ‘happenings’ are equal, no matter what your mind tells you.
In the midst of the most horrific circumstances there is always a potential for realizing that I am not this limited creature that I appear to be. Such information will not satisfy the mind. The mind will make all kinds of objections and continue on its ‘seeming pathway’. The intellect itself has no independence whatsoever. All of its arguments and measurements require a ‘point of reference’. That ‘point’ is the habitual fixation of ‘me’.
There may appear a beautiful dream or a terrifying nightmare. There is NO WAY out within the dream. No dream character EVER woke up. Awareness contains everything without preferences, or judgments. This ‘I’ could tie your mind up in some complex reasoning – but it will all dissolve fairly quickly as it is replaced by the ever arising array of new thoughts and habitual belief patterns. Is that what you are?
Many make extreme efforts to ‘climb the mountain’ in order to find the hidden passage to ‘the new world.’
What is being pointed out here, relentlessly, is that you are already HERE.
The mountain does not need to be climbed – because the ‘passage’ or the ‘gateway’ is right HERE, right NOW. But it will never reveal itself by searching in the mind.
The mind’s endless stories are a constant diversion from ‘What IS’.
The only way out of the mind is FULL STOP.
SEE and BE this most immediate and obvious presence of pure knowing.
There is no other way.
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Can’t we all Just STOP and SEE~?
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Ecstatic experience transcends the mind,
euphoric rhythm in which I find,
all that is truth and that which is not,
the untapped well of purity sought.
Seeking for naught, save that which I touch,
seeing so little, yet feeling so much.
Mind is so quiet, back there in the distance,
relaxed in the flow where I find no resistance.
Spirals descend into realms filled with light.
Resistance is futile so I give up the fight.
To struggle against life’s natural current,
with mind screaming out to find a deterent.
To resist all that “IS” is like swimming uphill.
A singular experience cements higher will.
I laugh at myself, having been so resistant,
as all of life’s mysteries unfold in this instant.
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A new program is on its way. Or you had enough? Surely it is clear and obvious by now.
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Thank you very much Gilbert for taking the time to answer this layman’s questions. Very very much appreciated and they bring forth much reflection. I need to stop, see and be as suggested. Too much (apparent?) spinning going on these past couple days.
Looking forward to the next installment!
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It never stops spinning my friend. The wheel keeps turning. Find your way ‘back’ to the immediacy, the fulcrum point – the still ‘point’ at the center. There it is obvious that everything turns upon emptiness and that there is no center as such. And what’s more it is discovered that you are this emptiness. Not a vacant void, not the ‘nothing’ that so much fear is woven upon or onto.
It is this immediate LIFE, the pulse of life spins out of this emptiness. The seeing is right there in the first instant, the only instant and it is and every-where, every-when and every-how. THIS is IT. Keep on Spinning or as they say in the seventies “Keep on truckin”.
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haha thanks Gilbert this does help. Your words do not fall on deaf ears, though it can seem that way with all these questions popping up!
yes Keep on Truckin’! I was quite young in the seventies but I do recall having that t-shirt with the picture of the truck on it. Great logo as well.
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It is best to get the questions out in the open. Then they can be resolved from their incessant turning on a ‘dead spot’. That dead spot is the ‘me’. It is ‘the one’ who pretends to be what it is not. It has no home, no rightful place and if you really look into it, it will be revealed that it is NOT the immediacy of LIFE. It is a story told by a slow and cumbersome old mechanical thing called ‘old mind’ – the ‘me of memory’.
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UGC shatters me and casts the shards,
Into timeless winds of nothingness.
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We have done so much….. with so little…….for so long…………
Now, we can do anything with at all…..with nothing at all……………….
From the creative team at the UGC……………
What creative team at the UGC?
Two funny brain cells out in the nether regions…….they only kick in in the early morning….and after coffee they seem to settle down.
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TO: Gilbert and Areti
SUBJECT: Proposed Marketing Plan for Non Duality
ACTION PLAN: Place the following ad in all major spiritual and alternative mags.
*******************************************************************
DO YOU WANT TO BE ENLIGHTENED IN JUST TWO DAYS?
REGISTER NOW at the two day NON DUALITY WEEKEND INTENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you want to find your Self?
Do you want to achieve loving and lasting relationships?
Do you want to achieve your financial goals?
Do you want peace, serenity and stillness to be a significant part of your life?
Do you want to know the TRUTH about meditation?
At the NON DUALITY WEEKEND INTENSIVE the answers to the above SECRETS will be revealed!
You will be shown that the spiritual search is the problem…
You will be shown you already are what you are seeking…
You will be shown you already are that infinite field of all possibilities…
You will be shown you actually do nothing…
You will be shown nothing ever happens…
You will be shown you are not born and never die…
BEST OF ALL you will be shown why YOU DON’T NEED TO DO ANYTHING to reach your goals!
BUT EVEN BETTER! THERE’S MORE! You will be shown how you CANNOT DO ANYTHING to reach your goals!!!!!
At the end of the two days you will GET NOTHING and understand that there is NOTHING to do. That is why this is the BEST VALUE course around!
In fact, you will understand why you should enjoy life while you can.
For the amazing cost below you will be shown how to JUST BE…. and how all things JUST ARE… and that there is nothing to be done.
This weekend intensive is a MUST and is reasonably priced at:
COST: $US1000 (early bird discount $US765)*
* This is the course fee only and food and accommodation is extra. Steak knives are FREE!
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Wow Bill, amazing. Creative writing there, for sure. ‘Who’ is going to pay a thousand buckeroonies for ziltch? I think Cameron’s idea about the t-shirts may be better. At least ‘they’ get something tangible. Hey, not bad. I will get some t-shirts done. The urban guru t-shirt factory. All the staff (2) can wear them. I am organizing some business cards. Anyone interested in a t-shirt, email us.
Possible logo’s: “There’s no business like no business” and “Virtual coffee is best” on the back It gives you a ‘high’ without that bitter ‘after taste’. The ‘real’ Cafe idea is a good one. Franchise around the Globe. Every major city has one. ‘We’ get rich and spoiled rotten, fall into the dualistic mind trap and we have to start all over again. Actually we should approach Starbucks with this concept.
