Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
45. Gnosis – Timothy Freke – Part 3
Posted on 07.04.09 11:56AM under Podcast, Tim Freke
Part Three of this interview will complete this trilogy. Enjoy.
International best selling co-author of “The Jesus Mysteries”, Tim Freke, gives his views on Non Duality and integrating the sense of separation in this second part of a single interview.
Gnosticism is all about the simplicity of knowing, the naked, unadorned knowing that is present with you right now.
Here is a quote from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj that express the essence message in these programs:
“Be conscious of this consciousness – that is the only meditation one needs”.
Timothy’s quirky website Click HERE.
Music includes: U2, Van Morrison, Everything but the Girl, The Beatles, Massive Attack, Bob Dylan, I am Sam, Ali Akbar Khan, Jan Hassen and Tafu.
A short voice cut from The Matrix.
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Posted by gilbert on 07.04.09 11:57 am
Well, here is part three. Enjoy it. It may be the last one you listen to while still believing in separation.
One clue that may be of assistance is this: This discovery of self – this self-knowledge, is the revelation that there is no self.
There is ONLY PRESENCE – undivided by ANY mind – Just THAT and nothing but THAT.
- Warm regards – Gilbert.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.04.09 2:21 pm
Wow….are you kidding me? I guess this is how countless books and seminars propagate. Rather than confusingly saying that the oneness and personhood are two polarities of what you are, I think it’s wise to stick to the fact of your beingness. How many are there of you? The experience of personhood is temporary but your changeless nature is present always. Lots of luck to those who find peace in the “bi-polar” approach suggested in this MP3. And for these lucky ones, THEN you will have got what it takes to REALLY live lucidly as Tim suggests. With due respect, could somebody take this Timothy guy out for a beer and get him away from the microphone please?
Posted by gilbert on 07.04.09 2:34 pm
Who cares? Every word ever uttered by anyone in any place is only THAT.
The knowing is there before the very first vibration of any word or concept arises – it all arises from this emptiness.
If you get caught on the vibration and the form it means there is personal identification happening. Who cares? The morbid expression of some sacred guru and the happy free spirited expression of Tim are equal at the source – which is Gnosis – Knowing.
Who cares? Get over it. Take the bullets out of the gun, take the meaning out of the words, and what is left? What argument can survive? APPARENT Duality dissolve into its original state – Non Duality.
Posted by Vlad on 07.04.09 2:53 pm
Finally, a well-timed “Who cares?”
The Wallflowers. Well done, Gilbert. Thanks, Tim.
Peace & Love,
All the while, can someone take Kimo out for a beer and a rufi?
Posted by gilbert on 07.04.09 3:19 pm
We are contemplating doing a program where all our animated comment makers can have their say – get across their message in say 5 minutes. It could be very interesting.
Kimo, Ralph, Vlad, Morgan and a few others. Areti can have an open discussion with anyone who has been animated on the comment pages. Give it some thought if you are interested. It doesn’t have to be heavy. If you think that there are some salient points that we have overlooked or that we somehow disregard, then here is the chance to have your say.
I will give it the same production treatment as all the other programs. I think it is a great idea.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.04.09 3:49 pm
Unlike most of the speakers, I’m only interested in presenting a manifesto and not a discussion on UGC. If Areti interrupted me and asked me if I’d like to explain a concept further, I might say “not really” and just press on with my own agenda… But seriously, my preference is to discuss this with folks who resonate with my approach in small face-to-face meetings who would appreciate the sharing. Out of those you mentioned, keep pursuing Morgan for an interview. He’s got a clean delivery on this stuff.
Posted by Sully on 07.04.09 5:26 pm
“You are not a person” but “You are a person” So which one is it??? I guess he is saying we are both…
If we are the empty space in which all things appear then we are all things, not just this person appearing..right?
Posted by gilbert on 07.04.09 5:29 pm
Then there is the story of the execution day. The first two were spared because the Guillotine blade got stuck. Superstition says that if the hand of God intervenes you are freed. The third up, was the village idiot. He put his head in the guillotine facing upwards. Just before the executioner was about to pull the lever (and repeat the event) the Village idiot shouted “Wait, I think I can see what the problem is”.
Posted by gilbert on 07.04.09 5:40 pm
In Essence you are No Thing – nothing perceivable or conceivable.
In appearance there is a body in a world – and thoughts appearing.
This body and this world ‘appear’ in that clear space-like awareness. This is quite obvious in more ways than one. Even in the ordinary sense of seeing, isn’t it obvious that everything that is perceived is appearing (appearance) in awareness?
Solid objects are sensed through touch. Touch is a perception.
Is an Elephant heavy? If you try to pick it up, yes it appears to be heavy.
The ‘person’ is a bunch of concepts. How heavy are they?
The resistance to taking the freedom that is innately yours is due to concepts, beliefs.
In fact there is no person. There is no person in bondage or in freedom.
The Essence of what you ARE, what everybody is, has never been bound and so the famous liberation story that so many seekers get hooked on is a fiction.
What substance can lucid living have? It is all light. The WHOLE is already enlightened – not the individual. The journey of the individual is a fiction. Who wants to know that?
‘People’ love stories of how to get there. In the instant of recognizing your own true nature, all stories about time and a journey are consumed in a flash. In this moment there is knowing that what I am has always been here, naked and present to ‘what is’.
Now, are you not present right here, with ‘what is’? What journey is necessary? What ‘tools’ do you need? How many steps must you take? In what direction do you have to move? You are not the body nor the mind – you are not a person.
There is no way around this. Face it and it will resolve itself.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.04.09 5:58 pm
No, Tim has a “polarity stick” with awareness/oneness on one end, and on the other end there is Tim the person. Gee, methinks the whole concept of a polarity stick is in awareness (or arises in awareness). You never separated from what you are (that ground of being). Teaching that you are both a person and awareness is grossly misleading. The experience of personhood arises in awareness. You never become a person in-essence at any time. There’s no deviation from your true nature ever.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.04.09 6:45 pm
You cannot be a person because the person is only a concept and associated experiences arising in awareness (and has no being of its own). As it is arising conceptually in awareness, the concept of a person is also not separate from who you are. This is the very loose link into any sort of teaching that says you are awareness and the person-concept. The huge error with that analysis is forgetting that awareness contains all/ is all. I cannot grasp, from the grab bag of multitudinous concepts arising in awareness and say “this is what I am” to the exclusion of all others. None of the objects appearing in awareness are what I am because I cannot pick one object and exclude all others. They all arise in what I am. And I also cannot pick all objects and say I am all objects because in essence there are no objects as they are all “formed” of that same emptiness. That awareness that I am.
Good Night
Peace, Kimo
Posted by Brian Lake on 07.04.09 7:44 pm
Thanks again Gilbert and Areti,
Take a re-listen. Forget the words. Try an experiment of one listening of focusing on the enthusiasm coming from ‘Tim’. That is a potent pointer. No need to weigh the words. So much Life flowing freely as a fact. Marinate in that immediate vitality. What we are is all inclusive, open and unobstructed. It does not give a shit what appears or what is labeled or what is said. Anything goes for an open space. Or ‘there is no duality in non-duality’ as it is pointed.
(I thought the mixing was especially good in this podcast)
thanks for rocking
Brian
Posted by tomvds on 07.04.09 10:01 pm
Nice sounds from the cafe at the end of the Universe!:
“Fundamentally I have no Idea what’s going on”
“people who paid real, real attention to the appearances have come back from the edge saying “hey guys they’re not there”"
“It is the One “before whom words recoil.” (Shankara)”
“When you approach that mystery it’s all blah blah blah blah,…”
“If you’ve never been ‘there’ you won’t understand the words anyway; And when you’ve been there you won’t need the words anyway”
“It something so completely obvious we don’t see it. That what we are is this vast emptiness whithin which the world is arising. That we’re awareness and that everything we’re concious of exists in us. And that’s the polarity of our identity again: On the one hand I’m Tim, i’m this limited body, that’s what I appear to be that’s what my apparent identity is. Whith a history a future a personal life and all the rest of it. And he exists in this worls, tiny , tiny … in this huge vast Universe. And on the other hand there is ‘what I am’ and what you are and what everyone is, and what everything is, which is this vast awareness or big mind as the zenmasters say, the dreamer, the Life-dreamer I call it sometimes, God the religious people call it, there is this presence which is and everything is arising whithin it, that’s what you are; And as Nisargadatta says: “All your problems arise because you confind yourself into a space of a body and the span of a lifetime, undeceive yourself and be free”, you’re not a person, you are nothing, this emptiness and everything , nothing and everything. You’re the place where the opposites are not separate and you’re experiencing it in the place were the opposites are separate. ”
“The opposites are not separate, they co-exist.”
“The fundamental nature of reality is not Oneness, the fundamental nature is paradox or polarity. The fundamental nature is Oneness and many-ness at the same time. It’s the coincidence of all the opposites including Oneness and many-ness. So it’s including Oneness and many-ness. That’s what makes it not-two. That’s a paradox, that’s why you can’t think about it. thinking is based on either/or. And yet this is a thing where both AND …. both poles co-exist.”
Maybe you could compare this not-two-pole analogy to a Môbius-strip , where the one exists in the other, not separate; yin and yang, see the animated gif on Gilbert’s site.
And again:
“When you approach that mystery it’s all blah blah blah blah,…”
These soundwaves from beyond the edge were beautifully musically interwoven ! God is after all a dj.
Posted by tomvds on 07.04.09 11:13 pm
Experiment:
Without relying on memory, where does your being start or begins? Can you find a limit to this?
This is your true ‘body’. The ‘I am this body/mind in a world’ exists only in a story we tell ourselves. The story is no problem, It just appears. Seeking your IDENTITY in the story is the problem. This so-called polarity is assymmetrical, on the one hand you have who you think you are in this world,the story composed of memory, wich is an image and on the other hand there is the formless background on wich it appears and without it cannot exist, like a speck of dust in the mirror; There is no outside the mirror.
Posted by tomvds on 07.04.09 11:27 pm
You want clarity?:
“All objects come and go in your Presence – the Presence of “I”. And this “I” is like a mirror – the basis or ground for all experience – like a mirror required for the reflection to appear. The reflection is MADE OF mirror. The world is MADE OF “I”.”-Quote Randall Friend
Posted by gilbert on 07.04.09 11:27 pm
Tom, the word ‘which’ is spelled with an h after the w. Not wich. No offense intended.
The symbol for infinity is like a figure 8 laying down.
Infinity is the boundless nature of the one. It APPEARS to have two sections but they are ‘connected’ at the center. The brain has two hemispheres but the functioning is one whole.
The mind is dualistic and concepts usually have a bias. As a being, where does the ‘inside’ become the ‘outside’? We think in dualistic terms consistently.
What is black without white? What is darkness without light? The manifestation is spontaneously appearing in this instant…. ‘things’ are not appearing with labels attached. “This is a Chair”….”This is a Table”. ‘We’ assign labels and think that the labels (thoughts) are reality. The labels appear spontaneously as well.
Belief in distinctly separate ‘things’ as having some independence needs to be questioned.
Like a mobius strip, the inside is the outside and the outside is the inside. Apparent duality is one and the same.
Isn’t the problem that those who have seen through the concept of separation have a subtle joy about them. Those who are TRYING to attain that same joy are getting upset because they keep failing to grasp it. Frustration just tightens up the machine.
Relax.
Those who have seen through the concept of separation have naturally ceased from TRYING. As Bob says “The search is the problem” and “What you seek you already are”.
Posted by Morgan on 07.04.09 11:55 pm
Haven’t listened to this podcast yet but, I agree that the one thing I didn’t like about Tim’s take is the talk of separation as being something real. Seems to be much less confusing if just refered to as appearance instead of perhaps giving it some objective reality. All the ideas of separation, levels, 7 spiritual secrets of success that any “guru” ever talked about are just more conceptual divisions in that which CANNOT be divided.
Tim says that consciousness is separation. Not so – appearance is CONTRAST, which thought then labels as division. Obviously it’s all one undivisible whole. I’ve been reading “The Laughing Jesus” by Tim and, so far, he’s talked about how inaccurate all of the “holy” scriptures are, showing historical inconsistencies, etc. Could be useful for someone who believes that they were actually written by God. It seems the only value ideas have in seeing one’s true identity is being used to remove other ideas that are believed in. We don’t need another “model of reality” as WE ARE THAT.
Posted by tomvds on 07.05.09 12:28 am
OK, with an ‘h’ after ‘w’; Maybe I have been reading to much fairytales like ‘The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe’. Anyway, there is no magic wardrobe-door opening to Reality; THIS is IT. The ‘I Am’ is a revolving door; It brings you right back to the place you never left.
