Urban Guru Cafe

Discovering what you truly are

46. It’s YOURS right here, right NOW – Kimo, Dan and Morgan # 1

Posted on 07.16.09 6:44PM under Podcast

We have three guests on this program, Dan, Morgan and Kimo, regular posters on the comment pages here at the UGC. Areti interviews the boys and gets them to share ‘how they see it all’. We trust you will enjoy it. Gilbert throws in a few red herrings, just for fun.

Music includes: Bob Dylan, Duoud, Everything but the Girl, Groove Amarda, Pepe Habichulela (Flamenco), The Beatles, Dan (our Dan) and Men at Work. Brief voice cuts from the TV series: Mad Men – and The Riches.

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Read Comments

  1. Posted by gilbert on 07.16.09 11:03 pm

    Well, here it is. There will be a second part to this program. Dan actually plays one piece of the music we used. Bit of Uke playing so he says. From memory the piece is called “Advaita Ukelele”. I throw in some stirring comments here and there, which may ‘test’ some who believe certain things about themselves. The thing is that a reaction happens and our philosophy about life comes after. “Yes but……etc” It is a fun program over all and it demonstrates that ‘pointing’ does not necessarily have to come from some guru.
    In fact most gurus are sloppy in their pointing. Once they become popular they have a ‘need’ to keep the seekers busy with more seeking. It is ALL just in the appearance of things. Everyone and everything is THAT. Seeing that – knowing that is not a concept – it is seen and known in the immediacy of ‘no time’ – without the habitual predominance of believing that I am a seer or knower. The ‘irony’ is that nothing ever happened. There is no separate ‘you’ but what you truly ARE is infinite and unlimited. It isn’t about getting some catch phrases and setting up shop as a Guru. No one knows THAT – everyone IS THAT.
    Enjoy – Gilbert.

  2. Posted by tomvds on 07.17.09 7:15 am

    Good stuff lads… keep up the good work..! Thumbs Up.
    Finally some clear and intelligible pointing and the music is great too !
    Also the presentation of G&A is fun to listen to!
    I missed sidekick Ralph, ’cause he would’ve given us something to work with …
    And Now it’s Just Full Stop !

  3. Posted by dan on 07.17.09 3:36 pm

    I’d just like to mention that Kimo, Morgan and Dan are now available to book for bar mitzvahs and weddings.

    Yeah. We rock the party.

  4. Posted by Mark Roske on 07.17.09 3:47 pm

    Frikin Awesome Stuff You guys are way better than my usual Thurs. Night TV
    Can’t wait…………………………. To see all the comments on This One!

  5. Posted by Sully on 07.17.09 7:10 pm

    I really liked when Areti asked if anything was different for the guys after understanding. I think it was Dan who said “I just woke up one day and everything was OK!!!”

    I get a sense of this once & awhile then some more shit will come my way and I forget everything is oK.

    Thanks for the podcast!

  6. Posted by gilbert on 07.17.09 7:42 pm

    There is ONLY knowing happening. Thoughts appear and disappear in that knowing – it is all THAT – One without a second.
    The One expresses as the many – the appearance of many – yet the appearance is also One Appearance.
    Just as there are no distinct separate reflections in a mirror (one mirror, one reflection), there is also no separate appearances in the One Appearance.
    Drop the labels and the discriminating mind and see if you can separate anything in the appearance.
    Recognize that ‘seeing’ is not post mind translations. All of our conceptual postulations about separation belong to the mind translations (appearances of thought).
    Let me suggest a brief exercise. Write down on a piece of paper the worst aspect of your personal story in one sentence. Make it as dramatic as you can.
    Be totally conscious of what is happening. See how quickly the feeling starts forming into an emotional state. The story of me is being stirred up. It is a wonderful opportunity to really SEE what the ‘me’ is.
    So, once it is written down, if you get that far, look at the sentence and take the meaning out of the words. Take the meaning out of the words.
    See them for what they are.
    The mind seemingly divides THAT which can NEVER be divided. It always includes an aspect of ‘time’ to it. Words appear to divide ‘presence’.
    But THIS MOMENT is all there is. Stay with this moment and SEE that these ‘stories of me’ cannot survive in this clear and present wakefulness. They lose their seeming power almost instantly. It is so simple.
    There is NO TIME – time is mind and if you pause thought for the briefest so-called ‘moment’ the view is immaculately clear – infinite and unobstructed.
    The resistance to SEEING this is the ‘me’ – the story of me.
    And it is all made of words and memories, past experiences – and the Ever present Experiencing is uninterrupted – Ever-Present and THAT is what you are.
    You have NEVER actually MOVED AWAY from THAT.
    Like ‘space’, it is the substratum of all that appears and disappears.
    Some have a very good laugh about it, when the ‘penny drops’.
    However, to express what has been recognized remains impossible to describe.
    Like ‘space’, without reference to ‘things’, distance and volume, what can you say about space? There is nothing to say. Contemplating space tends to quieten the mind and the wonder of existence seeps up from nowhere.
    Well, some of us share what we can about all this – but there is no separate entity doing anything.

  7. Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.18.09 2:52 am

    Enjoyed the interview–and the levity was fun. Kimo says “That’s It” so many times during this interview we’re liable to have the seekers writing in confusion that this goes against the Neti-Neti principle of “Not This Not That”.

  8. Posted by Richard on 07.18.09 6:51 am

    neti, neti = not this, not this = That. (According to Bob in interview by Charlie on Charlie’s site).

    Neti means “this” and doesn’t change meaning by being repeated.

    Haven’t heard this podcast yet but am about to. Wanted to look at the comments first to see what I was in for.

  9. Posted by Richard on 07.18.09 7:39 am

    Good show chaps and chapette. I enjoyed it.

    It seems the guests all mentioned the psychological benefits that showed up for them. Isn’t there more to it than that? Nisargadatta spoke of the Absolute which is beyond consciousness (or awareness, which may be a function of consciousness).

    Weren’t Nisargadatta and Ramana speaking of and demonstrating more than just well-being?

    Thanks in advance for any replies.

  10. Posted by Ron Marson on 07.18.09 10:15 am

    What is ‘well-being’ when its MEANING drops away?

    Being apparently creates labels to translate Itself into many selves– into so-called states like ‘well-being’ and ‘confused-being’ and ‘non-being’ and ‘present-being’ and ‘distracted-being’.
    Are these labels anything more than sound energies (when spoken), or electrical energies (when contemplated)?
    If so, carry these ‘meanings’ for as long as they hold ‘your’ interest. (Not that ‘you’ can drop them, especially when ‘you’ want too.)
    If not, let ‘your’ meanings carry themselves. (News Flash: Nothing spotted carrying nothing!)
    Whether Being holds its thought patterns lightly or not, being is still Being.
    Appearances change in predictable patterns. And No-thing always looks the same!
    Why is that not boring?
    I have no idea.

  11. Posted by Morgan on 07.18.09 11:08 am

    Gil & Areti, I really like the way you put everything together (as always). Good points gents. Lots of fun.

  12. Posted by gilbert on 07.18.09 11:25 am

    Good point Richard.
    Basically, we point out that psychological suffering is unnecessary. The inner conflict over identity is unnecessary and the crucial point is that ‘understanding’ is not in the psychology or the identity.
    The psychology and the identity are ripples (disturbances) across the surface of Being.
    You true identity can never be questioned or negated by any mind or identity.
    What you truly are has never been disturbed by any appearance.
    Isn’t it odd that such ‘information’ is not grasped at with a joyous abandon?
    It seems incredibly hard to convince anyone that ‘That’s it’.

    This ‘news’ may seem completely unbelievable – to whom is it unbelievable?
    Isn’t the resistance belonging to ‘the believer’, the misidentified pattern called ‘me’ – the believed in separate ‘person’, a bunch of words and ideas?
    Remove the meaning of that word based ‘identity’ and what is left?
    Rest in open space-like awareness.
    Be nothing for just a moment. It may be enough to turn ‘your life’ around – in – the Dance of “Nothing ever Happened”.

  13. Posted by gilbert on 07.18.09 12:02 pm

    It does seem that one needs to be ready to hear the ‘message’. It is interesting to sit in one of Bob’s meetings and hear him express the most profound ‘pointing’ in one sentence and notice that it is missed by most. And to remember that I was once sitting there in meetings hearing very similar pointers and not really ‘hearing them’. So, it appears that if one keeps coming back to hear them, it ‘sinks in’ and ‘eventually’ intelligence responds in a most unexpected way, out of the blue a recognition happens – not necessarily in a meeting. The spiky, prickly world falls away, as Dan put it.
    The ‘story of me’ stops.
    Once one realizes that my identity is not in that story, HOW can it be believed in EVER again. The habit re-appears but it has already lost its ‘potency’.
    The darkness of separation lifts away as the dawn arrives.

  14. Posted by Richard on 07.18.09 2:19 pm

    Thanks. I was reading posts in another group and the questions I asked were in regards to a statement someone made.

    I was wondering how you folks would respond to those points. Excellently!, I would say.

    The author of that post believes Consciouness (Satchitananda; Self) is merely a step on the path to the prior-to-Consciousness Absolute.

    I guess Gilbert’s “Be nothing for a moment” would be similar to the unmanifest, attributeless Absolute from which all appears to arise. How many concepts have I included in that last sentence? :-)

    As for me, thanks to Bob, I am no longer searching for more or bigger or better. No longer compulsively reading either.

    Best wishes to all.

  15. Posted by gilbert on 07.18.09 2:31 pm

    Richard says “The author of the post believes”……..etc.
    That says it all. Self-proclaimed experts are a dime a dozen. They are caught up in belief in ‘process’ and ‘time’ – and they just cannot let go of it. Yet they believe that their ‘knowledge’ can free others – how absurd.
    How many ‘steps’ do you need to take to BE what you ARE?
    ‘You’ as a believed in thought process cannot KNOW anything at all.
    You are the Absolute – it has NOTHING to do with belief.
    As Bob so directly points out: “Start from the fact that you are THAT”.
    To which I add, “If you start anywhere else it is with a concept and a concept can NEVER encapsulate THAT.

  16. Posted by dan on 07.18.09 7:21 pm

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the individual. The problem is that we have a tendency to make this personal. Being IS. It is not his Being or her Being….. just Being.

    Disclaimer: the following is largely conceptual! —->

    There is a scaffolding that, ‘over time’ , appears to have been constructed in order to uphold and maintain this sense of individuality. This is because being an individual is an incredibly unstable and weak concept, it needs support (in fact, it is impossible, an error if you like). This scaffolding may appear in the form of many ‘distraction’ techniques: religion, politics, work, habits, relationships, ideas, concepts, etc…..

    When a resonance/recognition apparently happens, then the sense of individuality dissipates. The scaffolding is no longer needed and may rust, fall away, discard itself quite naturally. But who can tell? Maybe not. The changes in the appearance of things are simply a surface ripple that may or may not occur in reference to the recognition of THAT.

    But THAT always IS. Never changed.

    Nothing happens.

    Shit still happens. But no one is there to take delivery of it.

    If anything does happen, then it is re-Cognition of the Pure Cognizing.

  17. Posted by will on 07.18.09 7:59 pm

    This scaffolding can be dismantled piece by piece. It is soon seen that all it is in fact holding up is itself. There is nothing underneath. Amazing. Hilarious. And strangely, no surprise at all.

    Better still, there is no scaffolding.

    gateless gate.