The great thing about the UGC, as it is, is that no one asks for their money back and if anyone doesn’t like what is on offer, they don’t have to come back for more – but quite often they do, over and over – and still they complain.
“Human nature is harder to change than a thousand dollar bill”.
I think I better stop this idle chat, my ‘pink haze’ is starting to slip away.
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What about securing freecall 1800 NOTHING…
People can call and no one answers!
Blasphemous!
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Actually I like the T-Shirt idea. IT will be KOOL. Anyone who is no one will want to have one….BUT….There is only ONE, so I guess I get to have it. Copies may be available soon. Special editions of the UGC programs will ONLY be available for those with a t-shirt. Ha…..now we are onto something.
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Put me on the t-shirt list! And the “real” cafe list for that matter!
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The real Cafe will have to wait until one of those mega rich millionaire’s drags themselves away from one of the ‘popular gurus’ after discovering the value of what is on offer through the UGC. Once we sell over a million t-shirts, we can think about a real CAFE.
We will have to have the BEST coffee beans that there are though. The standard will have to be exceptionally good. All offers are to be made through the UGC email account.
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Hey! Non duality is a seroius subject and we don’t want people out there thinking we are flippant!
However…some light hearted jousting is fun.
On a more serious note I propose we cease with this Urban Guru Cafe stuff and start a new website called ALT…the Academy for Lateral Thinking!
Gold memberships go for free to Gilbert and Areti… and anyone who has placed a post to date on this site gets a free Silver Membership!
Everyone else pays an annual membership fee… to be determined.
The bulk of the memebership fees could be used for a bloody big club house on the beach somewhere (in Melbourne) with free accommodation for those with gold and silver memberships.
Everyone else pays! We call them the “Paying People”…or affectionately known as PP’s.
The PP’s run fund raising activities so we can continue to get the message out there…and perhaps buy a gold Mercedes Benz for whoever we elect as ‘the main man’.
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I think the T-shirt should be an actual tattooed T-shirt on your body, Gilbert.
Then you could say it comes with a lifetime guarantee.
Wish the coffee around here wasn’t so virtual.
Strong is good.
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Tattoos on the body….ouch……that isn’t so flippant. Actually I am a bit tired of serious types. They sure have missed the boat. I love the scene in “As it is in Heaven” movie, where the wife of the Minister, of the local church, dresses him down to size. Now he is a portrait of a ‘serious person’ so representative of so many ‘do-gooder’ church-y types.
As for the virtual coffee, I think it is getting stronger lately.
This so-called ‘non duality teaching’ can go off track so easily. I just watched a video of ‘one of ours’ and wow, what a waste of time. The ego just loves the spiritual atmosphere of being ‘the one who knows’. What the hell have candles got to do with this clear and direct pointing?
No, I am not going to get into the naming thing again.
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‘We’ get rich and spoiled rotten, fall into the dualistic mind trap and we have to start all over again.
That made me laugh out loud! I seriously like the t-shirt idea though! And if you were to open up a real café, I agree you should serve only the best espresso type coffees, none of that awful filter crap.
Hope you don’t mind me spoiling all the recent funny posts with another question?
It’s regarding the point of when someone asks you to put your hand on your knee and raising it again (John’s example). I can quite understand that I would be hard pressed to explain how I did it if asked, but there is still a feeling of a someone doing it. If not then who or what is it exactly that hears the command “put your hand on your knee” and who or what is following the command? Something is hearing and then something is reacting to it, no? Am I missing something?
Thank you for bearing with me.
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It is a good question. Is there a good answer?
Let’s see.
By what means do you ascertain the arising question ‘who hears the command?’….?
Everything registers on awareness.
The ‘doer-ship’ concept is a habit.
The Buddha is reported to have said: “Events happen, deeds are done – there is no doer there of.”
Now the thing to realize is that as that ‘thought being’, as that unfolding appearance of thinking ‘you’ can’t get behind the thinking ‘with thinking’, as a ‘thought being’.
The actuality is that you are already beyond it and it is all SEEN – (without any concept of being a ‘seer’) – It all registers cleanly and immediately – and there is no need for the mind to process it. The mind’s job, so to speak, is to protect the organism from danger, find food, shelter, sex and whatever. Where do the impulses arise for all these ‘needs’? One can come up with a whole range of theories and even qualify for a professorship in a university because of some brilliant theories – all good for the protection of the organism – more or less. Yet theories never truly answer the question. There is only one ‘thing’ that dissolves the question – the disappearance of ‘the questioner’. As Bob Adamson vividly points out “The question is the questioner”.
Intelligence is ‘prior’ to all of its forms and appearances (and untouched by them).
EVERYTHING is spontaneously happening – prior to the thinking apparatus. It is also spontaneously appearing. No separation.
The origins of this apparent separation, the one that seemingly causes so much trouble is with the ‘me’ concept, which is accompanied by the ‘not me’ concept.
As Siddharameshwar says (in the 1920′s) “Duality is due to the ‘seer’ and the ‘seen”.
Now SEE this: The seer and the seen are contained in the SEEING.
The seer is the thought ‘I see’. Without that thought arising – there is only SEEING.
Even when the thought arises there is truly only ever SEEING.
So this equation is the core factor that runs throughout all the ‘pointers’.
The mind can NEVER divide ONE-NESS.
It only appears to divide one-ness – or to divide anything into parts.
Recognizing this can happen at any moment – but it is more likely that it will be recognized (in the spaciousness of no thought) ‘when’ the mind content is dropped.
WHO drops the mind content? WHO HEARS a sound? WHO moves the hand that rocks the cradle? ONE singularity – ONE intelligence MOVES every atom, every quark and it lights up everything that is appearing in the SEEING.
There is no distance – no volume – no time – no duration to THIS actuality.
The ‘me of memory’ which is what everyone takes themselves to be is time bound.
It is NOT the immediacy, except as what it is, a thought appearing.
I don’t SEE how this can be put any more clearly.
In thinking about this, ‘My Mind’ is at a loss as to why it seems that this is not instantly recognized by ‘others’. You may recognize or see what kind of a catch is in such thinking. Don’t be concerned with ‘others’.
“Do not try to see through the eyes of others” – another quote from Siddharameshwar.
Don’t put your trust in thoughts. See them for what they are.