Posted by Jeremy on 07.05.09 12:54 am
Tim’s enthusiasm is very contagious, and he comes across here clear as a bell. Hardline advaitaspeak can be as dogmatic as any other belief system. I appreciate Tim’s attempt to bring this message to listeners who don’t give a crap about the lingo. Gilbert’s repeated pointer that the nature of non-duality is all inclusive is what Tim is going on about.
Gilbert, you have quite a talent for matching music to theme. Thanks for another great program.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.05.09 1:24 am
Brian Lake’s input is interesting but I would assert does not apply in this case–and I’ll explain: Yes, it’s beautiful when ‘one’ is in the company of ‘someone’ who is enthusiastic for life. I have been lucky enough to meet some in the Christian community who have taken a totally devotional path of serving others and they glow with happiness in what they are doing and life in general. There is no sense in grabbing any of these folks and “setting them straight with Advaita” because it’s totally unnecessary. But these folks are bubbling with enthusiasm DESPITE their dogmatic beliefs. In fact, you get the impression that serving others is their true religion even though they will repeat what they’ve heard in Church due to their programming; but one can see that the words or actual “faith life” are plainly secondary to their devotion to others. HOWEVER, ‘someone who is suffering’ may meet a kind soul like this and want to know their secret of living. They may hear “Jesus loves you, he’s the only path to the Father, follow the Ten Commandments…”. Then ‘the person’ runs with that information and maybe comes out short and remains miserable because the “faith in Jesus” approach maybe doesn’t cut it. Here’s exactly where listening to Tim’s stuff and running with what he’s saying can be misleading or a dead end. Folks hear his enthusiasm and translate that into ‘he must know what he’s talking about’—”I’ll follow Tim’s explanation that outlines who I am (both a separate person and the oneness) because I want that same outlook on life that he has”. Good luck with that.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.05.09 1:45 am
Hey Tomvds, thanks for typing out some of the comments from the MP3. They actually look better typed out (and cherry-picked) in getting Tim’s message across. When I listened to the MP3, the ‘schoolteacher’ (I won’t say advaita police) in me wanted to come out and pounce on the separate person concept he’s espousing. The paragraphs you’ve chosen to type, however, put this presentation in a better light. I’ll say there’s some resonation in general with the paragraphs you’ve chosen.
Posted by gilbert on 07.05.09 2:35 am
Identified consciousness is limited and constricted – fearful of being discovered as a fraud. No one wants to be nothing. Personal conditioning is simply belief in the story of me. No matter how dramatic that conditioning appears to be, it is nothing but a limited view. What we are pointing to is the unlimited nature of awareness – freedom from all limitations. Some have tried for years for the great enlightenment and it eludes them.
I ask them “What is the price and do you truly, really want it? Truly?”
Awareness appearing as the attention can move about the interior of the body with ease. It can be expanded beyond the content of mind and knowingly include the naked ‘space of knowing’. Our attention is usually attracted to ‘things’ and we miss the space that they appear in. It is the same with the so-called ‘mind’. ‘We’ are attracted to the concepts, words and objects that appear on or in awareness. If the attention is expanded to include the very space out of which the concepts, thoughts and ideas are appearing out of, then the clear and present knowing embraces that which is appearing. The attention has the natural possibility to be like a double headed arrow. One point is pointing ‘out there’ at the world and the other is potentially pointing back into BEING to the source of this knowing. In this way everything becomes all inclusive again.
WHERE are you seeing from? It is NOT a theoretical question.
These words are not it. They simply point at it. They may be clumsy words for some or even confusing – but I am not actually choosing them – they simply appear by themselves.
Take a walk around the house and notice that awareness is not moving as an object in space. The body and the interior of the house appear to move. In taking oneself to be the body, it appears that you are (I am, is) moving through space and the things around you are stationary. In taking myself to be simply this aware space, the whole interior of the house appears to be animated and not the body as the whole scene moves towards, past and around the body. The doorway is over there. It seems to grow larger as I walk towards it and it passes around me and disappears behind me, while another room opens up spontaneously.
See that this clear and present awareness is not an object and it is NOT actually moving at all. Reality is unchanging.
When it is said that “you are not the body nor the mind” it is not idle philosophical prattle. As Tim mentioned, when he read Nisargadatta say that “You are not a person” it gave him a shock, one that brought so-called ‘deep insights’.
Try this experiment. It may scare the pants off you – but only because of the attachment to the ‘me’.
You as a separate entity have NEVER thought a thought. You have no idea what your next thought will be and to pretend to yourself that you do know is delusional.
To be disillusioned is generally looked upon as a negative thing. Dis-illusioned.
To be rid of illusions about oneself is NOT negative.
ALL of our programs have many valuable ‘pointers’. Very few ever mention them – and many jump on to points that erk them. I wonder if they ever consider that the ‘problem’ is theirs alone.
Posted by Ron Marson on 07.05.09 3:38 am
Non-conceptual being is not an object unless I think about ‘it’. Thinking turns THIS clear and obvious undefinable intelligence into one more mind object, another explanation.
When I discriminate among mind objects, saying this explanation is ‘better’ or ‘more direct’ than that one, I become a believer in my own personal church of time and mind. That is, I become a person.
Non-conceptual being, appearing as a person believing his own story in time, happens spontaneously. Any resistance to this appearance reinforces the notion of a ‘me’ that is able to resist.
There is no way out of the mind. Understanding this, THIS breaks through. (The story in time is that the mind has unraveled itself.)
As Tim says, the fundamental nature of THIS is mystery. To the mind THIS looks like paradox both everything and no-thing, neither existence nor non-existence, the middle way. To non-conceptual being (‘where’ THIS is seeing from), THIS is wholly its indivisible Self, spontaneously moving everything, disguised as everything moving itself.
Posted by Ron Marson on 07.05.09 3:45 am
Here is a nice definition of non-conceptual being:
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.05.09 4:31 am
You know, we can also sit around in silent meditation too.
Or ‘somebody’ can make an MP3 or make a comment and we can say nothing in response or just say ‘good job’ in order not to ‘expose our belief in ourselves as separate entities’.
Part of the appearance is that discussions are arising about what we are and apparent points of view are arising in response. “I” enjoy the feedback immensely and also the feedback about the feedback. If ‘you’ don’t, feel free to retain your holy crown of providing only positive feedback or remaining as a “silent sage”.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.05.09 6:27 am
I was hoping you would be my friend.
Maybe I could be a good influence on you and convince you to give up drugs and the fat chick porn sites.
Posted by dan on 07.05.09 8:05 am
Its just THIS!!!!
There is no person in it.
Its a sweet thought that all of this would suddenly collapse if there was no entity there controlling and maintaining it. But, remarkably, there is no-commander-in-chief, no masters, no teachers, no wise men….. yet, this IS! Unbelievable (to the mind).
Gilbert often says: there is no way out of the dream in the dream.
In other words, the illusion can not bring an end to the illusion.
There is no escape!
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.05.09 8:19 am
I enjoyed Gilbert’s very first rebuttal on this page:
“The knowing is there before the very first vibration of any word or concept arises – it all arises from this emptiness.”
Amen, it almost “feels like” a “reverse juicer”.
The smallest vibration, like machine language or assembly code is appearing as a sensation in you/to you.
Those same building blocks appear to evolve into complex languages and concepts. Before you know it, there’s a sense of separation and “different folks” are telling each other to piss-off or they’re walking around on eggshells only providing compliments to one another because they may fear losing their position or relationship with “another” or their “persona” as a “nice person”.
All the while, this can all be melted down to those tiny vibrations registering in what you are. In this knowing, you can never have your identity be confused with the appearance again.
Posted by Ralph on 07.05.09 8:31 am
“The essential message of the perennial philosophy is polarity. A polarity consists of opposites which can only exist together. Hot and cold are opposites, for example, but you can’t have ‘hot’ without ‘cold’ and vice versa. Reality is predicated on polarity. Our identity is polar. We are both the oneness of awareness and separate individuals within the life-dream. Lucid living is becoming conscious we are both one and separate. It is not either/or. It is both/and. ”
“Our individual identities are to be celebrated, because it is only by appearing to be separate that the one can become conscious of itself.”
- Tim Freke
(Waking up to Oneness and Celebrating Separateness)
Posted by Linda on 07.05.09 9:28 am
Tim seems to be describing the Buddha’s middle way…………..
“In the discourse to Katayana ,
the Buddha argues that to assert that things exist inherently is to fall into the extreme of reification,
to argue that things do not exist at all is to fall into the extreme of nihilism,
and to follow the middle way is neither to assert in an unqualified way that things exist
nor in an unqualified way that things do not exist.”
(The fundamental wisdom of the middle way by Nagarjuna – Jay Garfield)
Posted by nathan on 07.05.09 10:03 am
I enjoyed these podcasts with Tim, however, there was something that just didn’t sit right. I think I may be echoing some critiques which appeared here earlier, but here it is anyway.
Listening to this latest installment at first it struck me as the “mountains are mountains agian” saying from Dogen….but that half ass thing was still there…..the “oneness” he expresses seems like someone trying hard at being oneness…..seeing intellectually that it really is so, and then saying f*ck it….I’ll put the mask back on from time to time when I feel like being a person agian….a sense of someone trying to have it both ways.
This is the impression…partly because separation IS NOT the opposite of oneness….at least that is how it is seen here. The apparent polarity is what gives the illusion of separation when there is identification with one or the other….but that ‘apparent’ polarity is IN this NON-THING awareness. Individual identity is NOT identity…that’s the fantasy…there is no freedom for the individual.
And by the way, just exactly who is it that is vascillating between oneness and separation….an illusion celebrating a shadow? It’s just all a bit convoluted.
Anyhow…good mixing it up a bit!
Nathan
Posted by gilbert on 07.05.09 1:18 pm
A: “Let’s weigh him. If he weighs the same a duck, he must be a witch.”
B: “Yeah, let’s burn him at the stake.”
C: “Wait a minute, what, what did you say? – Burn him?”
B: “Yeah, he’s a witch, burn him before he casts a spell over us.”
C: “What has his weight got to do with being a witch?”
A: ‘What? Er, well…….er…….I dunn know.”
Crowd: “Burn him, he’s a witch, a warlock…..evil”
The divine tragedy, the divine comedy, where the audience gets to be totally involved in the play…..One Play – they are given a mask and forget what they truly are for the duration of the play. The Ushers must keep the audience in order as much as possible. Some Ushers have a torch and they shine it around from time to time, to show some patrons where they actually are…..in this moment.
The audience at large believe that they are actually in the play…..and they are……whatever that means. Apparent separation does appear to give the sensation of being separate.
The irony is that the identification with the play is mis-identification. It is not what you truly are.
As Tim pointed out – awareness is not in the forms etc….(paraphrasing) Surely you know the taste of being carried along with the dream…and that you are not that activity.
Beyond all details – there is one taste to it all. Everything is THAT.
There is only THAT – indescribable presence – some call it presence-awareness.
Some call it ordinary awareness.
It is ALL THAT.
Strictly speaking the directness of the simple message is: You are THAT.
End of story. But the mind cannot abide with stillness.
The understanding is in the stillness – not in the restless mind.
That is so simple to recognize. What you need to see is why does the mind keep dividing THAT, when it is obviously only a seeming division – it is mere belief and belief is NOT the actual. You KNOW that you ARE – you don’t believe that you are. Stay with the knowing and let the beliefs drop away.
Posted by gilbert on 07.05.09 3:15 pm
Basically it is very simple. Everything is of ‘the appearance’ and the appearance is not the real. What is real about you is not in the realm of appearances. It is simply this activity of knowing (gnosis). It NEVER appears as any distinct ‘thing’ yet it appears AS everything – and it has no duration – it is only EVER this immediacy called LIFE.
If it were not for this principle called LIFE, you would not be able to function at all.
Words fail ‘as you approach it’ through the mind. The mind and all its content belongs to the appearance and none of it has the capacity of knowing. The so-called mind, body and the world APPEAR in this knowing presence. It is One Presence. ‘You’ as a believed in separate entity do not exist. There is no duality in Non Duality.
Whether ‘you’ realize this or not does not matter in the slightest.
Those who get a glimpse of this often go on to think that they are special. That drama of being special is just more identification with the appearance. Those who truly realize the Oneness of things have a very different ‘way of being’, if one must put a label on it.
They are living sign posts, exceptionally ordinary and are not ‘selling anything’.
They are a living organic expression of NO SEPARATION.
They speak directly to the Essence that you ARE.
Whether it is heard or not is due to how busy the mind is with its conceptualizations.
How busy is your mind right now?
A simple pointer is: The space out of which ‘you’ are apparently seeing from is singular. The ‘you’ can be questioned or investigated but the space and the seeing are both beyond question. They are one and the same.
There are usually two eyes but the space (and the seeing) is singular.
