51. Paul Hedderman In Recovery – Part 3
Posted August 21, 2009
By admin
Final part to this interview on Recovery, recovery from believing in being a separate ‘self’.
Please listen to all three programs to hear the complete interview. Paul holds meetings in California.
Paul’s Website is ZenBitchSlap.….click HERE
Music includes: Massive Attack, Tom T. Hall, Cat Stevens ‘Mathew and Son’, Cheb i Sebbah, Bob Dylan, Loudon Wainwright, Traveling Wilbury’s, The Beatles, Ten Years After, Flamenco Arabe and Kenny G underneath Paul’s voice near the programs end.
The Urban Guru Cafe is a free podcast. Small donations are welcome. Use the donation tab on this page, just under the coffee cup icon.
Here it is. Enjoy.
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swell
great quote on Paul’s website:
“To reach the supreme state, methods are of no use! However, you will
continue to revel in concepts until you understand yourself.”
- Nisargadatta
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person . . . looking
no person . . . seeing
My pointer for the day thanks to Paul
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massively infectious laugh too!
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” person . . . looking
no person . . . seeing ”
Thanks Ronna
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hippopotami
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I liked Paul’s analogy of the couch he used to make reference to how we invalidate the immediacy of ‘the here and now’, by projecting a desire brought on by a perceived lack of something into the future,’there’.
This reminds of SNM saying something similar like:We are unhappy because we want what we don’t have(the need to modify the immediacy of the present moment due to a perceived lack of being incomplete) and don’t want what we do have(the untranslated actual immediacy of the present,which is whole and complete).This can be remedied by reversing the action.
Ps-great program, really enjoyed it. Many thanks!
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About muliple enlightenments: In Zen this is thought to be not uncommon. There can be several kensho experiences, brief glimpses. Even satori, a deeper experience is not the final nirvana.
About losing it: Papaji’s group used to be called the I got it, I lost it group. When asked about that, Papaji said, some people aren’t worthy to keep it. Even though his teacher, Ramana told him, whatever comes and goes is not it.
I liked what Bob said about losing it but don’t remember his words, just the gist of it (maybe some Bobaphiles can recall the exact quote or correct my understanding): When it is seen that there is no one there, who is it that can lose it?
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Looking prevents seeing . . . that’s a good one Paul
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Hey Areti, quick question…
“Yeah?”
– This question brought to you by rhinocerii.org /asm
Results from latest UGC Poll in!
Tom T. Hall – YES
Kenny G – NO
Shout out to John ‘Wheels’ Wheeler!
Ed: Kenny G was included because I heard that Paul likes Kenny G music. I had never heard it before but I slipped it in there for Paul. – G
Paul H., hombre?
May need to slip it back out…
–Geronimo, Jerry Garcia, Lincoln, & YHWH
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Paul’s existential schtick a la Seinfeld thrills…
The antics of the ego…truly hilarious and somehow adorable…
The skills set blend of Gil and Areti simply shines invisibly in the background week after week…
What a Banquet we share.
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The plural of hippopotamus is hippos.
I hope everyone here is signing up for the retreat being given by Paul, the working title being “What To Do With It Now That You’ve Got It”.
Gilbert will be there to lead us in a group hug.
Ed: Richard, another brilliant and insightful post. Thanks for contributing.
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Be nice.
-BNice
Just a thought:
Bob Marley — http://www.bobmarley.com
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Questioner: You use the words ‘aware’ and ‘conscious’. Are they not the same?
Nisargadatta Maharaj: Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience.
Sri Nisargadatta quote from Charlie Hayes blog site.
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Thanks Suki – great quote. Of course there isn’t a real duality but it’s a good conceptual description. Though there appears to be duality, it’s all just awareness/being. Consciousness is an appearance of and within this.
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This MP3 was superb–I can tell because the track looped in my player before I knew it–I enjoyed it throughout. Excellent job Areti & Gilbert for a Part 3 no less.
