Urban Guru Cafe

Mark Ellis says:

Thank you Randall, Gilbert and Areti for another hit.

You certainly bring a “sense” of balance to this program and your delivery of the same and Only message on offer here, is very digestible, to say the least.

We are Very fortunate, indeed to have This so clearly delivered.

Maybe This Time, ‘I’ won’t be here to receive it> lol

ThanQ Anywho~
Mark

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Mark Ellis says:

It is certainly Not from lack of information, Rodger, that This seems to be ‘missed’.

What you just said was razor sharp and “Understood”, perfectly.

The mind’s last resort is to “understand” this.

It feels as if the habit of belief is a bit more ingrained in the body and patterns are repeated , mostly going unnoticed by the mind.

The “noticer”, whoever that is ( I AM ) peeks out once in awhile, kinda moves to the foreground, per sey,,, OR it is realized, somehow that “Something” was and is catching Everything…..At ONCE~~~~~~ yea, words.

Man, it can’t get any clearer that here at the UGC, this I know, having perused Vast ammts. of squiggly lines and videos.

I read a lot slower now after catching myself devouring this like a beast, trying to get to the next….. ????? Don’t know if anything is happening , but there is a real sense of ease around some pretty intense ‘story’ that is ‘seeming’ to go down here in markville,,,, and maybe the “Ease” is a story as well.

Randall~~~ Exquisite, My Friend~ (3rd time through this podcast)

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Charlie Hayes says:

Randall is all ways clear

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suki says:

Everything that is perceivable can be translated.(that which is transitory in nature)

That which cannot be translated is that which cannot be perceived or conceived.

Where are you ‘Seeing From’? ~ to coin a phrase from G.

Thanks, Randall, Areti and Gilbert for this wonderful podcast!

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Mark Ellis says:

The instrument through which awareness appears to happen is NOT separate from the awareness, or the cognition.

Bam~!

http://seeing-knowing.com/

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Linda says:

That’s better. Thanks Gilbert and Areti for your editing, and another entertaining and informative podcast. Nice and clear Randall – great message.
Great to hear a bit more from Van Morrison too.

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Robin says:

Hi Kimo,

I appreciate your response…In the appearance, “people” appear to resonate with different expressions of THIS. I resonate loudly with the expressions of Kimo.
(Gilbert mentions this quite a bit…whatever it takes is valid.)
“Anyone on here already has enough pointers to complete an investigation of what they are…(on their own)” Agreed. (Still would like to e-mail you.)

Gilbert,

I know this isn’t a social club…and that you really want to keep this site free of extraneous bullshit…just wasn’t sure how to go about contacting anyone from the site who doesn’t already have a website.

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gilbert. says:

As I mentioned up front: Randall will answer anyone with a genuine question.
……….
‘Who’ gets upset? About what?
My comment about ‘some use false email addresses’ is correct. My comment was not aimed at anyone in particular. In fact a good majority of the comments come with a false email address attached. So if some want to contact others through this comment page, it can only happen if the addresses are genuine. My comment was more directed at the gloomy comment makers, the ‘negative’ sour grape eaters. They are never using their correct address. I know because attempts to contact them always fail.
Some hide because they I know that I know them. I can ‘hear’ their voice quite often as I read the comments. That will spook them for sure.
Whatever disturbance happens, it will pass. The nature of all appearances is to disappear.
Follow the disappearance trail. and……..Don’t stand under a tree in an electrical storm.

As I say quite often: There is no point in pretending to understand non duality. That ‘mind set’ is fragile and can be disturbed as easily as a flock of Flamingos.
There is an old Zen Story (since you love stories) that goes like this.
A Samurai warrior goes to his Zen Master and arrogantly says “Prove to me that Heaven and Hell exist”.
The master replies “You, you sniveling idiot, even if I laid them out in front of you, you would not see them. You half baked biscuit”.
The Samurai swelled up with extreme resentment and removed his razor sharp sword, intending, no doubt, to take off the head of the master without further ado.
As the sword was raised for the fatal blow the master quietly said: “Now the gates of Hell are opening”.
The Samurai fell to his knees as a revelation hit him.
“Now the gates of heaven are opening” whispered the master.

Whatever it take to bring about the recognition is valid. Pretending to be ‘the knower’ is useless. Parading as ‘the knower’ is obscene.

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gilbert. says:

There is a ‘big’ conference on no duality coming up. Many will get excited about it. A massive amount of money will change hands. ‘Experts’ will put forward their concepts and video displays. Conversations around this ‘event’ will perpetuate for ‘some time’.
It will come and go. It is ALL in the appearance. Nothing will be gained and nothing will be lost.
Non Duality does not change.
The recognition that is necessary will ALWAYS come unexpectedly.
It won’t come ‘because’ you attend a conference or because you squeeze your mind into a particular shape to suit someone else’s precepts.
The recognition ‘happens’ because you ALREADY KNOW.
The cognition is already happening.
All the phenomenal appearance cannot alter the ‘knowing’.
There is nothing more intimate and nothing more Cosmic than the recognition of your own true nature. You do not have to take one step in any direction away from what you are right NOW.
All the song and dance is merely entertainment. See it as it is and there will be no problem.
A good and sturdy sign post stands firm and points accurately.
It has no decorations or flags blowing in the wind to assist its ‘function’.
It merely ‘points’. That is IT.
The sign post that dances all over the place is ‘pointing’ all over the place and cannot be trusted. It always points ‘away’ from your true essence.
The crux of it all is: Nothing in the appearance can GIVE anything to anything else in the appearance. A reflection in the mirror cannot touch or influence another reflection in the mirror. It is One Mirror and all reflections are One reflection – not IN the mirror – they are OF the mirror.
What you are looking at is the mirror like nature of ‘your own mind’, except there is no ‘you’ to it…..so there is no ‘your own mind’ as such.
What is deemed to be the most profane activity and the most sacred or mysterious activity is all equal – equal as the appearance.
Where the impressions register, of anything at all, is where one must investigate, to find one’s own true nature – the only ‘journey worth taking’ – the journey of ‘self-discovery’. Which IS the ‘no self’ – discovery

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gilbert. says:

To imply that there is a ‘you’ that can ‘let go’ and then ‘be here’ is an erroneous concept.
The so-called ‘realizing’ that ‘I am here’ is the mind translating the obvious.
There is only HERE, NOW. There is no other time or place. To postulate otherwise is only conceptualization, appearing now.
The Obvious Reality does not need the mind’s translation. There is no one that gets liberated. The concept of liberation is a static concept, which seemingly has meaning because ‘someone’ who is just another thought, attaches itself to the concept of liberation or of bondage. The so-called ‘teacher’ who proliferates such concepts is caught in his own concepts and walks in small circles with his followers chanting ‘I am liberated’.
It is all deluded ‘mind stuff’. No matter how ‘nice and spiritual’ it appears to be.
Although these teachers have been ‘called on’ for teaching erroneous concepts about deliverance and learning to embody the teaching, they have altered their teaching by adding escape clauses. They still obviously believe that they can impart something special to their devotees. It is all nonsense. An appearance cannot impart one electron to another appearance.
The Singular Essence of One does not need any activity from the appearance.
It all appears OUT of the One Essence.
No appearance EVER makes in back into the Singular Essence. It all appears as disappears in One Instant.
In the appearance of things ‘Gilbert’ plays the role of being ‘the bait on the hook’, dangling in the foreground, to entice the hiding ‘ego’ out where it can be seen. So many ‘fish’ take the bait. And a few get a glimpse of the ‘ego game’ that plays itself out, as a pretense of what they are. Once seen clearly it abates and slides away. The bait will continue to appear until the fish stop biting. Such is the drama of life. If I could be shaken by some pathetic grumbling noises, made by an insecure ‘me’ somewhere, I would have given this away a long time ago. It isn’t a ME doing any of it – on either side of the River.

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areti says:

Lev, what is your problem? We all get your message. We’ve let you say it once, say it twice, and your tune hasn’t changed. You are welcome to put up your insights about Gibert’s miss-message, if that’s what you think it is. Talk about the message, that’s what we’re here to do, not the messenger, but at least say something intelligent and worthy of a read. Snide remarks serve no purpose. It’s insights that count. And if you think you have had an insight into ‘Gilbert’s true nature’, you only need say it once. Any more posts along your usual line will be deleted by me.

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gilbert. says:

The mirror like nature of the mind.
Awareness is not disguised as anything.
Awareness IS everything.
Obviously some comments by me have touched a sensitive spot for ‘someone’.
It is only a ‘me’ that can be angry or offended. The suffering will continue its natural course until this ‘me’ is revealed for what it is. This is not a personal message – it applies to all who believe that they are a ‘person’. The friction won’t just disappear by itself.
In this case, I will make a suggestion. Tell us who you really are ‘Lev’, tell us your ‘story’. What is this anger really about?
I am sure many would love to read what lies behind these consistent attacks.
It seems to be more personal than comments on a website. Sharing the caustic substance may give cause for some relief. I am serious.