    Editor: Scaffold-less Scaffolding for Hire. No fees involved. It is all stacked out the back of the Urban Guru Cafe. If you can find it, you can keep it.

  18. Posted by areti on 07.18.09 9:56 pm

    Thanks to all those who have let us know that they like the approach on this podcast. I had a lot of fun working with Gilbert on this one. Looking forward to working on part 2.

  19. Posted by gilbert on 07.19.09 12:04 am

    The average daily visits and downloads is at its highest since we started and that has been a fairly consistent graphic each month. So we have not hit a peak as yet. For a subject (Non Duality) that is not on everyone’s ‘favorite list’ it looks like ‘we’ are doing something right. The comment pages are not jammed tight though. For every one that makes comments, there are around a thousand who don’t make a comment. Are ‘people shy’ out there? The visit stats show that a great number come here to read the comment and I would encourage more to take the ‘leap’ and show yourself. We have had our fair share of ‘nutters’ throwing in unwanted ‘crap’ but they are in the minority (hopefully).
    If you have any questions about the programs or the ‘pointers’ there are a few who visit these pages who may shed some light on your questions and doubts. You may not like the ‘answers’ but that comes with the territory. If things get stirred up for you, it is an opportunity to ‘see’ something that may go unseen if you avoid sharing your questions or blockages. There is no risk involved, although the mind may tell you there is.
    The written word can sometimes be too sharp and be misunderstood because the tone of voice is not apparent in the written text. For instance, I have ‘made’ enemies with people I have never met merely over some words written in an email, words that did not convey the tone of my ‘intent’ or the jesting nature of the comments. Some ‘people’ ‘go off’ at the slightest provocation and one cannot always know who will be like that.
    In fact there are some ‘gurus’ who are just like that. They go on above ‘love’ constantly but if you push a couple of buttons they turn into a tirade of abuse.
    There is one famous hugging guru who apparently is nerve wracking to be around and if you happen to say the wrong thing to them, you get blasted and punished severely. Others rule their flock with an iron rod. As has been pointed out, there is a much wider audience here and the ‘spiritual types’ are not in the majority anymore. That is good news, because the spiritual types have been ‘programed’ with so much bullshit, it is tiresome to repeatedly dismantle those old habitual beliefs. The ordinary ‘person’ is far more open as a rule. The ‘message’ or ‘pointing’ is for everyone and it is everyone’s right to ‘hear it’. This is why we are presenting these programs and it is working and working very well. We have a vast audience now. No matter how many there are, it is YOU who this site is addressed to. Yes, YOU.
    No matter who you think you are – what you are is Non Dual, One Essence – the ‘cognizing factor’ that registers everything just AS IT IS.
    It is not called ‘me’ or ‘I’ – it has no name at all.
    It is the FACT of your own BEING. Wordless cognition.
    It is more like ‘space’ than any ‘thing’.
    That is why it appears to be so difficult to grasp.
    Yet, it is what you are.

  20. Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.19.09 1:12 am

    The interesting phenomenon is the impact on relationships revolving around an understanding. When this is first shared due to being asked about it, there’s a sense of “wow, they listened and thought this was interesting”, and then, unfortunately, it’s known that “nothing was heard”. Next pass, there may be some visible discomfort as the questioner tries to find that point in the body or mind that is “me”. They give up and may even be a little spooked. Next pass, the strong defense kicks in and there may be ridicule directed at Sailor Bob or posited as “why did you ever listen to this eastern crap? Isn’t that just for poor people who don’t know any better and never heard the Gospel?” Then in the reaction they see that this has nothing to do with any faith life (Jesus is still alright with me), and also that it has nothing to do with a person or a cult group—laugh about Sailor Bob or Advaita all you want. It was simple for me—what’s this self-realization all about? I had to know. Was this only mumbo jumbo and about throwing a veil over the person to anesthetize ourselves and escape life OR was the person concept a veil over Life itself? A little looking, and it’s seen. Nobody is denying the appearance of a body or the concept of a personality but what’s going on behind those things, appearances, constructs? How can any of this (the manifestation) be known? What you are is clearly already present as “the answer” to that. “After” seeing this, does anything change about what you are—NO. That’s impossible. But you may notice some close ones tip-toeing away from you…so be prepared for that (not everyone is a Naama Livni Lake or a Mrs Adamson so don’t expect that level of understanding in your closest relationships). All you 1000s who just download MP3s but never post, you may want to run from here! Maybe you should just go back to church to get your spiritual nourishment and be a good boy or girl and forget about all this.

  21. Posted by Stephen Met on 07.19.09 1:50 am

    Kimo Kimo Kimo Kimo Kimo

    Kimo wrote:
    “All you 1000s who just download MP3s but never post, you may want to run from here! Maybe you should just go back to church to get your spiritual nourishment and be a good boy or girl and forget about all this.”

    What ??????

    Your stuff is usually really good.

  22. Posted by ana on 07.19.09 3:14 am

    Dear Gilbert, Kimo

    Fail to see the importance of response, comments, and wonder why you
    are provoking, or enticing body mind organisms to do so.
    What would it chance, and for whom?
    If one has a question, one asks, if not and is only curious or
    inspired about what is written or heard; why is that not enough?.
    Maybe you can explain the reason why you would like
    to see more happening. It is already so good as it is.
    Really great, enjoy it immensely and have already expressed this.

    If one is in the process (this will get all hackles out… what do you mean
    process, process does not exist in non duality, well as Areti said: you know what i mean) of figuring it all out, and seeing is there, as This is all there is,
    then just listening, or reading the comments is just doing its job.
    Things are falling into place, because ever present awareness is all there is,
    and is seen. Then where is the need for comments.

    “WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON…”

  23. Posted by Tom Allen on 07.19.09 3:47 am

    I remember reading or seeing an interview of Frank Stella, the abstract expressionist–maybe impressionist–in which Stella said: Art is not effective therapy. It doesn’t cure anyone, unless there isn’t much wrong with them in the first place. Maybe the same can be said about seeing through the institution of The Person.You can see and know and still not want to go for a walk without your hairpiece on, still smear yourself with bleaching cream, still feel compelled to drown yourself in perfume or aftershave so people will love to see you coming by.Still be, in short, a pretty thoroughgoing neurotic with ten sore toes.Or is this so?

  24. Posted by Robin on 07.19.09 4:04 am

    I really enjoyed hearing the VOICES of Dan, Morgan and Kimo…As it has been said before, just reading the typed words on the comments page, projections happen and things can be misconstrued…Thanks Gilbert and Areti!

  25. Posted by Peter on 07.19.09 4:28 am

    Deepest gratitude to Gilbert and Areti for the wonderful work you are doing. The UGC is the best place i ever visited!
    Loved to listen to Dan’s music, beautiful voice, great music. Is there any CD of you available? Thank you, thank you, thank you for everything.

  26. Posted by dan on 07.19.09 6:09 am

    Regarding wanting “to see more happening.” (- Ana) There is nobody there wanting to provoke or entice. See how this perception of ‘someone-wanting-to-provoke-or-entice’ appears to you. It arises within and AS what you are.

    Nothing needs to happen. Nothing is relevant. No significance. It is all meaningless.

    Are you depressed now from hearing this?

    Is this a big let-down for ‘you’?

    So the question comes back: “so why all of this then?!!!!”

    As if the very appearance of ‘things’ implies there MUST be some reason or meaning to it all. This is another fundamental assumption. The assumption ‘sticks’ to the believed-in entity like glue. The individual is covered in a virtual sticky-backed tape. EVERYTHING sticks and clings to him/her.

    So, again, the question “WHY?”

    Well, why not? As long as we can ask the question “why?” then we can also ask the question “why not?” with as much validity and weight. Why the hell not?!!!!

    Why? Why not? = ZERO

    Why not see how many people ‘out there’ drift into this advaita stuff?

    Why not see if more people can pop along and post a message?

    Why not shout across the rooftops “YOU ARE THAT!!!” ?

    Why not run naked down the street in the rain singing “HEY BOPPA LULA BABY!!!” ?

    Tyler Durden from Fight Club: “It’s only after we’ve lost everything that we’re free to do anything”

    When it is re-cognized that you’re no-thing, then all is open and clear for ANYTHING to happen (as it always is anyway). It doesn’t matter. Its about singing or not singing. Either will do. Both the same. Its all the same ‘stuff’.

    We think it is a billion different pictures. It is not. There is only ONE (picture). It just appears in a billion different ways.

    YOU HAVE NEVER MOVED A MUSCLE.

  27. Posted by Ralph on 07.19.09 8:49 am

    Am I really a separate self? Why do I continue to have suffering thoughts ?
    True seeing is right here, right now but why can’t I see it ? Have you asked yourself these questions ? In my view the reason why is that our belief system needs to be looked at seriously. They have become who we ‘think’ we are.

    There is so much talk here about descirbing the indescribable but very little effort or energy spent on the investigation. Yes, words like ‘effort’, ‘process’, ‘time’ will ultimately be seen that they are what stands in the way of true seeing but NOT before.

    Have you ever wondered why certain thoughts especially the ‘uncomfortable ones’ show themselves over and over again ? why do they keep re-appearing and have a strong hold on us ? To find out why this requires that you do the investigation on why this is so. Most will avoid this because they are to painful and would prefer to simply say I am not my thoughts (which is true) and end it there but those damn suffering thoughts keep re-appearing, why? Well, perhaps there is no way out of these thoughts except through them. The appearance must be seen as just an appearance but the problem is that you have made them your very own.

    P.S. Tom freke’s statement’ Waking up to oneness and celebrating separateness’ says it all. Most seekers make the mistake of thinking it is either/or but in truth it is both/and. All is included and nothing is excluded. This includes appearances and thoughts and ALL that arises. So nothing needs to be excluded. Who you truly are is all of it . You are the totality of what is. You are in this so-called world playing all the roles including the clincher ‘the separate self.’

  28. Posted by Tom Allen on 07.19.09 9:14 am

    I would like to say that the above comment–from Tom Allen–was not meant as a put down or as a thrown bucketful of cold water. The program is a good one and the speakers are very clear.

  29. Posted by gilbert on 07.19.09 9:20 am

    ‘People’ believe in ‘process’ and they die from ‘process’.
    There is no one doing anything at all.
    Just because this is known throughly, does not mean that it still does not appear that someone is doing something.
    It seems that so many have some fixed idea about HOW this should appear in a ‘realized person’. There are NO ‘realized persons’ – NONE- Ziltch – Blotto – and ‘You’ as a separate individual DO NOT exist.
    The ONE and ONLY ‘cognizing factor’ is singular – One without a second.
    Space-like in its nature, it can never be grasped.
    The thoughts appearing are patterns – they are cognized. They have NOT one iota of KNOWING in them – and the IDEA about who you are in included in those appearing thoughts.
    THERE……….that is it in a nut shell.
    WHO understands THAT?
    There is ONLY ONE understanding.
    I AM THAT.
    So are you and ‘we’ are NOT.
    There is NO separation.

    LOVE me or HATE me – there is no choice and it does NOT matter.
    If there is no warmth towards your own being, then what love is there?

  30. Posted by dan on 07.19.09 9:23 am

    Making an ‘active’ enquiry will make you go CRAZY. For instance, making a practice out of asking the question “who am I?” and reiterating “I AM”, etc…. you will go mad if you keep it up and do it for long enough! Well, it would make you mad if there was anyone there…. the enquiry falls apart almost immediately. Try it. It rises and falls coz there is no answer….. no response. The ‘mind’ hits the brick wall…. it is the very cusp of the mind’s ability. It is like typing the number 2 into a computer that can only work in binary (ones and zeros). It simply cannot compute. Full stop. The machine shuts down. The real eye-opener in self-enquiry/investigation is that it ends in failure (as Jeff Foster often says).