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I AM a thought… “appearing” in the immediacy.
I can’t know this, however,,, can’t “get” ‘It’.
Can’t stop trying,,, never started.
Please put “Toddy” on the menu>
It’s basically cold pressed coffee with a great KICK and almost no acidity>
Hmm, I know some Non- people who actually fit that description.
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Re the Chris question above:
“If not then who or what is it exactly that hears the command “put your hand on your knee†and who or what is following the command? Something is hearing and then something is reacting to it, no? Am I missing something?”
This is an excellent question…but how are ‘you’ able to ask it? When truly you are beyond the question. The question is content and therefore seen by the limitlessness…which is you.
‘You’ are not hearing…and ‘you’ are not reacting. There is only seeing…there is only intelligence…immediate and ever present intelligence.
Let’s break this up into small pieces…and let’s start somewhere one million light years away! See the planets whirling around. It is obviously the intelligence…there is no one in a control room somewhere pushing buttons.
Come in a bit closer. See the waves crashing on the beach. What is running the show? The same intelligence. There is only one intelligence.
Go into the back garden and see a bean shoot pushing through the dirt? The same intelligence is patterning this..
Look around and see everything and anything…including animals and plants. What is running the show? The same intelligence.
Look at other human beings? What is running them? The same intelligence.
Nothing is excluded from the ONENESS.
Look at the body/mind. What is running the believed in entity? What is running the digestion, the cell destruction and cell replacement program, the nail and hair growing activity…all the same intelligence.
You cannot exclude the body/mind from the ONE or the WHOLE. The same intelligence that runs the planets also runs the body and mind. You do nothing! You cannot do anything!
So the “hand on the knee etc” action is the activity of the intelligence at work… so to speak. The intelligence patterns endlessly into diverse patterns which amongst other appearances includes seeming human beings with seeming minds. The intelligence and the appearance obviously are not separate…how could they be? The appearance is the ‘proof’ of the intelligence…it knows Itself through this activity.
You are the intelligence…the limitlessness…the no thing…
You are not the body, the mind nor the thoughts and concepts.
The body/mind does nothing. It is an expression of the intelligence…and there is only intelligence. The natural state is beyond anything arising in the mind.
Any question that arises is patterning by the intelligence… and the patterning is not you. ‘You’ do not ask the question. There is no doer.
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A Neurologist told me yesterday that awareness was a product of the brain,that without the brain there can’t be awareness…but if there was not awareness how could there be a brain?? right now the brain is dead matter if this intelligence energy doesn’t replace the cells or make the blood and oxygen inside it…the brain is just machinery ,it can’t do a damn thing without that awareness or presence;it’s obvious that this intelligence energy must be there first before there was any brain…so it’s completly the opposite of what science says…but scientists have to pay their bills!:-)
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In the philo cafe yesterday,everybody thought I was crazy or a new new age product!
I suggested they look for themselves rather than believing in what I said… it’s not a matter of belief but a bruct fact,an evidence…but they prefered see that as pure obscurantism or mysticism…ah,beliefs,beliefs!:-)
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A Neurologist cannot afford to see through the belief in such things. His or her career depend on not seeing this. Same for your average therapist. Non Duality ‘became’ popular with many psychotherapists in recent years. It was a trendy thing to get into and the market supported it. Much of it was based on some concepts perpetuated by some popular gurus about having to work through one’s condition and having to learn how to live this awakened state. It is all rubbish and nothing but career based belief. Very profitable, since there are endless supplies of such ‘devotees’ in the ‘spiritual hot spots’ around the globe.
A yoga teacher can’t afford to see through the concept of ‘union’.
There is NO duality in Non Duality Full Stop.
No one is doing anything. It is all the most magnificent display of patterns within patterns.
In fact it is ONE Pattern. Appearing as an unfolding Fractal, called ‘The world’.
The world appears in awareness. The world appears to be.
What you truly are never appears or disappears, it was never born and is deathless.
Everything is naturally resolving itself as it is, in the appearance.
In Essence nothing is happening.
This is exceedingly OBVIOUS right there where you appear to be.
It is the very ‘thing’ that has never changed and of which the mind has never had a label for, it is never spoken of because no word can ever describe it and all that can be done is to ‘point to it’.
The moment of recognition is a speck of it crashing though the habitual mind.
That is just a dramatic description and it is not all that correct.
Whatever it takes to ‘bring about’ this recognition it is valid.
It happens when you least expect it to and yet it is totally available right now.
What is it that stands in the way?
Could it simple be beliefs and a constant gravitation into thoughts?
I will leave you with that. See what comes up.
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“In essence nothing is happening”…in some places you can be burnt for telling that!
“How dare you say there is no past and future?? “how dare you get rid of my precious stories??” some time ago I suggested that in some french philo cafes in Paris (french are not very open to that!) , I was considered then as a negationist!
Right now where is the past,where is the future?? only thought patterns suggesting a past and a future…that’s obvious,but not for some apparently!:-)
- Tres Bien?
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Ok now>> Is this the Gilbert, Areti and Bill Tys show?
Too many words, B.T.~
Gi-Ji did just fine answering Chris’s question>
One seems to have to wade through a lot of squiggly’s to find the “Meat”>
Too much appearing as too little, I suppose;)
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“Don’t put your trust in thoughts. See them for what they are.”
This was a trap here that wasn’t fully seen through. Remnants of habitual thought-patterns, collections around a core “me” idea, crumbled but only NOW. Who believes in an I that cannot be located and does not actually exist? WORDS. The Way is beyond language … yet there is SEEING-KNOWING devoid of linguistic translation. As John G wrote, “”What the One source is – cannot be perceived or conceived simply because there is no other to perceive the One. Yet, there is an undeniable presence that the “I†thought refers to. Find what the mind calls “I.†Be relentless until the Source is clear. Everything conceivable and perceivable is appearance – in the presence/awareness – that belongs to no one. That, I am.”
It’s a beautiful stunner of paradox (thanks for that Randall!) … There is only The One yet when that false idiotic belief in a separate energy-pattern “I” call “me” is the unseen unknown paradigm-operand then investigation – rather than argument! – is (apparently!) assuredly called for…. and yet “there is NO duality in nonduality!” Not True Not False. IS. So obvious once accurately pointed out byThe One Beyond Language.