On getting it and losing it from prior threads, this is likely not an uncommon topic in ANY reality group that meets and discusses viewpoints or personal status on a regular basis–even John Wheeler felt he had it and lost it until Bob reminded him in a couple seconds that presence awareness is, no matter what’s appearing.
One reminder I’ll say is that when clarity or even extreme clarity is seemingly exchanged for a problematic landscape, just take a look and see that it’s not only the narrow focus and issues cropping up, there’s also the little buddy (me) concept also arising–both the problem and the me arise on the scene inseparably.
Little c consciousness still registers without a hitch in what you are whether it’s the pure functioning of the senses, care-free thoughts, and a feeling of extreme clarity OR the thoughts of what am I going to do, I can’t believe this is happening, I can’t believe I saw it and just lost it, I wonder if others go through this like me (see all the I’s in that?–isn’t the little buddy a good time?)
See what you need to see and understand that the absolute is never altered; no matter what is appearing. You never condense as a specific object or group of personal objects and thoughts that you can call yourself. Since everything is appearing in what you are, there’s no way you can take a true position as a subset of little c consciousness, gather those concepts and objects together, claim those gathered concepts and objects as somehow separate from the vast little c’s appearing and say that this is what I am and all of the other little c’s are being mean to me or treating me harshly or I’m just not getting it. This melodrama always appears in the whole and complete clarity whether there’s a resistance to it being seen or not.
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Give me a break. Consciousness = Awareness = Being.
Who cares what Niz said? He spoke Maghadi for Christ’s sake.
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Give me a break. Consciousness = Awareness = Awakeness = Knowing = Being = Everything = Nothing = Cosmic Farting Contest.
Who cares what Niz said? I love Niz too, but he spoke Maghadi for Christ’s sake. The distinction he makes between “Consciousness” and “Awareness” is probably due to differences in the languages and rough translating. Charlie just likes to confuse the shit out of people. Notice how the content of his message is constantly changing depending upon who he happens to be worshipping during any given week. This week he’s on a big “Love” trip and worshipping Baba Muktananda. Maybe this ordinary awakeness isn’t what it’s all about then — Charlie is experiencing this wonderful state called Unconditional Love. It sounds so lovely and blissful. Maybe I should keep searching for this elevated state of awakeness called “Love”. Or maybe Charlie is just some old fart on social security who sits around dreaming shit up all day.
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My pointers for today
Ronna seemingly arises within not-Ronna . . . I AM not-ronna
This seemingly arises within THAT . . . I AM THAT
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Reality/Wakefulness/Life is automatic. The Me and the You are just concepts and not problems, but the translations can seemingly turn into problems. Maybe more helpful is to mention that the Me has no solidity. It takes the Wakefulness for a Me or a You to even seemingly appear. For those who take things prescriptive and literally in a desperate attempt to understand, it may not even be helpful to say You know You Are and You are Aware. They will say who is that You? I thought I wasn’t supposed to be a reference point even as the Absolute? Existence Is and there’s no separation from Existence. To say You know that You Are may resonate as one level removed from pure Knowing. I had a chuckle when I read about one of Robert Adams’ former students who called him to mention that the Me fell away and only Existence was evident, so he was really scared that there was no more Me. Robert Adams asked him who he thought was on the phone then? It is a You in the conceptual sense, but there’s no solidity to that reference point. It’s all appearing in Existence/Knowing.
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Kimo,
I remember when I first discovered Nonduality. I found this paradox terribly confusing — “There is no You” and yet “You are That.”
But then I read one of John Wheeler’s books — I remember this very clearly, because it was such a huge relief at the time. The line went something like, “What you are is No-Thing, and therefore there is no one.” Somehow that line jarred loose the confusion.
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Nisargadatta spoke Marathi. Does the language or the fact he spoke many years ago invalidate what he said? I’d rather go by his words than the words of the presently alive English speakers posting here. Excluding myself, of course.
On the old Advaita Show the host started talking of the the big C consciousness and the little c consciousness. Bob Adamson corrected him by saying something like, There you go again into duality, differentiating a big C from a little c.
