44. Gnosis – Timothy Freke – Part 2.
International best selling co-author of “The Jesus Mysteries”, Tim Freke, gives his views on Non Duality and integrating the sense of separation in this second part of a single interview. Some other books are “Lucid Living” and “The Laughing Jesus”.
Gnosticism is all about the simplicity of knowing, the naked, unadorned knowing that is present with you right now.
“So, understand the light – and make friends with it†– Hermes the Thrice-Greatest.
This program is bound to stimulate more comments and bring some new listeners and new material for contemplation.
This interview will be presented in three parts.
Here are three quotes from Nisargadatta that express the essence message in these programs:
“Be conscious of this consciousness – that is the only meditation one needs”.
“When I see that I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see that I am everything, that is love and my life moves between these two“.
and…………”I am THAT by which I know I AM“.
Timothy’s quirky website Click HERE.
Music includes: Elbows, Thomas Dybdhal, Starbuck, Cheb i Sebbah, The Pretenders, The Beatles, Wet Wet Wet, Vladivostock (Australian band) and The Traveling Wilbury’s. a short voice cut from Martin/Malloy (Aus)
This site is a non-profit free access site. No fees apply. Donations may be made through the small donation icon tab on the main page or on the bottom left side of the comment page, if one is moved to do so. These donations assist in supporting the on going presentation of this site – the clear and direct message re-appears in fresh programs that are contemporary and easy to listen to.
Welcome to Part Two. Part three will complete this interview in a week or so. We trust that you will enjoy it. Keep the comments flowing if you are so moved to do so.
Warm regards – Gilbert.
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Thanks Gilbert & Areti!
What a treat, there is no horizon.
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Areti, Gilbert -
Another wonderful gem. Keep up the pointing!
C
P.S. Areti, I love it when you laugh. It comes from a beautiful place inside you and makes me smile.
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Not to lift your skirt up too high and gawk at your knickers, Gilbert… But how do you do these interviews?
I’m guessing Areti stays in the homeland and Tim was in the UK for this. Do you send audio gear to the interviewee to pick up clean recordings of the conversation, or is Areti actually trotting the globe? It sounds like they’re in the same room.
Fully understand if this should remain an ancient Chinese secret…
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There is nothing worn under the Kilt, it is all in perfectly good, working order.
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In my opinion your work of ‘direct pointers’ caters more to advanced seekers (seekers who have been in this game for a very long time). So if you are looking for new ideas how about this :
- Meet the seeker where they are is a great place to start. This will, I think, attract more seekers to the UGC.
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It kinda sounded like you might be thinking about taking UGC on the road…? Gilbert, you’re more than welcome to crash on my couch. All I ask is no wet towels left around the flat.
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Thanks for the offer, you can crash on my wet towels anytime you like.
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I wouldn’t mind hearing Areti interview Jean Pierre Gomez, and Peter Francis Dziuban. Ken Wilber would be interesting. He gives some great pointers at times, other times he gets very complex and I wonder if I can’t stay focused on what he’s saying because he’s too smart, or because he’s barking up the wrong tree. One minute he’s talking about nonduality, the next minute it’s about psychology, evolving through stages, and reincarnation.
And Wheeler again of course. Although the interviews with him already existing here on the UGC are very thorough and well done.
Also, maybe Areti could create an email account specifically for listeners of the show to send questions to that could be used for future interviews. I liked how she seemed to be reading questions from listeners during the Wheeler episodes.
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There is an email address for the Urban Guru Cafe. Details are in the contact link, strangely enough.
Since my comments cause so much distress for some, I will cease from writing so often.
Thanks to those who appreciate this site and use it. – Gilbert.
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I enjoyed this MP3 but thought it was soft in the pointing department. The Freke Part 1 MP3 got interesting after about 20 minutes when he discussed noticing that awareness is behind/behind/behind every perception and you can never objectify yourself. Conversely, Freke Part 2 seemed to be mostly an enjoyable discussion with a likeable fellow and not much more. Anyway, I would definitely have a beer with Freke , Gilbert, Charlie, or that Gee You Are You Jean-Pierre fellow who had his slogan stolen. Great pointing isn’t everything. That pristine light shines without a twinkle or hiccup no matter what appears.
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yes- the “pointer” religion. i have been listening to the urban guru cafe for a year or so now, and what you say friar tuck makes sense to me. the mind has become fixated on something called a “pointer” in the same way that it gets fixated on anything else, like sex or an ideology. mindlessly repeating the same pointers (and all pointers are pretty much the same, just reworded) is not going to end suffering. it may give the *illusion* of ending suffering, and i think that’s where some of these so-called teachers are stuck. they claim to have ended suffering through pointers but actually, if they were honest, they are still unhappy people.
yes, as i write this i see it so clearly – a pointer is a MANTRA. this site has become a mantra zone. john wheeler and sailor bob produce the mantras, and their followers blindly repeat them as if they held some sort of “truth”. no offence to anyone – this is just how i see it.
taken the RIGHT way, yes, the mantra-pointer is obviously pointing to something that’s true and real and not just a concept.