    What I have just said is still all massively conceptual.

    The point is, even when there isn’t an advaita-directed positively-charged active enquiry going on, there is STILL an enquiry of some sort going on. However subtle. Even outside of all this nonduality, there are still people ‘out there’ making some kind of subtle enquiry. Perhaps there is an interest in fame, or wealth, or power, etc…. that is still an energy going out, a question if you like, a stimulus along the lines of “is this the answer? is this working?” Even in this sense, it could be said that this is enquiry. The whole apparent world is a huge seeking machine. As long as there is a sense of individuality happening then there is some kind of seeking or enquiry happening, no matter how subdued or faint it may appear.

    The sense of individuality is synonymous with a question mark.

    The i-entity is nothing more than a massive question mark.

    It is constantly asking the question “what is going on here?”

    So, don’t worry about it, chances are that if you’re reading this then some kind of enquiry is going on. It is just that it has taken on a more direct ‘approach’ as it were. Perhaps all other avenues have been seen through?

    It is an enquiry that is ‘happening’ underneath without any effort.

    Even listening to these podcasts is enquiry. Coming on to this board and checking out comments is enquiry. You don’t have to lift a finger! Or sit and meditate on the “I AM”. It is too late, your head is already firmly in the tiger’s mouth.

    If we are to listen to Bob when he says “start from the fact that you already are” then it becomes obvious that any enquiry can only spill out of and AS THAT which is already whole and complete. It is Oneness making an enquiry about itself!

    If there was some solid and time-tested method of self-enquiry then someone would have written a book with the 12 steps necessary to bring this about.

    But there is no such book. There are no prescriptions.

    How can you make a prescription towards and about something that already IS?

    How can Being be any more Being?

    What movement would Being have to do to be Being?

    Can Being “do” Being?

  31. Posted by Tom Allen on 07.19.09 9:28 am

    Ralph: You ask a good question: Why does the suffering keep coming back?Is it because that is all it can do until it is thoroughly…what? thoroughly digested? or, God have mercy, thoroughly embraced? I know that I sometimes find no rest until, buy the grace of whatever, I remember to quit running and looking away and denying and just sit and say: OK, come on in and let me have a good look at you.

  32. Posted by gilbert on 07.19.09 9:36 am

    Affirming and Denying is just the dance of duality.
    ONENESS does not need to embrace or reject itself.
    It is ALL INCLUSIVE. Pure SEEING is not rejecting or accepting anything – it is simply SEEING what IS. There is no ‘person’ in it – it is NOT personal ‘seeing’.

    The inquiry is not a practice. It is instantaneous. SEEING is happening.
    What needs to be seen, reveals itself to be absent.
    Once seen to be a fiction, HOW can it be truly believed in again?
    Whatever it is that ‘appears’ to bring about the recognition of our true nature is totally valid.
    If it appears as a practice then it isn’t really an investigation at all – it is just mind content indulgence.
    The essence of this investigation is SEEING and seeing is already happening.
    What is it that gets in the way?

    There is no one to go crazy – suggesting that there is is foolish and misleading.
    Yet in the appearance it may seem necessary for the ‘person’ to go crazy, before its fictional nature reveals itself.
    WHO cares?
    Love to all you fictional ‘people’.

  33. Posted by Tom Allen on 07.19.09 12:57 pm

    Gilbert says:Once seen to be a fiction, HOW can it be truly believed in again? Well, maybe it’s like this: The other night I saw an amateur production of Evita.When Eva sang “Don’t cry for me, Argentina” I was sitting in the audience crying.And the acting wasn’t all that good!I don’t believe in the historical personage named Tom but the disbelief gets suspended a lot of the time.I think my belief in self has been badly wounded in the way some opera characters are mortally run through in the last act and spend 15 minutes dying, bellowing all the while at the top of their lungs.

  34. Posted by ana on 07.19.09 2:34 pm

    Thanks Dan, for your response
    Yes i can see it now, it is an invitation, an invitation to sing and dance, to celebrate in words in a thousand different ways this which never can be described, no concept can touch, why not sing and dance with others who can put it in their own words.
    Some sing clear and bright, others are less fluent but to the point, others have still some spikiness about it and all is fine, oneness expressing itself in a billion different ways

    And also this is again a concept, but then why not.

    And who cares, as there is no-one anyway.

  35. Posted by ana on 07.19.09 3:14 pm

    p.s. Dan,

    Really like your music, please let us know how we
    can obtain more of this divine nectar for our ears,
    not joking,

  36. Posted by Richard on 07.19.09 3:47 pm

    Dan wrote, “If there was some solid and time-tested method of self-enquiry then someone would have written a book with the 12 steps necessary to bring this about.

    “But there is no such book. There are no prescriptions.

    “How can you make a prescription towards and about something that already IS?”

    Ever read “The Master Key to Self-Realization” by Nisargadatta’s guru, Siddharameshwar Maharaj? It IS time tested in that you can see some of its tenets in Nisargadatta’s words to his followers as well as in the words of another of Siddharameshwar’s disciples, Ranjit Maharaj.

    The book is not creating what already IS but true to its title is about Self-Realization, or realization of what already IS.

    For me it was a good foundation but no substitute for a living teacher.

  37. Posted by Mary on 07.19.09 6:38 pm

    Great stuff, thank you! I love the repartee between Areti and Gilbert, too. Made me smile ;-))

  38. Posted by WENOTWO on 07.19.09 11:15 pm

    Thank you guys for making this program. You’re speeding up my process like hell !;I feel I’m on the verge of something! More and more I see how others are stuck in the mud. To bad for them !

  39. Posted by WENOTWO on 07.19.09 11:29 pm

    “Ever read “The Master Key to Self-Realization” by Nisargadatta’s guru, Siddharameshwar Maharaj? ”

    Yes, I have read it and found it really interesting when he speaks about
    The first body : “The physical gross body”
    The second body : “The subtle body”
    the third body: “The causal body” aka “The Pain Body”
    The fourth body: ” The Great-Causal body” (Turya)

    At the moment I’m just concious of my first body, but thanks to you guys (Kimo,Dan,Morgan) for making this program. You’re speeding up my process like hell !;I feel I’m on the verge of something! More and more I see how others are stuck in the mud. To bad for them !

  40. Posted by gilbert on 07.19.09 11:56 pm

    All bodies are an appearance. The instruments through which the functioning happens.
    They are the expression of the SAME intelligence that functions the WHOLE.
    It is undivided – no thought can ever divide it.
    To put a name on it we can call it THAT – or I.
    There is only ONE. You are THAT one.
    The cognizing factor is emptiness, which expresses the form and the form is known not by the form but by the emptiness that expresses the form. This applies to ALL forms.
    Omniscience. Everywhere and nowhere. It has NO location, no loca.

    You don’t say “I body”.
    You say “My body”.
    “My car”. “My Coat”.
    You are not the car, the coat or the body.
    All the subtleties of the body (bodies) have no labels until the mind names them.
    If you delve into the naming, it will take you on a ride to nowhere.
    Everything you need to know is right here, right now – clearly evident in the pure cognition – the SEEING-KNOWING.
    Simply see that there is no one in that pure functioning.
    Everything else will take care of itself.
    The KEY to Self-Realization IS THAT pure cognition and nothing other than that.
    It is YOURS right now. It is only a thought that makes you believe something else.
    Belief is NOT the actual.

  41. Posted by Irene Rhodes on 07.20.09 1:06 am

    Just disovered you and absolutely loved it! Loved the format, the music, the humour, the lack of ‘guru-ness’ and awe……… thank you.

    On the music particularly – the ukulele piece was wonderful but I wanted to hear more. Where is it available please???

  42. Posted by Richard on 07.20.09 3:02 am

    What Gilbert (and Bob) says correlates with the following teaching of Nisargadatta (from “Prior to Consciousness):

    “As Absolute, I am timeless, infinite, and I am awareness, without being aware of awareness. As infinity I express myself as space, as timeless I express myself as time. Unless there is space and duration I cannot be conscious of myself…I, by Myself, Awareness, descend into this consciousness, and in this consciousnrss I express myself in manifold ways…”

    I thought that quote was beautiful and in line with what Bob and Gilbert emphasise and therefore share it with the group.

  43. Posted by WENOTWO on 07.20.09 5:10 am

    For the newcomers that visit this awesome site and it’s comment section I would like to create a few practical anti-pseudo-advaita rules:

    1)”You are not awakened unless you awaken.”
    2)”You are not That, unless you reach unity with the Absolute Reality.”
    3)”There is no path, but only for those who completed it.”
    4)”There is nobody here, but only when the somebody has dissolved.”

    Enlightenment is not that cheap. Many seekers seem to be unaware of a very simple fact that there are actually many levels of self-realization. There is an enormous difference between initial awakening and the actual state of enlightenment. One has to go through many stages of realization to become complete and whole. So for the time-being you can rest in BEING but do not take yourself beyond your spiritual level.

  44. Posted by Mark Roske on 07.20.09 5:20 am

    Pashaaaaa on that last one :)
    Levels of What????
    Peace,
    Question MarQ

  45. Posted by Morgan on 07.20.09 5:56 am

    wenotwo, there is one awareness and it is undivided. All talk about “different levels” of self-realization, etc is just a conceptal splitting of what cannot be separated. There can be different experiences that arise in knowing but they are bound to fade, leaving what is. Being is the essence, the only reality that cannot be lost or escaped from.

  46. Posted by WENOTWO on 07.20.09 6:13 am

    I know there is a Buddha in everyone screaming to get out, but I’m just saying don’t jump to conclusions before you can walk. comprende?

  47. Posted by Kimo (Jim) on 07.20.09 7:15 am

    The We No 2 concept never saw or heard anything–neither has any other concept. The cognizing emptiness that you are is already at Buddha Stage 10 or whatever falsely exalted rating you want to give it (there is no other knowing; hence none stronger or weaker). This spaghetti code person concept you have adopted wherein an entity arrives at a destination is all mind stuff. Everything already appears in the pristine awareness. Notice I didn’t say “your awareness”. We No 2 is just a thought, and when challenged, scrambles around to “prove its identity” by pointing to a body which comes and goes or thoughts that come and go–none of which have the ability to be aware–these “things” are only illuminated; illuminated by you already. Again, that ‘you’ that you are being right now is not a “We No 2″. It is whatever the concept “awareness” or “cognizing emptiness” is pointing to as the undeniable being presence you are right now.

  48. Posted by Richard on 07.20.09 8:05 am

    Along the lines of WENOTWO’s above post:

    “Satori (???) (Chinese: ?; pinyin: wù; Korean ?) is a Japanese Buddhist term for “enlightenment.” The word literally means “understanding.” “Satori” translates as a flash of sudden awareness, or individual enlightenment, and while satori is from the Zen Buddhist tradition, enlightenment can be simultaneously considered “the first step” or embarkation toward nirvana.

    “Satori is typically juxtaposed with a related term known as kensho, which translates as “seeing one’s nature.” Kensho experiences tend to be briefer glimpses, while satori is considered to be a deeper spiritual experience. Satori is as well an intuitive experience and has been described as being similar to awakening one day with an additional pair of arms, and only later learning how to use them.”

    On the other hand:

    1)”You are not awakened unless you awaken.”