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Hi Gilbert,
Before coming to your site and before some real SEEING apparently occurred, I had read a lot of UG Krishnamurti. The “me” used to get really ANGRY and agitated when reading his words. So, “I” got brave and decided to look at his words again…no problem now EXCEPT for when “he claims” there has to be a total alchemy in the body and that the shift is indeed a physiological change. It appears his body went through some major transformation and “I” know that is still “an experience” appearing in what is. Can you comment on this? Thank you!
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Some body-mind organisms may be so tied up in turmoil, like an old ships rope left lying about in the bottom deck corner. Knotted and twisted. ‘When’ something comes along, some radical information, the rope relaxes and all the knots start to unfold naturally.
A ‘new state of being’ appears for the rope. The rope may believe that a paradigm shift has taken place due to the ‘information’. The absence of tension is what ’causes’ the rope to unfold into an ‘orderly pattern’. U.G. was a ‘free radical’ and his words were often contrary to all other teachers. He swam ‘against the flow’. This draws attention and challenges beliefs in those who read his words or in those who met him face to face.
Some other teachers were convinced that U.G. was a sick .m. f. Years ago I enjoyed reading a few pages – but then I was repelled from reading more. Everyone is different.
It is all in the appearance of ‘things’. Whatever it is that is necessary for ‘you’ to bring about a ‘total relaxation’ is valid.
Ultimately there is no rope and the inner turmoil is just a resistance to ‘what is’.
In total relaxation, when the habitual mind is at rest, SEEING and KNOWING are clearly present. ‘When’ the ‘old mind’ is at rest, ‘then’ the freshness of this immediate living-ness may ‘allow’ new insights and fresh thoughts to arise.
Of course all thoughts are actually fresh. But the patterns they appear to be may be stale repetitions full of (almost) instant belief.
U. G. may well have believed in a total alchemy – and there is a TOTAL ALCHEMY – but it isn’t localized. It is the WHOLE.
When it is seen (without belief in a seer) that the world appears IN what you ARE.
That is a radical shift, so it would seem.
The NEW Radical SHIFT is that the NEW U.G. has arrived. The Urban Guru Cafe is where you will find ‘him’ – not a ‘person’ – ‘he’ is an ‘incentive’ – a movement of sharing radical and direct ‘pointing’. Each participant on these programs is the new U.G. – the Urban Guru. Like it or not – this website is making inroads, cutting down fences, knocking over ‘old walls’ and getting ‘in your face’.
“We have only just begun” – ever fresh. The equipment for making the programs would have fitted into U.G. Krishnamurti’s little carry suitcase. He would have liked that. If anyone has any free clear recordings of him speaking, I would consider making a program on him…..not to glorify HIM…..but just share anything that is totally clear that he was pointing to.
Dead Gurus are safe gurus. It’s the living ones you have to look out for. They can challenge your hidden beliefs.
Some of the points in your question are covered in the next program.
Bill: Don’t worry mate, poets are sensitive creatures. It isn’t all about ‘personalities’ but for ‘personalities’ it isn’t about anything else.
No offense intended there. It is only a ‘me’ that can be offended.
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The ego head of abbocarnu arose,
The one who writes the ENDLESS prose.
Concerned about the “wordy” posts,
Little knowing… they are all ghosts.
Very kind regards,
Bill Tys
PS I do enjoy the poetry.
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Robin, Here is my take on this for what it’s worth.
(While you wait for Gilbert’s comments).
Any comments made by any character (UG Krishnamurti) in the dream are just conceptualization appearing within the duality. No answer is correct or incorrect or in between. There is nothing to hold on to as nothing that appears or disappears is real. All views that parade in front of you within the dream are just concepts and have no value or weight to them.
When this was first seen a terrible negative quality descended ‘here’ and a view of what’s the point of anything took hold.
Then it was seen that the negative energy was just thoughts that were appearing within the aware presence.
The thoughts also had no weight or value, so everything was seen through again……. and reappeared AS IT IS.
Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Not two!
quote:
“there has to be a total alchemy in the body and that the shift is indeed a physiological change”
It is still only ‘a happening’ in the dream! What’s to gain or lose! You already are what is being pointed to. Who cares what alchemy happens or doesn’t?
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“Be relentless until the Source is clear.” I like that. How does one determine what is necessary to bring about a “total relaxation”? Is it pretty much an individual, spontaneous thing that just happens? So is the “I” thought somewhat like a pointer to the Source, a Witness of sorts, or is it an simply invitation to delusion to be discarded?
UGC is helpful in blowing away my “me” stories as they emerge. otherwise it’s like “an unweeded garden, things rank and gross in nature possess it merely ” Many thanks.
I ran into an interesting quote from Wei Wu Wei: “Many of us are unhappy because 99% of what we think and do is about a “me” that does not exist.” Keep on dispelling the myths. It saves a lot of time for some us out here in cyberspace.
Abbocarnu: I like the fine words.
One note on neurology: there is no necessary incompatibility between science and nonduality in my mind. What they call awareness is very different from what is being said here. Neurologists and philosophers alike appear to be baffled by consciousness and have no satisfactory explanations for it even by their own standards. Oliver Sacks is a good example of a fair-minded, deep thinking neurologist.
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The quote is more like this: “Why are you unhappy? Isn’t it because everything that you think, say and do is for yourself – and there isn’t one.” – I have a short you-tube video on this quote plus the story of the man who finds where God lives. Look up Wei Wu Wei to find it. Oliver Sacks features regularly on another podcast called Radiolab – an excellent series of programs – NOT non duality based – but very interesting – they cover many subjects and sometimes get close to what we are talking about here.
There is one point that is clearly self-evident here at the UGC. Nothing is asked of you.
No one is trying to convince you of anything. No fees are due. No attendance records are kept. No beliefs are required. No hymns to sing and no devotional postulations are necessary. The basic incentive of the UGC is to POINT at WHAT IS.
Even if you (so-called) ‘get it’, no one will come after you and ask for a generous donation.
As one Zen Master said a few hundred years ago: “Everything is resolved in the unborn mind”.
That is not pointing to some future time, when everything will be resolved. It is pointing to the actuality. Right NOW.