Be conscious of this space without thought for a few moments. Get a good taste of this singular nature of seeing-knowing.
Posted by Morgan on 07.05.09 3:37 pm
I would like to do an interview. Editor: Good. Contact Areti on the urban guru cafe email address. She may email you also.
Posted by Morgan on 07.05.09 9:45 pm
I’d like Kimo and some of the “regulars” to be on also. Ralph sounds like a good pick too.
Posted by tomvds on 07.05.09 10:38 pm
I think the combination of Ralph with his consistent credo…
“I am speaking from within the dream also known as a prison and even though the prison is just an appearance, how do you tell someone that the prison they live in is not real, that the prison was self created and that it was never locked. I find that one way that may be effective is to meet this so called ‘other’ in their so called prison and from there walk them out of it. To simply use pointers alone will not do it, it must be seen and this takes ‘time’ and ‘effort’.” – Quote Ralph
“my take on this is those ‘oh so real obstacles’ IS what obscures pure naked awareness in the relative sense. Contemplating the pointers alone will in most cases not remove the illusory obstacles of ego consciousness because the belief in a ’separate’ you is still there so there is work to be done.” – Quote Ralph
… and the intelligent questioning of Areti, which really brought out the best of all previous interviewees here on the UGC, will give a really interesting show. Even better would be, to have Gilbert and Ralph together with Areti as moderator: Clash of the Titan(s): the final ping-pong game … ‘progressive’ versus ‘sudden’, time-bound versus timelessness. Hopefully there won’t be any casualties, but then again: time heals all wounds.
PS:Hey Kimo,I’m glad you liked the comments that to my eye were still glistening from the source so to speak.
Posted by dan on 07.05.09 11:17 pm
it is….. and….it isn’t.
Posted by Jacob ,Isle of wight. u.k on 07.05.09 11:32 pm
The sensation of the me is here a lot of the time. What’s the best way to investigate this sensation this feeling of me wanting to own it all? – Especially the emotions and feelings. love Jacob
Posted by gilbert on 07.06.09 12:25 am
The essence of any investigation is SEEING. Without seeing, no investigation. Investigation is not more seeking as some ‘teachers’ say. You are not impotent as such advice suggests. What you truly are has infinite scope – it is simply laden with erroneous concepts that inhibit the recognition of your true nature.
Seeing is naked and it is already happening and there is no concept about seeking that is actually attached to the seeing.
Whatever appears in the seeing is instantly seen – before any idea of a ‘seer’ comes into play. This can reveal itself naturally, although it appears to be an unusual event.
It is not an ‘event’ – seeing has no duration, no beginning and no end. Recognize that.
There is really nothing ‘you’ can ‘do’ as such. However, because the idea of being the ‘me’, there is a close alignment with the ever-present seeing-knowing – and even though the ‘me’ cannot see or know anything, it can be useful to play a role in the investigation. Take that idea of ‘me’ and delve into it.
As that believed in ‘me’, let it investigate itself. It may well dawn in clear and present awareness that that ‘form’ has no substance at all.
This revelation is useless if taken on the ‘level’ of belief. It is knowing, not belief that reveals everything for what it is. Belief needs maintenance. Knowing needs nothing. It IS.
This pure seeing is clear and empty right now. It is always so. These ideas about ‘self’ arise out of the same emptiness. Witness them first hand. Do not start up new stories about whatever appears, if that is possible.
The story of me is a long running serial and the character is a fiction. Emotions may rise up in resistance and a story about “This is too difficult” may appear. See them for what they are. It is exceedingly simple. There are no methods, as such. Each case is unique.
Let the mind rest on nothing at all for brief periods and see what happens.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.06.09 3:49 am
The sensation of a “me” as a separate person is never there. That’s a conceptual leap and a story that you’re taking for granted as real. Raw data is arising; that raw data is registered. the End
However, this is not “the End”. We choose to take those clusters of sensations/raw data and develop the idea of a separate person and a story. Then we hold up this concept, as if it has any existence on its own, and say “hey teacher, how do I fix this problem”.
The answer is to stop creating the problem. See what is always there despite your stories and self-constructed problems and issues.
Posted by Stephen Met on 07.06.09 4:08 am
Gilbert,
Your 12:25am post above is very concise.
Thank you
Posted by Ralph on 07.06.09 5:12 am
tomvds, let the ping pong game continue…..
on one side you have ‘either/or’ and on the other side you have ‘both/and’.
… but in the end (and not before) it will be seen that there is really only one player playing both sides.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.06.09 5:32 am
The story cannot see anything; yet seeing is happening.
This may come as an insight that “I am not the story”
But then “the story character reappears” and seemingly claims the insight as an attainment, and the ‘you’ is back as a seeker or as a charlatan guru who had an insight.
Next pass, it may be seen again that the seeing/knowing is happening and the insight again comes as “I am not the story”
But this time there is no separate entity who claims the experience.
However, the mind spins up again and says “this is pretty clear but what about other points of view and other people who are seeing”. And the seeking continues.
Next pass, you know that NO story can see. Not the story you ever thought you were, no Gilbert story, no John story, no Bob story. There is only the seeing/knowing.
Botta Bing.
Posted by Ryba on 07.06.09 6:07 am
Hey Kimo, love your comments. As Nathan remarked something doesn’t sit right. Indeed. All I hear in T Freke interview is enthusiastic recycling of other people’s ideas with a little spin to make it sound original. Some seem impressed by the enthusiasm. They say it’s contagious. Yeah, that’s how salesmen operate. They’ll sell you what you don’t need just because they’re acting so fired up. There are many fired up that sell ideas, e.g. Bill Harris or Rhonda Byrne (The Secret) ,and apparently they’re quite successful. So is T Freke, judging from the number of books he co-authored. I haven’t read any of them and don’t intend to. Seems he covered all the world religions already so Advaita is the logical next step. If one feels like hearing some in-depth philosophy and true insight, grab Alan Watts’ books or audio and you’ll spot the difference right away. And btw Nisargadatta also said: “See the false as the falseâ€. Greets to all – Ryba
Posted by tomvds on 07.06.09 6:27 am
“You have looked for yourself in every possible form. It never occurred to you to find yourself as an absence. In this total absence of what you are not, there is presence. But this presence is not yours. It is the presence of all living beings. You must not try to be open. You are open” – Quote from Jean Klein
Posted by gilbert on 07.06.09 9:15 am
Isn’t the true answer….. “I don’t know”.
Presence is knowing and Knowing is presence. And yet…..”I don’t know”. Is there an ‘I’ that knows anything. Is there an ‘I’ that “doesn’t know”?
You cannot negate something that has no form whatsoever. If ‘you’ reduce all activities down to the first and only true activity ‘knowing’ it will be obvious that there is nothing happening and the knowing does not belong to anyone.
In the appearance everyone is either an expert or a sponge – and the debate goes on and on.
‘We’ feel relieved if someone, anyone, believes in us, in what we say, in what we believe. Belief is not the actual.
If everyone votes for ‘me’ and ‘I’ get to be ‘top dog’, I feel on top of the world – for a little while, until ‘they’ start to make plans to bring me down.
Civilizations rise and fall – as the tide comes in and the tide goes out.
Do you really know what is going on? Come on……Really? Truly?
Tell the truth: “I don’t know”.
Posted by Vlad on 07.06.09 10:00 am
So we should just be open to this awareness — begging the age old question: “We?”
Posted by gilbert on 07.06.09 10:02 am
The Chef knows that a little spice here and there helps to spread the word about the ‘Cafe’ and its great food.
More and more come as words spreads – and more naturally have the opportunity to be truly nourished, not by the spices but by the basics of the meal (the message).
All the ‘means’ are valid, yet in themselves they are nothing – it is the recognition of one’s true nature that is necessary. Whatever brings that to fruition is valid and in the instant of the recognition, all the ‘means’ are consumed and forgotten as fuel for the spark of recognition.
Posted by Vlad on 07.06.09 10:57 am
Can people without understanding still be your friend, G? That might help. Just sayin’, or asking…
Posted by Friar Tuck on 07.06.09 2:56 pm
Kimo, you say (paraphrasing somewhat): “the sensation of me is never there” and yet “we choose to …. develop the idea of a seperate person.” and the answer is just to “stop.”
how does a nonexistent person choose to develop the idea of itself, and then make the choice to stop doing this? seriously. do you actually believe this convoluted crap?
nathan and ryba — not trying to be a prick here, but maybe tim’s ideas don’t sit well with you, because they conflict with your beliefs? sounds like you might actually believe that something called “oneness” exists, rather than seeing it as a concept which (like all concepts) has its opposite.
Posted by nathan on 07.06.09 6:00 pm
perhaps my post would have been better served(lobbed) as a question. and not a “which one is it man… both/and, either/or?”question…but rather, who is it that makes either postulation, or chooses to live as one or the other? his excitement is palpable and he had some interesting things to say…but again, he sounds like someone looking over the edge, saying…”Ahhh it’s all ONE fantastic! And the paradox is that you’re ONE and Separate!!”
just seems to leave out a crucial element…being that he is an “I” looking into “oneness” and still saying that the separation is real. obviously separation ‘seems’ real if there is a you and the this ‘other’ called ‘one’.
Mr. Tuck, Belief in “something” called ‘oneness’ just might be more ludicrous than living in some dream of separation, it’s just a supplement for saying ‘YOU’ found God….you know….spiritual egos can be the biggest/baddest…’thinking’ themselves to be the finders…”all that seeking had better pay off!!” kinda thing…
Posted by will on 07.06.09 6:08 pm
“do you actually believe this convoluted crap?”
very nicely put mr tuck – keep asking yourself just this ……
each time some opinion or other comes up concerning this or that.
Goes for all of us
Posted by gilbert on 07.06.09 6:16 pm
“Why are you so unhappy – isn’t it because everything you say, think and do is for yourself – and there isn’t one.” – quote from Wei Wu Wei.
‘We’ keep taking everything so ‘personal’, ‘we’ get upset and angry, offended and disturbed by words, and ideas. Who is that one who gets so hot under the collar?
Each thought is a seemingly separate ‘thing’ appearing. A stream of them appears to have meaning. In that stream there is a repeating reference point ‘me’. Every appearance, whether is it a thought, an idea, a concept or a pattern of energy called a ‘thing’ or the world ‘at large’ – they ALL appear and disappear in the SAME space-like awareness.
If you consider that ‘you’ have some special access to ‘how’ all these things appear, then you are dreaming. You can’t predict what your next thought will be, can you?
What is not of this presence right now? What is absent? Where do these thoughts come from? Where does any response come from? The concept of ‘another place’ is merely a concept.
There is only One Knowing happening. It is not a thought. Thought does NO make you MORE conscious. It may appear that the translations of the mind ‘become’ more sophisticated thus giving the idea that ‘I am now more conscious’. There are no gradients to consciousness – it is ALL consciousness. One Awareness.
This knowing is ALL INCLUSIVE and it is not an entity or an individual – this knowing is not ‘in’ the patterns that appear – the patterns appear in it.
That is the mystery for the mind. It is the infinite potency of this One TASTE, of immediate SEEING-KNOWING that eliminates the ‘personal concerns’ about ‘getting this’ or ‘not having it’. THAT knowing is already complete and understanding is actually totally wordless – silent understanding. The instant an insight happens, there are no words – it is simply naked knowing. The words arise after the insight as the mind translates it into an account of proceedings. Do you get what I am pointing at? Can the mind actually grasp it? Or is it simply known as a resonance in being?
Posted by billtys on 07.06.09 11:46 pm
The immediacy is undeniable.
It is ever present and has no duration.
If there is no duration then how can anything exist?
Yet in the immediacy everything, including time and space, exist.
Everything appears in the immediacy.
That means time and space is the immediacy.
The appearance is the immediacy.
The immediacy and the appearance are the same thing.
The form is the formless and the formless is the form.
This is all conceptual but undeniable! It’s fat, it’s real, it’s right here and now!
Tim’s rave is exactly this. The individual and the oneness are not separate. Expressing and getting excited about polarities is great.
The polarities are the immediacy.
Posted by tomvds on 07.07.09 12:36 am
What opposes this immediacy?
Posted by gilbert on 07.07.09 12:46 am
Nothing CAN oppose the immediacy. It is Non Dual.
Only the mind ‘appears’ as being dualistic. Nature is dualism…..day, night, winter, summer etc.
Thinking naturally follows the polar oscillation. Thought is a vibration and it cannot sit still. It has to move to its opposite or disappear.
I say ‘black’ and soon enough ‘white’ pops up spontaneously. You think you choose that?
Can you imagine that there is no ‘you’?
Imagination is not the real. Words are words and they are not the real.
What is this attachment to words, as if they were reality?
Find out. No one else can do it for you.