    Who you are in the manifest is an expression of the awakened.

    2)”You are not That, unless you reach unity with the Absolute Reality.”

    You ARE Absolute reality and always have been.

    3)”There is no path, but only for those who completed it.”

    Clever use of words. Path or no path, experience or none, you are always in Essence what you are.

    4)”There is nobody here, but only when the somebody has dissolved.”

    I enjoy your style. It is all the Oneness whether manifest or unmanifest. Please refer to my previously posted Nisargadatta quote.

  49. Posted by WENOTWO on 07.20.09 8:57 am

    Realisation can happen through IAM meditation – Integrated Amrita Meditation Technique – or not; In any case we’ll have made a center of gravity of ourselves so when we die it’ll make it to another life so we can continue our practice, in the hope of attaining someday that ever elusive experience.

  50. Posted by gilbert on 07.20.09 9:26 am

    There is NO other life – NO later on – NO ‘heaven’ in the after-life.
    The direct message always gets crowded by jumbled up bullshit surrounding it.
    All the major religions have a core message that is clean and bright, for those who can recognize it. Scholars ADD text according to their ruminations, which they believe is true understanding. It is crap and it is obviously crap.

    THIS is NOT an elusive experience – it is PURE experiencing right NOW.
    It is only the additions to ‘I’ that create misunderstanding.
    That is why Siddahrameshwar told Nisargadatta to stay with the “I am-ness”.
    The advice was taken and within ‘the space’ of three years – the job was complete. The recognition is instant and unexpected. It may ‘appear’ to repeat itself a few times as the mind is cleared of beliefs – yet the recognition is always clear and empty of ‘thought’ and all ruminations are rendered passive in that recognition.

    One of the most common ‘errors’ is to make the messenger into a ‘god’ and worship him or her. It isn’t about the messenger. It isn’t about Nisargadatta or Bob or Ramana. In fact there is film footage of Ramana that shows that he was not impressed by all the idiotic ‘Westerners’ who ran around taking photos and taking notes. Spiritual tourists stay stuck in their own prison.
    See if you can get the gist of this: Try and take ‘that new mirror’ back to the shop and get a fresh one, because this one is full of reflections – you want your money back or a brand spanking new one, without reflections.
    Everything is reflected in the mirror like nature of ‘mind’.
    Where are you seeing from?
    Is there any two-ness there in that clear and empty space-like awareness?
    Is there a head or a body there or is it ALL reflections in the mirror like nature of ‘mind’?

    The resistance is the mechanism of the ‘me of memory’ and that investment of ‘identity’ in a fictional character, one who cannot ACTUALLY see or knowing anything.
    How can a thought see or know anything? Recognize that and the rest takes care of itself.

    As the old Amazing Grace song says: “I was blind but NOW I SEE”. Seeing is always happening – thought about what is seen come and go in the seeing.
    Everything is contained in the seeing.

    How are these things known? – Not by ‘a wretch like ME’.
    There is ONLY one seeing – one knowing and this pure functioning of seeing-knowing is NOT Post Mind Translations. The ‘word’ is NOT the real.
    All we can do is ‘point’.
    A recognition may happen unexpectedly.

  51. Posted by gilbert on 07.20.09 10:24 am

    Metaphor: You are wandering in the desert. You have run out of water. You are dying of thirst. You come across a small battered sign post and the faint writing says “Water 50 yards”.
    The ‘pointer’ of the sign shows the way.
    You don’t wait around kissing the signpost and you don’t pull it out of the sand and make it into an ever after Idol. You leave it there for others to find. Your first response is to get to the water. The clear water is ACTUALLY there where the sign predicted.
    Gratitude arises naturally.
    The ‘living waters’ in the message, is the resonance and the recognition of what I truly am.
    Once it is clear and obvious, you can show others the way but if the ego gets involved you end up surrounded by devotees, thirsty devotees. Giving them a spoonful at a time is devious. TELL them where the Well IS and they can drink as much as they want, without the guru getting in the way.

  52. Posted by Ralph on 07.20.09 10:31 am

    All there is is ‘this moment’. Notice how the mind (thoughts) pulls you out of the present moment . Just notice it, nothing needs to be done but the seeing of it can surprise you . See how it keeps you in the world of thought (past/future).

    Make the ‘present moment’ your home. Rest in the Now.

  53. Posted by Ralph on 07.20.09 10:48 am

    Guru’s that point and only point are the greatest teachers in the world.
    The rest is up to you.

  54. Posted by big john on 07.20.09 6:18 pm

    Gilbert said
    “That is why Siddahrameshwar told Nisargadatta to stay with the “I am-ness”.
    The advice was taken and within ‘the space’ of three years – the job was complete”

    Sounds like a three year path and process to reach the goal or complete the job to this entity.

    “The recognition is instant and unexpected.” more contradiction ?

    Don’t have a hissy Gilbert but are you playing with “me” or what? Outta here me thinks. Thanks

  55. Posted by gilbert on 07.20.09 7:01 pm

    In the dream there is no way out, in the dream.
    If there is a ‘conscious intent’, not as a separate believed in
    ‘entity’, when you a deadly earnest about this, the intent will appear naturally, unexpectedly. But you personalize it all by habit, so what I say will just be a series of contradictions for the mind. Cease from thinking and SEE what is truly going on. The old ways of thinking will not do any more. Throw them out.
    The recognition is instant by its very nature. It is EVER immediate as the cognizing factor that is with you right NOW. It is not in the thoughts that appear.
    The habits of mind need to be broken and that ‘appears’ in time and apparent process. The break through happens in an instant.
    You were NEVER bound. It only appears that you were bound and it appears that that bondage takes time to break down.
    The instruction, as I understand it was to stay with the ‘I am-ness’ the sense of presence. Even if you do this for a few minutes it will reveal what needs to be seen – BUT, so few actually try it. Too many concepts running around in the mind and a restlessness that will not leave you alone, long enough to SEE clearly. What can I do? All I can do is point, in as many ways as I can and I am not even doing that – it just happens.
    In the appearance of things, space and time, there is a seeming process but it isn’t something that anyone ‘does’. It merely happens. As soon as there is a concept of a ‘me’ doing a ‘process’ it is keeping the bondage in place, no matter how subtle the ‘doer’ appears to be, it is bondage.
    This is why I say that there is NO POINT in pretending to be the knower of anything.
    There is ONLY one knowing happening and it is Cosmic in nature.
    There NEVER was a separate being in this ONENESS.
    It is Non Duality.
    You will NEVER think this thing through to a completion, because the nature of the mind is to divide. Any conclusion you come to will fragment into new thoughts and eventually doubts will arise and then you are back searching.
    Once the recognition ‘happens’ it all makes sense but while trying to work it out with the mind and endless concepts, it will evade you, just like the horizon keeps moving away in exactly the same proportion as your approach.
    All we can do is point. The rest is up to you – and there isn’t one.
    Just absorb the message as often as possible and things will naturally open up.
    Three years isn’t all that long – but everyone puts it off and finds things to argue about.

  56. Posted by Mark Roske on 07.20.09 9:50 pm

    Simply Priceless, Gilbert…. Enlightenment…..50 yards ahead……

    All we can do is point. The rest is up to you – and there isn’t one…… Yes~

    You will NEVER think this thing through to a completion, because the nature of the mind is to divide. Any conclusion you come to will fragment into new thoughts and eventually doubts will arise and then you are back searching……..
    The BRICK WALL, when it’s finally HIT Head On just erases the “view”, the search and over here….. The “HOPE”… of Any Attainment… Just THIS~
    ThanQ,
    M

  57. Posted by Richard on 07.20.09 10:04 pm

    Yes, the instruction was to stay with the sense of I-Amness. But this was just a (pardon the expression) step. Just as one got to know the body and mind and discarded belief in them as the ultimate, so one gets to know thoroughly the I-Am and then goes beyond that. This gets back to his guru, Siddharameshwar’s instructional book.

    According to Nisargadatta, the I-Am is resultant from the body. “Prior to the happening of this birth, where is that ‘I-Amness? It was not there”.

    Nisargadatta also said, “…the primary ignorance is about our ‘I- Amness’. We have taken it as the Ultimate, that is ignorance.”

    The I-Am is the primary illusion from which spring a myriad of other illusions. One is to become established in it, thusly becoming beyond the body/mind, with all it’s distractions from the teachings, which include that “…you are not this “I-Amness, which is an outcome of the food essence product. Once you realize that…concepts, together with this ‘I-Amness’, are to be thrown out. What remains is the Absolute”.

    So is the viewpoint in the teachings of this lineage.

  58. Posted by gilbert on 07.20.09 10:45 pm

    The I am-ness is merely this immediate, un-mediated, sense of presence.
    It is what the mind adds onto the ‘I am’ that ’causes’ the problems.
    “I am Gilbert – I am a man – I am an Audio Engineer – I am a good person – a bad person, etc.
    Stay with the sense of presence – once this is recognized as the ever present experiencing of this immediate FACT of your own being, then the potency of this naked knowing, eliminates the false quite naturally – concepts are known to be concepts, as shifting changing appearances and NOT what I am.
    The stability of BEING, PRESENCE, is not shifting and changing.
    Presence-awareness reveals itself as what you ARE.
    See if you can toss that out. The pattern will disappear but PRESENCE can never disappear.
    Difficult to put into words – yet something gets expressed in ever fresh ways.
    It is not the imaginary ramblings of a mad man.
    The words of Nisargadatta, or whoever, may be useful but the whole point is to BE what you are, not to imitate the details handed down from another.
    Do not make a God out of Nisargadatta or any guru, or teacher.
    You miss the point completely if you do that.
    The mark of a good teacher is that he or she delivers the message and the knowing opens ‘inside’ you, naturally and beautifully.

    The ONLY thing you can be absolutely certain of is the FACT of your own BEING. Forget about Non-Being, it will take care of itself.

  59. Posted by gilbert on 07.21.09 1:24 am

    Just to help clear up a common misunderstanding that pops up so often.
    Process versus Instant.
    The appearance of ‘process’ can only appear in the immediacy of seeing-knowing.
    Seeing-Knowing is not a process – it is ever-present, AS the nature of awareness.
    Awareness is Non Dual.
    Everything appears in or on awareness and it all disappears. Awareness cannot disappear.
    Many believe that awareness disappears in deep sleep. What they don’t realize is that all the intellectualizing and theorizing is happening in the ‘personalized’ waking state. There is nothing ‘personal’ about deep sleep. All meaning attributed to dreams is from the translation by the so-called ‘mind’ in the waking state. In deep sleep there are no dreams and the impressions that are so vividly registering in the waking state are reduced to almost nothing. There is nothing to remember from the deep sleep state – yet one can say “I slept very well”.
    The natural state is wordless, just like the deep sleep state.
    All states appear on or in awareness.
    The cognizing factor is not in the body or the states. It is also not in any pattern.
    Realize that everything that you know of, is an appearance. The labels and meaning that we give everything is from the language we have learned. They are ALL approximations and the ‘word’ is not the real.
    When you recognize that the ‘thinker’ is just another thought, that cognizing factor is free from the ‘personal baggage’ of belief.
    This recognition may be a very simple glimpse yet it is a turning point – because once we see this, it can never be forgotten.
    Like the releasing of a key log in a logged river, it all starts to flow again and nature takes its course, naturally. The believed in ‘me’ is that key log that blocks the flow.
    Those who recognize what I am saying know the truth of this metaphor.
    Those who disbelieve its relevance still need to investigate that ‘me’.
    No one can do it for you.
    There is no real energy behind the me. It is ALL energy. It is the mind that divides it up into partitions. The energy ‘locked’ in erroneous belief flows freely once the ‘me’ is seen to have no center and no independence from what you truly are.