The only ‘thing’ that was apparently born is the concept of ‘me’. You can die to that concept right now. It is just a habit and habits can be broken.
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‘what is mind, no matter….what is matter, nevermind’ … George Berkeley
one of the few ‘westerners’ to ‘get’ the false subject object duality….at least from the little i’ve read
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AND he is openly denigrated by so many intellectuals. Dismissed as a madman.
His paper on a discourse between Hylas and Philonus is a classic. Heavy going for some and written in ‘Old English’, it logically ‘proves’ that objects don’t exist. I have tried to get the text translated into every day English by two very bright ‘individuals’ and both have given up. Too much of a challenge, just to read it, let alone translate it. Interesting turn out, in my opinion.
Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj’s statement (1920-30′s) cuts through it all:
“Duality is due to the ‘seer’ and the ‘seen’.”
This is at the very core of all of our misunderstandings.
The mind translates WHAT IS into words and images – and we take the translation to be ‘reality’.
Recognizing this ‘fact’ stops the mind dead in its tracks. If only for a brief ‘time’ – it is enough to bring ‘the whole house of cards’ tumbling down.
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Yea, B.T., that was some frustration arising about “words”, probably “mine”.
Illusions arising in illusion, about illusion*
Kinda came out of the blue, not really directed at “you”.
Peace
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“When’ love and hate (dualistic thinking) are absent – everything IS clear and un-disguised”.
There is ONLY one WHEN and that is NOW.
There is no peace in the mind. It’s nature is restlessness.
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I would like to thank you Gilbert and Bill for your thoughtful replies, which were read here more than once. I guess I still have some ‘digesting’ to do, as there is still some confusion, though less perhaps. So it’s all the Intelligence that’s ‘doing’ the hearing of the command and the executions? It doesn’t come from the mind at all? I still get the feeling that some choice is involved. For example, if we both decide that you would give me the command to lift a finger 3 times in a row, then couldn’t ‘I’ then decide, for example to lift my finger, say, only once and then ‘choose’ to ignore the other two times? Sorry for being persistent. It musn’t be easy explaining this to newbies like myself
I will read the reply once again. Perhaps something was missed.
Also Gilbert I do seem to recall coming across an hour long (I believe) interview with U.G Krishnamurti which was done by that guy Ian from Conscious TV back in the seventies. If you are interested I could always find it and link it here for you.
Thanks again for everything. There is no other website quite like this one.
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Hi Chris. Let’s not put links on this site too often. The point being that most of the material ‘out there’ is not clean pointing. It can often muddy things up.
Some may object but they are used to objecting – and they do not have a clear mind on this so-called subject. I will stress that there are very few ‘out there’ who are clear and direct. Some have the opinion that THEY and they alone are clear on this. I am not taking that stand at all. Great care is taken not to allow too much diversion away from the directness of the direct pointing. This is intelligence in action.
Many may not be aware of how ‘clean’ this site is as far as directness goes. No belief is asked of anyone.
It is highly unusual. The first page of all the major gurus and teachers have ‘catches’ for seekers – it is just good business.
We are not about ‘sucking people in’ – we ‘suck them out of the illusion’ of being a separate self.
The slightest suggestion of something to ‘do’ or ‘attain’ will drag the mind back into habitual patterns of belief. Of course if we were to be totally strict, the programs would be silent audio tracks or just music. No utterance can be totally true. The WHOLE utterance called the Universe is complete and no part can stand alone and represent the WHOLE.
Even so each fraction of the relative is nothing but the WHOLE – appearing as some ‘thing’.
My point about U.G. is that if some clear recording were to be found, I could select clear passages – so enabling U.G. to continue to ‘point’, so to speak. Many other teachers were very direct at times. If they could have only stayed with the directness, it may have been ‘better’. Of course it is all postulations. What is remains as it is.
If you think you are ‘waiting for the train to come’ then these programs can entertain you. In the midst of it all, some clear pointing may just CLICK for you.
Ultimately, it doesn’t ‘matter’ whether it does or not. You are THAT immediacy already.
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Thanks Gilbert and Bob Seal for your comments regarding my U.G. question…
I love this site!
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Thought “I” could take a break from this, but it seems to permeate every thought or action in MY life these days. Man, I listened 4 times to this program and once again I felt like a drug addict coming back for a fix… a temporary bandaid for a gaping wound that just won’t go away. So much has arisen here recently, most of it VERY uncomfortable, leaving me scrambling like an ant when the rock is turned over and it is exposed to the sunlight. How can “I” be running away from and towards this at the same time. Really good forum comments and “other people’s” honesty helps me show up here, Not Knowing, afraid and exposed.
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There is nothing to be afraid of. ‘Who’ is afraid? It is a story – a self-destructive story of ‘me’. Do not play with it. Its days are numbered. Maybe less than the number of fingers on a hand. It can be seen through in one instant. This instant is all there is.
What you ARE is invincible. Your authentic natural state is fearless.
The only thing that was born is the concept ‘me’. It is harmless if it is understood – understood for what it is. The squirming sensations are the tentacles of habitual belief being exposed. Do NOT run away from this sensation. Go INTO it……right into it.
Be it for as long as it takes………it WILL reveal itself for what it is.
This is no trifling matter. The courage to ‘do this’ is in your very nature.
What is authentic is authentic. What is not real can NEVER ‘become’ real and it cannot stand up to what is real. Be this reality that you are.
You are reality. What you have believed yourself to be is vulnerable – because it is thought – thought is a subtle vibration and it is constantly changing shape. It needs support to continue with its charade. Withdraw the support.
The ease of being will rise up by itself.
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Gurus play games with seekers. It is nothing but insidious mind games.
Seekers remain seekers when they are fed with bullshit.
This is no game. There is nothing more serious than this.
And I am no guru…….
I KNOW what I am expressing first hand…………..it WORKS….but you must face it full on………
drop the concepts…………
As Bob says “The only way out of the mind is FULL STOP.
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Mark: These pointers do tend to shake things up a bit. For me the not knowing is better than knowing things that aren’t true, but it can get uncomfortable, but I think it’s worth it.
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Gilbert,
There is not an inkling of doubt that what you say is truth .
“I” don’t find truth in the content, it just resonates AS REAL.