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Ha, more good stuff from Paul. I’m fortunate enough to live in San Francisco, literally 10 minutes from where Paul gives his talks, and about 100 minutes from where John Wheeler gives his down in Santa Cruz. I thought I might share what the talks are like for those who have never been, and also share some personal thoughts on the idea of “Transmission”.
Paul gives two talks a week in SF, and one in Marin. I’ve never been to the one in Marin. The SF talks are held Wednesdays in a meeting room in the back of a church, and on Monday in a meeting room in the back of a café run by people in recovery. The café has a different meeting for addicts across the hall at the same time as Paul’s and inevitably a few people always walk out of Paul’s talks once they realize he’s not making any sense. He actually lets people know at the beginning that it’s not a standard AA meeting and that there’s an NA meeting across the way. People either don’t listen or they decide to give him a chance, but a few always leave. Overall I’d say the group can number anywhere from 15 to 45. The café gets a bigger crowd than the church meetings.
Paul is the most high energy nonduality speaker I’ve ever seen. He practically yells at times. He talks fast and jumps from topic to topic. Sometimes I just tune it out and rest as the presence. Other times I try to make sense of everything he says and bundle it up into something I can take home with me but that will start to wear me out so then I’ll just rest. He tells some hilarious stories about his using days. One thing is for certain, Paul has done more drugs than I have, and probably more than you have too. He also reveals personal thoughts he’s had regarding women and relationships that turn out to be exactly the same thoughts I’ve had, and since many of the people laugh after he says them, they must have had them too. I think that’s why he shares them, to show the universal nature of our conditioning and how that’s not who we are. He generally talks for about 55 minutes and then someone will start passing around a basket for donations. At this time he’ll see if anyone has any questions. Usually only one or two people have time to ask something. One odd thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of the people who go to his meetings are serious cheapskates. Some don’t donate anything, many others just throw a dollar in, or a few coins. There’s no recommended donation. Maybe it’s an AA thing that I don’t understand. Hopefully he gets to use the rooms for free.
John Wheeler holds his 90 minute talks on Thursday nights at a cultural center where they teach yoga etc. It’s funny because I don’t think of Wheeler as new agey yet the place has kind of a new agey feel. There’s a little donation basket on a table outside the meeting room. I’ve been to three meetings there and there are usually 10-15 people. We arrange the chairs in a circle. I saw him speak in two other cities closer to SF which drew slightly larger crowds. He used to play guitar and sing a few songs (very well) but he recently injured his shoulder so now it’s only talking. He speaks slowly, clearly and calmly, with no sense of defensiveness. Much like how a scientist who’s pointing out the present incontrovertible experience of gravity would speak. I went last week and was fully engaged and present with virtually every word spoken. I imagine if a person wandered in off the street accidentally, chances are they would be bored to tears and resentful for being subjected to such a boring talk, even though it was their fault for walking in. The pointing is so incredibly direct and what’s strange is that although there are certain words that you’ll hear repeatedly, such as presence and being, it seems you’ll never hear the same sentence twice. I’ve read his books and it’s the same phenomenon. How can you talk about this stuff in such a direct way for four books and not repeat yourself? It’s as if it’s always new and fresh.
Now, is there any “Transmission” happening at these meetings? I guess it depends on what you mean by transmission. I used to go to a “Satsang” where the concept of transmission was kind of implicit in every meeting. The idea I had of it was that the teacher had some mystical property or invisible substance and they would somehow beam it over to me, either by being physically nearby, or with direct eye contact. At some of these meetings, yes, I would experience surges of sensations, or would see the light in the room get brighter and darker as I stared at the teacher, or see the visual field shift or warp a bit. At first I accepted it was the teacher causing this stuff and that I was making progress, but later I noticed if I sat on my sofa very still and stared at one spot on the other side of the room for long enough, the same type of things would happen. Ultimately all the things I experience are arising within this awareness, whatever it is. The moment I believe in transmission, suddenly there’s a me here and a me there, and my me is worse off and lower than the me over there. Basically not a fun way to see things, unless of course that me over there is very, very special and my me over here is now special by association. Here’s what Peter Brown, UGC’s last guest, has to say about transmission on his web site:
“The phenomenon generally called “transmission” or “initiation” (also variously known in different traditions as darshan, diksha, shaktipat, empowerment, etc.) is an experience of transformative vision or deep insight that may seem to occur in the presence of a clear being. What this phenomenon IS is a mystery, but that it can occur is an evident fact. It is characterized by occurring as a result of proximity, and not through normal means of communication like language.