What you ARE is the immediacy. What you think you are is merely thoughts appearing.
Isn’t this so obvious?
Why is it said “You are not the body nor the mind?”
They, body and mind, are both appearances. Knowing is non dual and it NEVER EVER appears.
A thought pops up: Sometimes when a cart gets repeatedly stuck in the mud you just have to leave it there. It is so worn and tattered, it just isn’t worth the effort.
Let the horse go free, cut your loses and move on.
The fear of seeing that I am not the ‘me’ is just too much to bare for some – Let it be.
Posted by tomvds on 07.07.09 1:17 am
“Thought is a vibration and it cannot sit still. It has to move to its opposite or disappear.” Luckily if you consider the futility of the thoughts that pop-up, here and there; spoken or unspoken like “I am elite” for instance. Consider yourself being stuck in the mud with such a garbage
As tim so eloquently puts it:
“When you approach that mystery it’s all blah blah blah blah,…â€
Posted by tomvds on 07.07.09 1:45 am
Anyway; the coffee is good and strong and the bartender is very generous here in “the Prancing Pony Inn”
Posted by Morgan on 07.07.09 2:25 am
Thought is the greatest “bullshit artist” ever. It can spin the most ridiculous stories and make them seem completely believable. What it tries to do is breakdown what is perceived into bite sized chunks. By labeling and narrarating what arises, it thinks it understands but, as has been said on here a million times before – reality is undivided. Therefore, thought CANNOT describe the real. Looking directly at one’s experience, there are no demarcations between awareness and it’s content. There are simply no dividing lines to be found anywhere.
Posted by Ralph on 07.07.09 4:46 am
- ‘Paradox’ and ‘Confusion’ are the guards to the gateless gate.
… perhaps this is why the answer is not in the mind. The mind deals with ‘either/or’ but it gets messed up and lost when it deals with ‘both/and’.
How does Consciousness recognize itself ?……. is it not through the patterns that appear ? even though the patterns arise from Consciousness. This is where ‘aha! moments’ are born.
“You are not the body or the mind” , the body and mind are both appearances but is it not through the appearances that consciousness recognizes itself?
Paradox?, Confusion? yes indeed.
The answer is not in the mind but you use the mind to find this out. Yes, another paradox and on and on it goes..
The belly of the mind is never full. It will feed itself endless trying to get to what is already HERE. Can you see that ?
Posted by milton on 07.07.09 6:48 am
For me, it is indeed a mystery, chaos and confusion abound within pure, clear, naked awareness. I haven’t a clue as to what is going on… “oneness,” “personal,” just words floating around. Full stop and then just nothing… Is Tim worthy of the Nonduality imprimatur, or just another duality poser? It’s beyond my ken. How does one make such judgments? If there is no personal, not even a person, who do we judge? Not only that, who is judging? If all is oneness, then who really cares? Just enjoy the ride.
One thing I do know, however, damn good podcast!! Areti’s interview style and Gilbert’s mixing are out of sight, really coming together. A breath of fresh air is always nice.
I look forward to the upcoming animated feature starring the UGC heavyweights. Who will prevail, the relative or universal or even the absolute, will it be the gradual or the sudden? Will Gilbert be dethroned as the all time pointillist? Will the dark forces of duality elude the gargoyle sentries of nonduality, pass through the gateless gate and infiltrate the monolithic bastion of oneness…?
Posted by gilbert on 07.07.09 8:50 am
“If you’ve been there, you don’t need the words” – says Tim
What if you have been there all along and not realized it.
Maybe, just maybe, the words spoken or written help to spark off that recognition. They may simply cut through the illusion of separateness.
It sure looks that way from HERE.
Innately we all KNOW what needs to be known but it is exceedingly simple….and we pass over it consistently, because it is too simple.
Better put, we all don’t know it, the KNOWING knows ‘we all’.
‘The Single Seed’ contains the whole tree and thousands upon thousands of trees, to cover the Earth.
The instant of recognition of one’s true nature is simply SEEING-KNOWING what is.
The ‘seed’ and its potentiality for everyone is that this seeing, this knowing is happening right NOW.
How the seed germinates has an infinite variability to it but all it needs is a spark of recognition – wordless, silent understanding.
Where are you seeing from?
Posted by billtys on 07.07.09 10:34 am
“What opposes this immediacy?” (tomvds above)
There is no separation between the immediacy and the appearing polarities.
What can oppose Oneness?
Posted by billtys on 07.07.09 10:47 am
The immediacy is undeniable…it just is…it just arises, it just appears, it is there right now as these words are being belted out.
Has anything ever appeared outside of this immediacy?
The immediacy has no duration…yet contains these words being typed…
The immedicay has no form…yet contains the laptop…
The immediacy has no qualities at all… yet everything appears in IT.
There is no separation between the appearance and the immediacy.
The words are conceptual…the immediacy is undeniable.
Posted by gilbert on 07.07.09 10:44 pm
The immediacy NEVER arises. It IS.
It is ‘hiding’ in everything as the unseen and as the seen, prior to any ‘seer’
The electrons that form these letters on this screen are regenerated beyond the ability of ‘perceptions’- in this immediacy. The traces of this movement is perceived.
The impressions register in this immediacy, the immediacy of this ever-present knowing.
That is all there is and all there ever is. There is NO separation. There is a subtle spontaneous joy in the knowing of this – yet it is not personal – even though it may well ‘appear’ as being personal.
Even the thoughts about this right now, or about anything at all, are merely appearances in this ‘first and only instant’, this immediacy.
What you are is THAT….with the ‘you’ or without the ‘you’ – it makes NO DIFFERENCE.
Who loves? Who hates? Who cares?
Posted by Ralph on 07.08.09 6:52 am
I love, I hate, I care.
Is it possible that this ‘I’ plays all the roles in separation ?
Don’t make the nothingness into nothing. who you are is ALL of it.
… it’s all about LOVE… can you feel it ?
Posted by gilbert on 07.08.09 9:48 am
‘I’ is a word – it has no power to ‘do’ anything at all. Belief that it does ’causes’ much trouble. For whom?
It IS all Love……..it is not ‘about’ love.
Who is it about love for? Who can feel it?
When you stop philosophizing about things that you know nothing about, love may reveal itself and speechlessness may happen.
The love that ‘people’ talk about is dualistic ‘love-hate’ – relationship.
‘People’ FALL in love. ‘People’ talk a lot of nonsense about love. The word is used far too often without any true understanding. If you ‘think’ you know what love is, think again.
Love is light, light is energy – self expressing, prior to the patterns that are expressed.
The shadow of a tree is not the tree.
The image of your self is NOT what you truly are.
Image and imagination (image-ination) is light upon the ‘screen’. The characters in the movie on the screen have no volition to choose what will happen in the movie.
The peace beyond understanding does not belong to the engagement with the story of me.
Using the word ‘love’ is most often not useful because it ‘brings’ misunderstanding.
If you truly knew what love is, you would rarely use the word. If there is offense taken over these few words about love, then the love you speak of is fictional, imagination.
There is no argument in…. LOVE.
Posted by Morgan on 07.08.09 10:08 am
Also, there is no separation so why talk about it? This reality of wholeness can be called love.
Posted by Ralph on 07.08.09 10:36 am
“I want to know what love is….I want you to show me” . (just kidding, I couldn’t resist)
When one ‘feels’ love .. it is not fabricated, fictional or imagined … it is the true expression of your true nature. This ‘feeling’ cannot be expressed in words…just as your true nature cannot be expressed in words. Love also expresses itself through the patterns that are expressed.
… sometmes, it appears that this ‘love’ you speak of comes across as ‘nothingness’ which is full of nothing. If this is love, then I want no part of it.. I’ll stay in my little dream.
Back to you, Gilbert.
Posted by Morgan on 07.08.09 11:20 am
It’s full because it’s empty. The dream isn’t “your” dream, the “you” IS the dream.
Posted by Ralph on 07.08.09 11:35 am
I prefer this Nisargadatta quote:
“Love says “I am everything”. Wisdom says “I am nothing”. Between the two, my life flows. Since at any point of time and space I can be both the subject and the object of experience, I express it by saying that I am both, and neither, and beyond both.”
Posted by Morgan on 07.08.09 12:20 pm
Yeah, that’s a good’n. Of course there really isn’t a subject and an object of experience, nor is there time and space. It’s one unbroken whole.
Posted by billtys on 07.08.09 12:30 pm
Love, love, love…love is all you need!
It is all appearance…it is Maya…that which is not!
The immediacy has no duration…how can anything exist?
Posted by suki on 07.08.09 12:31 pm
‘You know that you are! and this cannot be denied’ – paraphrasing ‘Bob’.
This is essential knowing.
There is nothing beyond this knowing.
If there is?
It will be within the knowing.
The knowing has no parameters
Empirical knowledge is subject to change and modification.
The context that it appears in is not subject to change or modification.
And if I may elaborate, it is not subject to time or space ( which only appear to exist in the knowing!)
The knowing is neither subject or object.
in other words this is all there is:)
All is well, love suki
Posted by Morgan on 07.08.09 1:46 pm
Well put. All is well. PS – Gilbert or Areti, if you’re doing a show of “regulars” I’d like to hear Suki interviewed.
Posted by gilbert on 07.08.09 2:00 pm
Why talk about separation? Does it give it any validity to talk about it? Does it tempt the mind to believe in it more? Most comments are attempts to justify a ‘personal’ line drawn in the imagination, a boundary between ‘me’ and ‘not me’.
There is a saying in an organization for people who live with a ‘substance addict’.
“Living with an ‘addict’ is like living with an Elephant in the house and no one mentions it”.
If you have an elephant living in your house and no one talks about it – isn’t the silence just an avoidance of a ‘problem’. Especially if the Elephant is wrecking the whole house, shitting all over the place and not one chair still survives intact. Do we all stand around talking about the weather?
Once it is known that there is no separation the boundary line dissolves into the background. There is no line to cross. Belief patterns can dissolve if they get exposed.
Pretending they do not matter is ignorance. The UGC is about exposing that ignorance – that ignoring of our true nature. It is all valid.
Posted by Morgan on 07.08.09 3:55 pm
Is separation real? Is it a “thing” that can be described? It’s just an idea, right? – imagination. A unicorn is an imaginary creature. We could talk about one for apparent years on end, describing every possible detail but, in the end, we would have just wasted alot of time and energy. Why not just state up front – “separation isn’t real”? As you have been known to say – “There is no duality in non duality”
I think talking about some things gives creedence to the idea that they exist. “Body” and “mind” are good examples that seem to point to “things” apart from being. Of course, as functional words there is no problem (“I hurt my body”) but when it is believed that they refer to separate objects it seems to cause some confusion – at least that was my experience.
Posted by gilbert on 07.08.09 4:45 pm
“That was my experience” …..then why talk about what WAS your experience?
Do YOU have an experience right NOW?
If we were to speak in an absolute sense and avoid all the dualistic inferences, we would have nothing much to say at all. Some actually don’t speak at all ‘after’ realization. ‘We’ talk and write about this, in the seeming ‘realm’ of helping others, even though it is known that there are no ‘others’ at all. Direct pointing as a main meal is indigestible. The pointer that ‘works’ catches one by surprise, it stops the mind in full flight.
There are certain things that are never spoken about because the mind of habit will fortify itself with that information and thus ‘create’ an ‘effective’ barrier. I see this so often with ‘seekers’ – they learn the language and it is almost painful to hear ‘pointers’ being thrown around like the latest slogan for a washing up detergent. Life goes on in exactly the same way. At first there is a concern for others but it wears off. Intelligence is ‘creating’ the whole manifestation just as it is. It is actually perfect just as it is. Stirring up the crap and swishing it to one side can give clear insights into one’s own nature. Those who get caught in the crap have no choice. They find what they need when it is necessary.
Most only find it in the last minutes of life. It doesn’t have to be that way.
Posted by kale on 07.08.09 10:06 pm
The ‘person’ trying to be a ‘non-person’…fails miserably at every attempt…
Posted by milton on 07.08.09 11:43 pm
Invalidating others and justifying ourselves serves to strengthen the bars of our conceptual cages, call it caginess if you like. Who wants a stronger cage?
Posted by gilbert on 07.08.09 11:55 pm
There is no ‘person’. No person with any power to try anything at all.
It is all ‘in the appearance’ of things.
Double the trouble with miserable concepts or psychological tricks. But there is no escaping the fact that there is no one in the clear and present awareness – and that is very obvious. But as soon as you think about being a ‘person’ it appears, yet you cannot actually see it or grasp it. It is an ephemeral appearance. Why is it so difficult to get this across? Because the believed in ‘person’ relies on it not being discovered for what it is.
This is such an uncommon factor to speak about, it is no wonder so many get hot under the collar about it. It is all belief. Belief is not the actual.