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Lev says:

Stay with your sacred pointers! don’t waste your time about stories! stay with what you know!

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gilbert. says:

A friend once told me “Never to argue with a fool. First they bring you down to their level and then they beat you on experience”.
So, keep hiding behind your ‘Not pretending’ but I can assure you that what you express is clearly obvious to anyone with an once of intelligence.
Arrogance seems to be your specialty, so it seems. Bye Lev. Enough of these mind games. The message is impersonal but it seems you miss that point.
Listen to the program. These comment pages are for focusing on the ‘topic’ of the program, not ‘Gilbert’. Pity your bravery can’t allow you to reveal ‘who’ you are.

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Lev says:

Areti,
simply look at how Gilbert insult people all the time…you may hear what I mean!his comments speak for themselves!

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gilbert. says:

So, like a fan dancer, nothing is revealed as the fans sway back and forth. As I have pointed out a hundred times, whatever it takes to bring about the recognition of one’s true nature is valid. There is only one ‘thing’ that you can trust – the fact of your own being.
In staying totally with that fact, with an open mind, everything reveals itself.
I do not play the game of being sacred and above anyone. There is no ‘I’ doing anything.
In the appearance there is a ‘stirring up’ going on. The lovey dovey spiritual nonsense does not work. Rousting out the belief in the ‘me’ is effective. Many have had glimpses of the spiritual mind game that they have been playing for decades. Some have opened up into an ease of being with what is. These ‘examples’ were not concerned about ‘others’ or whether Gilbert insults any ‘person’ or not. So, Lev, if you cannot reply clearly to Areti’s questions about the details of what has pissed you off, how can this thing be resolved?
Have the courage of your convictions or be quiet.
My advice to ‘you’ is this: Get out and meet people, enjoy life and stop worrying about ‘others’. Tap into the livingness that you are.
Now can we please get back on track. Has anyone got some genuine questions for Randall?

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areti says:

And let’s face it, if we bite when Gilbert has a go, doesn’t that show up the suffering and lack of freedom from suffering, and obvious identification? And when we are missing the clarity of his pointings and engaging in the story, we miss his gems.

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gilbert. says:

Well, you all go and have a nice little lay down now. Rest up. Get all cosy and snug in your little dream about becoming something other than what you are. Life is full of ‘hooks’ and I do not have a patent on them. If any one can find an example of where I said or wrote that ‘I am enlightened’, I would be very interested to see it. It never happened.
The whole point is to reveal what hides itself in your own psyche. Whatever it takes to reveal it, IS valid. Even the apparent arrogance that I am supposed to display.
It is not about ‘me’ – every response that there is, is happening right there where ‘you’ appear to be. For you, I am an appearance just like all appearances but what you truly are is not an appearance – it never ever appeared. That is why you cannot find it.
Warm regards – Gilbert. I will be quiet now.

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Randall Friend says:

Ste Gunn,

Hello again my friend. Love to you.

“Is Randall still buffeted by the crests and troughs of life? Even if the ‘me’ falls away do the waves stop? Or is there just no more concern for the pleasantries and hardships of life?”

Can an illusion be affected by the crests and troughs?

What you’re really saying is that some situations are good/preferred and some are bad/disliked. But this distinction is only made in mind, placing relative merit to situations/appearances. And these distinctions are tied without exception to this “ME”, which is itself another distinction, another assumption.

So let’s look at what makes up the appearances or situations. The entire basis of the appearance is perception. What is it? Do we really know? We can call it “bad”, but that’s an entirely relative and abstracted concept. Bad to whom? Maybe it’s bad to “you” but not bad to “me”. Maybe it’s good for “me”. So good and bad are entirely relative and abstracted.

But do we really know what it is we’re talking about? What is it? Maybe you lost your job. But what was it? There is an entire story around it, but what is the reality? The reality is – the “waking state” came – then there was an appearance of “showering”. Then an appearance of “driving”. Then an appearance of “working”. Then an appearance of “driving home”. There must be a story around these appearances – we then call it “my job”, “my life”. It’s all strung together in this patchwork of time and space. Past and future. Trying to make the good remain and get rid of the bad. Build up the image of ME – keep the good parts and discard the bad.

So let’s pull out one of the appearances – “driving”. It’s a common experience. But do we really know what it is? There is an appearance of the “road, the car, the wheel, hands, arms, torso, keeping an eye on other drivers.” But there must be concepts about what all these “things” are to get to this point. Do we really know for certain what any of this is? If we say “hands on the wheel”, then the obligatory concept must also arise – “my hands”. If we say “driving” then we must accompany that with “I AM driving”.

We don’t really have the slightest clue that this is what is going on. These assumptions are entirely conceptual. They arise habitually to cover up the inherent mystery of what IS. They are stories meant to obscure the glaring mystery of THIS.

We have no idea that it’s driving, that it’s “my hands on the wheel”. We have no idea of good and bad. It is exactly this continual assertion of concepts and ownership/doership that creates this crest and trough – trying to get it right, trying to sweep away the bad. It’s all built on a mountain of concepts, trying to cover up the core truth – we have no idea. And the root of that is that we have NO IDEA what we are.

Therefore, the spiritual search resonates. Finding out what we are sounds good to us. But we can’t find it in concepts, we can’t find it in the usual way of mind. We can only find it when we see through this conceptual construction of the world. We can only find it when we embrace this mystery of what IS, when we see that there cannot be anything outside of THIS, right here and now.

And in the realization that THIS is a complete, total mystery – the mind pauses – it has no track on which to run – it runs out of conceptual gas. THIS simply cannot be molded in concept – in stories. THIS IS. That’s all we can truly say. And YOU cannot be outside of or other than THIS.

YOU are. And whatever the situation is molded into – it cannot be not-YOU. THIS is YOU. No matter what appears, it’s YOU. This is not discovered because the spiritual search was all figured out – all the complexity was solved. It is discovered in the opposite direction – simplicity. When the complexity is seen to be just more of the same, more conceptualization, translation – then the desire to solve this equation falls away – we’re left in Mystery. We remain with the ONLY TRUTH that is absolutely certain – YOU ARE. Every single thing that comes on top of that MUST be a story.

love
randall

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Mark F says:

“…we all of us, grave or light, get our thoughts entangled in metaphors, and act fatally on the strength of them.”
-George Eliot (Middlemarch)

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Mark Ellis says:

Randall, my Friend,

About stories that appear to happen in this timeless awareness…
T
here was a time when I was really into the self-help, inner child work, Adlerian psychology, beating the hell out of pillows and the lot. In fact, my Father promoted workshops on these topics, back in the 70′s and 80′s. Due to the belief in the story of a bad childhood and not wanting to spend my life as a victim, I pursued those ways and means of “seemingly” ridding myself of the Anger and Pain that was attributed to things that my Dad did to me and my Sisters, when I was young.

Somehow, I saw through that crap at an early age and didn’t spend the thousands that I saw others spending to get “Free”,,,,, thank G*#.

My question in all of that is: Do patterns, subconscious, buried or otherwise have any effect on the “person”, even if they are not aware of it? In other words do any of our actions stem from unconscious ruts or patterns,,, sometimes without our even knowing it?

I ask this because I am seeing behaviors appear, mostly in retrospect, and if nothing else, It surprises me, kinda like>> Where the Hell did That come from kinda stuff????

A lot of the stuff that I notice, (well, Everything), is shocking, in that the Root is seen to be Purely selfish, self centered and All about “ME”. Even the spiritual search and appearing spiritual (praying on the street corners), is seen to be all about this “ME” and what ‘I’ can get, etc. That was a shock and still is, but this is Not supposed to be comfortable, I suppose.

It gets kind of confusing when I try to think about it, so I just watch it happen, without making judgments on it or Trying to figure it out. It seems as if this “Me” personality has a completely different world in which it operates, and whomever or whatever is noticing this, certainly doesn’t seem to be a part of that “me”.

I am hearing about oneness and such, but are the individual me and whatever is “watching” all of it unfold the Same?

Thanks,
Mark

On Gilbert,
Three times you have beheaded “me”, all of those times I resented it and tried to make you wrong, but in This and Only Now, you are appearing as a mirror and if ‘I’ have any “hidden” crap, Of course it will be mirrored back,,,,,perfectly and amazing clearly.

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Kimo (Jim) says:

We hedge our bets by belief in a “halfway understanding”. An understanding that allows for a mystical view of unity but still allows for the unquestioned/uninvestigated presence of a me and a you.
“This is all great, but what do I do about my problems”
“To ignore my problems is childish or escapism”
“How come when I go to a non-duality site the guy running the show is arrogant and impatient even though he’s supposed to be enlightened”

It seems rather simplistic, but it’s the only way. See that presence awareness (or whatever pointer you like) registers everything. It illuminates all. Consciousness, raw data, the person I believe myself to be, the concept of “others”, my problems, time, and space. This isn’t about lulling our assumed selves into a state where all the “bad stuff” disappears or we ignore it in a stupor similar to drugs. This isn’t about getting the “good stuff” for the assumed self or working to get good things to appear. This is about seeing ourselves for what we are. When this is seen, a whole new perspective arises that ceases to ignore what you are. Yes, “you” can still make love, “you” can still go on a website, “you” can still argue, “you” can still eat great food, “you” can still deal with “problems”. Just see what it’s all arising in / illuminated by CEASELESSLY.