It might be a direct resonance of ones own energy state with that of the clear being, resulting in the opening of ones experience from its habitual frame of reference. But whatever the mechanism, this phenomena is a significant aspect of the efficacy of satsang.”
Hmm, this sounds like quite a complex little belief system if you ask me. There may be a grain of truth to it but why does it have to be so mystical? Maybe it’s as simple as being with another human being who is totally comfortable with who they are and not trying to get anywhere. Maybe it rubs off a little by association. Kind of like if you spent the weekend hanging out with Robert Deniro and Jack Nicolson while they rehearsed various roles. Maybe you’d be a little better at playing pretend afterwards.
I personally love this sense of presence and when I go to the meetings, it’s a time to really focus in on it, to value it I guess you could say. And when everyone else in the room is valuing it, then maybe that somehow intensifies it. You can imagine a different scenario where everyone in a room is running around pointing at different pieces of furniture, or things on the wall and yelling, “Look at that! Look at that!”. It would be a different kind of meeting for sure.
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One thing I forgot to mention about John’s talks is that there is lots of dialoguing that happens. John may start off talking but he then opens it up for discussion. He’s shows incredible patience with folks and also encourages others to share their insights.
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No Richard, it doesn’t invalidate what he said. You completely misinterpreted what I said. Whatever words Niz actually spoke are clearly not the EXACT same words that one finds in the English-translations of his books. Why? BECAUSE HE DIDN’T SPEAK ENGLISH. Do you honestly think that every word in a given language has an exact 1:1 corresponding word in every other language, connotations and all? The point is, the word that actually came out of Niz’s mouth that was then translated to “consciousness” may have been only an approximate or rough translation due to lack of a better one. How can we know for sure unless we speak his language?
In the context of nonduality in English-linguistic culture “Consciousness” and “Awareness” are so often used interchangably that it would be unnecessarily complicated and CONFUSING to make a distinction between them strictly on the basis of one non-english-speaking man’s translated interpretation.
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Mike, that was an interesting post. Thanks for giving us an idea of how it is to be in those meetings.
I haven’t looked it up recently but I thought that some snakes DO chase people, mainly the sidewinder type snakes.
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Richard,
The african black mamba is well known for chasing people and being able to stand erect and look directly at eye level to one.
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Friar Tuck, Sorry if I mistook your meaning. I agree with you about translations. In fact I said the same thing in a previous post, about how most Nisargadatta books in English are transcriptions of the translators’ translations at the meetings.
More accurate would be translating Nisargadatta’s Marathi into English now, at leisure. I think this may be being done presently.
But I think if we read the satsang trancripts plus translations of Nisargadatta’s own writing, plus translations of his guru’s writings and talks, and co-disciple Ranjit Maharaj’s English satsangs and interviews, a general idea of the teaching can be gathered.
On the other hand, several of us can attend a meeting in English, and all go away with a different version of what was said. This forum is indicative of how different people pick up on differing aspects of the UGC interviews.
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Why don’t we skip the semantics and syntax and get to the STRAIGHT POINTERS, the most DIRECT POINTERS.
Areti, what would be your most DIRECT POINTER, if you could give only one to someone…?
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Yeah, let’s just have this out, for chrysanthemum’s sake.
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Hey vlad, why don’t you go impale yourself on Michael’s erect pointer.