BUT i feel what’s happened on this site – and others – is that we are getting stuck on the pointers and forgetting that they are just pointers.
OMG this is so funny. the POINTER RELIGION!! Can I copyright that?
****POINTERISM!***** LOL!!!!!
Having said all of that, there is some good content on this site, and some authentic sharings that go way beyond just pointerism. I won’t name names but some of the guys on this site who’ve been interviewed come across as very closed and contracted, almost fanatical and angrily religious in their expression. That is always a sign that pointerism has taken hold.
However, all the same I would like to thank all at UGC for their effort but for this body mind entity it’s time to move on and find some real authentic expression that is free from pointerism. I guess UGC was useful in this regard – to find out what is NOT true.
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Thank you for this entertaining podcast! It all sounds like a life-embracing philosophy to me. I hope in part three Tim will go into the nitty-gritty of “being Concious of being concious” as he explains in part 1. and into philosophical implications of this Subject (Conciousness) that’s aware of a subject (conciousness) wich is aware of objects. I wonder if he could explain how conciousness, wich is a capacity, receptivity , a no-thing is experienced in Conciousness. How is this capacity to be aware experienced in Conciousness if not as an object?
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Everything appears in the immediacy…and that is undeniable!
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All the pointers on this site are there for assistance for someone who has never ‘looked’ before. The pointers loosen things up…some pointers appeal and others do not.
The pointer, like a sign reading “Rome”, is only a pointer. To assume that people keep looking and looking and looking at the sign thinking that the sign is IT…is just an assumption.
This site points to the knowing only and makes no magnificent claims about anything else.
Tim’s next book which I think will be entitled “How Long Is Now” will be facinating. This, at least for me, is what it is all about.
Now, or the immediacy, has no duration… yet lo and behold…here it is!….containing All…time, space, continuity, form, shape, characteristics etc.
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Oh dear. If you feel the need to defend your point of view so rigorously you are missing the point entirely. The back and forth “I am more non-dual than you” crap could go on forever.
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Many thanks for this podcast Gilbert and all at UGC, many helpful pointers to this true nature. As listening to the podcast and others on the site, poetry emerged from the seeing, which I may share now with you .
PRESENCE-AWARENESS
Gone ‘beyond the mind’ to see what is True and what not changes
I leave behind gurus, teachers and their practisces
Leaving nothing to do and nowhere to go, except:
Breathing, breathing, thoughts coming and going,
Everything happening as it should in this SEEING
Returning home to this Presence-Awareness
That we never left, that never left us.
I have nothing left to look for, nothing left to say.
Suddenly it is clear:
ALWAYS PRESENT. NEVER NOT HERE. THIS IS MY HOME.
For years I searched in the world of time for the Answer
And never “found” anything but concepts and ideas.
Keeping true to the truth expressed by Sailor Bob and John Wheeler
Everything now falls into place and there is PEACE beyond words.
Namaste to all and thankyou for UGC and this clarity of message.
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I prefer the direct pointers of Gilbert, Bob, etc. – UGC is a great source and hopefully Gilbert will comment more often again and ignore the distress of some. The response of distress is a good sign – something get stirred up.
Very gratefully,
B.
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Tuck, I don’t think that anyone has promised that life will fit some image of perfection when one knows oneself as awareness. Anything can appear. What gets seen through is the “me” that wants it to be different than it is. Pain, sorrow, happiness, joy are all necessary for appearance to appear. Contrast. No contrast – no experience. When everything is embraced (love) then there can be peace with whatever arises, even struggle. If looking at things this way doesn’t work for you, that’s fine. It doesn’t matter. No person has ever chosen anything, it’s just energy manifesting.
I agree with you that, as a philosophy, adviata is no better than any other. But to see that “the mind” and “body” come and go while that which is aware of them doesn’t is a direct perception that doesn’t depend on the acceptance of any philosophical system. In this experience, there are thought patterns that arise that seem to belong to “me”. They arise and, invariably, pass. That which is always present is what is being pointed at. Love.
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The belly of the mind is never full
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Yes, thar’s life in these comment pages yet! I know some complain and say the MP3s are all they want and the banter is useless, but I beg to differ. Good posts by all, even Friar Tuck. I love pointers and I never saw those ones before by James or Sartre; so thank you for sharing. None of this has to do with being an ostrich and burying our heads in the sand as “non-entities” shielded from life in a “there is no me religion”. In my case, I just had a strong desire to know what was what and Sailor Bob’s stuff resonated big time. I didn’t care if it was a hard pill to swallow or an easy pill to swallow. What would it hurt to investigate a little? If you’re on this planet, why not figure out what makes things tick? What else is there to do except hide as an ostrich in this world pretending to be a person? Ah, turned the tables there, eh? Everything comes and goes, but that aware presence never budges. It miraculously cradles it all; which never ceases to amaze “me”. Yes, there’s still a social component where the body and mind do their thing. If ‘you’ weren’t a punk before the investigation, you probably won’t be after either. If somebody gets in your face, you might still put them on their back. Only difference is, you may help them up afterward or even offer a handshake or a drink.