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Tom Allen says:

It is said–and someone in the above comments makes this point, but not in the same words–seeing and the seen are one.Would somebody be able to elucidate this position?I have often pondered it and sometimes have thought that I had ‘gotten ‘ it but it seems that the getting wasn’t for good.

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Randall Friend says:

Tom,

Love to you, my friend.

All is contained in the seeing. There is no actual separation between the seer and the seen, except in concept. Can you show me the dividing line? Can you take a picture of the mechanism which actually separates the seer from the seen?

It is in taking the form as self-existent that we assume this subject/object equation. Yet if we take a close look at any form, we cannot ever find it to be self-existing outside of concept. If we look at a flower – is it self-existing? If I pull all the petals off, then the leaves, then break off the top and just hold the stem, will you still call it a flower? No. It’s now “stem”. So flower was a form-ation which was completely dependent on the appearance. Once the appearance changed, the existence of the flower was gone. Then “stem” remained. But if I take that stem and grind it down to powder, what is it now? Stem is gone and powder remains.

We might ask – “where did the flower go?” It didn’t go anywhere because it never existed, outside of name and form.

So the mind makes the existence out of what it sees. And that name and form are absolutely interwoven.

But if we look closely at what we think to be true and self-existing, the body – we see that it’s also made up of name and form. The body is nothing but a constantly changing mass of cells, ceaselessly dying and being replaced. If I look at it through a microscope, I don’t see “body”. I see cells. But those cells are made of molecules, elements, atoms, protons, electrons, quarks, strings, emptiness energy. All “things” are only as such because we are taking the relative appearance to be the absolute and independently-existing reality. Just like the flower.

The seer is nothing but this emptiness. The seen is nothing but this emptiness. And this “emptiness” is intelligent – it moves. It is in this movement of itself that the strings are, the quarks are, the electrons and protons are, the atoms forming elements, the molecules forming cells. The cells become body and then body becomes ME.

So “Tom” isn’t the reality. Tom is name and form. Reality is One Substance. One Essence. Intelligence. Life. Living itself. Knowing itself right now through this perspective called “tom”. Being stuck AS that perspective, we call it “my life”. Recognizing that this perspective cannot be outside the Whole is what Nonduality is about.

love
randall

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Linda says:

In Buddhist teaching from my understanding, “right view” is just the beginning and appears as the first step on the eightfold path taught by the Buddha.

Understanding this non-dual truth does not immediately result in a saint displaying perfect wisdom and compassion. It is necessary to deeply reflect on this truth, if deeply understood and applied this will have a resultant effect on the persons life view and natural altruistic responses to life experience.

The human being has been born with particular propensities and in combination with deeply ingrained conditioning and habits, that idea of self, that habit of self-referencing continues to arise, but less and less over time and eventually will disappear.

I have also read in buddhist related material that at times a realized master may appear angry but he will only be putting on this displayed anger for the benefit of his student, his apparent behavior comes from his compassion and wish to be of benefit to his student, not from an anger based in negative emotion.

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tomvds says:

What does ‘understanding’, ‘the persons life view’, ‘altruistic reponses’ , ‘deeply ingrained conditioning’, ‘habits’, ‘over time’, ‘disappear’, ‘ a realized master’, ‘teacher/student’, ‘apparent behaviour’, ‘wish’ and ‘negative emotion’ have to do with the non-dual truth, the immediacy, the actuality of WHAT YOU ARE? … just fancy stories appearing; that’s all.

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Kimo (Jim) says:

When a man writes “Love to you” to another man it’s only done for three reasons: 1) you are saying this to your son, father, brother on a special occasion 2) you are gay 3) you are putting on a spiritual persona.
When I see “Love to you” on this site I think of a guy sitting cross-legged clanking some finger cymbals together with a thick spiritual air about him.
But, again, it’s all in the appearance and perfectly natural for a non-duality site.
Folks come here with the goal of getting their questions answered by a spiritual being and feeling better about themselves. And that need is apparently satisfied in the Oneness. Seeker arises. Guru who answers seeker arises.
What part of this can we separate and claim is independent of awareness?
Also, we can go on forever correcting each other’s posts and spraying our dog piss around this site to prove who is the Alpha Dog. I’m not in a contest here. It’s all noise. Every explanation is more noise. All registering in what You Are/I am.

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Kimo (Jim) says:

I wasn’t implying that either. Re-read my post. Randall is an excellent spiritual teacher and fulfills seeker neediness quite nicely. And until his pointy “Love to You” finger and explanations are no longer focused on and you follow through on the investigation that he is pointing to instead, the apparent seeking nature will persist.

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Randall Friend says:

Lev (and Kimo). Love to you both.

The world is not outside of you, not “other than”. Not something “seen”. Knowing is Being. So with the removal of the false divider, whatever IS, is your very own Self. No longer is there a subtle resistance or wall to the world, which is what separation implies. THIS is all.

So THIS is being madly in love with the world. And that love overflows. It manifests in every way – every “thing” – every “where”. It has nothing at all to do with spirituality or religion or mysticism or enlightenment – that’s just how the mind translates it.

Love isn’t “I love you”, because that is still a dividing of “I” and “you”. Love is Being. And Being is THIS.

You are my very own Self. And I am your Self. There is no randall and lev and kimo. These are simply names and forms. There is only God, manifesting as the world, moving so that He can know Himself. The world is Love in action, God manifest. Knowing the world is knowing God. Knowing God is knowing your Self.

The wall we build between us and the world doesn’t actually protect us. It separates us from our Self. In “opening” that wall, we aren’t becoming more vulnerable. We recognize our INVULNERABILITY. Our 100% safety. Our absolute unshakable and unmovable certainty. It was the wall itself which caused the uncertainty, which led to the belief in insecurity. It was the concept of separation which led to the belief in the necessity of the dividing/protecting wall.

In openness – the wall disappears. The divider between ME and the world is gone. And therefore nothing that appears can harm, nothing can take away, nothing can add to – nothing that appears can ever be other than what-I-am.

love
randall

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Kimo (Jim) says:

I’ll alert you to your own calling card “you are NO THING”. Every appearance also manifests in NO THING. Leaving us with NO THING. That NO THING registers all, and agreed, nothing is outside You/I. There is no attainment necessary/possible of having overflowing love for all things. There is nothing that can add or subtract from who you are already. This supposed conceptual attainment dangled out there like a carrot leads to attachment to the spiritual teacher by a “somebody who feels they are a separate entity” and a desire to be a carbon-copy of these exalted behaviors (which of course are selectively displayed for public consumption).

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gilbert. says:

Jesus, the attention has gone away from ME. What can I do? Ziltch. It’s actuall quite pleasant. – Cheers and love to you all…Ha.

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Jeremy says:

Kimo, it is all noise, I think everybody gets it. If none of this matters and it’s all in the appearance, why do you try so hard to make your point? If some appearance wants to be a carbon-copy, by your own logic, why not let them? No disrespect intended.

Randall, on the other side of the coin, I do agree that such descriptions can be misleading. In the experience here, to this point, as the message has ‘begun sinking in’, it has seemed to be a bit underwhelming. It is understood that this is just another interpretation, but really, the lack of investment in the ‘me’ notion seems like no big deal in this moment. Perhaps this is only relative to prior expectation.

My question to you is, how important is actual looking, as in optical vision, in the investigation and how is it different than seeing?

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Kimo (Jim) says:

Glad to be of service in taking the heat. I still have my trash can lid handy. Banging on that thing tells us just as much about ourselves as anything written on this site today. But no, we don’t want to be NO-THING or a registering NO-THING. We want to be God or a spiritual persona who has transcended all except of course the need to be kind, loving, and compassionate to all things (concepts, concepts, concepts). And we will follow any who sound good enough to help us reach our “goals”. Being NO-THING is just too sterile. I’m not ready for that type of obliteration. There’s not just NOTHING registering the banging trash can lid; it can’t be! What is registering the trash can lid sound must be pure “loving energy” that reaches out to all but remains formless (and even though we say “formless” we insist on providing characteristics to it like universal love and compassion–right?). Anyway, Forget this Kimo guy! We thought Gilbert was bad. This one is worse. He doesn’t want us to be any-thing. Worse yet, he has no book or MP3 that can help us keep seeking something that sounds good.