This part is a bit confusing.. you said:
Do NOT run away from this sensation. Go INTO it……right into it.
The experience here is that “IT” (sensation) arises as a feeling in the stomach and chest and is immediately labeled “Fear” by the mind. Interesting that these days in “Life Happening” here, almost No (sensation labeled fear) ever arises.
When the is an “Active Participation” (who am i) self inquiry with no attempt to answer, two sensations arise almost Every time. One is the feeling of complete expansion like this focal point here gets stretched out in every direction and I loose complete sense of a body. This sensation (labeled as pleasurable) by the mind, and if Not Grasped At, leads immediately to a momentary “Blackout” (time and duration unknown) and a falling sensation that seems terrifying.
Twice, this has seemingly been “Allowed”, the first time, It was like I was floating IN the sensation, I WAS the sensation and Nothing else registered but THAT.
The second time, yesterday, in the same sequence of events, Felt the sensation arise in the body, saw the labeling (but like a very quiet voice this time)… expansion sensation, falling. This time, however “I” (not really knowing how it happened), intentionally magnified the sensation and again, “I” could not see or be Anything but that. What followed is completely unexplainable except that I spent the next half hour or so bawling my eyes out for absolutely no reason.
I couldn’t even figure out, nor was “I” trying to, whether there was sadness or extreme joy.
Really, I know that all of this stuff (feelings/sensations) come and go and I don’t even care about that right now. I don’t even want explanation or validation.
I just have No Idea What The FU^* is going on and that’s perfectly fine for some reason that I can’t fathom.
Figuring it out is just not an option>
Thanx Gilbert for the clarity and all who share honestly here>>>>>
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In the appearance of ‘things’.
Seekers so want to ‘become’ something that has been conceptualized or heard about, something other than what they think that they are NOW.
In the appearance ‘we’ are all ‘becoming’ something but that becoming never takes on a permanent form as ‘being’. The ‘becoming’ just continues to ‘appear’ to unfold.
The concept of enlightenment is a classic example. We have heard, read or imagined this ‘thing’ called enlightenment and a desire for it wells up somewhere. A longing eats away at ‘our very soul’, or so it would seem. This longing drives us on and on year after year, decade after decade, with only brief moments of feeling complete.
Many of us have been led on by someone we trust or trusted. A guru or teacher.
If that guru or teacher has been indulging in a concept of a personal enlightenment for themselves, then their ‘help’ has been nothing much more than a merry-go-round-ride.
Alright, so it feels a little uncomfortable. Honesty? You want honesty?
This is how I know that it is all bullshit. …………..There is NO BECOMING.
The KNOWING of this is right here right now. This KNOWING is indestructible and yet it is NO THING.
I cannot find anything with any substance or independent nature that I can call ‘me’ or ‘I’. – Yet ‘I’ challenge ‘you’ to discover the same self-evident immaculate ‘state of affairs’.
The investigation of this and the sub sequential, revolutionary and inevitable discovery was NOT a seeking. It is SEEING, always IS. The one who pointed ‘me’ to make the investigation ‘appeared’ in the SEEING. The investigation ‘appeared to happen’ but not by ‘my doing’. Intelligence was ‘directed’ to ‘go into’ the intense discomfort, into this believed in pattern of ‘becoming’. There ‘appeared’ a going right into it. No resistance could stop the ‘advance’ of this pure energy of discovery. The believed in ‘form of resistance’ dissolves naturally. It is like a shadow receding from the light.
The pattern of ‘becoming’, the believed in ‘me’ that was so uncomfortable was nothing but resistance and it could NOT stand up to this ‘advancing’ and penetrating investigation. All this appeared to take about 1 or 2 seconds. It is a revelation beyond imagination. What was discovered was this: There is NO becoming. Everything simply appears to be – it all appears in the SEEING.
The seeker can try as hard as it wishes to resist reality or try to become whatever it imagines – and it will FAIL. IT WILL FAIL…..IT has to fail – because there is NO BECOMING.
The same applies to what the seeker is running away from. Instead of running away, GO INTO that pain or suffering, BECOME it totally. Let not one quark of it escape. Be it ALL. The revelation will inevitably ‘happen’ and it will be a UNIQUE revelation – not as I describe it or how anyone else may describe it – in fact any description may well ‘appear’ to hinder things if it gets ‘in the way’. But nothing can hinder it.
If this is ‘done’ then the story of seeking will be abandoned not by any magic – but simply because it can NEVER be believed in again.
Normally such things as this are not expounded in a public place. ‘People’ can get very nasty if their ‘game’ is exposed. Especially gurus.
All the ‘becoming’ stories are nonsense. It is all bullshit. The gurus obviously ‘think’ that they are special, very special. Bullshit.
We are all made of the same stuff. The revelation is nothing but SEEING-KNOWING – seeing and knowing what IS.
There is NO BECOMING. So all the stories of becoming are falsehood.
All the becoming enlightened, if you ‘do’ this and that and all the learning how to embody the teaching and learning HOW to live the enlightened life is ALL BULLSHIT.
Go ask for your money back. How many thousands has it been? Foolish seekers try to become. Wake up. You have been duped by a smooth talking scoundrel.
If you must have a teacher or guru, then get one that points directly.
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Gibert,
Does the word “SOON” mean the same in Australia as it does in the rest of the world..
A while back you said,
“A new installment comming soon”
What does “soon” mean to you?
I can’t stop checking this site out everyday..it’s fascinating to say the least.
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SOON is a relative term. It can mean 5 minutes or 5 years.
It means the same as ‘you mean it’. Meaning is imparted by intelligence.
We all use language to express things.
“I have no fear to use any word I wish to use.” The word ‘I’ or ‘I wish’ are just expressions, common to us all.
Everything unfolds in the appearance. I KNOW that the program will appear SOON because I made it and it is just a matter of seeming ‘time’ before it appears.
There appears to be WAITING – waiting for the ‘webmaster’ to put the program on the site.
I can only assume that you are being candid.
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All expressions that take place in the duality have no REAL value.
Gain and loss are just concepts.
You cannot BECOME what you already are.
“I have this happening or that is happening to this ME” Is just concepts appearing and disappearing. It’s of no value. Cast it aside. Anything that doesn’t stand up to investigation. Remove it until there is nothing left to remove. NETI NETI.