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Note: We had approximately 19,000 visits to the site in May. Approximately 17.500 in June. That is quite a selling point for advertising on the site…BUT we reject the idea just so the site remains clean. Apart from some trash that appears in the comment pages, this site is clean. We deleted the small inappropriate mystery adds that were appearing on the comment pages a couple of weeks ago. Cheers – G.
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In the instant that you see that any current disturbance in the thought patterns is mechanical by nature and that it is just an appearance, means that the seeing is clearly from ‘outside’ of identified consciousness. No one can give it to you. It does not come about by any process of becoming. It is pure being – with what is.
As Tim says, it is a mystery. Yet it is this pure knowing, right now. That is not owned by any ‘person’. To argue about this is really very very silly. How many pointers do we need?
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I wonder if I’ll still be alive in 2050 when the folks in Khetwadi go crazy for repairing all of the old ‘Randall Friend from Kentucky talks’ recently discovered on the antiquated platform of MP3. And I can say, yeah I remember when we hardly listened to this sage who was alive and clear as a bell during the turn of the century but instead we were trying to splice together the squeaky sounds of some Nisarga-doodle guy from old cassette tapes.
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Now that’s funny!
But I do enjoy the old Nis tapes very much! I like it when he arcs up and wants to make a point through the translator because someone is not ‘getting it’…
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There have been several ‘comment makers’ who supply a false email address when they log their comments, over recent months.
There will be a policy of deleting any comments that have an obviously false email address.
If anyone has a problem with me, then email me and let me know what the problem is.
This site is due to an incentive that Areti and I instigated early last year. Areti and I do 98% of the work to organize the interviews, produce the programs and generally keep it going. Randall helps out with some technical stuff. That is the total team here. 45 programs produced in just over a year is not bad, as I see it. The programs are packed with direct pointing. I do not know of any other resource like this one. There is no bias here, although some say that there is a strong Bob influence. The fact is that Bob introduced many to their true nature and things flow from that. We have included others where ever we could find anyone speaking clearly, without overtones of exclusivity and without emphasis on methods etc.
This site is consistently about going beyond ‘personal limitations’ and beyond the small minded attitudes of the common consciousness. If these particular ones I am speaking of, cannot respect what this site is about, then they are not welcome to make comments. Simple as that. Everyone is free to listen to the programs of course.
Of course, these ‘individuals’ will now add their twopence worth.
One wonders why they even bother. I wonder why I bother sometimes.
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Hi UGC guys. Just thought I’d add my voice to the loud crowd! Thanks for the site Gilbert, much appreciated. I know all this back and fort “mind” stuff gets a little tiring. I understand why you say “One wonders why they even bother. I wonder why I bother sometimes.” Reminds me of something beautiful Jeff Foster said in his book which resonated:
@
“This will never be understood, and this will never be communicated, to anyone. I really don’t know why I bother writing anymore.
But the words come, as they always have. and perhaps these words, pitiful abstractions though they are, may help to “point” to something beyond themselves.
I don’t know. It’s not for me to worry about anymore.
There is only love (aka Presence-Awareness), only that has any meaning at all. All else is illusion.”
@
I spent years trying to “teach” this to people only to be disillusioned by it all – the message wont be heard until its heard. Until then we have wonderful people like you folks on UGC, Gilbert, Bob, John, and others like Tony Parsons, Annette Nibley, Jeff Foster, Randall Friend who all do it in a different way. Perhaps all these different expressions are necessary to crack the seeker; to hack away at the seeking mind from ALL sides. I DONT KNOW, that’s the point. Who knows what will finally kill the seeker? So here’s to cracking the seeker, HOWEVER it gets done!!!!! Looking forward to part 3 of TIm’s podcast too.
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Many, many thanks to Gilbert and Areti. I’ve not much encountered the generosity of which this site is a testimony. Who would dedicate themselves to make a high quality program like this??? Without asking money? and without some story of ‘what happened to me’ or without singing a lullaby to a man dying of thirst in the desert or a man who’s hair is on fire; “please sit down Sir, I will tell you some bedtimestories of how wonderfull you are”… No, thank ‘God’
But sometimes in the dung heap of crappy comments, there are a few sticky comments like :
” It does not nothing in the way of ending the separation/suffering–yet many people who are dealing with psychological distress are lured into this nonduality stuff with such promises.”- FT
” If anything the sense of separation is greater than ever, because now they reject the significance of everything, “- FT
“discovery of “no observer / there is only Seeing†is not actually a discovery at all–nothing has been discovered, nothing has been found. There is absolutely nothing there to cling to or even talk about. “- FT
Wich seem to me to be worth adressing. Maybe intelligence energy would be so generous to act in such a way. Thankfullness is how it expresses here.
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Each one speaks for himself. Each one may believe that he chooses his words. The instrument through which this intelligence ‘acts’ is formed by that intelligence.
There is no need for belief in anything that anyone says. Stay with whatever has a resonance for you. Words that simply send the mind off on a tangent and endless intellectualizing are not useful. We are talking about the mystery of your own being. The answer is not to be found in the mind, nor the body.