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Will says:

The message is presented through these podcasts as clearly as it can be. It is way simpler, more obvious and immediate than can be grasped by the mind of thought and concept. It’s before all that. These never ending wordpiles are ALL the mind, wanting to GET it, to understand on its own terms.
It isn’t, can never be, in the mind. Truer to say the mind is in it.
There is NO IT.
Better to put all this effort into understanding the process, rather than the content, of mind. Better to make no effort at all which feeds the belief that there is something to GET, here.
I’ll go out on a limb here – truly, clearly, get WHY you can’t get it – and you’ve got it….
Understanding that does real damage to the foundations.
None of this is why I logged on this morning, which was simply to share with those who might not already know that there is a refreshing and entirely bullshit-free approach to “this” over at Whatneverchanges.com.
I hope you’ll not mind me sharing this link Gilbert. I look in there and here from time to time and although Annette doesn’t write very often, this morning’s piece seemed germain to here somehow.
Thanks again for these podcasts. For sure the message is out and at large.

Editor: We don’t encourage too many links being posted. Suggestions are fine, so long as the material suggested is clear and in line with what we are pointing at.
Many get confused and very muddled by digesting too many points of view. It is common for ‘people’ to guru hop around and each new one is believed to be ‘The One’. Find one who resonates clearly and stick with them. Mixing ‘teachings’ is like mixing wine – it gets cloudy and obscure. Stick with one. It need not take long to absorb a clear message.

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Fenn says:

Randall.

I find your writing articulate and intelligent – yet sometimes containing a subtle sense of duality.

You say: “What you are is PRIOR TO Consciousness.” And: “What you are sees Consciousness come and go.”

Since Consciousness (often capital ‘C’) is (from the Upanishads to Ramana) synonymous with Self, Oneness, Brahman, you effectively seem to imply that what we are is prior to Oneness!!

If you mean consciousness (usually with a small ‘c’) as in chidaabhaasa – reflected consciousness / mind / perceptions, then it might be less confusing to just use those sort of terms.

But anyway, that issue to one side, there is still a sense of duality in the way you describe the ‘see-er’ of what comes and goes.

In nonduality there is no witness or see-er of things coming and going, there is THIS! The be-ing and the see-ing are ONE!

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Randall Friend says:

Fenn,

It depends on what you mean by Consciousness. Consciousness is only a word, and is completely meaningless. As it is used in various nonduality writings, it has been used to point to many things.

Ramesh says – Consciousness is All. By this he means Consciousness is the Nondual Brahman. Nisargadatta, John Wheeler, just to name a couple, say that what you are is before Consciousness, that Consciousness is the movement of awareness, objects appearing within awareness. This Consciousness is seen as a “state” which comes and goes – hence the word Conscious – ness… consciousness is present now, later it will be gone – yet what you are remains to know the passing of consciousness.

Some, like Gilbert, have used Cosmic Consciousness – seemingly to indicate that Consciousness is both the waking state and the deep dreamless state, the unchanging ground within which both states come and go.

All are correct – it depends on the question. All depend on words which are useless and dualistic. There can be no accurate pulling together of references to Consciousness – Nisargadatta has said that Consciousness is ALL and he has said that Consciousness comes and goes.

In reality, Consciousness is no different than Awareness, not something separate from Awareness. We might say that Consciousness is Awareness in movement, being aware of itself.

The point is this – objects arise – where is the line drawn between ME and the world? Where is the separating line? Is it at the body? Doesn’t the body appear? So “body” is part of the world, yes? Therefore “I” isn’t body.

Don’t the thoughts, emotions, senses, role in life (father, mother, son, employee, friend), memories, imagination – doesn’t everything else we’ve identified with, appear to “I”?

Therefore, the dividing line between “I” and world must be moved – the existence of “I” is obvious yet it is placed on many things that it isn’t – “I” cannot be an object, else there would need to be another “I” to be aware of it.

This is totally dualistic – yet it is the basis of neti-neti. Find out what you are not, to find out what you ARE.

The “I” is none of these things, in actual experience. “I” is simply consciousness – being conscious – that’s it. No object can be found that is “I”.

Yet this Consciousness contains the body and all it’s manifestations. The Consciousness contains that chair, the room, the moon and stars and sun. Even the idea of the Universe cannot BE without this Consciousness. Therefore all appears IN Consciousness. And that dividing line cannot be found, after all.

Yet this very Consciousness, in which the world appears, comes and goes. This is evident in sleep. So what you are remains to witness the passing of this Consciousness. What witnesses it? What remains to report on it’s passing? What remains to say “I slept”?

If I asked, were you Conscious in sleep, you will say – NO. The awareness necessary to know this unconsciousness remained to know the unconsciousness.

But this is still a dividing line, isn’t it? It is now a divider between Consciousness and Awareness. Consciousness, which contains the world, which comes and goes, and Awareness, which remained as the ground for even Consciousness to appear and disappear.

This is why it is said that Consciousness is a movement of Awareness. It is only divided in concept, only used to point to what seems to be going on, to point out the actuality of witnessing. Once seen, even Consciousness and Awareness fall away as only ever more Concept.

Vedanta calls this “I” – Atma. Atma is the pure “I” without the identified objects of body, mind, thought, memory, emotion, etc. Yet in seeing that Atma-”I” is none of these things, Atma-”I” is known to be no different, not separate from Brahman – the Nondual Reality.

Does this answer your question?

love
randall

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Stephen Met says:

Great posts Randall.

Thanks

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Fenn says:

Thanks Randall.

My understanding is that the way Nisargadatta uses the word consciousness is closer to what we call mind / personal consciousness / perception. Some scholars believe that Nisargadatta did not intend to deviate from the Upanishads and that the different usage of terms may have come about during the translation from Marathi to English.

But I don’t want to get into a debate about that. One thing I feel for certain is that Nisargadatta did not intend to start a new type of vocabulary that would create more conceptual separation. This can be borne out by his ‘star’ pupils; Ramesh Balsekar and Bob Adamson who’s own expressions keep the conventional meanings intact.

This Consciousness / Awareness is not so much the witness of states, but the actuality, the ‘substance’ of states.

First instant – no separation! Ever-present, self-shining… non-conceptual THIS!!!

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Randall Friend says:

Fenn,

Yes, my friend. Consciousness is the contact – what we call “mind” – awareness of objects. This “state” comes and goes. To what does it come and go?

We might say – Consciousness is awareness in which objects appear. Pure awareness is awareness in which no objects appear, even the “state” called “consciousness”. This transcends all “states” – it is called the fourth “state” – the “stateless state”. Some call it “turiya”. But who cares what it’s called? Who cares about Consciousness or Awareness? Are these words present in direct experience? Do they correctly categorize what is presently going on, in direct experience?

Can you find the location from where you are seeing? Can you place it somewhere? Can you assign it to any one sense? Don’t the senses appear IN the seeing?

The world, body, thoughts – all sensations and perceptions – appear TO YOU. Recognizing this, there is no longer identification with any of it. But this is only a transitional recognition – still duality.

What is actual experience, right here and now? When awareness or consciousness and the objective content of awareness/consciousness is no longer seen as separate, what remains to debate? There MUST be some concept standing in the way, some assumption – what is that assumption?

Stick with the obviousness and certainty of “I AM”-ness. How is that so certain? What is it that doesn’t require any concept – even a concept of awareness or consciousness? How did this certainty of existence get wrapped up with the object body-mind. This is the exact point of inquiry. Stay there and discard all ideas.

love
randall

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Kimo (Jim) says:

The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Fully present now.
It is not that non-conceptual awareness appears after reading a 200page book or listening to a 30min MP3. Non-conceptual awareness is already present and beyond all understanding (all mind projections, no matter how sacred or academic sounding appear within non-conceptual awareness). Who you are has nothing to do with understanding every Vedanta concept and melding the conceptual relationships of little C consciousness and awareness. Understanding more and more concepts is irrelevant to your being/true nature which is fully manifest now. The “laughter” that comes from the end of a supposed search does not arise from a sense of accomplishment in finally understanding all of these sacred comments; it comes from knowing what was always present DESPITE this acquired sacred knowledge we thought that we needed and previous concepts we took to be what we are. All it takes is a quick look into this. If you claim it takes more, or some laborious understanding, then you are a guru or a book salesman.

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Randall Friend says:

Brilliantly said, Kimo.

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Randall Friend says:

Josef,

Very nice, my friend. Well put!

“This Being simply is life. There is no seperation. Presence is. This Presence is life. I have to think in order to make any distinction.”

Yet “thinking” isn’t being done by “I” – “I” IS AWARE of thinking, what we “call” thinking. “Thinking” simply appears… That movement or pattern cannot be removed in any way from the “awareness” in which it appears.

“I can only come to the conclusion as I said above: There is apparanly a constant change between consciousness, not conscious of itself (the so called “deep sleep”), and consciousness, being conscious of itself (the waking state).”

Yes. Direct experience.

Josef – as you’re seeing, what we took to be reality was overlaid in concept – the concept of ME was there, then the concept of “I am sleeping” arose from that root assumption. You’re seeing that no one sleeps – sleep is a conceptualization of this coming and going of “identified consciousness” or as you say “consciousness, conscious of itself”.

THAT, which remains aware of this transitory “beingness” is YOU – yet YOU are not personal. YOU are the One Essence, Life, experiencing itself AS these states yet transcending ALL states. The “states” can never be outside of or other than.