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Friar Tuck. et al,
The Alabama black snake is well known for chasing people and being able to stand erect and look directly at eye level to one in California prison systems… bCareful
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I did ask that you not slaughter each other. I wonder why7 I made that request? Obviously because the tendencies are clearly present, even in some words on a screen. Children? Grown men? Mature individuals? Non existent egos?
There is no answer in the mind. Tossing and turning in the mind will not bring some new clarity. There is no entity here. Where is the SEEING happening?
Is there language there or simply a vivid emptiness? Opinions are endless.
If ‘I’ can convince ‘another’ about my ‘beliefs’ does it make this ‘I’ more secure?
NO. It is all ephemeral, spacious appearances.
Find to center of it all if you can.
Who is looking? For what?
Nisargadatta understood English well. There may be a very good ‘reason’ why he chose not to speak it. Her would often interrupt the questioner mid sentence – not waiting for the interpreter to translate the question into English. One should recognize that the words are just words. There is ‘something’ else going on.
The knowing is not in the words.
There is on basic principle that everyone appears to miss.
The pattern appears in the knowing. The pattern knows nothing.
Because the pattern is closely associated with the knowing, belief arises that the pattern in the knowing. Error 1 in the first instant of ‘mentation’. One must uncover this error – once may well be enough.
“I think such and such”…….the ‘I’ cannot think.
Recognize that.
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I wonder why all realized men where vests? I’ve seen a Gilbert video where he is wearing a vest, same one was Tolle.
be aware now.
Ed: There are NO realized men, women or beings. BEING is self-realizing AS everything – As it IS.
What the mind translates is just just patterns appearing. The knowing is not in the persona, the vest, the man or any pattern.
One BEING – One Awareness.
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Pointers. Reality is vast spaciousness which cannot be contained within words. Yet if you want pointers, pointers, pointers, here are some by Ranjit Maharaj. Read them at your own risk…. of forming them into static, contracted concepts:
“Be without the experience. That is the experience.”
“Why worry, everything is nothing. How can nothing touch you?”
“Forget everything and you are there. How much time it takes?”
Stack up all the pointers and maybe you can climb them to heaven.
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Yeah but whats with the Vest pattern!
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So I have been checking out this site for awhile now and at the beginning I would be completely frustrated and wonder “what the hell are these people talking about!?” and now I seem to know that “me” is only thought and that all thoughts, all things are seemingly appearing in this seeing-knowing that somehow is what I am. My chopping wood and carrying water seems to be different and quite enjoyable, I sense relief, joy, and laughter for seemingly no apparent reason other than “me” seems to not be present and when it is I seem to be able to see that and just let it kind of dissolve? I haven’t seen much posted here that mentions this? What effect if any does seeing-knowing have on the chop wood, carry water part of life?
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I can counter the zen quote chop wood carry water. Before enlightenment, shoot heroin and ruin families… after enlightenment neither of the aforementioned!
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Scarfo: you begged Areti for a quote; how about the one from Gilbert–
“The pattern appears in the knowing. The pattern knows nothing.”
That’s about as good as I’ve seen on this current page.
Should be more than enough to get one “vested” in what this is all about.
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Ronna,you asked:”What effect if any does seeing-knowing have on the chop wood, carry water part of life?”
For me there is no fundamental change at the appearance level of things,but a radical change from being less reactionary and more responsive in daily interactions with the reality one is confronted with. Also,may add that there is no “Vested” interest in the outcome of things,a general sense of ease and wonder at what’s happening ‘Now’!
The other benefit is, significant reduction in mental chatter and therefore a much peaceful and quieter mind.
Warm regards,Suki
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Or, when chopping wood and carrying water, there is no one chopping and no one carrying.
There is only the action without an actor.
And if there is no actor, then there is no one to assess how they are reacting. No one to assess the condition of the mind. No one to assess ease and wonder.
Chop wood and carry water… without anyone to assess anything.
The action without an actor.