There is no separation. The sense of separation is a translation in the mind accompanied by a feeling of being separate. Nothing anything that anyone says will convince you about the nature of separation. You must SEE that it is the mind that divides through ‘naming’ things as separate ‘things’. If you cease thought for a moment, it is obvious that there is no separation anywhere. The historic belief in separation ‘hangs around’ so one may need to let the mind rest on nothing for awhile.
Belief in separation is belief. Belief is not the actual.
In the most direct and immediate nature of cognition itself, there is only One seeing, One knowing, One presence, One awareness. Thought is an appearance. Thought does not divide any of these ‘qualities’ of seeing, knowing, presence, awareness. The words ’seeing’, ‘knowing’, ‘presence’ and ‘awareness’ are simply different words to describe THAT, the living knowledge that ‘I am’. It is not personal. It is the fact of your own being, which cannot be negated.
Bob says it so simply, yet few seem to let it register cleanly: “The only fact that you can be absolutely certain of, is the fact of your own being.”
If you truly ponder the silent, wordless meaning of that sentence it can resolve all confusion. However, the restless nature of the mind will not usually allow this naked fact to reveal its potency.
When one comes to this ‘moment’, so to speak, language is no longer necessary and in fact language loses its meaning. One may be speechless. The poverty of language is obvious – yet the knowing, the gnosis is unmistakable.
At the heart of all religions, the infinite value of gnosis is expressed in some way through the texts. What ‘men’ do with the text via their ‘learning’ is most usually divergent and immediately steps away from pure knowing, into theories and beliefs.
Yet we all talk and share. Some ‘teachers’ point as clearly as they can at THAT and in some cases it appears to be pure intelligence in action.
Defining THAT is more or less impossible.
Even so, maybe a glimmer of understanding is present right now and although these inadequate words fail – the knowing is consciously HERE – there is no doubt in the knowing.
All doubt is, is a thought. You are not a thought. You are THAT ‘knowing’.
The confirmation of that does not come from the mind, it comes from the knowing – THAT, intelligence itself.
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Gilbert,
Well stated!
A Rumi quote:
The seeker said to himself, If I’d known the real meaning of this being with God,
how should I have gone searching for Him?
But that knowledge depended on this journeying:
“that knowing can’t be gained by THINKING,
no matter how precise.”
d
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A wise man once said the following:
why are people who are my equal claiming not to be my equal, and why are people who are not my equal claiming not to be my equal.
this is a serious koan to contemplate in the process of undoing oneself.
thank you,
kalio De phansigar, author of the Gospel of the Travelers (it).
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Thanks Gilbert, as clear as a bell without overtones!; I’ll re-read it a few times to let it sink in.
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Once upon a time …
I received an e-mail from the leela-foundation saying that Eli Jaxon Bear (pardon my french) had cancer. There was also an account of how this news was received by Eli. I don’t have the mail anymore, but the gist of it was that he had to really let this fact sink in, understandably, and realised that up to now he only had looked at the Life-side of this realisation, the positive Life-affirming side as opposed to the impermanence of life. Dead (the message of having this terminal illness) came as a shock for him, despite realisation of the Unborn !? Is this not also where Timothy Freke is coming from? Could it be that upon Awakening, Life seems to flow more easily and because of the enjoyment of that , the mesmerisation with the dream gains a new momentum.
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This is the underbelly I love most! Real good ego stuff, keep up the good work all of you.
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Keep writing on the site Gilbert. So what if you cause distress?
Great work,
Nick
Editor: If you imagine that I have a choice in this, you are wrong. Yes, writing happens and not always what I ‘personally’ would wish to write…….the fact that I get stuck into the story and push a lot of buttons for some folk stimulates a lot of flack. No sacred cows here. Evrything is up for questioning, including me. When I have a dozen of them going for the jugular and sending me very nasty emails, it does put me slightly off my breakfast some days – but hey…..it is all for the ‘good’. Ha. Who else is going to ruffle their feathers so well? I don’t lose any sleep over it.
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Ultimately one must see and know where ‘I am’ coming from?
Whether you realize it or not EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is an appearance in THAT.
Where are you SEEING from?
Use the mind to understand the mind.
Be conscious of this consciousness.
The most intimate realization is ‘pure gnosis’.
Theories about gnosis are useless or just pleasant sensations at best.
Getting caught up in the philosophy is just a mind game. It is highly entertaining for the mind of course. Tim is fairly clear about where he is coming from.
Who cares where he is coming from…….and he would probably agree………The point is where are you coming from?
Every program on this site is repeatedly ‘pointing’ to THAT.
The window dressing, all the talk around the message is just dressing.
Get the message. Find out what you ARE.
It may be the most difficult thing you ever ‘do’ or it may be the easiest thing you don’t ‘do’ – but until you re-discover your own true nature, then the mind will go on dividing and dividing THAT which can never be divided. The FACT of you own BEING.