THIS is it – this presence/awareness which is obviously everything. Advaita is HERE and NOW.

Now tell me, who is the one to whom this is clear?

love to you, my friend
randall

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Charlie Hayes says:

reading some of these judging posts, hmmmmm
much ado about no thing
thanks Randall, Gilbert, Areti.
as Muktananda put it,
“So, let the dogs bark. It’s what they do.”
Hakuna Matata

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Josef says:

Randall,

thanks for the quick answer! Love to you too!

Yes, you are right, thinking is only happening, there is no “I” which is thinking, no entity which could controll it. Yes, no seperation between the thinking and life. Thinking appears and disappears in Life. A body arises and parallel thinking arises. This leeds to the misconception that thinking is “produced” in the brain of the body. The truth is that a body appears and if simultaneously thoughts appear this leads to the misconception mentioned above. Thoughts are not more connected to the body than the computer screen in front of me. More precisely, nothing can be connected to anything else becaurs there are no parts. There is only one thing called life.

This presence/awareness NOW in the “waking state” is realy everthing, no seperaton.

And if “I” go to bed soon this presence will dissolve into nothing! Never the less “I” won´t stop to exist. There will be pure existence, not conscious of itself.

But there really can´t be said anything about this “state” in my opinion.

I will never really know what I am really, because I can´t look at myself. Because I am IT. How could I know me if I am it. It is not possible. There would have to be something else than me in order to perceive it. And this is not the case.

Thats why “I” really can´t answer your question: “Who is the one to whome this is clear?”

I don´t know really. The only thing that I can say for sure is that seperation does not exist. That no Josef exists.

But what am I? I can only say that I am not a person. I am Life, and I am also the absence of life.

And it is also wrong to say that the “deep sleep state” (consciousness not conscious of itself) is somehow a higher state than this being, this presence, this “I am ness” in the wakeful state. These states are to sides of a medal. They are one.

It is really a mystery. Seperation is a illusion. But I can´t say who I am. Perhaps I could say: If there is manifestation, I am the whole manifestation, whithout seperation. And if there is no manifestation, I am nothing. What is this nothing? I don´t know. And I won´t ever no this. It is a mystery.

It seems that “I” don´t only die at the end of my “life”. The person “josef” dies every night when he goes to bed and is being born again in the morning.

And as “I” remain in the so called “deep sleep state” I will also remain after the so called death. But I can´t answer what this it. Becaue I can´t perceive myself. Never the less I am that which remains.

Does that make sense?

Warm regards

Josef

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Morgan says:

All trying to describe what we’re talking about is “pissing up a rope”. The idea that what one is is a linguistic construct is easily disprovable. When any ideas of identity are absent, what is still present? Do we need anything? Are we flailing for answers? Only in thought. In reality the present moment is perfect and complete. This is what Bob was pointing to when he said “If you’re not thinking, what’s wrong with right now?” Thanks Randall for the “cool” response. Love and shit.

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Randall Friend says:

Ha! I was serious about the weather in Asheville. Must be nice about now…

Pissing up a rope – that’s funny shit.

love and shit back, my friend… warm waves of light and all that nonsense.

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gilbert. says:

One Life Essence expresses itself through every particle of this Universe.
The singular Essence is the intelligence of every ‘action’.
Hanging onto even one belief will distort the view but you can’t even choose to drop one belief let alone a thousand.
‘You’ think that they are ‘your thoughts’. Argument can in some cases ‘clear the air’ and a moment of clarity may arise out of nowhere.
It is all intelligence expressing itself.
In the appearance of things, ‘we’ live with a paradox.
‘Man’ has developed the ‘machinery’ to destroy himself and his surroundings.
Religious belief can swing into madness and hysteria. A small group of radicals can wreck havoc throughout the world communities. ‘You’ cannot rely on group mentality or mass behavior.
The closer ‘you’ can get to the core intelligence that you are, the more the erroneous beliefs fall away, naturally.
You love to be.
Reaching for some higher ‘state’ of being is delusional and it is ignoring present evidence.
In the consciousness it is a play of the elements.
What are your basic needs?
Water, food, warmth and shelter.
‘You’ and ‘we’ as human beings think we are so important.
But given a certain set of circumstances, ‘people’ turn upon each other and in the madness that ensues, the group may destroy the ‘one’ who could help them all to survive their own madness.
Who is going to trust some stuck up ‘holy’ fucked up guru to ‘act’ with intelligence on their behalf?
We are ALL equal.
There is no separation.
The concept of separation brings disease in being – and disease, when it hangs around long enough, brings madness.
The religious zealots and the power hungry ones are cancerous growth. They parade as the chosen few, special individuals. They are self-centered activity.
It is all much ado about nothing – but such statements don’t seem to help much – do they?
But remember, when some religious ‘nut case’ has poisoned the water supply – that body of yours in going to need to drink clean water and for every drop of available water, there will be a hundred souls trying to get to it.
‘We’ think we are so important, but this planet isn’t going anywhere. It can get along well enough without mankind.
No mantra is going to save anyone.
If there is ‘Self’ then it is Love – it is Love of Being.
You love to be.
Expand that loving to be and let it be all inclusive. The self centered activities and the madness of the world is the ’cause’ of modern world chaos. Economic Growth cannot go on without a ‘supply’. When ‘money’ loses its ‘back up’, the economy turns on itself.
Now these words here are only words. Whatever they may mean to you, the substance is filled in by your own ‘experience’. Be intelligent.
Think about it for a few minutes. All this Non Duality ‘philosophizing’ – what good is it?
If the water supply is gone. Where will your philosophy help you then?
If the internet is destroyed. What will you do?
If you think that ‘you’ think – take a moment to observe your ‘own thinking’.
One Essence is doing everything – without a single exception.
But ‘You’ don’t trust it. Do you?
Why not?

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Josef says:

Thanks very much Randall! Thanks for the time you spend for the comments!

If doubts arise, I´ll bother you

I´ll go to bed now. In Germany its 02:12 am. Good night!

Warm regards

Josef

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Kimo (Jim) says:

Really great expressions these past few days! However, I think it’s important to remind everyone once in awhile that there’s really NO-THING to talk about here. Awareness doesn’t require an interpretation to be. As brilliant as someone like a Randall or a John Wheeler can be, their writings are arguably most enjoyable while reading without seeking. Beautiful expressions are written and are enjoyed simply because they are beautiful expressions and not because they contain an ultimate truth. YOU ARE the ultimate truth–and never to be found in a book, MP3, or post-it note.

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Robin says:

My head is actually spinning from reading these comments as of late…

I’m going back to the simplicity of…”be conscious of being this consciousness”!

That’s enough.

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Morgan says:

Obviously, it’s not a problem – as long as we see that it’s just oneness in action. Randall – it is nice and rainy here now. Hey, if you ever get over this way, write me and let’s visit.

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Randall Friend says:

Kimo,

Once again, there is no disagreement with what you’re saying. Not sure why you’re looking to pick a fight – I believe most of the comments coming here point to the exact same point. If you need it, I can certainly give you a big cuddle. However there will be no swapping of spit, my friend.

Is Life aware? What is it aware of? Itself. What else is there? So awareness remains as an unnecessary adjective to pure Being. Is there unaware Being? No. So the qualification of Aware Being can only imply Being that is unaware. This is false. Being IS Awareness (Sat/Chit) – they are the same “thing” – the same “no-thing”. Being IS Knowing. They are inseparable, yet if that awareness is attached to, then it implies duality. So if we really want to be direct, then Awareness is another concept. Being remains without the possibility of other. And even Being or One can be implied to be dualistic.

Therefore, all words and knowledge fall away as absolutely meaningless. No word, not even Awareness, can quantify or describe what-you-are. In fact it is this pure mystery, this not-knowing, that IS Love, Oneness. And as you say – THAT is evident in this very moment – present AS what we “think of” AS Awareness.

It has nothing to do with aluminum wheels, although if they spin, it really looks cool.

love to all things, AND Kimo
randall

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Issac Newton says:

“I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, in diverting myself, in now and then, finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me”. – Issac Newton.

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sleepless in L.A. says:

Back to this site after being away a couple weeks. What’s all this personality stuff, particularly to do with Gilbert? Everyone has a personality. There would not be an UGC without Gilbert’s personality. My personality resonates most particularly with Gilbert’s method of relaying the message. So an insult to him is an insult to me (personalitywise only, though). Although these attacks on peronsalities are somewhat amusing at times, appreciate staying with the message on this board, regardless of the messenger. The constant reminder of the message, delivered here in so many different ways. is terrific. Thanks so much! One of these days, if I read here much longer, I may not be compelled to return. Wouldn’t that be a compliment to all concerned!