I see that the take no prisoners approach that appears to come from the character called Gilbert. Is a clear view to what is. There is no gentle way to remove ignorance.
Ignorance = IGNORING what is REAL.
The one that will tell it like it is, instead of telling you what you want to hear, is within you. It is your SELF. Look no further.
UGC is the one place where there is no place to hide
If you really want to get all those questions out of the way.
No better place than HERE right NOW.
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That’s Clear Gilbert
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Just kidding with you…Gilbert..
The podcast is well worth waiting for no matter how long I appear to wait.
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And Bob Seal….YES~:)
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As the ancient saying goes: “Your head is in the tiger’s mouth”.
‘When’ it snaps it shut is not up to you.
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then it may be seen that the tiger never had any teeth!
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“If you run away from the Void,you can never be free from it; if you search for the
Void, you can never reach it.”
~Niu-Tou Fa-Yung
You can’t ‘aVoid’, being what you ‘Are’.
suki
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Brave words Nathan – Premature announcement possibly?
It HAS teeth and it BITES. Are you absolutely SURE about your statement?
The ‘poor me’ story and those niggling doubts sure feel like the razor sharp edges of the tiger’s teeth sometimes, don’t they. Be careful of what you say. In no time at all, one may be flooded with doubts and suffering. Even well established Gurus have fallen into massive tumultuous messes. Far too often it would seem.
Self-delusion is rampant in gurus and they are SEEKING just as much as their followers. That is why they NEED the followers, to prop them up in style and grandiose BELIEF.
Good intentions on their own are not enough to dispel belief in ‘me’. I have seen it far too often, ‘people’ sprouting non duality aphorisms – and their lives appearing to be still in turmoil. What is the point of tricking one-self?
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Mark Ellis . . . Here’s something that Mark West sent to me sometime back.
It points to the fact no doing is necessary.
No becoming is needed. It illustrates that Gain and Loss concepts are to be removed.
Nisargadatta Maharaj, from the book “Seeds of Consciousness”, edited by Jean Dunn, October 14, 1979, page 157.
Q: Are there any efforts required to eliminate the concepts so that we can know the Truth, or does it happen by itself?
M: It is spontaneous. The very concept that “I woke up” is the root of illusion.
Q: So there is no effort, just accept it as it is?
M: One in a million will accept this. Others want to gain something.
Q: How do we get out of the mind flow?
M: These mind things are flowing in me also, out of the vital breath, but I don’t accept them. The moment an ignorant person receives an impression, he puts it to the credit of his account, he registers it in his diary.
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EXACTLY. And isn’t this the same salient point that is being made over and over in a hundred different ways?
And…….That ‘one in a million’ is the potentiality of what YOU ARE.
What you believe you are has no potentiality whatsoever.
There is NO VALUE in belief.
As Bob Adamson pointed out to me some years ago: Belief is NEVER the actual.
There is no escape from such potent statements. Wriggle and squirm as much as you like, it won’t do any good.
I say: “Eat the tiger – or the tiger will eat you.”
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point well taken Gilbert….the teeth i suppose though, are always of our own making…and thoughts feeling like they’ve come to some conclusion really is a subtle form, or sometimes not so subtle form of self-deception…..that sort of ‘fall’ or ‘bite’ can really hurt…
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Yes…..but ‘who’ is hurt? It can only be the self-image.
Psychological suffering is unnecessary. Pain is pain, whether it is referred pain appearing in the arm and actually a pinched nerve in the neck or some other pain in the body. ‘Pain in the brain’ is another ‘matter’. Whatever the pain is, it is usually bearable as what it is. If it is unbearable, the body will lose consciousness naturally to protect the organism.
What seemingly ‘becomes’ SO unbearable is the ‘story of me’ and that is a resistance to ‘what is’.
The basic problem is that ‘we’ are bombarded with ‘the story of me’ from all sides, day in day out. The world is seemingly full of it, from bottom to top. The television, the radio, the popular songs, the newspapers. As long as the world appears to be ‘out there’ then there will be at least a subtle belief in ‘me’ and ‘other than me’.
I am not aware of any other ‘teaching’ that is as unrelentingly ‘pointing’ so consistently at the core issues. The ‘world’ shuns such ‘information’ – or appears to.
The suffering individual, and lord knows there appear to be billions of them, is a fictional character. No one is going to believe this. It is never a matter of BELIEF.
The Only Way out of the apparent MESS is through this immediate KNOWING.
This immediate KNOWING is not a story and there is NO ME in it.
One needs to recognize this. Only ‘then’, which is ‘now’, will the psychological suffering ease away. What more could be of such value as the delivery of this message?
There is no money to be made in this ‘broadcasting’ of the ‘seeds’.
Those who make a lot of money from this are not actually telling the direct message.
They are business people, no matter how much the disguise is resembling ‘a true teacher’. They are full of ‘ME’ and that is so obvious it seems remarkable that everyone does not recognize it. But they don’t recognize it because they approach this through the spiritual ‘self-image’. And these gurus feed that self-image with a regular dose of concepts to keep it ‘alive’. It is THEIR livelihood that is at stake. What a wonderfully compassionate service they provide.
Don’t get me wrong – I don’t give a fig leaf about them. It is the distortion of what is true that needs to be erased. They themselves could benefit, not only themselves but all of their followers if only they would recognize their own true nature. But first they would need to stop projecting the image that they have recognized their true nature.
And their ego appears to prevent such insights. Enough.
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Gilbert,
When you say, “As long as the world appears to be ‘out there’ then there will be at least a subtle belief in ‘me’ and ‘other than me.”
Does that mean that you actually don’t see the world as out there but inside your own mind/body? Do you have to remind yourself all during the day that the world is not out there but in you?
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No, it isn’t about reminding the ‘mind’ or brain about anything.
Everything ‘appears’ in the SEEING.
It is not MY seeing or Your seeing.
It is totally obvious that everything appears in the seeing. Even in a logical ordinary way.
The so-called TRUTH cuts through all of the forms, thoughts, concepts and appearances. It is called REALITY.
It is the mind, which is nothing but thoughts, images, concepts, ideas and memories, that has attached itself, as a belief, through mere repetition.