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I studied Gnostic Texts many years ago. They are a rich source of exceptional ‘information’. Here is one extract that I found full of meaning:
“The Universal SEED contains everything in itself, potentially, in some such fashion as the grain of mustard seed contains ‘the whole’ simultaneously, in the minutest point – roots, stem, branches, leaves and the innumerable germs that come from the seeds of the plant, and which in their turn produce still other plants in manifold series……….
From such a ‘Seed’, which is everywhere and nowhere, and which treasures in its bosom everything that was, or is, or is to be, all things must come into manifestation in their ‘proper natures and cycles’………….
God said ‘Let there be light’ and there was light.
It is the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
‘Man’ both deriveth his principles from that Seed and is also enlightened by it.”
Recognition of our true nature is what is necessary. It does not mean that the universe is transformed into a higher order. It does appear that the ‘knowing’ is awakened and never goes away. The strangest thing is that this knowing is here right now, for everyone without a single exception. The story about how ‘I haven’t got it yet’ is really just an erroneous story…..it isn’t actually true. Belief is not the actual.
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Only a ‘me’ can be offended, be angry or take offense. The stirring up of things can bring many things to the surface and an opportunity to see the mechanics of it all.
It is, at the very lest, entertaining. The stats on the visits to the site always jump way up whenever some ‘hot stuff’ gets posted. As I have said before, the programs are the real meal. Of the hundreds who read these pages and there are hundreds, only a few actually join in. The comment pages are a bonus – and apart from deleting anything off the beam completely, it is a lot of fun for many. As soon as it is taken ‘personally’ it gets restrictive and convoluted – but who cares? No point in arguing with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level and then they beat you on experience. FYI: There is someone who deletes the inappropriate comments – it is not I.
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hi Gilbert
Thanks for the Tim Freke interviews, I really enjoyed his enthusiasm and down to earth humor. I’m glad he also shows his joy as he celebrates his family. The way he expresses things creatively is a breath of fresh air.
wish you well
Brian
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Thanks Brian, Yes, I think the open enthusiasm is welcome. And Tim just flows with the questions and gives a sense of genuine engagement with the mystery. He is pretty busy at present with his ’seminars’, ‘The magical mystery experience’, so he said he wouldn’t have any free time to partake in the comment pages.
The resistance that pops up regularly is just part of the scene.
Finding new ways to get it out there is down to those who are inspired to find ways. So, good on you Tim. Heretic, Prophet or just Tim the Tinkerman – I like it.
Warm regards – Gilbert.
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How rare, how incredibly rare to have stumbled upon this message. So clear and without any foothold for the mind, nor for the benefit of the so-called guru , nor for the so-called seeker. To keep on running in circles while arrived at THIS, here and now, is like being a beggar in paradise. What about those who never heared about this?; their lifes lived in relativity, being here is just a means for getting there. Never resting, never reaching just THIS. Do not make this a tragedy for their sake, FIND ! Finally FIND. Stop the search ! Who else will?
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Thought imagines divisions in that which cannot and never has been divided. Nothing has ever been “wrong”, it’s just that thought tells it’s story and says “This isn’t it, this isn’t it…” It has always been IT. Thought is also IT. “IT”, of course, isn’t an “it” at all but words CANNOT describe wholeness because every word indicates a “part”. Raw perception is an undivided whole. When there is no belief in separation, there doesn’t appear to be a problem (and, even then, there isn’t). NOTHING needs to be changed or shaped to fit some futile idea of perfection. Quite frankly, the flaws are what make “things” interesting. Just sayin’.
I’ve enjoyed these interviews with Tim. Thanks. Got “The Laughing Jesus” and looking forward to cracking it.
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I just listened to the first part of the Catherine Harding interview. Amazing stuff. There are lots of gems on this site.
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Oklahoma Charlie got inspired and called Bob Adamson – He has published that chat as his second podcast on his site. The sound quality is pretty good and Bob’s voice, although through a phone, oddly enough, may come across a bit clearer because of that. Good questions and extremely direct answers. Have a listen and thanks to Charlie for doing it.
Here is the link…..down load it or simply stream it.
http://charliehayes36.tripod.com/podcast02bob.mp3
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Thanks Gilbert for the link to the Charlie/Bob chat. That was Outstanding. Really, really great.
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If there is anyone here that is still having some trouble getting a taste of this or is experiencing the common mental anguish looping in the belief that you are an individual “self”, I would strongly recommend giving Charlie Hayes a call. Charlie has been around the block many times and knows all the little sidetracks and escape alleys. He’s a warm spirit with an articulate and sharp mind, and more than capable of dealing with the most difficult and stubborn egos. Just listening to some of the “hard ball” conversations on his web site may be enough.
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It’s good to see the UGC venturing forth into the rich waters beyond the closely guarded sea of the “Sailor Bob” armada. At this juncture in time, the clear and diverse expressions of nonduality are legion and expanding at a rate and direction that is difficult to track or keep pace.
And wish to add my thanks to the UGC team that has again produced an exceptional podcast series and enriched the community.