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Kimo (Jim) says:

There is NO-ONE who has made the journey of “going beyond the appearance”.
“We” seemingly go through years of seeking and note quite easily what resonates and what does not. Bob’s words resonate. The words of this one do not. We try to grasp a Gilbert, a Kimo, or a Randall in a conceptual sense and we come up with absolutely nothing enduring even though in thought patterns we may believe we have “pegged this so-called person”. The concept of a person, the bodies we call our own, the thoughts we call our own have no ownership of life/being/awareness (choose your pointer). These patterns that we either revere or denigrate have absolutely no permanent nature and contain 0% being but whose appearance is TOTALLY dependent on that being. Much like clouds in the sky are Gilbert, Bob, Kimo, and Randall. These clouds may seemingly appear and take shape, but as soon as we try to grasp and define them we can’t grab anything because there is only the sky. Smug understanding, flailing understanding, well-worded understanding…all belong to no-one. There’s only one Being illuminating all of these patterns whether it’s understood or not (or mocked or not by a seeming know-it-all).

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Kimo (Jim) says:

Well, it’s a good thing I’m not a monkey or a student on the verge of enlightenment, but the noise registers quite well Sir.

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gilbert says:

And there can never be anything called ‘in-direct cognition’.
That is the best news of all.

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Morgan says:

Randall, do you think it could be said that “There is no-thing” and that everything that we think of as an object is an appearance of this no-thing with absolutely no independent existence apart from no-thing. Therefore, everything is no-thing, no-thing is everything.

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Morgan says:

There isn’t “a world” there is just this appearing as sensations which are then interperited as a world by thought. Everything that is seen, felt, thought or percieved in any way is this oneness and it is your presence that allows it to appear. You are the presence that is aware of an apparent world so you can’t leave it, no matter where it seems you are. There is no need to “remain in I-AM-ness”, it is your being that allows “the world” and feelings of doubt to appear. You cannot leave this. You are it. What you are has never been and will never be lost to you. Appearances come and go but what is remains.

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Robin says:

OK…Is my continued and seemingly non-stop coming to this website an ADDICTION or RESONANCE!?

Just had to throw that out there…

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Kimo (Jim) says:

Why do you need to be told if you have an Addiction or a Resonance?
In the duality of concepts and relativity who is in the best position to answer this?
More importantly “who” (given that you currently believe in yourself as an entity) is in the best position to carry out an investigation? Do you think there is a Randall who can show you your true nature while you sit passively waiting to be fed the truth without looking yourself?
We hold concepts so so so sacred. What am I? Tell me in words. What is the meaning of what Randall just wrote? Tell me in words….Even if we hear those words, we’re left unsatisfied unless those words lead to a simultaneous looking.
Others defend the words vehemently–I need these words! Without the words I don’t have a thorn to remove my thorn…Others find words so sacred that they will attempt to use them as a venom but the noise only registers and has no true meaning…You are a monkey…You have a goose growing that is too big for your tiny bottle…You are too dense to understand poetry or verse….
Okay, but enough words have been seen to realize they are only words, only noises, only vibrations. You are there prior to any of these vibrations, noises, words, meanings to words, meaningful words that lead to “I am”, meaningful add-on words to “I am” that cause suffering.
The fact of the registering or the experiencing can’t be denied. WHAT is translated as WHAT I EXPERIENCED or WHAT THE EXPERIENCE MEANS OR IS comes far downstream of what I already am as that absolute presence that registers all things and depends on my presence to appear in the first place and later be conceptualized and lead to miserable questions on a website.

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Randall Friend says:

“Randall, do you think it could be said that “There is no-thing” and that everything that we think of as an object is an appearance of this no-thing with absolutely no independent existence apart from no-thing. Therefore, everything is no-thing, no-thing is everything.”

Morgan,

It can be said a million ways, and none are correct. All is pointing to what is inherently ineffable, indescribable, yet inseparable. No-thing is another expression – it depends on the perspective. As no-thing, you are the pure invisible witness of the world, not touched by the world, not involved, pure awareness. As everything, you ARE the world. Nowhere can you look and not see your very own Self. And this is Love in action. Love manifest.

Both are true and false. But it doesn’t need to be figured out. That’s just more mental translation. The direction is simplicity – not complexity. When all complexity falls away, we’re left with One (without a second). Yet the mind can never get there. And it doesn’t need to.

THIS is already perfect.

love
randall

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Kimo (Jim) says:

Hi, I didn’t intend that you think your crap doesn’t stink–it doesn’t apply to anyone. That’s the whole trouble with words. They never make sense and they never apply to a separate entity anyway. I spent two-and-a-half weeks with folks I really care about, surfing, and spending evenings walking along the beach listening to the waves crash against the rocks, feeling the wind, and watching the fish swim and crabs scurry about. It seems there’s no problem with a me in nature. It’s beautiful and all registers peacefully and spontaneously. We never think a separate entity is in a fish or a crab (although deeply identified consciousness may project an entity even on a crab and say “I’m scared of the water because “he” may try to bite “me”). But is it as easy when we come back ashore and “deal with people”? One seems smug and righteous all the time. The other is a great teacher and has a new book, but yet curses the non-duality police. But are any of these formations or patterns, beyond the value we give them as friends and humans, any different from the nature of that crab? Most of us have no trouble seeing the spontaneity moving that crab and lack of independent entity in that crab, but we fail to see the same in people and ourselves even though it’s exactly the same.

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milton says:

You’re right Kimo, no difference whatsoever. Miracles are happening here all the time yet some may only see conceptual brinkmanship…amazing. Here, there , and everywhere we find “a sense sublime”
Of something far more deeply interfused,
Whose dwelling is the light of setting suns,
And the round ocean and the living air,
And the blue sky, and in the mind of man;
A motion and a spirit, that impels
All thinking things, all objects of all thought,
And rolls through all things.
Gilbert and Randall are using “skillful means” with clearly compassionate intent to dispel delusion. Why be crabby about that? Hey, you’ve been high on the pointer meter at times, maybe 80%, why not go for 100%?

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Robin says:

Ha! I couldn’t wait for Mr. (Gilbert) Gump to show up…
I’d like to stay Sir!
I’ve decided it’s definitely RESONANCE with this classroom.
Hope to see Milton in a seat!

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Mark Ellis says:

Yet the mind can never get there. And it doesn’t need to.

THIS is already perfect. R.F.

Phew~!

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gilbert says:

Just like zooming into a fractal pattern, the same pattern unfolds over and over.
It is joyous and entertaining, terrifying and so threatening, until one recognizes the basic pattern is unchanging.
No matter which way you turn, the same pattern is unfolding in billions of ‘ways’.
The pattern is all you know of. There is no quality of ‘knowing’ in the pattern itself.
The ‘apparent movement’ of the fractal pattern adds the animated quality.
One Essence animates every particle of the pattern without exception.
The activity of knowing is never enhanced or diminished by the ‘apparent’ movement of the pattern. No Thing appears as every thing.
The knowing itself remains unchanged by so-called ‘events’, it is clear and empty of all content.
Everything ‘appears’ in the seeing.
The natural wordless state of pure being is present in all – is all.
This clear and immaculate light of consciousness is the light by which you see and know.

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The Eternal State says:

“Gilbert” needs no acknowledgment, nor does “Randall” or any “other” who truly expresses Nonduality … there is no assumed “entity” trying to prove or disprove anything. Yet the “personality” appears and no one is there to alter or correct an expression … all happens by itself. It’s amazingly potent and whether profane or profound “something” comes through loud and clear … this “place” is a great gift … huge. Yet meaningless! Ha!

Keep ‘em coming, Not-Gilbert! Love ya!

It’s all OK in OKlahoma!

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Mark Ellis says:

Charlie,
So good to see your voice.
You were the very first non-person that I talked to about this and you nailed my shi* to the wall.

I listened, today, to the recording of our phone conversation (some months ago in 2008, I think), and the message was transferred impeccably.

The receiver, however, overlooked the obvious, because as Randall says, “We don’t want THIS to be it”. Becoming ((((STUFFED)))) with a lot more concepts has seemingly created just more confusion.

Nothing more than what you pointed to in that call, was and is Ever Needed.

Gratitude arises for the sharpness of your compassionate sword.

M.E.

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gilbert says:

Yesterday upon the stair, I saw a man that wasn’t there.
He wasn’t there again today.
Oh, how I wish he would go away.

- Anon….offered by Jim.

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The Eternal State says:

watching no-body
walk across the empty road
how very unique

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gilbert says:

Po-Chang Huai-Huan:
“The nature of the Absolute is void and yet not void.
How so?
The marvelous ‘substance’ of the Absolute, having neither form nor shape, is therefore un-discover-able, hence it is void.
Nevertheless, that immaterial, formless ‘substance’, contains functions as numerous as the sands of the Ganges, functions which respond unfailingly to circumstances, so it is also described as not void.” – end of quote.

In the pure function of knowing, there is no ‘entity’ – this is obviously so when thought is paused. What appears in that empty space-like awareness is ‘the appearance’, the activity of the energy, this display called the manifestation. See that the body is an appearance indistinguishable from any other appearance. In this way the belief in being separate is undermined and dispensed with. ‘The story of me’ loses its fascination and it takes its place along with the equality of all appearances.
This ‘non-event’ is marked by a sense of relief – an unnecessary burden is left ‘to the side of the road’.