It is exceedingly simple and that is why everyone misses it.
That quote from Wei Wu Wei again, says it clearly:
“Why are you so unhappy? Isn’t it because 99.999% of everything you think, say a do, is for your self – and there isn’t one”.
Now, I am not talking crap here. I know many so-called individuals who have realized this and I recognize that they have actually seen through the ‘me’. It doesn’t mean that they become freaks or that they must ‘teach’ this.
There is an obvious ease of being about them. All it took was some genuine investigation into ‘their own consciousness’. Have you taken the advice yet?
Posted by Don Cornelius on 07.09.09 1:09 am
Gilbert, you’re blowing my head clean off the skull. Sorry to be (have played) the elephant role shitting all over the site.
It’s like there’s a proverbial huge red button that you keep slamming over and over and over again. Man, I’m a dullard. Not sure if I need to up the meds or just get off them altogether.
Anyway, all this nonsense needs to be exposed. Each case is unique in the appearnce, correct?
Posted by Morgan on 07.09.09 1:20 am
I understand what you’re saying “Direct pointing as a meal is indigestable” but at least it’s an accurate menu. Whatever pointers resonate are OK. Of course none of it is really neccessary as oneness is already the case.
The more concepts that get thrown around, the more confusing it all becomes. You’ve got lots of “teachers” who put out lots of conceptual models for the imaginary seeker and it leads to more belief that there are separate “things”. I guess, as you’ve said before, thought/words can NEVER DESCRIBE ANYTHING REAL, because every word mentions a part and what is is not apart but wholeness. In this, concepts are only useful to remove other ideas (Like Ramana said “use a thorn to remove a thorn and then throw both away.”)
Posted by gilbert on 07.09.09 3:06 am
Yes. Each case is unique in the appearance – in Essence it is One.
No atom can be in the same place as another atom, so to speak. Nothing can be removed or put into THAT. It is One Pattern, infinitely beyond comprehension.
This moment is unique – it is ACTUALLY self-realizing awareness JUST AS IT IS.
Who can truly doubt their own uniqueness in this moment?
The thing is, for those who are not clear, those who have confusion, there needs to be some clear directives. By habit everything is almost instantly referred to the ‘me of memory’ and the open view is infested by that believed in ‘entity’.
This is why it is pointed out that there is NO answer in the mind. Everyone hears that and almost instantly has an opinion on it, which is nothing but more conceptualizing.
The pointing is freshly presented in so many ways. No one can say HOW the recognition will come for another or for themselves. It is ALWAYS unexpected.
Once it has ‘happened’ the habits of ‘me’ don’t simply disappear. They continue to arise and in each moment they need to be seen for what they are. Talking about this is not so helpful because it leads to imagination for those who are still obsessed with ‘seeking’.
First of all they can’t BELIEVE that this is a ‘simple matter’. They are convinced it is complex and difficult, because they have probably spent years or decades on it.
They also may believe that they have made certain ‘progress’ and there is an investment of belief in that ‘self-image’, which is nothing but an image, ‘me’.
Tim is not absolutely clear in the way he expresses things (who is?) and there are certain points where one could pull it apart and reveal major errors. But who is absolutely clear in their expressions on this? I am not singling out Tim here. Most of the speaker on our programs can be included in that. Tim has ‘a good energy’ for many and some of his expression is spot on, as I see it.
One cannot simply hang onto a bunch of ideas about oneness and expect that to solve ‘the problem of separation’ and the ‘me’, who apparently feels separate.
I am well aware that a lot of my comments, either go over the heads of readers or that some get angry and consider myself to be arrogant or mean spirited or whatever it may be. I don’t care. There are a few who do actually resonate with the pointing. The ‘pointing’ only is effective when it is truly ‘heard’.
Keep coming back for more. As I have said many times, ‘It sinks in’. After about 25 years of studying so-called spiritual teachings in a direct manner I finally came across Bob Adamson. Bob is an exceptionally clear speaker on this ‘subject’. As soon as I heard his talk, there was an immediate ‘response’ although I did not fully recognize the far reaching implications of it at first, probably because it (was) is so unique and engaging. Something ‘grabbed me’ and wouldn’t let go – if I can put it like that.
It was like the clouds broke and the light began to shine through and reveal ‘what is’. Years of conceptualizing about it all was like a cloud bank, thick and heavy, with ‘me’ in the middle of it.
As it broke through there wasn’t all that much light at first and ‘the cloud banks’ were still thick. But that opening grew and more light shone and that continued (for a year or two) until ‘the sky’ was open and clear.
All doubts vanished and all concepts are now known to be concepts. Without a ‘me’ for them to get attached to, they simple appear and disappear. Some are useful and some or useless. Who cares?
Innately we all have the ability to SEE and KNOW, yet it is not personal.
‘We’ in our ignorance, take everything ‘personally’ and wonder why we don’t get the message – or ‘we’ believe we have already ‘got it’ and yet the beliefs still twist our minds into gross shapes. There is a lot of competitive activity in the Non Duality ‘game’. And many so-called ‘teachers’ are the worst offenders. It is a complete joke.
There is no point in pretending to ‘have attained anything’ regarding this.
Seeing-knowing is ever fresh.
The UGC is ‘vehicle’ for ‘pointing’……available to everyone who wants it.
This is how intelligence has arranged things ‘here’. I know it is a ‘good thing’ and kind of rare. The interviews with a few of those who make comments will be of great interest to many I am sure. That will be the next program and if there is enough material, it may make several programs. We shall see. Warm regards – Gilbert.
Posted by gilbert on 07.09.09 12:13 pm
Notice: Non Duality Press in the UK are looking for someone with sound recording experience, amateur or professional, to record meetings with Jeff Foster or Richard Sylvester this year. If you are enthusiastic and can advise on, or provide, your own recording equipment Julian of NDP would be very keen to hear from you – please contact Julian through their website contact details if this interests you.
Posted by gilbert on 07.09.09 2:42 pm
The main point that seems to be missed is: You cannot ‘think’ your way out of the conundrum. More thought will not help, no matter how elucidating it may appear to be.
They are not your thoughts anyway. Thoughts simply appear on consciousness. There is no ‘owner’ of any thought. Belief in the ‘owner’ of thoughts is just another thought appearing…. and believed in automatically. This automatic mechanism needs to be explored thoroughly, first with the apparent aid of thought (mind) and so…..then the subtle recognition can ‘happen’. It can ‘happen’ at any moment because it in not conditioned by the past. The ‘person’ seeking is nothing but the ‘past’, looking for something that was never lost.
It may seem to be impossible that what you are seeking is already HERE. It is simply that the search is the problem. Whatever pure faculty that is being ‘used’ to make the investigation is THAT which is being sort. Understanding is not in the ‘thinking mind’ – it is NON conceptual. THAT which is already SEEING-KNOWING. For the ‘thinking mind’ this is totally unacceptable and that is why everyone misses it. The fact is that without the seeing-knowing, nothing of anything could appear to take place. In the CORE of this seeing-knowing, nothing is actually happening. It has been called the peace that passeth (beyond) ALL understanding (thinking mind). No one can take you there. Why? Because you are already THAT. It is merely ideas and belief that suggest that it is otherwise.
Got it?
Posted by dan on 07.09.09 11:41 pm
It is SO simple it doesn’t even have room for ‘You’! The cup is full of THIS already. No room left for any extraneous entities. Sorry. It is full. And this fullness is also emptiness. The fullness and emptiness are not two separate things that occur at different stretches of time. They are two words that point at the very same ‘thing’. This.
The very substance of WHAT IS, is WHAT IS.
Not two.
Posted by gilbert on 07.10.09 12:08 am
“You are really Pure Consciousness by nature. Do not be small-minded.
You are unconditioned, immutable, formless, of cool disposition, of unfathomable intelligence, and unperturbed.”
- from Ashtavakra (a physically deformed sage of ‘Advaita’) – Thanks to Sid who sent me the passage containing this.
Posted by Steve on 07.10.09 2:57 am
The carnal mind or time bound mind or sinful mind or small mind or the me, whatever one wants to call it, does not know that it does not exist.
Editor: It is a sin to mention sin here. OK.
Posted by gilbert on 07.10.09 8:38 am
There is only One Seeing happening. One Knowing happening. The ‘me’ (mind) sees nothing, knows nothing – it is like a mechanical wind up clock. It is a concept.
A concept is ephemeral and has no cogs or wheels, other than conceptual ones.
Two concepts can never merge into one concept. They simply disappear and are replaced by the next.
The Life that animates everything that appears, is One LIFE – neither the body nor ‘person’ cannot ‘do’ anything without that life essence.
Some civilizations worshiped the Sun. (No Sun, no planet, no civilization).
If you must worship some ‘thing’, worship that Life Essence. If the activity is totally genuine, the ‘me’ will shrivel up and die from lack of energy.
There is only One Seeing-Knowing happening. It MUST be what you ARE – not what you ‘think’ you are.
Posted by Morgan on 07.10.09 12:00 pm
There is no “me”. As Gilbert pointed out – it’s only a concept. When thought’s fabrications are no longer believed in then what is present is obvious. Only being is real and it is undivided. Thoughts and words only speak of fragments, reality is whole – unbroken. Any breaking down of things conceptually is only going to make it seem more confusing than it is (that’s why Bob, John Wheeler, Gilbert, et all say “leave the mind alone”). Where there is awareness (always “here”), I AM.
Posted by Jacob ,Isle of wight. u.k on 07.10.09 9:54 pm
Can you say a bit more about exploring the owner of thought with the apparent aid of thought (mind) thanks Gilbert love Jacob
Posted by gilbert on 07.11.09 12:01 am
The thoughts appear spontaneously. You have no idea about what thought will come next. Any idea about such an event is a thought and the content of the thought spontaneously appears. The apparent ‘owner’ of the thought is simply another thought which arises because the first thought is referred to the ‘me of memory’. This habit is so long standing we never question it. “Of course they are my thoughts”. “They are not your thoughts”. In the questioning of it all, thoughts come up, as IF it is ‘I’ that is doing the questioning of my own thoughts etc.
The ‘thinker’ is simply another thought. The intelligence that you are is not the ‘me’ or a thought. When this is recognized, there is a revelation that cannot be described easily – or at all. The impotency of mind is stilled.
In a way it is better not to describe it. Any description is not the thing being described.
All I will say is that you will know beyond a shadow of doubt that you are not what you have believed yourself to be. If pressed to say anything: The mind is quiet and the seeing is crystal clear. These qualities are ‘of’ our true nature. It is present right now but it is most usually overlooked.
Posted by milton on 07.11.09 1:25 am
Released from concepts why not soar in unbounded space?
Posted by dan on 07.11.09 2:28 am
yeah, that is a real BIG BLOW: when it is seen that the one questioning the thoughts is as much a part of the thought-mechanism itself. The questioner is part of the swirling movement of thoughts and can never step ‘outside’ of the situation and look ‘in’ and figure it all out.
It is similar to when people first started to conduct quantum physics experiments. The scientists found out that the person viewing (or conducting) the experiment is as much an integral part of the experiment itself and has to be considered into the ‘equation’. How can an experiment be observed without any observer? And, they are NOT TWO. Its when science hits a brick wall.
not 2
Posted by gilbert on 07.11.09 2:43 am
A thought cannot see or know anything. Thoughts appear in the seeing-knowing.
There is no ‘entity’ apart from thought.
Seeing is happening. Knowing is happening. This cannot be negated.
If you truly see that you cannot be that thought called ‘me’ which cannot see or know….then you must be the seeing, the knowing which is formless.
You are THAT – one without a second.
Posted by wenotwo on 07.11.09 3:15 am
“then you must be the seeing, the knowing which is formless.”
OK, We must all be that you say. But how to circumvent the carnal mind?
Posted by gilbert on 07.11.09 3:45 am
What vehicle will you use to circumvent the carnal mind? What form?
Everything appear in the seeing.
Know yourself as the formless nature – and then see what carnal mind there is to circumvent.
A mouse on a wheel will tire eventually. It may imagine that it is escaping but it isn’t going anywhere.
Do not identify yourself with the limited mind.
It isn’t a matter of thinking – it is pure seeing-knowing.
Posted by milton on 07.11.09 3:52 am
The heart sings a lovely song, why not listen? Why not let go, cling to nothing, and sink into the forever now, and watch the clouds of words swirl away, leaving only the open sky?
Posted by wenotwo on 07.11.09 4:10 am
“One cloud is enough to eclipse all the sun.” – Thomas Fuller
Posted by Stephen Met on 07.11.09 4:25 am
Very nice Milton
Posted by gilbert on 07.11.09 8:49 am
“Thou ought to ignore some quotes of Thomas Fuller”. Since the Sun makes the very perception of them possible, what has ever been obscured, in truth?