    Where are our guest speakers? They should be joining in here. I am going to be quiet for awhile. I have to get the next program ready. Cheers – Gilbert.

  60. Posted by chris on 07.21.09 5:37 am

    Hello Areti and Gilbert.

    Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the format of this podcast, which was quite entertaining! Thanks for all our hard work guys!

    Dan, Kimo and Morgan: I have always really enjoyed reading your posts and it was quite a treat to finally hear you guys speak here! I look forward to hearing (and reading) more.

    From reading all the pointers, I realize that it is the search itself that blocks the true seeing of this, of recognizing our true nature as it implies that there is actually a person there who will one day get this. It also implies that this moment right here right now is not enough.

    Gibert has pointed out several times to investigate this ‘me’ and to be conscious of the consciousness. I have done so but still do not feel as if I am there yet, even though I know that I am always there. It’s just not recognized yet here.

    I don’t know…it’s like there seems to be something in the way somehow. I guess I’ll just keep resting or being aware of this consciousness more and more. Not sure if that made sense.

    It should be simple and yet I keep complicating things I guess. I am compelled to read all this stuff in the hope to finally have it click, even though I keep reading that that’s the whole problem. It’s like I’m obsessed and recognizing my true nature is practically the only thing I think about.

    Sometimes I think I should just take a break and get on with my life but I keep coming back! I do so love this site however :-)
    Plus there doesn’t seem to be anybody in this city that is into this stuff.

    Anyway great program and sorry for the rant. It feels better just putting all this into writing!

    Chris

  61. Posted by Morgan on 07.21.09 6:28 am

    Hey Chris. Put the concepts aside and what is still present? That is what we are. Conceptualization will never bring you closer to this – you ARE it. Being cannot be lost, it’s the source of consciousness and, therefore, all appearance. There couldn’t be the appearance of someone who “doesn’t get it” (or anything else) without it.

  62. Posted by Morgan on 07.21.09 6:49 am

    I was emailing Randall Friend (he has some podcasts up on this site) and we were talking about who or what suffers and struggles and he said: “No one”. In clarifying, he said that all there is is being/awareness/presence – whatever you want to call it. Suffering, happiness, struggle, etc are just a thought interperitation of the appearance of this. Words/labels imply division but there is NONE. Nothing has ever appeared outside of being. Non-duality in a nutshell.

  63. Posted by Mark Roske on 07.21.09 8:35 am

    Loving that “Randall” character… He has been, along with G, , , Quite the Delivery- Non- person, who has clarified (helped make the hidden Obvious) my own illusions.
    Gratitude,
    M

  64. Posted by gilbert on 07.21.09 11:32 am

    In the ‘appearance of things’ it ‘seems’ that when ‘we’ hear this non dual ‘stuff’ something ‘clicks’ (or not) something draws us back for more. ‘We’ are thirsty and ‘we’ drink it in.
    The thirst does not go away immediately. ‘We’ need to get a good dose.
    The fact that it is Non Duality from ‘start to end’ without a start or an end ‘dawns on us’ = ‘Its’ ALL water’. How the water appears to be in multiple ‘states’ does not change the fact that ‘It’s ALL water’.
    The ancient Alchemist ‘Hermes’ said: “ALL things are ONE THING – ONE SUBSTANCE”.
    Here we say “IT IS ALL THAT”.
    Where is there a you or me in THAT?

  65. Posted by Mark Roske on 07.21.09 10:50 pm

    For a good while there, Gilbert, this ND stuff was like a drug for “me” and I spent most of my time immersed, completely in reading, viewing and perusing websites, Hoping beyond Hope to get Enlightened,,, lololol :) ( Mark’s view of enlightenment was Total Bliss, absence of Fear, Guilt, Pain….. Then the Book gets written, and “i” get some followers and some $$$….. HA HA, I know, but really….)
    At some point, it was seen that “I” was Not going to “get” AnyThing out of this and That was a huge shocker to the “me”. It was good, in a sense, because my actual “life” needed some attention and the Nihilism was just pouring out of me, yet, it felt good to not (seemingly) care about the pile of previous fears, concerns, story-lines etc.. At some point, again, it was seen that “Engagement With” and not “Detachment From” this here Hologram called Humanity, just “felt” better,,, very lightly, though, like preferring coffee over tea. There is a lightness and levity here-now, but nothing has really changed, in the appearance. I still go to work, do my thing, play with my kids, write poetry and yet it’s like, my stomach is relaxed, my jaw unclenched and I seem to actually be InJoying the movie.
    PeaceIn,
    M

  66. Posted by gilbert on 07.21.09 11:43 pm

    What more could you want?
    The angst leaves without even a ‘goodbye’, or a ‘See you later’.
    If I can be candid for a moment, a few years ago there arose a thought about ‘How it used to be here, with me’. After only a few moments of trying to remember, intelligence kicked in with “What are you doing? Why do you want to go back to that shit?”. It wasn’t actually in those words or any words, but that was the sense of it. The ‘mission’ was dropped instantly and it has never arisen again.
    The fact that the clenched teeth has gone – and the relaxation is there often, is the best sign one could have.
    Top top it off, there never was a ‘person’ in bondage.
    The resistance to that fact or any pointer can only be the ‘me’. The ‘me’ is resistance to ‘what is’. The ‘me’ wants ‘what is’ to be different.
    Talking about Non Duality is like shoveling runny shit up hill, when talking to anyone who has not had a good glimpse of ‘freedom from the me’.
    99.9% of the ‘people’ do not want to question the validity of the ‘me’ and that is fine. You wont hear about this stuff on mainstream media all that often if at all.
    There is NO MARKET for it because there is NOTHING to SELL. No product to push. What you seek you ALREADY are.
    Those who resonate or recognize the ‘pointers’ do so because they innately KNOW it already.
    The major difference here at the UGC is that there is nothing on offer to ‘keep’ the seeker ‘on any path’ or in endless hope for a future time.
    It is ALWAYS this immediate presence that is pointed to.
    The FACT of you own BEING.
    It is shocking to realize that one needs to be reminded of it.

  67. Posted by gilbert on 07.22.09 12:34 am

    Lets stir up some feelings.
    If I ever start to hold meetings on this subject, you won’t find a picture of Ramana Maharshi on the little table next to me. If the speaker can’t get the message across without superficial props, then they should just go home. It is pathetic behavior to say the least. Don’t give me that respect bullshit. These teachers are hoping the audience will make an automatic association of Raman with them. There is NO lineage with Ramana. He did not have a guru himself and he did not have any successors despite what anyone says. All this talk about him being the greatest sage of last century is hogwash.
    As I see it he said some very direct things at times.
    Almost all the so-called successors are weak, concept bound ‘teachers’ or they have wound themselves up in devotee worship.
    All these teachers are being bypassed as the clear and direct pointing is being shared across the globe WITHOUT all the devotee bullshit and the glorification of the messenger.
    In the appearance, this is a revolution. In Actuality it is nothing but the natural state opening up in hundreds or thousands who ‘hear’ the message, which is being presented here and in other places. The Guru Bullshit Days are OVER.
    You heard this news right here, right now. Don’t forget it.
    There are lots of video TV format things happening and the presenters are often the most boring self-indulgent performers. Pathetic. Drivel and dribble, sucking up to guests and wandering all over the place with silly questions.
    How anyone could keep going back to watch these pathetic displays is beyond my comprehension – but they do. Pathetic. Suckers for spiritual crap.

    As for the direct message without the bullshit, the UGC is definitely playing its part, as I knew that it would. The proof shows up consistently through emails and other forms of contact.
    There……that should raise a few eyebrows….
    We do promise to be controversial and we have to abide with our contract.

  68. Posted by Mark Roske on 07.22.09 12:36 am

    My Dad says, Moment to moment, it’s all in the play,
    If you keep a history, ya won’t “see” the way…

    Talking about Non Duality is like shoveling runny shit up hill~

    That’s Hilarious :)

  69. Posted by Richard on 07.22.09 4:19 am

    Sorry Gilbert, not even one eyebrow raised after reading your post.

    Now, if you said there was no Santa Claus…

    But seriously, thanks to you Gilbert, Areti, and the participants for bringing us these shows. I’m sure much work and time must go into the planning and executing of them.

  70. Posted by Peter on 07.22.09 5:04 am

    Gilbert, congratulations, well said, you speak from my heart.
    “The Guru Bullshit Days are Over!!! Good news for all of us!

  71. Posted by wenotwo on 07.22.09 5:22 am

    “The Guru Bullshit Days are OVER. You heard this news right here, right now. Don’t forget it.”

    Right-on ! Buddha, is purported to have said that at the next turning of the wheel the Buddha Maitreya will appear to guide so-called seekers as a friend to the Light of Knowing. And I can speak for all of us here that you have indeed been a good friend to us! No pictures of you here on my desk yet but the ones I’ve downloaded are spinning very fast on my hard-drive and like a buddhist prayer-wheel sending out tons of good fortune to everyone !

  72. Posted by dan on 07.22.09 5:44 am

    Walk into your local library. There will be a fiction section and a non-fiction section.

    The library would want you to believe that the non-fiction section tells you about things that DEFINITELY DID HAPPEN!! HONEST!

    “And this section over here, sir, is the fiction section. Stories…. told with lavish description and imagery.”

    The bombshell?

    It is ALL fiction.

    All of it.

    The ‘factual’ non-fiction section arises now as a story within and AS THAT which is. The story is absolutely and totally and immediately made of THAT.

    It is a convincing argument though. Many, many books, lots of detail. The one thing that amazes me is the absolute infinite creativity of THAT. It is mind-blowing.

    The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, 6 volumes.

    A mere trifle.

    The entire apparent history of the Romans rises and falls in this instant, this Is-ness.

    There is no direct evidence for it. Sure, there are lots of pottery jugs and parchments to support this empire. It is amazing just what lengths we will go to avoid THIS….. however, the clinging-on gets so ridiculous, and so desperate….. so extreme in its measures to keep avoiding and rolling on and on in the dream. It is quite endearing, even through all its pain and suffering… there is still a certain sweetness to it (because nobody is every truly hurt).

    So, fiction and non-fiction: another subtle division to help ram home the idea that there definitely is a time-line going on here…. “honestly, seriously…. trust me sir, believe it.”

    Nothing has ever happened.

    Even this isn’t happening. How can you grasp THIS? It cannot be grasped in time. It falls through your fingers like sand……

    It is already done. End game. There is no more sting in the tail of wasp.

  73. Posted by chris on 07.22.09 6:11 am

    Thank you Morgan, Gilbert and all for your replies. I sometimes get lost in the stories and give them belief and try to ‘figure out’ things that don’t seem to make sense to me , and sometimes ignoring what is always present and that it is all part of this.

    And one of the reasons I keep comng back is precisely because of this no bullshit approach. I have always found these ‘holy’ types suspicious.

    Looking forward to part 2.

    Chris

  74. Posted by Ralph on 07.22.09 6:24 am

    We all need some help in finding our way back home (which is HERE). I would not dismiss all so-called guru’s as bullshit. As in everything else, there are good ones and bad ones. I suggest you follow the ones that point and only point. Most of the work will have to be done by you.