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Randall Friend says:

Well, it’s been real, and it’s been fun. You know the rest…

The root of the message is – THIS is all there ever is. There is nothing outside of here and now. Nothing to get. Nothing to lose. Nowhere to go, no “states” to achieve, no enlightenment to “save” us.

THIS has no parts. It isn’t divided into a “you seeing” and a “world seen”. Not divided into a past, present and future. Not divided by “in here” and “out there”. These divisions can only come in mind, in conceptualization.

So THIS is One. One, without the possibility of a second. Advaita means not-two. That is a direct pointer to Immediate and Undeniable Reality, just THIS, as it is.

It is the belief in the separate ME that seemingly divides this. Yet no belief can actually divide – therefore separation is entirely a mental translation of THIS. A belief that the SEEING/KNOWING is being DONE BY a SEER/KNOWER, aware of an outside “thing”. It isn’t. All there ever is, is THIS.

So the direction of inquiry is the I AM – the certainty of Being. You know you ARE. That is the aroma – the fragrance to follow. That is the light glaring so obviously and continuously that it’s overlooked, ignored, in preference for the changing appearance – an appearance which can not BE without that illuminating light.

You are certain of your existence. This certainty is placed on objects which appear, which are impermanent, constantly changing. THAT which knows the appearance never ever changes, is undeniable yet ungraspable. It doesn’t need grasping. You ARE and you know you are. This is always enough. This is all that is necessary to know.

Find out how this certainty became uncertain, how it became obscured. See how this idea of separation creates the very idea of your own impermanence, your own finite existence. In reality, you are timeless and limitless Being, aware of itself in each moment, AS each moment.

love
randall

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Kimo (Jim) says:

The bubble floating in the stream was never anything but stream. Born (in appearance) of stream and powered by stream pauselessly. Even the thoughts of separation which we attribute to bubble as source are all stream. We think the bubble will have its say for 70 or 80 years and then forever be absorbed into the stream (while traditionalists believe the bubble will live forever in some “improved” (bubble bath heaven) or “tortured” (boiling water bubble) form). But the bubble never had its say because it was not the bubble that formed on its own and then later ceases to exist when “its time” runs out, rather it is the ever-present stream that bubbles and no longer bubbles. Totally impossible for any of those bubbles to separate from stream and achieve true independent self status at any time. Its (the bubble) literal ground of being is that air pocket caused by its watery shell connected to the entire stream at all times at its base. When the shell runs out of strength, the bubble doesn’t separate from stream, it disappears (pops), and we see again that there was only stream.

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gilbert says:

Love is giving.
The need for love is the ignoring of our own true nature.

Be warm towards yourself. “Be extremely friendly with that consciousness”(Nisargadatta).

It is all you have.

Sharing it openly is what is most refreshing.
Hiding it away behind a facade of fear is really quite a pathetic way to be.

Recognize that some reach out for contact. Do not ignore them because they are yourself.

“Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

It is better to love and lose than to not love at all….is another one…….

I see it all, it is all so obvious………there is no hiding place.
People think they hide their crap but it is written all over their face and body language.
What strange creatures we are when clear knowing is ignored and belief is our master.

Openness is a rare thing – but everyone is attracted to someone who is open.
Natural confidence in being open may take a little while to settle in – but it sure beats the hell out of scraping around for some sustenance in the confines of a cut off and limited false idea of who I think I am (twisted personality).

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Kimo (Jim) says:

We’re trained to take the description to be what we are: I am the body, I am my thoughts, I am my separate eternal soul created by God.
Later we take a guru’s description of what we are: you are not the body, you are not the thoughts, you are that awareness. And we KNOW that AWARE-BEINGNESS-EXISTENCE, but we subsequently ignore it and look for “better things” because we still believe in the descriptions. “Nisargadatta is someone who got it and is someone who is peaceful, Bob is someone who got and is someone who is peaceful, and I want to be that too”….I don’t….because there’s never a forgetting of that awareness and nothing that ever trumped it yet IN A LIFETIME.
You could sit in a stadium on center stage, surrounded by 1,000 of the best books on non-duality and Bob could be walking around stage with a microphone in his hand and accompanied by all of his best students. They could have every line and every word of those 1,000 spiritual books memorized and recite them perfectly on cue for the crowd’s uproarious cheer and even recycle them into better-to-understand verses. Then Bob could resurrect Jesus and Nisargadatta and then Bob, Jesus, and Nisargadatta could recite to the crowds delight how beautiful it is to be in natural state recognition and you would say “I want to be that too”…I still say “I don’t”….Because, no matter what happens, no matter what anyone says, no matter what religious experience, no matter what display of perfect peace is rendered, those are still just perceptions, experiences, and conceptual descriptions you will commit to memory and regurgitate tomorrow as “something you want to be or something you want to attain”. Have you forgotten so quickly my friend about that ordinary awareness? That luminosity of Being that is required as the GROUND for all of those experiences, labels, descriptions, concepts to even register?

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johny says:

The word Awareness is not it. The word Being comes closer, in my vocal bury easier to understand. It is without attributes, and is immediately available in the present moment. Infact it can only be recognised in the present moment, it stands before anything that arise in it. You are being, stay with it. You need nothing else, everything that arise in it cannot touch you.

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Lev says:

Nothing is happening!

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gilbert says:

Yep, More Bob is on the way and I agree about the ‘every word’ comment about Bob. Some of Charlie is already recorded. Foster and Parsons, no plans for any repeats at the moment. No ‘airy fairly’ stuff either. We have some surprises in store and some ‘new folk’ lined up – and all the men wear trousers and the women wear blue jeans or nice dresses.

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Morgan says:

It’s strange that there appears to be so much identification with thought. The glaring gaps in it’s stream go unnoticed, I guess because there’s no content to be aware of. That which is absolutely obvious is overlooked because it isn’t an object.

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dualdave says:

Hi Morgan,

I think you nailed it:

“The glaring gaps in it’s stream go unnoticed, I guess because there’s no content to be aware of”

Whats left in those gaps is no thing and ‘you’ can’t really put a finger on it, but is somehow undeniable.

It’s slowly dawning that that undeniable ‘no thing’ is what all this fuss is about, but that recognition hasn’t blown away this ‘me’ notion (yet).

It *seems* the common refrain is to abide as that until it becomes evident that it is impossible to not abide as that because that’s what ‘I’ have been the whole time.

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Morgan says:

Hey Dave. You are the wholeness that thoughts arise in. You are whom they occur to and you still are when they subside. This is the proof that thoughts aren’t who we really are. If we were a thought, there wouldn’t be any present awareness when they were absent. Thoughts come and go. Bodily and worldly impressions appear and disappear. What remains? That is who you are.

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Jeff says:

Gilbert asked for some feedback so here goes. The variety of the programs are great. The Nisargadatta tapes with sound issues and translations don’t do much for me. Written translations of his dialogues are much more powerful.

As someone else mentioned, I found John Greven very direct and helpful. I value simplicity in the message, where the mind can’t get actively involved and start asking questions and clarifications. Once that happens, I need to just let it go.

Sailor Bob is always very simple and clear. I find Mooji to be very clear and simple as well as Isaac Shapiro, Jac O’Keeffe. Those are the types that are of most value for me. They keep it very simple.

I truly enjoy reading everything you, Randall and someone like John Wheeler say but it is usually too complicated. It activates the mind and then I just need to let it go. What you are saying is not obvious, as shown by all the follow up questions. This appears to be the nature of pointing to non-duality. Those who realize it are exasperated trying to point it out to the rest!

Everyone resonates with different teachers, so I say keep the variety coming and thanks for all you, Randall and the others are doing.

The best answers are those that stop the mind, not engage it. That’s about the best I can convey from here.

You might be thinking, if the “simple” teachers were so clear, why haven’t I gotten it yet?” That would be a fair question. These teachers provide reference points I can quickly return to — that will calm the mind and show the illusion of “ME.”

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dualdave says:

Thanks Morgan.

That is a very clear description of what is obvious here.

I experienced a profound sense of unity in my early twenties (I’m 41 now) that kicked this search into high gear. That’s what has made the nondual ‘teachings’ so attractive because it was clear ‘they’ saw what ‘I’ saw.

The no-thing/presence-awareness/non-conceptual awareness that appears again and again in these teachings is evident and undeniable, yet impossible to pin down.

The recognition of the ever present gap, space or stillness *seems* to have little to do with the with the experience of ‘one-thing’ I saw and that seems to be at the root of so many of these teachings.

Sailor Bob and the folks who had their doubts cleared up by him have spoken of subtlety, and that clear open knowing is certainly subtle. I can’t help but go back to an earlier question I posted here about an ‘event’ and there is absolutely an expectation of an ‘event’.

The ‘event’ is certainly something that was pretty much directly described by Ramana and indirectly referenced by Nisargadatta.