A cloud comes and goes and can only cast a shadow – or block the rays casting a small and insignificant shadow in the vast scheme of things.
Posted by Don Cornelius on 07.11.09 1:11 pm
I keep reading, hoping there’s something I’ll get. Afterall the language says there’s something for someone to see for themselves.
But it’s seemingly just the awareness that registers all activity. So there’s apparently no hope for goodies — AND it can’t be grasped.
There’s enlightenment in this? Not like I’d know enlightenment if it jumped up and bit me on the sac…
Thanks for the site though.
Posted by Morgan on 07.11.09 2:18 pm
There is noone to see or get anything, only seeing. You are that.
Posted by gilbert on 07.11.09 2:30 pm
Enlightenment is a word. I prefer to take the fantasy out of it by pointing out that the light by which you see and know is nothing less than what everyone calls ‘enlightenment’. Everyone ‘has’ it and no one has it.
It is BEING. Everything is BEING. Since everything is BEING, what distinction can be made that ‘this one’ is more enlightened than that one.
Everything is upside down. Those who say that they are enlightened are playing ego games. Those who do not mention enlightenment unless it is necessary are not playing games with ‘seekers’. In the many years I have known Bob Adamson, I have never heard him tell anyone or imply to anyone that he is enlightened. In fact his behavior is extremely ordinary with no ‘airs’ of being special at all.
You can hang around a glorified guru for a life time waiting for the ‘grace of the guru’ to trick your mind into believing that enlightenment has happened.
The introduction to your own true nature is through BEING what you are. It is NEVER about ‘becoming’ anything other than what you ARE.
Bees drown in honey just as seekers paddle around in circles for a seeming eternity or drown in their adorable charismatic guru bullshit.
It is quite obvious that most gurus KEEP the seeker ‘on the path’ through erroneous implications about a ‘future time’. It is good business.
Why free them, when you can make a good livin’ from dem dare seekers? You may not have noticed but it is a multi-million dollar industry.
Some of the most direct pointing is offered right here for free – yet few want it – it seems that most would rather pretend to be on the ‘progressive path’ no matter how frustrating it is, than to kick those old haggard beliefs ‘out the back door’.
We at the UGC have thrust a ‘chop stick’ into the honey jar so that bullshit soaked bees can crawl out of that jar of frustration and endless seeking.
Take it or leave it, it is up to you.
It doesn’t really matter because you were never truly bound in the first instance.
Posted by Jacob ,Isle of wight. u.k on 07.11.09 6:57 pm
thanks Gilbert and amegos, love Jacob x
Posted by wenotwo on 07.11.09 7:15 pm
“Thou ought to ignore some quotes of Thomas Fullerâ€.
Thank you that resonated! Who’s that quote from?
I love this virtual Satsang, thx
Editor: It is a Gilbert quote.
Posted by gilbert on 07.12.09 1:16 pm
There is nothing NEW and nothing OLD about Non Duality. There is NO duality in Non Duality. There is no Traditional Advaita and NO Neo-Advaita – such things are mind projections only. If your career depends on such beliefs, then the revelation of Non Duality will evade you. There are NO experts on Non Duality – they are merely ‘legends in their own lunchtime’.
‘People’ have pre-conceived ideas about HOW ‘non duality’ should appear to be or be presented. It appears that a select few ‘dictate’ the precedents and hold some sort of authority over the ‘majority’.
However it appears – It is ALL THAT. So, ‘Each moment’ is a unique expression of THAT.
Many erroneous beliefs get exposed once we truly start to resonate with what is ‘real’ in ‘our selves’.
The only value any pointer has is in the ‘moment’ of recognition.
There is no point in pretending to ‘know’ anything.
Knowing is present – it MUST be here, complete and uninterrupted. It does not belong to a ‘person’.
‘I have witnessed’ the message being received (in others) over and over many times, since this Urban Guru Cafe opened.
It is a truly wondrous thing to see and know. One factor that prevails – it is everyone’s RIGHT to be presented with some clear ‘pointing’ or some clear directives – to discover their own true identity.
In contrast to the positive aspects of this, there is also a lot of ‘resistance’ to the direct message – because everyone has been convinced by ‘teachers’ and ‘gurus’ that there is some sort of ‘progressive work’ to be ‘done’ and ‘it isn’t easy to get this’ – ad infinitum – ad nausea.
The intimacy of true recognition arises in the core of being. It is what you truly ARE that responds to the clear message. The only way to get past the ‘sentry guards of the mind’ is through ‘resonance in being’.
The ‘self-image’ is rendered passive and one KNOWS that ‘I am not an image’.
The erroneous conditions that ‘teachers and gurus’ try to impose upon seekers is just built on beliefs. Belief is NOT the actual.
You must find your own authenticity – you own actuality in this ever present moment.
Once the resonance is active, stay with it, no matter what.
This may appear to be a revolution because everything you have been taught and convinced of is laid to rest. Anything that has been acquired can be lost.
Anything that one gains will be lost. What you truly are has ALWAYS been complete – nothing was ever added to it or taken away or lost.
BEING IS.
There is NO becoming.
Posted by Randall Friend on 07.12.09 4:35 pm
THIS, right here and now, is IT. THIS is what is being sought after. THIS is all there ever is. Just THIS and nothing else.
Advaita isn’t about ME finding the answer. Advaita means not-two – there is no separation – NO separate ME who CAN find the answer.
Seeking, then, is absolutely overlooking THIS – it is the absolute assumption that THIS is NOT IT. It is the assumption, the HOPE, that something will as come, something will happen – that YOU will BECOME something different. Ignoring the FACT that the individual is already false, we march on as the individual seeking the end of the individual.
If THIS is IT, then what-you-are MUST ALREADY BE what you are seeking. What-you-are MUST – ALREADY – be THAT.
So instead of trying to figure out advaita pointers, so that something will “click” in the future, find out what-you are RIGHT NOW.
This shines a spotlight on the assumptions or translations right this very instant. THAT is what needs to be investigated.
The assumption is that YOU are separate, and then YOU are seeking. This is ALREADY false. So there is no use in going any further.
YOU are not a separate individual, who is then seeking, analyzing pointers, reading blogs or websites or books, who may then find enlightenment. The very root of this process is false – so all that comes after is equally false.
THIS, right here and now, is Advaita – without moving an inch, before the next thought, before the next attempt at figuring it out. THIS is already Nondual Reality. Just THIS, right here and now.
So where can we go? What can we do? What can possibly happen to make THIS any different? No matter what THIS might be, it’s never anything but THIS.
Therefore the YOU you’ve taken yourself to be, the separate individual, the ME, is only an assumption, a translation. THIS is taken to be ME-SEEING. And then off into the abstractions and stories we go…
The ME is an appearance, an idea, a thought/story, an identification with objects – and that appearance is THIS also. So there isn’t anything WRONG with the idea of ME, only it’s just an idea – it’s not absolute reality. SEE that it’s only an idea.
Absolute reality is just THIS – and reality isn’t broken up into parts and pieces, into a ME-SEEING-WORLD. That is just a template or translation, which, when believed in, creates the idea that YOU must seek the answer.
You ARE the answer already.
ME-SEEING-WORLD is a false template through which the search is undertaken. There is only pure SEEING/BEING. Your true nature is already fully present and shining right here and now, without ever reading any “pointers”.
Posted by Ron Marson on 07.12.09 5:34 pm
Non-conceptual being — knowing I am, prior to any mental translation of this knowing — might be one way to describe the ‘baseline being’ of all sentient beings.
It doesn’t seem possible that there is a spectrum of being beyond baseline. Once being is translated onto a scale of experience, has it not ‘changed phase’ into some sort of becoming?
‘My problem’ seems to manifest with belief in a story that ‘my mind’ won’t let baseline being be, without ceaselessly trying to find some meaning in ‘it’. But there doesn’t seem to be any! This seems hard for mind to tolerate, yet easy for being. Being has no meaning. But ‘it’ is not meaningless either!
Baseline being seems like an ancient way of living (to the mind), before thought layered over the subtlety of being with what it thinks being means. Truth is, I don’t know what being is, never did, never will. Yet I am.
When the mind comes to understand its limitation in this regard, this same old world suddenly and unexpectedly looks different.
Posted by billtys on 07.12.09 5:38 pm
Thank you Randall.
I have read your words several times to enjoy the clarity…
“I am THAT by which I know I AM” (Sri Nis. quote)
Posted by gilbert on 07.12.09 7:01 pm
These programs on Tim have a little more ‘bait on the hook’ than the usual programs and it has attracted a few more ‘fish’ from ‘other ponds’.
‘We’ reveal the hooks and remove the bait and a few fish turn into ‘eagles’ soring in the open sky. What makes us short sighted is belief in erroneous ideas about ourselves. Yes, I am speaking in riddles but you get the gist of what I am saying.
The mind must be understood – that is all. It is the belief in being a conceptual being in the mind that is the problem.
Now, in the SEEING, this pure seeing happening right now, there is no entity at all. Recognize that. Simply recognize that any idea of an ‘entity’ having any being whatsoever is simply a concept appearing, a believed in concept. In looking right now, it will be seen that there is no entity there. You may catch the ‘tail of the rat’ disappearing, a flicker of something that cannot remain once you truly start to investigate. If there is an idea of an entity there, then remove the belief and where is the ‘entity’?
Nothing can exist without energy. Bring the energy of belief back to the actuality of simply being and nothing more than this simplicity of being presence. This is not a concept. One needs only recognize this clearly and belief will subside naturally. The energy will stay with the seeing-knowing.
The mind is restless by nature and it will continue to vibrate into ideas and concepts. But once you KNOW that these concepts that appear are merely concepts AND that they all disappear – the KNOWING is that what I am remains throughout all these appearances and disappearances. Indescribable – what you are can not be described successfully.
You KNOW that you ARE. It is as simple as THAT.
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.12.09 11:05 pm
I just finished running and was in the process of answering an email from Areti–and noticed a blood vessel on my ankle beating in rhythm. I chuckled composing my thoughts for the email while contemplating my heartbeat–this separate entity that many believe in must be a truly amazing fellow–just to “be the thinker” and to “beat the heart on my own” is much more spectacular and complex than a guy spinning plates on his nose and fingers while playing the drums at the same time. Signposts such as this pointing to “no separate character at home” are all around us if we look with an open mind at the obvious.
Posted by wenotwo on 07.13.09 3:02 am
I’m guessing it just might all be THAT then, like for sure totally.
Posted by wenotwo on 07.13.09 5:13 am
I love this pointing-ism; It points and negates at the same time.
First it says: “little of you value my pure pointing” “You take it for granted” ” It’s a multi-million dollar business. You pay gurus that keep you on the threadmill but you don’t pay me, stupid”,….
Then it says: “There is no one here to take credit”, “The message is freely offered” ,”No donation is necessary” ,” There is no one here”,…
I guess this is the mind’s biased version of “Don’t let your right hand know, what your left hand is doing”
So it seems the expert advaitic pointillist has secured himself through an ingenious roccade of ‘punishing and absolving (himself)’, pointing (to himself and his achievement) and negating (there’s no-one here’); So basically, anything goes; It’s the Ultimate ticket out of jail !!! Anything and everything can be justified through this masterful but deceitful Self-Absolution which is Self-aggrandizement.
Editor: Not point in being bitter about it. It all serves to expose ‘ego’. If you can’t recognize it in yourself, then have a look at mine. It doesn’t exist, just like yours.
Posted by Jacob ,Isle of wight. u.k on 07.13.09 5:56 am
when being is seen thoght jumps in after a few seconds to sabatage it it seems impossibel to stay with it . yeah I know its allways here yet it seems hard to stay with the presence without thought (mind) coming in and not letting it stay long enough to reqognize. love Jacob
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.13.09 6:00 am
We No 2: You’ve seen the inconsistencies in teaching non-duality when non-duality is all there is. My advice though is to get a good laugh out of this once the story has been seen through. My experience is that “people” get halfway on this and then fall into two camps: 1) those who have had spiritual experiences and can’t lay those aside to see what was always present to even have those experiences, and 2) those who got a glimpse of this by surprise and just couldn’t give it up (tigers mouth) and couldn’t see through the story fully and doubt that it’s possible–and now they heckle those who are trying to share with glib remarks such as “how can anyone teach this since there’s nobody there”.
Yes granted, you are correct. But does this knowledge help the mocker? You (you proper) won’t be better off once this is seen because your true nature never appeared to be improved or to be detracted from.
The stories can go on forever for the life of the organism and it won’t be any better or worse for you. All of the teachings are and always have been just an appearance and tons of concepts appearing in what you are. The disappearance of the story has a way of occurring though as it is seen that the idea was only ever a phantom hiding away in thoughts.