    All it takes is to be earnest . The teacher that usually shows up is a reflection of where you are at the moment but if you stay truthful with yourself the right teacher will come along so all it takes is to be earnest with oneself.

    And if I can add who the fuck cares if the so-called guru has a picture of his guru or a picture of Michael Jackson or whatever on the table besides him, what counts is what he/she is saying .
    Forget about the messenger but instead listen to the message . If it resonates stay, if not move on to the next.

  75. Posted by wenotwo on 07.22.09 7:43 am

    “I would not dismiss all so-called guru’s as bullshit”

    “The objection to books about Advaita, including the translations of Nisargadatta’s words is that too much knowledge is given in them. That is an objection. People can use this knowledge, and especially the knowledge at the highest level to defend and maintain their self-conciousness. Knowledge, spiritual knowledge, can when there is no living master, be used again to maintain the “I”, the self-conciousness. The mind is tricky, cunning. Because Advaita Vedanta, without a good living ‘spiritual’ master, I repeat, a good one, can become a perfect self contained defence mechanism. It can be a plastic sack that leaks on all sides, but you can’t find the leak You know that it doesn’t tally, but it looks as if it does tally. That is the danger in Vedanta. Provided there is a good living master available, it can do no harm. But stay away from it if there is no master available! Provided it is well guided Advaita can be brilliant.”-Alexander Smit

    So that’s why the serious “seeker” should follow a traditional path, even to the extent of learning some Sanskrit! What is always happening in the apparent world is that we are continually looking outwards, trying to discover new things, ideas and pleasures; aiming “to boldly go where no one has gone before.” This is moving in the direction of increasing differentiation of name and form, further into the realms of ignorance, away from the essence that is forever unchanging.. Instead , we need to work backwards to discover that out of which all of this manifest creation arises, that which is the absolute essence of all!

  76. Posted by Morgan on 07.22.09 7:51 am

    ALL divisions are in thought, NOT reality. Thoughts distinctions don’t hold any water other than as practical ideas in the appearance.

    Dan – I liked what you said about all books/stories being fiction. So obvious and so true. “My favorite fiction is history”

  77. Posted by Morgan on 07.22.09 8:05 am

    Wenotwo – that’s why it’s always stressed here and elsewhere that what is being discussed isn’t knowledge. I agree that, in alot of pointing, too many “things” are talked about and the simplicity of what is can be missed but learning sanskrit or going to a “traditional” teacher isn’t going to make your life any more of an expression of being than it already is.

    This doesn’t need to be a long, drawn out process. All it takes is an instant of seeing. This seeing is happening RIGHT NOW.

  78. Posted by gilbert on 07.22.09 9:28 am

    Where are you seeing from?
    Is there an ‘I’ there that is seeing?
    Or is it simply pure seeing-knowing?
    Everything is an appearance in THAT.
    Recognizing this dissolves all conflict in mind.
    Even if someone stirs up the Hornets nest with a stick, no one gets stung, truly.
    Some may feel like they are mortally wounded by words.
    Nothing can disturb our true essence.

    If there is no conflict or psychological suffering, then why worry about anything.
    The KNOWING is all that there is.
    It is ONE KNOWING.
    Non Dual.

    You are THAT.

    All the talk in all the world won’t change THAT.

    Be happy.

    Who cares what anyone else thinks it is about.

    You KNOW.

  79. Posted by Ralph on 07.22.09 9:50 am

    Morgan, the reason it will most likely be a long , drawn out process is because you have been asleep for a long time and this so-called ‘you’ has accumulated alot of shit along the way. The awakening wlll occur in an ‘instant’ but first you will most likely go through a lot of ‘undoing’ before you arrive at your destination, which is RIGHT HERE, of course. In truth, you never left , it was always HERE.

    Editor:
    Ralph, you were invited to come on the program and share your insights and you declined, for whatever ‘reason’. You go on and on about the same things, ‘all the time’, as if you know this ‘awakening’ intimately. Yet it is obvious that it has NOT happened.
    IF such a thing has happened for you, you would NOT go on about in such a way as you do. That is the bluntness of this.
    The concept of an ‘awakening’ is very, very mis-leading. I will show you why:
    Are you asleep? No.
    Wakefulness IS. There is NO awakening.

  80. Posted by gilbert on 07.22.09 9:59 am

    Also…….for some, they hear the direct message and say “I just don’t get it”. Telling them that nothing ever happened is just useless, because the habit of mind dismisses it very quickly.
    So stirring up some ‘issues’ can assist these ones to re-examine things afresh. The ‘belief system’ needs a good shake now and then.
    Some ‘people’ assign me, Gilbert, to the ‘bad boys club’ because I don’t just point directly ‘all the time’. For whatever ‘reason’ it appears that ‘I play a role’ of stirring up the hornets nest. My reputation is the last thing on my mind – if it is there at all.
    Some really good stuff gets stirred up and everyone gets a chance to SEE what reaction happens (in themselves).
    There is absolutely NO POINT in pretending to know about non duality.
    You have to BE THAT one without a second.
    THEN, there is no concern what anyone says or does.
    This UGC sure beats the crap out of newspapers. We are thinking of making a newspaper actually, or a periodical full of humor and controversial stuff. The Urban Guru Rag. Bob Seal can do the comics.
    Imagine for a moment, thousands upon thousands, on trains, going home, reading a free newspaper (full of adds to pay for it) crammed with this stuff and some very clear articles pointing at ‘what is real’. All we need is someone with initiative and some financial backing to get it happening. Then the fight over ‘control’ over the content will happen – or not.

  81. Posted by davidb on 07.22.09 11:30 am

    Gilbert,
    I would also like to see a UGC ( advaitan ) singles site that would include open communication: “Who could be looking for Who” or “Me looking for a Me” or “Maybe my Me and your Me could mix. “Me chemisitry”, “Me Harmony”, “Me Connection”….

    ;>)d

  82. Posted by Ralph on 07.22.09 12:14 pm

    Gilbert, even if I come on the program to share my insights, they will be exactly the same as what I say in the comments page. You have to understand that there are other ways for one to see their true nature. Whatever works, right ? I’m sorry that it conflicts with yours.

    … and by the way, there is no one to get awakened. So relax, and let viewers comment as they wish.

  83. Posted by gilbert on 07.22.09 12:37 pm

    In this clear wakefulness ‘someone’ suggests that there is something ‘other’, something ‘higher’ to attain. That is misleading and is also incorrect. If you were to talk with Areti, she may sort out your erroneous concepts pretty quickly. Hiding in the comment pages won’t cut the cheese my friend. I am sure many agree with your sentiments but I can assure you that none of them ever had an ‘event’ called ‘awakening’. Those who go on and on about ‘the great awakening’ are deluded and they are missing the point altogether.
    SEEING-KNOWING is NOT post mind translation.
    ‘Seekers’ are stuck in the mind translations and that crusty way of being needs to be shattered. Even so, there is actually no one stuck anywhere – yet many feel like they are stuck. We are here to ‘point’ a way out of that stuck-ness.
    You demonstrate quite well, an intellect that is stuck. Please offer yourself for being freed.
    It is an invitation. Who is afraid?

  84. Posted by Michael S on 07.22.09 2:44 pm

    Gilbert I want to ask what you think about Eckhart Tolle, seems like everyone wants to stray away from that but, please don’t say who is the I that wants to know!

  85. Posted by dan on 07.22.09 5:34 pm

    Is anyone familiar with the phrase “there is an elephant in the room.” ?

    Gilbert, hope you don’t mind me linking this wiki page here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room

    As long as there is still the idea of there being an individual then we can say that there is an elephant in the room.

    It is infinitely vast, and impossible to ignore, but the individual ignores it and distracts him/herself. It is so present, yet it is brushed aside. The elephant is so clearly evident. Something so MASSIVE cannot be resisted for too long.

    The elephant is THAT.

  86. Posted by tomvds on 07.22.09 6:38 pm

    That pink elephant, called ‘ME’, is just a mirage; “when they shake off their wine, then will they repent (turn 180°)” – Jesus. Then they will stop asking silly questions here and there about other pink elephants or Eckhart Tolle for instance…

  87. Posted by gilbert on 07.22.09 7:55 pm

    What do I think about Eckhard Tolle? I don’t think about E T. Simple. But if pressed, some of his pointers are very clear, not all, by any means. There are so many concepts for the mind to latch onto and thus miss the essential pointing. I have heard him say some excellent phrases. It is obvious that his books have touched many and it is a good step away from the fixed religious views of the many. The reaction from the Church is typical. We had a Priest in Australia tossed out of his chapel because he promoted books by Tolle and others, including Bob Adamson. It looks like followers of some religions are more imprisoned by the church, temple or whatever, than by anything else.
    Whatever the view is, it is always limited and biased.
    The One Essence expresses itself as everything. Every atom is THAT. Perfect and un-mediated presence.
    In the appearance of things, there are many caught in stagnant waters and others in eddies on the edge of the river of life. What we point out here is ‘Dive into the River and go with the flow’.
    There is one basic ‘principle’, if you like, which over rides all these issues. You are not the form that appears, whether it be a body, a thought, a state, a mood or any ‘thing’.
    You are THAT which cognizes it ALL….and nothing more than THAT.

  88. Posted by Dennis on 07.22.09 8:40 pm

    In your recommendation to hold or have an enquiry into ‘who and what am I’…in walking that path of reason…

    …the foundational premise shows up thusly…that because all things rise and fall in space and time or because things make a fleeting appearance…
    then there must be a single dynamic source that contains all this ‘eventing’ and that this source could not have the characteristics of ‘things’ and thus would have no location, would be timeless or eternal and unchanging.

    This would render the single dynamic source as REAL and ABSOLUTE because only that which is unchanging and eternal can be considered REAL.
    It follows then that the existence(s) that are contained within this single dynamic source, these things that rise and fall in time and space, these things that undergo change….well, these things are only RELATIVE and FAKE…

  89. Posted by gilbert on 07.22.09 8:56 pm

    That which is cognizing is REAL. That which is cognized is the appearance.
    There is nothing that anyone can know that is not an appearance.
    The very thoughts arising are forms appearing and being cognized instantly.
    They are not the thoughts of ‘someone’ thinking them. They appear spontaneously.
    This spontaneous appearance is happening everywhere in the same timeless ‘moment’.
    What you ARE is reality. Who you think you are is psychology, words, ideas with attributed meaning. Mind translations.
    What appears is an expression that is ever-changing. Transient with no substance at all.
    See this changeful-ness for what it is. The seeing is stable and unchanging.
    You cannot hold onto a thought. Try it. Don’t just take my word for it.

    The definition of Reality is ‘that which does not change’.
    Phenomena is that which ‘appears to be’.
    There is no answer in the mind. When the mind is not, the understanding is clear, wordless and silent.
    The mind stirs and the habit of association with a long standing reference point kicks in almost instantly and everything is measured from that false point.
    The appearance is not fake, it is real in its immediacy. What you think it is is a representation in concepts, words and ideas.
    How are you going to negotiate your way around such activities?
    Only by stopping the mind and SEEING clearly that you are not a form, a body or a thought.
    We innately KNOW this but it has been covered over for so long, it seems hard to clear the decks.
    It is Non Conceptual Awareness.
    What can the mind do with such pointing, except come up with more and more concepts? You see, it is impossible to get to a conclusion that is real.
    The ultimate nature of all things is absence and that Absence in expression is Presence.
    This is why the pure cognition is empty and it is thus said that ‘Nothing ever happened’.