In the interim (ha ha) ‘I’ will ‘abide as that’/'be concious of conciousness’/'look inward’ until it becomes apparent just how ridiculous these notions are.

Actually right now I think I will go for a walk and then grab a cheeseburger. I picked up a really cool bottle of hot sauce I can’t wait to try on that cheeseburger.

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gilbert says:

Note: If anyone wants to learn how to make dynamic podcasts, edit music and voice in an undetectable way – make Radio Programs that kick ass – and you have heaps of money, come to Australia and get some lessons.

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Morgan says:

I am.
If I was not, no experience could arrise.
The thought “I am” is not what I am.
I am that which is prior to thought, which is it’s precondition.
I have never been limited, no borders impinge on me.
In my clarity, impressions and thoughts arise.
Some of these thoughts pretend to describe me.
Other thoughts reference these images.
Being is never sullied by appearances.
Our nature is freedom, we only suffer in thought.
In reality, oneness is all that ever appears.
There isn’t anyone who “gets this” and “doesn’t get it”.
There is only this.
Thoughts of confusion and separation will pass and this will still be.
Thoughts couldn’t appear without this.

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Morgan says:

In appearance, it can seem that some pointers are more helpful than others. There’s nothing at all wrong with that. The crucial point of a pointer (!) is that it points directly at one’s being.

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Al says:

“Totally impossible for any of those bubbles to separate from stream and achieve true independent self status at any time. Its (the bubble) literal ground of being is that air pocket caused by its watery shell connected to the entire stream at all times at its base. When the shell runs out of strength, the bubble doesn’t separate from stream, it disappears (pops), and we see again that there was only stream.”

So death of a person (ending of a particular appearance) is the end of it?

Niz says “There is no compulsion [to be reborn]. You get what you want. You make your own plans and you carry them out. We grow through investigation, and to investigate we need experience. We tend to repeat what we have not understood.”

“It [death] is very much like sleep. For a time, the person is out of focus and then it returns. The person, being a creature of circumstances, necessarily changes along with them, like the flame that changes with the fuel. Only the process goes on and on, creating time and space.”

“The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the next birth. I do not say that the same person is reborn. It dies and dies for good. But its memories remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new person. The real takes no part in it, but makes it possible by giving it the light.”

Sounds like unless one sees their true nature in this life something of it continues still in the dream of separateness.

On the podcasts, all good. Would like to hear from others outside of the Nisargadatta ‘lineage’. For some contrast.

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gilbert says:

Phase Three of the Urban Guru Cafe, which may never happen, is the systematic exposure of various gurus and why their message does NOT work. Their ‘appointed’ devotees, who have the gurus seal of ‘now you are enlightened’ will also be exposed as just imitation of the guru. The problem is that it deviates from the direct message too much, or could do.
Various ‘people’ would get very upset and some ‘heavy’ shit would spill out all over the place. Also, why go sticking your head into a hornet’s nest?
In the past 9 years, I have made a lot of friends around the globe, friends I have never met ‘in person’. I have also ‘made’ a few ‘enemies’, it would seem, ones who can’t let go of some ‘challenge’ that was presented to them, through this pattern here. Some of those ‘enemies’ transformed into friends once it was recognized for what it was.
‘People’ can hang onto ‘shit’ for decades and they miss the ‘point’ of it all, over and over.
They are usually the ones who profess that it is all about Love….and that there is a process of purification necessary. The hanging onto ‘their own shit’ goes unnoticed. The biased view is attachment to a concept of ‘me’. Whatever it takes to free up that fixation is valid BUT they don’t want to let go of the ‘me’. They prefer to listen to their guru who feeds them with spiritual nonsense about some future time, when everything will be ‘good’.
I know full well (the knowing is) that that is a crappy story and is totally invalid. What is forever true, is right here right now. The question is, why is it ignored?
‘I’ as this appearance, can’t give anyone anything – that is understood.
For some there is a wonderful opportunity available through ‘the challenge’ of beliefs.
Gross beliefs are easy to catch a glimpse of – subtle beliefs often need to be stirred to the surface. This is no ‘picnic’. What is on offer is radically transformational.
The lotus blossoms on the surface of the pond. The sustenance of that subtle ‘fragrant’ expression is fed by the stinking muck at the bottom of the pond.
“Nirvana and Samsara are not two” – Buddha (awake).
You cannot ignore the shit, shit happens. It too is an expression of the One Essence.
Spiritual self-image is an illusion – one that is subtly fixated upon – the story of me.
There is no me, so why not see that and be done with the story once and for all.

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Mike in SF says:

Oh yea, I agree with Jeremy above, more from John Greven would be great.

I also like the idea of hearing from someone outside the Nisargadatta lineage although now that I think about it, I can’t come up with a specific recommendation. Haha.

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Kimo (Jim) says:

The seeker constantly talks himself out of awareness as anything significant. “There must be more…there must be an experience”. Even the guru sometimes says “Awareness falls short”… Falls short of what? The words in a book you’re trying to sell? Oh my! Another says “The student has passed the guru— in a left-handed compliment” Never could a three-dimensional gray haired object in fathomless awareness ever be taken as a guru to that awareness except in a state of utter confusion. These objects have no awareness. The aspirant has no trouble recognizing awareness but then projects and believes his projections–”Bob has awareness like me but in Bob’s awareness there is not only peace but incredibly liberating understanding”. PSSST! I have a secret for you…Bob doesn’t stand alone as any separate entity and certainly has no claim on awareness. The awareness mistakenly called “my awareness” round the globe is THE AWARENESS. The characters of Bob, Kimo, Gilbert seem three dimensional but they may as well be made of cardboard because those characters don’t do or own anything. Any wonderful thing said or any blah blah blah said only appears in this awareness I am. You’ve already conceptualized a character named Bob Adamson, you know what his body and face look like, you have an idea of how sacred he is and how his understanding must be….and you say I WANT TO BE LIKE THAT. No matter how complex or dreamy your imagination of Bob, he’s still just a reduced conceptual nugget or pebble hardly making a splash in that AWARE-BEINGNESS you are that registers all. Remember that awareness you keep dismissing as kid’s stuff or only for simpleton’s? It’s the answer!

But of course, you’ll file this one anyway as mere nonsense and try to tease your mind with more limericks and complicated descriptions of non-duality that conveniently keep you seemingly hid away and out of reach.

If you look at what I’m saying it will all fall into place. You’ll see that there is no freakin’ way that you could ever stand separate as a body or be successfully described as the combination of any attributes in the face of that self-shining, formless, being, awareness.

There’s only that immeasureable beingness that you already know and it’s registering all of these talking heads, experiences, feelings of “my body”, thoughts that you used to take as descriptions of yourself, laughter over the pompousness of those cardboard effigies who pump out their chests with the masters degree book knowledge of advaita. There is a gettingness but not a person who gets it because any person can only appear as a conceptual nugget in what you already are. More descriptions for more clarity…still only arising in that beingness. You’ve seen great major’s degree, earth shattering descriptions about what advaita says about what you are on the website, you’ve seen buttons linking to a donations page, but you’ll never see a button that links to what you are on this site. Just push away the computer and have a good meditation on what experience or perception or enlightenment feeling could possibly surpass your aware nature and then contemplate all of those ideas and images you have/had about yourself and see what they amount to in that awareness. Mere pebbles, less than pebbles….appearing in no-thing. (or loving presence if you can’t resist!)

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gilbert says:

Whatever appears IS awareness. Or Awareness appears as everything….without exception.
It just isn’t how it appears to be.
Whatever it takes, to ‘bring about’ the recognition of what is already being cognized in THIS immediacy is totally VALID.
No appearance can give anything to another appearance.
The appearance of body-mind is believed to be what I am, that the is common belief.
It is functional as an expression of the singular essence, which is not busy manifesting anything. All these ‘entities’ including this apparent one, are merely appearances.
There is only one awareness. What you are is THAT.
There are no others.
‘People’ say Everything is One.
NO.
Everything is the nature of the appearance, multiplicity.
One appears as everything.

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gilbert says:

Yes, and NO THING is HAPPENING.
Nothing other than No Thing is happening.
In the appearance a few words are energized by belief and an apparent ‘someone’ in the thinking ‘looks’ for something ‘other’ than ‘what is’. That pattern of ‘believed in words’ can’t SEE at all. Basically it is the ‘me’ and the me can’t see. That activity, like all activities is also the No Thing happening. Words can’t really unravel themselves. The belief in words simply falls away, leaving naked awareness. The expression continues as the appearance.
The oscillation between hope and despair is the nature of the ‘me’ – a pendulum swinging between the polar opposites in the mind. Never finding peace, it continues to be uneasy, vulnerable and insecure.
There is no one there – but if the belief is that there is someone there, then that someone is called ‘me’. The ‘me’ never arrives at any destination it aims for.
How could it? – it is just a description floating in empty space.

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Roger says:

yeah! and blah, blah, blah!!! and blahh, blahh, blahh, blahhh!!! blah!!! so there!

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