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The One Essence expresses and appears AS everything. It is hard to believe that every movement in every particle of this universe is THAT expressing itself in totally unique ways every micro second. But belief is not the actual. It is quite obvious that the ‘One Pattern’ that we call ‘the universe’ NEVER repeats itself exactly. In an ordinary sense, ‘Each moment of your day’ is different in infinite variations impossible to measure. If one could take a snap shot of the totality every microsecond, each snap shot would be different. Infinite patterns within patterns. From apparent solid matter through to the most subtle harmonic vibrations – It ALL is inclusive AS this singular expression – which we call Non Duality.
The KNOWING is unchanging and not of the pattern….yet the pattern is the knowing also.
Everything is contained in the SEEING.
Look at your body now, sense everything and SEE that the knowing IS inextricably one with this intimate instrument of cognition. Yet you cannot locate any center to this knowing. Wherever the attention moves the impression register instantly.
Upon WHAT do they register?
Gnosis is the foundation of all things. There is nothing outside of this knowing – it is everywhere and nowhere. One without a second. All inclusive.
The answer is NOT in the mind.
Seeking it with a concept always fails. It is non-conceptual.
What can ‘the mind of habit’ make out of that? Another concept?
Cease thinking for a moment and SEE.
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“Only a ‘me’ can be offended, be angry or take offense.”
So you were so offended with my obsevation of the similarities between the money making Freke and Tolle that you deleted my post and question? I guess your ‘me’ took offense, eh.
“No point in arguing with an idiot.”
ALWAYS got to get that insult in there too, don’t you. Speaks volumes. Is that Consciousness speaking or your angry ‘me’? I guess this is a ‘praise the guru’ board only. What a hoot!
Freke was fun, now interview Tolle , Gangaji, Andrew Cohen and other “pay to play” jokers. Writing clear pointers doesn’t mean one is clear of ego, does it?
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Oh dear, another dissatisfied customer. Assumptions are not facts. I did not delete your comment at all. It was deleted by the administrator. Do you ever consider that some of the words that appear here are designed to ruffle the feathers of those who pretend to be beyond the very thing that they accuse others of? I have no concern about my reputation and things get expressed quite spontaneously. I seem to have a knack of being able to stir up just about anyone.
Those who have truly seen that there is no self-center are not disturbed.
There is absolutely no point in pretending to oneself that there is no belief in ‘me’.
Just because a teacher is popular, does not mean that their message is clean and direct – it is usually the opposite. But that is how it is all being expressed in the appearance.
Do you argue with your own reflection in the mirror? Finding fault is easy. What have you done recently to share a clear message with the multitude? -apart from gripe about teachers and grumble about whatever it is that you are upset about.
I repeat, it is only a ‘me’ that can get upset, angry or take offense.
Why not take our advice and have a close look at that ‘me’.
If you are upset right now about these few words, then there is the material to examine and find out once and for all time – for yourself.
See if you can find a center to that disturbance. Take a close look at where it is located and see what it is. Don’t make excuses and blame ME for your feelings.
I haven’t done anything to you. It is all yours. Or don’t you see that?
Sometimes things appear to get worse before they get better. But it is all in the appearance of ‘things’.
What you truly are has never been scratched or harmed by anything. But you must see that for yourself – no one can do it for you. The SEEING is clear and unobstructed.
The fixation on ‘me’ is the problem. There is no me here – and there is no me there either.
This is obvious ‘here’. But not ‘there’ it seems. Who has the problem?
Once the ‘me’ is truly seen for what it is, a massive relief marks the occasion.
It ‘arrives’ unexpectedly – the simplicity of it takes you by surprise.
Bitching and grumbling will not solve this one. It is up to YOU.
Let me tell you that there is no anger here – what I am telling you is compassionate – but as soon as it is taken ‘personally’ and referred the the ‘me of memory’ the compassion of it is missed.
What could I possibly get out of this? Many don’t like some of the things I write – if I was concerned about a ‘me’ here, wouldn’t such controversy be avoided? It is all spontaneously appearing.
There is no impulse here to feed people with spiritual bullshit. The spiritual self-image is complete nonsense and you KNOW IT IS.
If you can’t see what I am getting at, then leave it be. Let it be.
Grapes ripen in the sunshine.
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The biggest ego there is is one who claims or believes he has no ego.
It is not a question of there is no ‘me’ or no ‘you’ but instead seeing that who we truly are includes this ’separation’ that arises in the present moment .
All is included and nothing is excluded in this Oness that we truly are including Gilbert being an asshole at times (lucky for me that he doen’t take this stuff personally)
As Tim Freke said ‘Waking up to Oneness and Celebrating Separateness’.
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We all log on from time to time and read the podcasts. Then we drop in a comment or ask a question. All the comments and questions also make the site interesting and action packed.
Before the next comment or question pause briefly and…
Have a think about the FORTY FOUR podcasts!
What a store of pointers!
What about the massive effort of Gilbert and Areti and their guests to produce these forty four podcasts in the time the site has been up and running!
What about the endless unpaid hours… and then the costs!
This site is undoubtedly the biggest and the best collection of non duality pointers in the world!
Many of us readers are very, very grateful.
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Why would I spend anytime thinking about separateness when I’ve already spent 49 years suffering while thinking and seeing everything separate?