  90. Posted by dan on 07.22.09 11:07 pm

    All that which appears, all objects (including the body/mind), ideas, thoughts, events – ALL of them have NO POWER whatsoever to grasp what is being pointed to. It is not ‘set-up’ that way.

    They are all merely dream-objects

    Dream-events

    Dream-bodies

    Dream-ideas

    A dream body/mind cannot turn about and grasp what is being pointed to. A dream-object is simply part of the fabric of the dream. It has no real substance and power to do anything. All dream-bits are transparent…. they carry no weight, they rise and fall….. its just for display purposes. It is simply a performance.

    So, this recognition, this resonance of THAT doesn’t rest anywhere in particular. It does not belong to anyone. It doesn’t NEED to. It cannot. It is simply evident in all that appears. The best way that THAT can express itself outwardly is by BEING everything.

    Even when there is the deepest conviction that there is an individual here, then it is simply BEING imagining itself separate. It is STILL being. No escape. It is ALL Being. Even in the midst of confusion.

    What is being pointed to is that whatever is happening is happening without anything in the way.

  91. Posted by ana on 07.23.09 2:55 am

    Where i get stuck these days is the question of courage.
    Nisargadatta talks sometimes about the fear of the impersonal,
    Bob says in this program something like, “its yours right here, right now,
    just a matter of opening up, see it, realize it, and functioning from there”
    This last bit, “functioning from there”sounds as if there is someone who needs to take one’s stand there, as if there is sort of a choice, to be THAT
    and not hide again behind this anyway flimsy appearance.
    It all sounds bigger than it is, and i guess this is just the water seeking its way through the eddies and puddles to the fast flowing current of the river.
    But if anyone of you has something to say which could help unblock this stagnation
    would be greatly appreciated..

  92. Posted by Morgan on 07.23.09 5:40 am

    Ana, there is no stagnation. As Dan and Gil and lot’s of “others” say – ALL THERE IS IS BEING. The appearance of this is then labeled by thought as being separate things. Nothing is separate. There has never been a “person” or a “thing” apart from undivided reality. “You” have never existed as something apart – you are timeless and boundless awareness. Not a “body”, “mind” or any other image. Love.

  93. Posted by Betsy on 07.23.09 7:11 am

    regarding “good” pointers, I find that I can hear a pointer best when it is coming from some”one” who is fully integrated and able to speak from the heart (or seemingly so). Two different people can say the same exact words but the energy behind the words is often what gets my attention…. or not.

    To paraphrase A Course in Miracles, teaching is most powerful through “demonstration” (i.e modeling, being, etc), not through words.

    thanks for all the provocative shows!

  94. Posted by dan on 07.23.09 8:09 am

    All there is IS functioning from there. Realize that.

    That is what Bob meant. It is not a directive to a dream-character. More rather it is an open invitation to ‘see’ that functioning is happening from no centre. It is hugely paradoxical when we use words…. but they’re all we’ve got! So, to keep it real simple, it is an invitation from THAT to THAT to see that all there ever is IS THAT !

    !

    In seeing this one can laugh out loud about the absurdity of it all.

    Regarding fear: it seems that within the seeking ‘game’, the individual is drawn inexplicably towards what is being pointed to. But, at the same time there is a great fear about it all. It is a strange dichotomy. The individual is always and ever THAT, so is to some degree or other drawn to it……. but the other side of the coin is that the individual wants to stay alive, keep itself going, keep the dream of continuity happening…. time. It will do ANYTHING to keep the dream alive, no matter how ridiculous! Have you not noticed?!! Have a look around (read the newspapers!).

    The fear comes about due to the fact that on some deep level it is KNOWN that the recognition of THAT is married to the very absence of the sense of individuality. To the individual this is translated as: death. The individual doesn’t want to die. This is all largely conceptual and of no use…. but you did ask ana, so this is my 2 pennies worth.

    Even the sense of fear is THAT simply appearing as the ‘sense of fear’.

  95. Posted by Michael S on 07.23.09 9:30 am

    Thanks Gilbert, that’s all I wanted – a normal down to earth answer to a normal question, a conversation of sort. And you implied that he is self-realized or knows what he is talking about and that answered my other question.

    I’ll leave this snippet that is helping dismantle my search:

    All directions are within the mind! I am not asking you to look in any particular direction. Just look away from all that happens in your mind and bring it to the feeling ‘I am’. The ‘I am’ is not a direction. It is the negation of all direction. Ultimately even the ‘I am’ will have to go, for you need not keep on asserting what is obvious. Bringing the mind to the feeling ‘I am’ merely helps in turning the mind away from everything else.

    -Maharaj

  96. Posted by Mark Roske on 07.23.09 10:18 am

    Beautifully expressed, dan, on the “fear” thingy~
    And on E.T. , , , He was the first word of the first sentence of the first paragraph, of the Journey beyond the words. Many have resonated, yet many I know, feel that he fell a little short from the actual tree that offers No Promise of Anything but THIS~
    A possible door opener for the “mainstream” and in the appearance, some benefit seemed to happen……………………

  97. Posted by gilbert on 07.23.09 11:36 am

    Many have pointed in many ways. The natural state is already present but ‘we’ overlook it consistently because ‘we’ believe in what the mind is ‘translating’ and ‘we’ imagine that that translation is reality.
    The dream of a doorway, a stepping through or a journey – and the promise of a magical future ‘time’ – these are all appearances in the mind. Who is seduced by them?
    What is wrong with right now? If you don’t think about it.
    The amazing thing is that all the pointers point to the same…………non thing.
    The quote from Nisargadatta placed above by Michael is so potent, it almost jumps off the screen when you read it.

  98. Posted by ana on 07.23.09 1:50 pm

    After writing the last posting about fear and courage there was the perception
    that this is just the mind grabbing at everything to continue its existence.
    The believe in what the minds cooks up, instead of it just arising and falling.
    But the writing helped to put it out and notice it like that.

    And Dan and Morgan thanks for the replies, very good

    Came across this from Nisargadatta this morning:

    “It is the mind that tells you that the mind is there. Don’t be deceived. All the endless arguments about the mind are produced by the mind itself, for its protection, continuation and expansion. It is the blank refusal to consider the convolutions and convulsions of the mind that can take you beyond it.”

  99. Posted by wenotwo on 07.23.09 5:01 pm

    Funny that you like to entertain a conversation about ET, considering “look away from all that happens in your mind and bring it to the feeling ‘I am’” and “It is the blank refusal to consider the convolutions and convulsions of the mind that can take you beyond it.”.

  100. Posted by gilbert on 07.23.09 6:42 pm

    Are ‘we’ ready for the next installment? Part two is on its way. Deliverance is immanent.
    Ha. Some good comments happening and some great quotes also, which demonstrates that it is hitting home base all over the place. Part two is entertaining and who knows what will be next? Maybe a program called “Ad Infinitum”.

  101. Posted by mark on 07.23.09 7:26 pm

    “Thanks Gilbert, that’s all I wanted – a normal down to earth answer to a normal question, a conversation of sort. ”

    Measuring our so-called gurus by other so-called gurus (is the hidden agenda under the guise of a ‘normal conversation’), thus assuring that our investment (the CD’s, the retreats, the entertaining ideas about progres) is still on track, that we’re still on the right path will just do that; keep you on the path (to the next installment or whatever). Keep on truckin !

  102. Posted by gilbert on 07.23.09 11:31 pm

    The ‘Spiritual Scene’ probably has more pretentious members than any other group of ‘people’. If you are belonging to such a group, you don’t have to continue to be a ‘member’ – toss in the membership away and come and join the ‘Free Radicals’ at the UGC. Ha, labels are fun sometimes.
    All your arguments and all your accusations, all your preferences and all your dislikes reside in the dualistic mind. Freedom to express whatever comes up without ‘considering’ what someone may think about it is so easy. To see how a few words stir up trouble for those who ‘pretend to themselves’ that they are somehow beyond it all, is amusing to say the least. So, choose your words carefully and continue to believe that the next thought is chosen by YOU, if you must. There is absolutely no point in pretending to be the ‘knower’.
    That is the hidden agenda and it belongs to no one at all. ‘Who accuses who’, of what?
    You are only fooling your self – and there isn’t one. The sword of truth cuts ‘both ways’.
    Be warm towards your own being. Then with that warmth, see if there is any impulse to accuse another. ‘The enemy is within’ – seemingly so. It is belief in erroneous factors.

  103. Posted by Jacob on 07.24.09 2:12 am

    Hi gilbert, could you say anymore on the pointer , you know that you are. this sensce of presence. thanks man love jacob

  104. Posted by Djihi Drongo on 07.24.09 3:37 am

    We have to be pretentious for the sake of everyone ! How else can we have an outbreak of peace? Spiritual pride is what is called for! We should be assertive and if need be aggressive to put the message out there conscious of our importance in the deliverance of Human kind. Who else is going to save all those souls? The bodhisattva is motivated by compassion and seeks enlightenment not only for him/herself but also for everyone; we have the courage to stay in the dualistic realm, as a living link or bridge (on the other shore we’re not able to help), so as to help the lost souls towards realisation and eternal freedom. Only when all souls are rescued will we return to the non-dual realm.

  105. Posted by Michael S on 07.24.09 5:24 am

    @wenotwo and @ mark

    I never claimed to be realized, it’s funny that I like to entertain conversations and say that something I read is very helpful? What is so funny about that? Just because you look away from the mind when it tries to create a false identity for you, doesn’t mean you cease never conversing again, your right, maybe that one ET question wouldn’t have came up if I knew thy self… Then again even the so called conversation was oneness, funny that you assert or use your name as ‘wenotwo’ and then question conversations, maybe you are also stuck up in duality, so why pretend wenotwo? Why not just take the quote and if its useful its useful, instead of pretending you guys are know-it-all’s but rather you like to argue under the guise of knowing concepts learned from other GURUS (mark). I don’t see how you guys are doing anything differently then me…

  106. Posted by Morgan on 07.24.09 5:35 am

    Ana, if I may – no answer will ever be found in the mind, well, because THERE IS NO MIND. Look for it, where is it? A thought appears and disappears as quickly as it came – where is this “solid” and “real” thing called “mind”? There is just this sense of cognizant space/emptiness in which everything appears. THAT never leaves “you” because it IS you.

  107. Posted by chris on 07.24.09 5:41 am

    Gilbert said:

    ‘Many have pointed in many ways. The natural state is already present but ‘we’ overlook it consistently because ‘we’ believe in what the mind is ‘translating’ and ‘we’ imagine that that translation is reality.’

    Thanks Gilbert. I know you’ve probably said this many times in many different ways, but somehow this time it hit home.

  108. Posted by wenotwo on 07.24.09 6:19 am

    “I don’t see how you guys are doing anything differently then me…”; I agree.
    Sorry for being such a pain in the ass; I guess my bile was in the ascending the moment I wrote that. As Gilbert says “Freedom to express whatever comes up without ‘considering’ what someone may think about it is so easy”. I apologies also in the name of Mark which is my alias; Imagine yourself in my shoes , seeking realisation for at least two persona’s of mine … ! Anyway thanks for the Niz-quotes, they’re really inspiring !
    I just like to stir up the fire, too much! This stick has burned away now; there is no stick and no fire.