Then (please excuse the subtle concept here of becoming in time), you can laugh out loud about the ridiculousness of it all.
Posted by Ralph on 07.13.09 8:23 am
~ When I look back on all the worries I remember the story of the old man who said on his deathbed that he had a lot of trouble in his life, most of which never happened. ~
- Winston Churchill
Posted by Tom Allen on 07.13.09 9:03 am
It is pretty hard to see imagination AS imagination. Someone has said–lots of someones–that the present moment is God.So is everything else that is real.
Posted by Morgan on 07.13.09 11:04 am
Hey Jacob – not sure if it’s helpful but thoughts and everything else arise in presence. Presence doesn’t disappear when thinking happens. You can’t make thinking stop because the “you” that would do it is just a concept. If you see that it’s not who you are then you don’t really care what it does and you know that whatever arises is OK because it doesn’t tarnish being. This doesn’t mean that you don’t mind if you get hit by a car or if someone punches your mom, it just means that if situations like that happen, they’ll be dealt with intelligently and then be done with.
Tom, if you see that thoughts can never describe reality then you won’t get tangled up in any of the stories that come up.
Posted by gilbert on 07.13.09 12:07 pm
It is all paradoxical so long as there is a biased holding on to mind content going on. It is easy to see it in ‘another’ but it must be seen in yourself clearly before it will dissolve its hold over you. All manner of means of ‘bringing about’ a recognition are valid. Recognition is not the ‘thinking’ about something. The ONLY value of the ‘means’ is in the ACTUAL recognition and once it ‘happens’ the ‘means’ are rendered inert. Its ‘use’ is over.
It is ALL THAT appearing as everything. Whether is it Jimi Hendrix chewing on his guitar strings or a hobo whistling as he walks down the street. Whether it is a cat pissing in the garden or an ant crawling up your leg. It is ALL THAT. Call it Consciousness or whatever you want to call it. It is the Ever Fresh Unique Expression of The One Essence.
In some native tribes of America, children were not forced to ‘become’ a hunter or a bow maker or whatever. Whichever child was naturally drawn to watch the arrow maker or the bow maker at work would be allowed to observe. If the interest continued, the child would naturally become an Arrow maker, a Bow maker or whatever the case may be.
The art or craft was learned by silent observation and trial and error.
A keen interest, naturally present with an open mind makes all the difference.
In my youth, maybe 6 years old, I used to sit on the floor and watch my grandmother rocking in a rocking chair. She would crochet extremely intricate table cloths in fine white cotton and a small hooked wooden needle. The cloths were around three feet square usually. The details of the pattern were truly exquisite. It would take months to finish one cloth. Then she would give it away to someone and start another one, a different pattern. I can’t remember any time when she consulted a book or design plan. I have one of these cloths, so, my memory is not playing tricks on me. I did not become a cloth maker but there was something that was learned from such observing.
There is no one that achieves anything and each moment is fresh. Each action requires some attention and it is naturally provided – but not by any ‘me’.
As the Buddha is reported to have said: “Events happen – deeds are done – there is no individual doer thereof”.
Squeaky clean spiritual heroes are unbelievable. The paradox of being caught between being and personality is an ‘uncomfortable place to be’. The paradox must be resolved by your own self – and yet there isn’t one. Being told there isn’t one is one thing – SEEING it as reality is the end of internal conflict over identity.
The end of that conflict appears to be ‘individual’ – yet the resonance in being (is universal) and can spill over and through ‘others’ dissolving the paradox.
The resistance to such an ‘event’ is called ‘ME’. There is no separation – this must be discovered for yourself – no one can do it for you.
Posted by areti on 07.13.09 3:35 pm
Jacob, ‘being’ can’t be seen for there is no one to see it, it is being, it is what is. And in the ‘what is’, there is a story of a Jacob who thinks that he is seeing ‘being’. You say ‘I know it’s always here’ – in That seeing, you notice that there is no seer and yet you come in saying that the seer is no longer seeing. Can you see how ludicrous it seems. These thoughts arise, but they do not arise for anyone.
As Bob says, when we focus on the mind, it is like a magnifying glass focusing the sun’s rays so much that they burn. That is where the energy is going, but you are not this entity, you are not this mind. All the senses are wide awake. You do not have to think you are thinking to be the seeing of this thinking, the thinking etc. You do not have to stay with this presence, you are always and ever this presence. The story of a Jacob is illusionary. The only continuity of this Jacob is the continuity in the story, all thought.
So, if you are already that, then what becoming could there be in it. If you have already seen that there is no seer in the silence of mind, then who is this Jacob who is engaging in thought? What reality is there in the thoughts? See that there is no accumulation of these thoughts anywhere. They appear and are gone. You don’t ever know what your next thought is going to be. Relax, let the mind do what it does, stay centered in this seeing (already you are centred in that). Stay with what is always and ever there, don’t run away with the thoughts, they aren’t real, they are transitory, not what you always and ever are.
Posted by gilbert on 07.13.09 3:44 pm
The only INTENT that there is, is Universal. It removes the obstacles just like the sun evaporates water. There is no one ‘doing it’. The natural state is wordless, silent. Nothing is truly created. Where are you seeing from? Right there it is the most obvious factor – but it is not a ‘thing’ – it is an absence of all things.
Don’t ‘start’ with a concept.
Start there, from where you are ACTUALLY seeing from – where the seeing IS. It is impossible to ‘get to it’ with the mind – yet it is the true nature of mind.
The ‘search’ is the problem.
Nisargadatta’s guru, Siddharameshwar named it as ‘Thoughtless Reality’.
It is exceedingly subtle for the mind, yet it is our natural state, a state that ‘we’ never move in or out of. That is why ‘we’ miss it. The mind uses comparison to distinguish ‘things’. This is NO THING.
Posted by Jacob ,Isle of wight. u.k on 07.13.09 8:19 pm
much love to you all, Thanks, Jacob
Posted by milton on 07.14.09 1:18 am
UGC has revealed the following. I am awake. I am the space within which I sense, perceive, feel, or think, I am also that which is aware of space. Suffering appears within me, others appear within me, doing appears within me, life stories occur within me, without any effort or concern on my part. There is no person to be enlightened or not, except as an appearance within me. It would be absurd to be concerned about enlightening or transforming an appearance, just as it would be absurd to worry about which other appearances are realized or not. Since I am always here, as everything, there is nothing to be lost or gained, nothing to do, nothing to seek. Thank you Gilbert for your relentless pointing.
Posted by dan on 07.14.09 1:20 am
All there is, is This.
And This is all there is.
And what This is, is whatever is happening.
And what is happening is whatever is happening.
What is happening is made out of what is happening.
There is nothing outside of This.
There is no other substance than This.
This is made of This.
And This is no-thing……. happening.
This takes the shape of ‘things’.
It forms and patterns.
This is what This sounds like.
This is what This looks like.
This is what This smells like.
This is what This feels like.
This is what This tastes like.
This is what This emotes like.
This is what This thinks like.
It is all This.
And That.
This is ever-flowing, in a state of emergency, perpetually emerging and out-pouring.
All of these appearances are delivered.
But there is nobody there to take delivery of it.
There is no need.
The very deliverance is enough.
No need to convert the deliverance further into a state of receiving.
In fact, this is impossible.
It is delivered for no one.
Can it be then said that there is even any such thing as delivery?
For, if there is no receiver, there – in essence – can be no delivery.
The very moment of delivery, of arising, gives rise to its falling, its dissipation.
That moment is timeless.
In it, there is no time, no delivery, no receiving, for it all adds up to zero.
It is no-thing.
But still, the miracle……
The current of the river still brings voices on the water.
Posted by gilbert on 07.14.09 2:01 am
Thank you Dan.
A small but significant detail for the readers to clear up any misunderstanding:
In reference to the previous note by Dan.
The word ‘THIS’ is particular – The meaning of the word ‘THAT’ is Universal and is not particular at all – everything is THAT. That is a chair – That is a cat – That is a door.
It is not all this and that. This and that is duality. We are talking about Non Duality.
It is ALL THAT…..or to be more precise THAT is everything.
In other words “I am not THIS particular momentary pattern of the appearance – ‘this’ has already appeared and disappeared before you know it.
Therefore “I am THAT” the unchanging Essence, timeless, birth-less and death-less.
‘This’ is included in THAT because THAT is ALL inclusive.
‘This’ suggests exclusion.
Some will point the proverbial finger and say “semantics”. It is not semantics.
If you can grasp what this detail above means, then there will be nothing more to realize.
Posted by dan on 07.14.09 7:39 am
Don’t READ the words and try and get something from them. Some movement is happening ‘underneath’… some ‘shifting’….. some ‘realignment’…. something much more important than intellectual understanding of concepts, etc. To help add weight to Gilbert’s clarification, it may be more accurate to say:
There is a current ‘scene’ appearing right now. I would hasten a guess that it looks like a computer screen. Through the sense of sight, the appearance of this computer screen is seen. This is the ‘scene’ that is happening, apparently. (there are many other things happening, sounds, smells, but lets keep it simple right now).
This ‘scene’ is what THAT looks like, right now.
This ‘scene’ is always changing. (even a different sentence is being read now)
THAT (no-thing) cannot change.
The ‘moment’ THAT changes (vibrates) it appears as This.
The ‘moment’ THAT changes, we call it something else. It automatically is something else: This.
It never is something else however.
Ultimately, it is seen that:
THAT is what the This is.
This is none other than THAT.
This = THAT (in changing-mode)
This = THAT dancing
It is always and ever THAT
Posted by Don Cornelius on 07.14.09 9:19 am
Is there anything more to this than just simple theory? Of course everything arises from the one life. But does this make a tangible difference in one’s life?
Please, feel free to add all the enclosing quotations and “appearances” needed to make these questions decipherable.
PS Gilbert, you have a wider audience here than just those ‘blasted satsang loving devotees’. Something tells me that Friar Tuck and I have never grinned and held hands together at an Eli Jaxon-Hole event.
Posted by gilbert on 07.14.09 11:01 am
Nothing could be more simple than Non Duality.
For the mind, “the truth is stranger than fiction”. Truth is simple and unchanging – reality is that which does not change.
What do you know of that does not change? Isn’t it the ‘knowing’ itself? Space-like awareness. The emptiness in which all things appear.
There is nothing more or less to this – THAT – it expresses itself as this ever fresh manifestation.
Don, you ask: “does this make a tangible difference in one’s life?”
The answer is yes and no.
If you consider the vanishing of internal conflict as a benefit, then yes – yet that is actually not ‘personal’. It is only a ‘person’ that suffers. The ‘person’ never actually existed, so the answer is also NO.
Nothing has ever happened in the manifestation. Just like nothing ever happens in the mirror. The reflections change and the mirror is full of reflection(s).
Nothing accumulates in the mirror. The mirror does not fill up and burst.
The reflections ARE the mirror and nothing but the mirror. The mirror’s nature is to reflect. The nature of awareness is awareness. The mirror like nature of the ‘mind’ is to reflect everything in the immediacy. It is the believed in ‘entity’ that runs around chasing its own tail. ‘We all’ know this yet only get glimpses of it, because of the belief in ‘me’.
‘The appearance’ is nothing but awareness.
The expression fails as we get extremely close to ‘the mirror’. The mirror makes itself known naturally. The instant ‘the mirror’ is apperceived the reflections lose their ‘meaning’. It is ALL mirror – it is ALL Awareness – appearing as ‘this and this’.
The conflict of identity resolves itself – it is not because any ‘you’ does something.
Convincing apparent independent ‘entities’ in ‘the mirror’ that they don’t exist is not possible.
Realizing your true nature is ever possible. However, it is the most intimate ‘event’ of all events and in the instant of this ‘event’ it is known that there are no events outside of the appearance of events.
So, you see how difficult it is to express, since my words are like rabbits darting about the plains. But the SEEING is singular.
The empty space from which seeing is happening is clear and obvious.
HOW can I convince you of this? Not possible. All I can do is ‘point’.
The visits to my own website have spiked in recent days for some ‘reason’.
I am not sure why and it is only a passing interest. If this was a business venture, then I would need to capitalize on this surge of interest.
The fact is there is nothing to sell.
What you seek you already ARE. In the appearance, these things were pointed out to me by Bob Adamson. The lineage is an appearance – the Essence is One.
The only thing I get out if this unceasing sharing is a warm sensation when I see that someone ‘gets it’.
There have been many who have conveyed to me that the recognition has happened. No record is kept of these ‘events’ and I have not set myself up as a guru – because something ‘tells me’ that it is a false path to tread, rife with illusion and self-importance that few have ever risen above. The evidence is plain as daylight. There are other ways to get the message out there and it is happening.
Ultimately even that as a concept is erroneous, because there is no ‘out there’ and there is no one that ever gets it.