Say for instance that you, upon waking up in the morning, have been ‘programed’ to do a certain ‘action’, let’s say take a shower. It takes on an automatic nature and if for some reason you cannot take a shower, the whole day is somehow not feeling quite right.
‘We’ have, in the appearance of ‘time’ entered into a semi-hypnosis state of awareness.
‘When’ this ‘me’ is thoroughly investigated with clear and present awareness, its foundations are exposed. The remnants of this believed in ‘me’ may hang around for awhile. As the belief loses all of its seeming power, those traces disappear. In that moment, which is always ‘now’, the world is delightfully recognized as being totally WITHIN the scope of awareness. Distance dissolves. Time ceases to ‘tick’. All points of measurement are rendered passive, inert – unnecessary.
The mind is not capable of describing this revelation. The ‘ego’ will certainly grab anything that resembles this and turn it into a story and a career. The ego bound ‘popular guru’ is a prime example of this grasping consciousness. It shows itself most obviously as a ‘Royal Atmosphere’ surround them – it is more profane than sacred. Many are repelled by such gurus. Only certain ‘types’ are attracted to them – by what some call ‘the law of reciprocal vibrations’. ‘Like attracts like’. Bullshit loves more bullshit.
Pardon my bluntness but these things spontaneously appear to be necessarily expressed – clearly and bluntly.
A ‘shock’ can wake a snoring man – but usually not his own snoring.
Reality is NOT for sale.
What I am saying may not make much sense or it may appear as threatening – and it is totally useless to believe what I am telling you.
TAKE NOTE: There is nothing in this for ME, that includes any perceived ‘me’ here or any ‘me’ there.
I am not asking for anything from you. That SHOULD tell you something. All I am doing is sharing an open view, a view that is ALREADY with you.
It is only the ‘me of memory’ and the ‘habitual mind of belief’ that clouds this view.
The intelligence that you ARE may recognize something in what I am saying, or in something someone else is saying – it doesn’t matter.
The ‘recognition’ is the primary value. What you truly ARE knows what is true.
What you think you are has only lies and concepts, old ideas and an image of a ‘self’ that you have never seen or met. It is the great scam.
NO ONE can dismantle this scam but ‘yourself’.
Once done, there may arise gratitude for anyone that has played a part in ‘getting you to investigate’. That gratitude will fade away and only reappear ‘when’ a memory of ‘how it was’ to be bound up in concepts arises. That also fades away – leaving you as you ARE. Present and Aware. Are you not present and aware right NOW?
I rest my case.
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In addition, let me say this. This message is resonating with a large number ‘out there’.
The Urban Guru Cafe is having an impact – no doubt about it. Yes it is all in the appearance. Some are negative and throw stones and eat sour grapes.
It isn’t about anyone in particular and certainly not about ME.
The internet is a tool. The intelligence that I am plus the intelligence appearing as one ‘other’ acted upon an impulse. There was no ‘me’ in that action.
The UGC is almost 12 months old now. Many have already been introduced to the direct pointing. Many more than those who attend particular meeting somewhere.
This podcast is an effective tool. Those who cast dispersions are either jealous or sick in some way. There have been a few so far.
All it takes is a few dozen to emerge from the hypnotic dream of being a ‘self’ and this will spread out like a levy breaking.
Where are YOU in all this story? Awake? Aware?
There is NO doubt about it. It is only the mind that tells you otherwise. Challenge it.
As Nisargadatta says: “The mind is a good servant – but a bad master”.
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There’s ‘no time’, like ‘NOW’!, and not even that!it takes no time to know your ‘SELF’!
the ‘SELF’ at all times remains the ‘Un-manifest’, hence it never succumbs to be seen in the appearance of things!(cannot be objectified and named).
The operative word is ‘appearance’!
Appearance is always subject to change and therefore limited!(not real)
That which is ‘REAL’ is never ‘subject to change’ and is unlimited in all potentiality!
Drink the ‘Potent medicine of True Self Knowledge’!, that is offered here on this site!! (free of charge at the moment anyway:)
Cheers to all at UGC.
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It’s just rooted in there pretty deep…
Trying to put attention on it, without “putting attention on it.” Know what I’m sayin’, mate?
Also, one vote for Gilbert’s continued power-washing of all Urban Guru Graffiti…
P.S. ‘At times,’ there’s just a real creaturely feel that remains — not crammed full with thought.
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The concept of ‘deep’ or ‘deeper’ is just a concept. Nothing is rooted deeply in anything.
This is clearly obvious simply by dropping thoughts and mind projections.
Be OPEN in this clear presence of KNOWING. THIS is not divided into parts – into deep or shallow. The belief in the idea of ‘past’ is just an appearance, an unquestioned belief.
It is nowhere to be found…..in the clear and empty SEEING.
There is only ONE SEEING happening. You don’t need to put any attention on anything.
The mind will just divide things up into duality constantly. The ‘attention’ is habitually locked to the ‘me’. First free the mind from the ‘me’ by seeing through it. See it has no substance. To do that all you need to do is SEE if you can find anything with any substance or independence, that you can call ‘me’. You will discover that there isn’t anything there and that the habit of naming a clear and empty space of knowing as ‘me’ is an erroneous activity. Or conversely try to become this ‘me’ totally, to the ‘enth degree.
Either way it will reveal itself. This is so simple and so ‘effective’ it is actually AMAZING that so few seem to actually ‘do it’.
Why? Is this seeking habit so attractive? There is NO WAY out of it, in ‘the dream of me’ for the ‘me’. It is trapped in its own prison – a prison made of thoughts and beliefs.
They are all ephemeral appearances. What you are is reality.
Where is the problem? ‘Just do it’ as the old t-shirt says.
The intellect may tell you that it has already made the investigation with no result.
Bull crap. There is NO WAY that, if you go into it clearly and SEE what is what, the discovery will not open up.
If you want to be a seeker then SEEK as hard as you can.
Either way it will all reveal itself. Give it 100%. There is no room for half measures in THIS.
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Belief in the thought that you are a separate individual is about the thickness of a Rizla (cigarette) paper. This can be blown away with the softest of breaths.
However, this belief can appear to be the thickness of a bank-vault door. When the Rizla paper blows away, the bank vault door is annihilated and the treasure behind the door is revealed in all its glory.
Rich
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