  109. Posted by gilbert on 07.24.09 10:54 am

    Bodhisattva Bullshit. There is No Bridge and the Banks of the River are not separated by the River – They are not even connected by the River. The Form is LIFE flowing, animating everything. The ONLY ‘place’ that this is absolutely clear and obvious is right there where the seeing is happening. Where you are seeing from is not a fixed ‘place’ in space or time.
    Space and time ‘appear’ in that clear cognition.
    Observe that the body is an appearance. It is an instrument. LIFE does not depend on that body – the body depends on LIFE.
    This awareness does not appear in a body or mind – the body and mind appear in or on the awareness.
    In SEEING this, all the conflicts of mind resolve themselves.
    What MORE could one want?

  110. Posted by Dennis on 07.24.09 12:14 pm

    In the enquiry it’s found that….

    Just as when there is everywhere nothing but water, we cannot say that there is a multitude of separate bodies of water, but a singular and continuous body of water; just so when there is everywhere only being, we cannot say that there is a multiplicity of separate beings, but a singular and continuous being.

  111. Posted by Michael S on 07.24.09 12:41 pm

    Thanks wenotwo, that was very brave of you, and it was good to read that instead of a rebuttal which would usually be the case on the internet. I want to apologize for something I wrote in another ugc post about how people who aren’t aware even while sleep should not claim to be enlightened, I take that back as I am in no position actually to claim anything.

    Anywho, keep on cognizing!

  112. Posted by gilbert on 07.24.09 1:33 pm

    In the dream, a claim is made, upon ephemeral ‘things’ – a claim made by a fictional character. In knowing the dream as a dream there is no need to be proud of being awake or to claim to be ‘enlightened’. Actually it is only the dream character that makes such claims. That is so obvious – yet the ONE appears as Everything, including those who claim to be above the masses of ‘seekers’. Whatever rises up, will fall, whatever appears will disappear – without a trace. ‘We’ want to leave a ‘mark’ to show we have been here – it is only Graffiti. No one was ever here. That is most unsavory for the believed in ‘me’.

  113. Posted by Michael S on 07.24.09 4:02 pm

    Yet we know all these enlightened people, with there blogs and whatnot pointing and fueling the seekers.

  114. Posted by al on 07.24.09 4:04 pm

    “Freedom to express whatever comes up without ‘considering’ what someone may think about it is so easy.”

    it sure is, too bad when we do it our comments get deleted .

    “good comments happening and some great quotes”

    niz quotes of course, your preference.

  115. Posted by areti on 07.24.09 5:19 pm

    Hey Al,

    Tried to send you this message but it unexpectedly came back (not unexpected at all actually):

    Thanks for posting. We do encourage people to talk about the topic rather than the person pointing – though the one pointing can sometimes be picked on, we do not go calling them names, we just say what it is about their pointing that is not clear. If you want to say stuff like that about any of the people pointing, please do so, but what does it achieve to call someone names? Especially seeing as I am going to moderate the site and stop that kind of shit from appearing!

    Be constructive. That is what people mean about being able to express whatever they like. Do you see anyone bagging anyone? No, they are talking about being free to air their understanding or misunderstanding of this stuff. Join the party.

    From my reckoning, Gilbert is one of the clearest ones out there – yeah he pushes people’s buttons but only if they bite. Focus on his pointings and you won’t be lead astray.

    Hope you are enjoying the shows.

  116. Posted by gilbert on 07.24.09 8:05 pm

    I am not the button pusher, nor the button pusher’s son. I am just pushing buttons ’till the button pusher comes. Anyone can send me abusive emails if they wish but it rarely happens.
    Posting them on here for everyone to see, is rather childish.
    I would happy and willing help.
    Nothing whatsoever is directed at them here. Words never hurt anyone. It is what you do with the words that hurts or not.
    Consistent direct pointing is only digestible in the appropriate ‘place’ and proportions.
    Here, we must surround the pointing with other ‘stuff’, be entertaining and controversial, or so it seems. Warmest regards to ALL – Gilbert.

  117. Posted by Djihi Drongo on 07.25.09 12:47 am

    Yes, and I would like to see that the ones with the right spiritual knowledge get their proper respect !
    Say, Gilbert can you eloborate on the concept of ‘vasanas’ and how to deal with them?

  118. Posted by gilbert on 07.25.09 2:11 am

    The new program is up now. Refresh your page, if it is not showing.

    The general meaning of ‘Vasanas’ is that they are the ‘effects’ of past impressions (Samskaras). It is said that the samskaras burn away in the instant of realization.
    In other words, in the immediate presence of pure knowing, it is seen that there is no past and no future. There is ONLY NOW.
    It is impossible for one who believes in the ‘personal identity’ to recognize this.
    Therefore, it is imperative that that one goes beyond the mind.
    ‘People’ or ‘seekers’ believe that this is virtually impossible.
    The FACT is it is simple.
    In ceasing thought for even an instant, the obvious clarity of non conceptual awareness is self-evident.
    The reverberation of the ‘belief system’, which is merely habitual thought patterns and the feelings associated with these thoughts, hang around. So one needs repeated tastes of this non conceptual awareness before it dawns on you, that that is what you are.
    Left to their own devices, it is highly unusual for ‘anyone’ to break out of the habits of mind. This is why it is necessary to have some clear directives from someone who knows the ways of the mind.
    This is all in the appearance of things.
    The Singular Essence has NEVER been burdened by concepts, just like the Sky is untouched by clouds.
    What you are has never been in bondage.
    It is only belief and non-investigated notions that stand in the way, in a manner of speaking.
    Even that is a conceptual framework that has no menaing apart from the meaning you give it.
    Just like empty space is impossible to grasp – this non-conceptual awareness is impossible to grasp with the mind. The ONLY WAY is via Empty Mind – No Mind.
    Full Stop.

  119. Posted by al on 07.25.09 5:59 am

    well, your editing of my post just proves my point!

    i’m not the one who refers to people as ‘nutters’, ‘idiots’, ‘lazy’ etc.

    funny how you equate critical with abusive. it’s the spirirual ego who sees any criticism as abuse. of course you don’t want “that kind of shit from appearing”. it would conflict with your opinion of yourself as one who is free and clear. and you’ve got yourself a buffer (hi dear), how appropriate. how’s life up on that pedastal?

    i do look at the pointings but that doesn’t mean i or anyone should ignore everything else. why should it! it comes up!

    if “the samskaras burn away in the instant of realization” one would be a clean slate with no personality, likes/dislikes, stubborn views etc. left over. as long as you’re associated with a body/mind they’ll be here. you’re not as perfect as you seem to think.

    oh forgive me o great one for not giving the ones with the right spiritual knowledge get their proper respect. ha ha

  120. Posted by areti on 07.25.09 8:21 am

    Al, I will leave this note of yours up as you posted it. No editing.

    Gilbert seems to enjoy this to and fro. Bob enjoys things too. We all can.

    Rather than focus on my message you assume I am a ‘dear’, how sweet (not), I would say undermining to my ‘persona’ (if I want to engage that story). When the story arises that ‘this is this, and that is that’, it is a sign that all is not well – you are engaging in the story instead of seeing ‘through the story’ – so that is why I suggest you stay focused on the message. And it seems that you think that you are focused on the message, better focused than Gilbert even. Well, that too is a trap. Engaging in the ‘this person is clearer, I am clearer’ story is not worth engaging in. But it happens of course. Like Bob kept directly pointing at me: it did not matter what anyone told me about it, I needed to focus on my own immediacy, not contemplate others’. That was where the truth lay. So, that is why I suggest we talk about the message instead of the messenger, about our own truth and questions or answers and not about whether I am a ‘dear’ or not.

    There is something in this post though that lets me see that you have made an assumption of this non-duality. You have assumed that those who are enlightened somehow drop all their human failings (and you have also interpreted them as such, another assumption about this non-duality), and are free from them. You have interpreted ‘free’ to mean that the person will behave with certain decorum. What did Nisargardatta say once?…it was something like this…That’s the difference between you and me, I don’t care if I offend anyone…

    Why not ask those out there what they think about this idea of yours that someone who is enlightened suddenly behaves in a particular way? That other expression comes to mind – Before enlightenment – chop wood, carry water, after enlightenment – chop wood carry water (my god, even the order doesn’t change round). Maybe we will ask our next guest the question.

    That’s what I am trying to tell you.

  121. Posted by Michael S on 07.25.09 8:28 am

    It seems that after enlightenment suffering drops, personality stabilizes without the repressions, but otherwise all is normal on the worldly level and that is how it would appear to you ‘al’, but those who know what or who they are know that nothing really matters but in a good way, not a bad sense. I mean just because you are eternal and pure consciousness does it mean that you are just going to sit all day and do nothing, there is no one to sit and do nothing anyway that is what is happening regardless- consciousness. Life continues, the normalcy will end at death, that is where enlightenment is really at, not even Nisargadatta knew what was next but that he wouldn’t have a body to lug around at least so to speak. I mean from glimpses that happened to me, this is how it seems, life is more lucid, you know you are eternal, but your not thinking or all the time going around being different because of it, innate conditioning differs from mind conditioning my friend!

  122. Posted by gilbert on 07.25.09 10:46 am

    What is being pointed at is ever-present. It is timeless. It is wordless. It is reality.
    As long as there are ‘gods’ in the mind, a guru, money, fame, notoriety, a believed in ‘entity’ there will be trouble and obscured vision.
    This is very difficult to point accurately at, because words are limited and the structure of sentences always brings complexities. Yet something is possible.
    What I am pointing at is what I call ‘the clear space of knowing’. THAT is always ‘here’ – it is the basis or ground of all appearances – ALL appearances without a single exception.
    In the realm of appearances, and in the scheme of things, I am doing the reader a favor when I stir up responses. The angry response is an automatic response that spring up naturally. There are thousands of believers who THINK that everything should be rosey and loving BUT it isn’t and the increase their suffering immensely but placing so many restrictions on themselves and those around them. They themselves cannot live up to their IDEAL image of HOW things should BE and yet they punish all those around them with unnecessary judgments and accusations. When one of these ‘types’ reads some of my words, they spin off in a tyrannical mind dance, a dance of automatic reactions and ‘hatred’ towards me. There is a rare opportunity to SEE this activity for yourself, clearly and precisely. It will not just go away because I THINK I am a spiritual person and I meditate every day etc. It has to be SEEN before the habit is broken.
    Now if anyone cannot recognize that I am playing devil’s advocate, what can I do?
    How can they get past their OWN samskaras without SEEING them.
    If they imagine that they can HIDE from life and all its diversity, then they are dreaming. That hiding is the BUFFER. Dismantle it yourself.
    And above all, It is all simply words.
    “Don’t go sticking your head in a Hornet’s Nest” is good advice – yet it seems that one’s own mind is a hornets nest and one needs to get to the core of it all.

    If you want to do battle with me over your own ego, then you will lose. If you hang onto old ideas you will drown in a pool of self-centered-ness.
    As I have said many times: There is NO POINT in pretending to KNOW this stuff.
    You have to BE IT.
    Mind you, ‘They’ will come gunning for you if you open your mouth and speak.
    “People’ are stupid – you only need one idiot to turn a crowd into a mass of violent behavior. Go that way if you want, they way of the masses. The best way is to investigate your own consciousness (individuality) and DISCOVER what is TRUE.
    This Clear Space of Knowing – where un-adulterated SEEING is happening.
    Once this is clear, all the doubts and arguments will be a faint memory.

  123. Posted by Ralph on 07.25.09 11:17 am

    hmm… let me see if I get this…

    “before enlightement your’re an asshole……. after enlightement you’re still an asshole.”

    Difference being that now the seeing of being an asshole is crystal clear. :)