The disappearance of internal conflict appears to be something one wishes to have. Cease from trying to get rid of something and BE what you are.
As a fact: Everyone is already THAT.
There is nothing to alter or change in reality.
All the changes that appear to occur in the appearance, amount to NO THING.
As the one and only Don Cornelius would say: “We wish you love, peace and soul!”
Posted by Don Cornelius on 07.14.09 1:35 pm
Gilbert, years ago I had the wonderful privilege of interviewing the late great Godfather of Soul, James Brown. I asked him if he had some advice for young people, uhhhm, what would he tell ‘em?
Does his answer strike you as dualistic jive, brutha?
Posted by gilbert on 07.14.09 2:05 pm
Don, am I to take you seriously?
Don Cornelius interviewed a lot of Souls and never found an answer?
James Brown was a salable ‘product’ in the appearance. Not sure anyone ever expected him to be a wise one. Chuck Berry was cool too. So what?
All answers are dualistic. WHO is asking the question? – that is the point. Who wants to know what?
Peace and love Bro – and don’t forget about the soul.
Posted by areti on 07.14.09 2:56 pm
Don, this all points to what is ‘beyond’ theory, so of course it is more than just a simple theory. In fact, it is not a theory at all. Theories are postulations, are of the mind. What is being pointed to here is that the mind is always theorizing, but what you are is not a theory. When people turn this into a point of discussion or debate, it is no longer doing its job of pointing to that ‘something’ (no thing really – because it is wordless) that is always and ever what you are.
You can not argue about the truth of this (well, you can, because arguing certainly happens). I guess what I mean is that you cannot adopt this as a belief system. What use would that be, replacing an old belief system with non-duality? May as well believe in Jesus Christ or Scientology or any other thing. It’s all going to be belief.
What non-duality is saying is that what you are is not all this conceptual translation of what reality is. The reality of what you are is that unchanging aspect (‘you’ notice this in the silence of mind). Now, can you believe that or are you going to use the mind to see what it is that is being pointed to? Who can argue the truth or falseness of this without first hand examination. Examine it for ‘yourself’ and see if in fact there is any you or me or separation in this that is being pointed to. And then see if this is what you are. No point in adopting what others are telling you. No point in saying ‘Yeah, that sounds reasonable’. No. Only thing to do is look and see.
Then, you can answer for yourself if it makes any difference to your life.
Posted by dan on 07.14.09 4:35 pm
There is nothing more to get. How can you teach someone to Be? If Being is all there is and it is already the case, then who is gonna teach whom? All that remains is the dance, and it springs spontaneously out of and as THAT.
This has nothing to do with the individual.
Posted by Jacob ,Isle of wight. u.k on 07.14.09 7:11 pm
Gilbert can you say a bit more about the pointer where are you seeing from , Thanks, love Jacob
Posted by gilbert on 07.14.09 10:42 pm
Here are some directives for what you ask for:
Allow the seeing to relax from focusing on ‘things’, let it be expansive, spacious.
Gently bring the attention back into the space behind the eyes.
See that this space is clear and empty.
There is nothing with any substance in this clear space of seeing.
The true nature of the mind is clear and empty.
If you were to be some-thing that was or is seeing, then surely a sense of it would be obvious ‘here’.
If the ‘I’ thought arises, pause it. (neti-neti)
Get a good taste of this openness.
I will say no more at this point about it. Apart from the fact that endless conceptualizing about this will only get in the way. Let the mind be empty.
Posted by Jacob ,Isle of wight. u.k on 07.14.09 11:45 pm
Thank you – love jacob
Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.15.09 8:55 am
Everything that is being registered is registering in emptiness; cognizing emptiness. There is no separate entity, no concept, or concept of confusion that even has a minute chance of registering anything. You, yes you, are registering impressions. That ‘you’ I refer to is cognizing emptiness (or however you want to call yourself) If you think you are totally confused and don’t get this Advaita stuff at all–there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the you who you think you are isn’t the you who you are RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT. You are cognizing emptiness and you are already “doing your thing” perfectly. You, the real you, doesn’t know how to do anything except to be this Witnessing Presence in which everything arises.
Ok, here’s the bad news…the bad news is that right here right now is already present as the good news.. It doesn’t get any better than this! You don’t get the luxury of being a separate entity who registers things in a confused, miserable manner and then evolve into pure Witnessing Presence. You’re already there! Whether the thought is one of confusion, pure Peace, deep identification–all of those impressions require CLARITY to even register. Take a wild guess who/what that clarity is.
-it is You!
Posted by gilbert on 07.16.09 4:27 am
Charlie has a new podcast happening, the latest is with Randall Friend and the previous one was with John Greven. Both have been popular here at the UGC.
Well, just finishing off the final touches to the next program (at 4 am). Jezz, lengths I go for you ‘seekers’. Yawn, yawn.
This next program is a new venture for us and since we always please some and displease others, we will stick to our tradition I am sure.
Who knows what will pop up here next? Anyway which way but loose.
I think its good stuff.
So, don’t drift too far away because the next program will cause a few waves.
Warm regards – Gilbert.
Posted by Mark Roske on 07.16.09 8:12 am
Absolutely Loved all three podcasts, even went and picked up a copy of Lucid Living, which I read in one sitting and then gave to a dear friend. YES, on the mixing Gilbert.
Areti, as always, your questions and dialogue were Sharp.
The words, languaging, and accent may seem different to some, but the Same message is heard over here.
ThanQ once again, UGC, for another Hit.
Posted by Mike in SF on 07.16.09 8:47 am
Thanks for mentioning Charlie’s podcasts Gilbert. I listened to the Bob one a few weeks ago but didn’t know about the John Greven and Randall Friend ones. I just listened to the Greven one. Why is this stuff so interesting? Weird. Greven sounded annoyed throughout most of the podcast, much like he did in his UGC interview. Funny.
Look forward to the new program.
Posted by gilbert on 07.16.09 9:53 am
We are happy to mention Charlie’s podcast activities but we do not wish to have summaries of them posted here, thank you. I just delete a negative summary, of one of Charlie’s interviews, posted here about John Greven. It meant absolutely nothing to me, since I have not listened to the podcast and I am sure many others would simply be put off by such things. We try to keep this site as clean as possible so it isn’t obscure or a cesspit for negative banter and prattle. Many appreciate that I am sure.
The same applies for the Advaita Show. Both podcasts have their own comment exchange facilities where such comments would make more sense.
The UGC has no influence over what the other podcasts do or how they do it. It is great they are there, I just don’t have the spare time to keep track on what they are doing.
Respectfully – Gilbert.
Posted by mrsnacks on 07.19.09 7:38 pm
first time posting here. Really enjoy this site.
Hey Don Cornelius – I am in the music biz and played and worked for many of the artists on your tv show. Good to see you here. Met you a long time ago at a rehearsal.
Now on to my questions.
Thoughts do arise and fall in who we really are- awareness. We are not the thinker of the thoughts, we are outside the thoughts as the seer. So if that is so which it is how is it that the thoughts that arise in my awareness are not as sharp and intelligent and wise as someone else’s ? For example I didn’t do as well as my brother in school or college. He has great ability and concentration when it comes to studies. I really had to work at getting a high grade and have a terrible memory as for my brother- he breezed through school getting A’s. Is it all conditioning ? Even though they are no persons in the absolute – there are some that are just naturally talented in a certain area and those who are very bright and some stupid body minds out there etc. How do you explain that ? I still have issues getting upset with myself for not thinking like I would want to . Should I ? If I am not the doer or thinker than I am relieved of all the responsibility for the doing and the thinking. If I am in a store and the thought comes to mind to steal that candy and I do and get caught, I will end up in jail. According to the law I am the doer. I can’t just say things happen, life happens. It does. But it doesn’t get me off the hook.
It has been said that psychological suffering can end. Why is there no carry over for the physical suffering ? a lot of physical suffering is rooted in unhealthy thoughts and emotions. So wouldn’t it follow that once we cease to identify with the body mind, being who we are shouldn’t that affect our physical well being if we know who and what we really are and live from that ?
Timothy Freke is convinced that there is no historical Jesus from the research he has done. Others including myself look at the documents and see that there is a real Jesus who existed. Jesus healed those who were mentally and physically sick.
The God within Him was able to do this . Jesus took no credit for any of the good works.
This makes sense because God is within. If there is a God who can act then there can be acts of God. So what are some insights from you all concerning Jesus? If there wasn’t a Jesus than it is pointless to quote from Him and to even mention His name but most all religions at least acknowledge Him. if there is no Jesus than Christianity and most religions collapse. Just like if there was no Buddha or it was shown that Mohammad, Joseph Smith, never existed than those religions would be based on a lie.
Can one here explain truth to me ? It has been said that concepts , ideas, thoughts, and beliefs are neither true nor false. 2+2= 4 is a true statement. Christianity is a religion is a true statement or fact. So if the thought arises that 2+ 2 = 4 then isn’t that a true thought ? There is no duality in non duality is a true statement ? So please explain.
I know that when a thought arises I may put my interpretation to that thought and that makes it true or false but what about thoughts that are factual. The thought that I am having a thought is true isn’t it ? Some teachers have put it in a way that all concepts, beliefs, and ideas etc are bullshit. Who then wants bullshit ? If that is true then one who is seeking and looking into non duality is being told it is all bullshit would he/she go to a non duality website ? So please be patient and shine some light on my questions. Thanks.
Posted by gilbert on 07.19.09 9:37 pm
1. The One Essence expresses and appears as all the diversity, every possible seemingly separate ‘thing’ – yet it remains AS No Thing in Essence.
The ‘me’ concept appears to dull the intelligence and appears to weigh down the free flowing intelligence. Get the ‘me’ out of the way and see what happens.
2. They are not YOUR thoughts. The idea that ‘I’ am upset with how the thinking proceeds is just another thought – it is a habit of referring what is arising to the ‘me’ of memory.
Investigate that ‘me’.
3. You can’t steal the candy and if they put you in gaol for that, then move states. Intelligence is doing it all. Are you irresponsible usually? No. Intelligence tells ‘you’ what is likely to happen – but NO ONE knows what will happen.
4. Who is on the hook? It is the ‘me’ and it is hooked on another series of concepts, memories and anticipation.
5. The body does not suffer – pain happens and it is just a sign that things are not well – intelligence can act to remove the cause of the pain – or go see a doctor. Intelligence in action.
6. Who needs religion? The whole thing is right with you – contained in the FACT of your own BEING. BEING is GOD. “Let NO man come between you and your God” (Bible).
7. Thoughts can be correct – they can NEVER be true. The expression (appearance) is the essence expressing as everything (Multiplicity). Everything is NOT ONE – ONE is everything. “The sum of all the parts in not equal to the WHOLE.”
It is a subtle pointer, an expression – it is correct. The sum of your life experiences is not equal to the immediate experiencing – thus the story of me is useless to KNOW what I am right NOW.
8. Be attentive and watch the mind – SEE how it works. KNOW that what you are is not in the so-called ‘mind’.
Finally:
The cognizing factor is NOT in any pattern that is appearing. Whether it be a thought, a state of being, a body, a world or the universe – the KNOWING is beyond ALL appearances. You cannot find it – you can only BE it.
Understanding is silent knowing, prior to language.
When Tim says that thoughts make us more conscious – that is CRAP.
There is No more conscious or less conscious – it may APPEAR that way but it is NOT correct or true.
Yet, that is how the ONE manifests.
Where are you SEEING from?
Right there in that clear space of knowing, ALL questions resolve themselves, so long as the mind of habit and the ‘me’ remains in abeyance, so a GOOD TASTE of what I AM can take place.
FEW take the direct pointers and ACT on them. That is how it is – and it does not matter. Everyone is THAT, whether the know it or not. ONE without a second.
Non Duality. There is NO separation – no matter what anyone says.
Posted by Ralph on 07.21.09 8:35 pm
” Love is how Oneness feels”
- Timothy Freke
Posted by mrsnacks on 08.09.09 5:46 pm
Thoughts can be correct – they can NEVER be true. The expression (appearance) is the essence expressing as everything (Multiplicity). Everything is NOT ONE – ONE is everything. “The sum of all the parts in not equal to the WHOLE.â€
It is a subtle pointer, an expression – it is correct. The sum of your life experiences is not equal to the immediate experiencing – thus the story of me is useless to KNOW what I am right NOW.
———————————
Yes – everything is not one but one is everything. a subtle pointer indeed.
Editor: Isn’t it so obvious. Yet few recognize the infinite field of resonance that potentially rests in every thing. Once one opens to it, nothing can close it.
Posted by TravisE on 10.27.09 8:21 am
Thanks so much for these awesome interviews. Great way to prep for, and carry on after, the Tim Freke daylong workshop I attended last Saturday in San Francisco.
Cheers!