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Am I banging my head against a brick wall? The old saying goes: “When you stop banging your head against a brick wall, it feels good.”
There is NO ego and….there is NO separation. They are merely concepts.
The fog of feelings that surround these non existing believed in ‘things’ is nothing but a mirage. If you don’t think about them, is there any evidence of them being anything real or even unreal?
It is quite interesting how a certain aspect of what Tim is saying has been grabbed onto with vigor, like disappearing hot cakes. Meanwhile some excellent and sharp pointing is just passed over.
What this site is primarily about is NON DUALITY. The site itself appears in the realm of duality – pointing consistently to ‘the Non Dual’ – where you are seeing from.
Separation APPEARS to be all around you. The fictional belief is a boundary between the location where you appear to be and the world ‘outside’ AND it has no substance whatsoever except the apparent substance of belief. Belief is NOT the actual. The mind has drawn an imaginary line around itself. But what mind is there apart from thought?
It appears that there is an ‘entity’ trapped inside that imaginary boundary.
If this imaginary boundary is poked at from outside, it seems that the ‘wall’ reinforces itself automatically with defense mechanisms.
If the boundary is truly investigated from within it is found to be transparent.
No one can do the investigation for you. All that can happen is that suggestions are placed before you. In seeing through this concept of separation, one can see clearly that there is no separation anywhere. One can also SEE that apparent ‘others’ believe in separation. For some, when the defense mechanism fails through exhaustion, the view opens up automatically. So, where you are seeing from, where seeing is actually happening, is revealed to be one with everything – no boundary.
The sense of separation is the ’cause’ of much fear until it is seen through. Pretending to be seeing through it is useless.
Once it is seen through then one may celebrate the apparent separateness of things, without fear. Many of those who believe that they are separate desperately want to be rid of that separation because it appears to make them suffer.
If you imagine that you can just jump in and celebrate separation without first de-polarizing the belief system, then you are dreaming. Investigate the me.
How many times is this pointed out. Obviously few actually act upon that advice.
It is the key to it all. But you must use the key. The Cage door is Open.
But the bird sits on its perch and shivers in fear. It won’t fly out the cage.
But the CAGE does NOT exist. You were NEVER bound.
It is only the mind that tells you, from habit, that you are bound and YOU believe it.
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Thought seems to be so powerful , the effect it has on the body and the belief that its happening to me, that’s what is so hard to see through over here. trust me the pointings are being followed but with no fruits being bared. i must be investigating the wrong way or something. this dam mull like me wont let up, love jacob
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What power has a thought got? Thought is not powerful. The problem is belief in them.
The mind translates what is appearing by using words, images and memory. This is natural. The constant referencing to the ‘me of memory’ brings with it a whole bunch of stuff from the past. Associative thought patterns.
Non conceptual awareness must be present for the concepts to appear on or in.
The ‘problem’ is that ‘we’ believe the translation is reality.
Even in this account above there is a story about how ‘I am bound’ – it is just a story appearing in the immediacy and through belief in that story ‘we’ say “it is so powerful”.
The clear wakefulness is present as ‘pure duration’. No beginning and no end to it.
Right now, see that what you are is clearly present – you cannot say what it is but it is not possible to negate it. It is similar to ’space’. You cannot grasp space because the hand is appearing in space. The hand is the content of space.
In the same way, we try to grasp clear and present awareness with a concept.
‘We’ are so used to believing in these arising thoughts as if they were reality itself and so we miss what is blindingly OBVIOUS.
Leave things AS THEY ARE. Be the observing – be the seeing.
Everything is contained in the seeing. There is no ’seer’ as such.
You are Cosmic Consciousness – Singular – boundless.
Why trade that for miserable concepts about being a limited creature that keeps building a prison out of concepts? Thought has no power. Have a good look and SEE that this is true. Once the belief is off and running, the feeling adds apparent substance and it is not so easy to see through it. Catch these beliefs as they arise, before they start collecting feelings and emotions. All I can do is point.
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Really appreciated gilbert, Thanks, your pointing immediately cuts through it, just the habit and belief in things that comes back in x
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Jake, remember that nothing is wrong. It make feel wrong, it may look wrong, hell – it may even SMELL wrong but, it isn’t. THIS is the perfect appearance of oneness. Ha!
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There are too few comments coming in these days, lets see if I can rock the boat a little :
The greatest obstacle that blocks one from true seeing is YOURSELF.
All these ‘great pointers’ will give you insights and aha! moments but until one dares to look within and bring the crap that is stored there in plain view, one will remain in bondage .
This is the last place one wants to look but it is a necessary part of the so-called journey. It must be seen that ‘who you think you are’ is what stands in the way of true seeing.
So, the choice is yours, how many pointers will you need before they become repetitive and pointless. Are you willing to face yourself and be truthful or do you want more pointers ? Gilbert and his team have many.
Your true nature is always present but why can’t you see it? what is blocking it? well… you are… now investigate who this ‘you’ truly is.
Okay Gilbert, I gave you enough material to ridicule what I just said. Go wild with your response.
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Nothing is “blocking” your true nature. Name your supposed blockage. Whatever is named is IN AWARENESS. So, you see that nothing is or ever was blocked. Don’t debate the simplicity of this.
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Ralph, you take the prize. Amazing….truly amazing. Why don’t you read your comment a few times and see if you can get a glimpse of how convoluted it is. It is a Mobius strip. The last line is the knot. Ridicule needs a ‘me’ to be ridiculed. There isn’t one.
There is only one seeing happening.
The seeing is not coming out of the content of the mind, no matter how high and mighty the concepts are. Everything is contained in the seeing.
In other words there is nothing that can be outside of this seeing. The subtlest wisp of a concept, the subtlest light of a distant star, the subtest twinge in your back, the vaguest memory or the subtlest colors in the evening sky – it ALL appears as CONTENT in the seeing.
Seeing is prior to all that is perceived anywhere, by anyone and in any time.
SEEING is this immediate activity, which is not touched by the label ’seeing’.
When the labels are seen for what they are – it is the same activity as seeing the story of me for what it is. If one imagines that one can actually MAKE someone SEE what needs to be seen, then it is imagination. All that can be done from ‘here’ is to point accurately and directly……maybe ruffle up the ‘persona’ a little to dislodge the ‘glue’ and let things take the course.
When my ‘persona’ is recognized as a transient form by someone out there, there is a reciprocal recognition in themselves, although it may not be recognized as that.
‘People’ like straight shooters. What erks them is the flip flop. But it is the flip flop in themselves that needs to be addressed or seen.
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“Nothing is “blocking†your true nature.”
…. oh really, then why is it that so many miss the simplicity of this ?
I say, debate it until it becomes very clear and not before.
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Again, you are more interested in ‘others’ than in your own direct and immediate cognition. True compassion is to get free yourself. Then you will KNOW what to do for these apparent ‘others’. The sense of separation has not been seen through, obviously. Why not address that, NOW.
You can debate it all till the cows come home.
SEEING is happening.
No amount of debate will change the seeing. It is the belief in the mind content as being something real that is the apparent problem. BUT for WHOM?
It can only be a problem for a ‘me’.
Investigate that ‘me’. It is exceedingly simple.
You can take your attention and visit the finest sensations in the body very easily.
In the same way one needs to explore this sensation of ‘me’. In the midst of a turmoil can be the most efficient time to explore it. The trouble is that all the energy is usually going into the belief. But a spark of recognition can happen at any time. It is always unexpected.
Now it is time for the third program on Tim…….check it out….
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“There is only one seeing happening”.
… it just so happens to be Gilbert’s seeing
kidding aside… there is no complaints on your ‘direct pointers’ but you refuse to accept other viewpoints that lead to the same place which, of course, is HERE.
Okay, ready for part three of Tim Freke’s interview and thanks for putting it together for ‘others’ to see.
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“All that can be done from ‘here’ is to point accurately and directly……maybe ruffle up the ‘persona’ a little to dislodge the ‘glue’ and let things take the course.”
But this approach paves the way for all kinds of abuse to happen. I read “Enlightenment Blues” a few years ago about Andrew Cohen’s cult. It was a fascinating read. He seemed to have this same philosophy of “anything goes” when it comes to helping others get free.
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The new program is up, you may need to refresh your UGC page to see it.
Ralph, there is no Gilbert’s point of view in the pure seeing. Gilbert is merely a pattern appearing in the impersonal seeing. All points of view are ‘looking out’ of the same No Thing, the same emptiness. The point of view is a reference to a ’seer’. It has no substance. Other points of view are equally valid AND invalid in Prue Seeing.
The concept ‘I see’ is erroneous. It is a pattern. Tim makes this quite clear in his talk.
As he says (paraphrasing) “Tim is just part of the flow of colors shapes etc appearing”.
There is some kind of catch upon the conceptual notions of being a ’seer’ that is causing the confusion. Ralph, you and I have been tossing this back and forth for months.
I have no problem with it. As i have pointed out over and over, there is a concern there for ‘others’ and the impotency you probably feel is because you have not seen through the conceptual notions that you hang onto. Forget about ‘others’. Get to the root of the matter once and for all. I can play ping pong all day with you but I cannot make you SEE.
The ‘you’ that is believed in can NEVER see. Seeing is already happening. It is not personal. When this is totally recognized, then the personal can be expressed without any internal drama. What we are pointing at is beyond worldly knowledge. It can be named as Pure Gnosis. The name is not IT. Thinking about it is not IT.
It is non-conceptual.
This wakefulness, clear and present is there when ‘you’ wake in the morning. For a brief moment (or longer) there is no story of me playing. There is an obvious pure knowing that is unadorned by the personal agenda. Then the story of me kicks in but recognize THIS: All the concepts appear on that clear and present wakefulness. Nothing alters or changes it and it is NEVER scratched or harmed by anything that appears or disappears.
This profundity is ordinary awareness. ‘We’ overlook it and go in search for something else – some concept we have heard about.
Then ‘we’ get concerned about ‘others’. Useless.
Mike: This is not a Cult. No one is being trampled on or kept as slaves to any guru or business man.
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