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Thanks Suki, I do notice a sense of ease and wonder at what’s happening as it is happening without being concerned about outcomes and that is a very welcome change to me. I seem at times to be like a very delighted child and that is also very different from the serious “me” that seemed to be present most of the time. I find it a bit difficult to put what I am sensing into words especially here where the wording is very important. I understand that there are no thoughts, ideas, words, methods etc. that can describe seeing-knowing so pointers are necessary and they must be clear.
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Understanding is silent. The natural state has NO words at all.
As I say often: There is absolutely no point in pretending to yourself or to anyone else that you perceive ‘out there’ that you know ‘this stuff’. You simply chase concepts imagining that you will capture some absolute truth – this game betrays you consistently. Exhaustion does bring a fresh view but ONLY when the mind has exhausted all avenues of biased points of view. The silence is always present but it is ignored in preference for whatever concept that happens to arise – it is claimed as ‘mine’ and the attachment leads the believed in ‘you’ astray instantly.
Who do you think that you are? Don’t pass over the question so quickly.
Who do you think that you are?
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Paul is definitely speaking from a place where I am just beginning to recognize. I really enjoyed listening to part 3. Thank you.
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No Knower
No Thinker
No You
No Me
No Answer
seeing-knowing
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Ronna,
As Gilbert says:”Understanding is silent. The natural state has NO words at all.”
The immediacy of ‘Seeing/Knowing is startlingly clear and obvious. Experientially there is nothing more intimate than this. Where you are ‘Seeing’ from is where I am ‘Seeing’ from, a vast nameless wonder…….Total,Seamless and Silent!
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Mike,
Thanks for sharing the info about Paul and John’s meetings.
Captured something for me that would have remained unformed.
For me the pointer so far in this thread is no-thing, no-one.
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Kimo writes, “…one of Robert Adams’ former students who called him to mention that the Me fell away and only Existence was evident, so he was really scared that there was no more Me. Robert Adams asked him who he thought was on the phone then?”
This E.M. story reminds me of another phone call. A man in a phone booth phoned Bob Adamson to say he was free and didn’t have to do or not do anything. Bob told him to see if he could not leave the phone booth.
When the spinning fan is disconnected, it keeps spinning until it winds down.
About pointers, Leo Hartong says descriptions and not prescriptions are the more valuable pointers.
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Gilbert,
Would you explain these 2 statements:
“The pattern appears in the knowing. The pattern knows nothing.”
“Stop thinking & stop talking and there is nothing you will know” (I don’t know if this is quoted correctly. )
Thanks,
Sully
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From a version of the Hsin Hsin Ming: “Stop talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able to know”.
The pattern appears in the knowing AS the knowing. And as the knowing, it continually knows. Ya know?
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If I had to reduce all the pointers to one, it would be Bob Adamson’s “The answer is not in the mind”. Together with “neti-neti” – not this, not this, rejecting every thought or formula that appears – it is the one that most effectively has brought and brings the mind’s activities to a full stop, and only seeing-knowing reminds…
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The pattern knows nothing because there is no pattern that can ever get behind the knowing or possess the knowing.
Eckhart Tolle doesn’t have any more knowing than the vest he wears.
Neither does Gilbert. Neither does the pre-packaged Kimo personality/writer/speaker who you assume I am. Nobody can get this because there is nobody (no pattern) who is capable of getting anything or understanding anything. The one source of it all is the knowing, and all arising patterns have zero usurping ability to claim any awareness or knowing whatsoever. The You that is the Knowing right now is not a pattern. The person object/complex/personality you think you are is a transient appearance that is appearing with all its qualities in the substratum of unobjectifiable knowing that you are.
Until this sinks in, you’ll constantly be self-referencing yourself as some object; wondering when you’ll get it. You the Person won’t ever get anything. Nisargadatta never got anything and neither did Bob. All of those personages are simply patterns arising in the Knowing you never were separate from. That (the knowing I’m pointing to) is what You Are.
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Thanks All…
I think I was mixing up the pattern with the Knowing. The Knowing is real & is all there is & the pattern is just an appearance in that Knowing.
As the Knowing do you feel detached from what is appearing?
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The pattern is form appearing in the formless – form and formless-ness are not two.
The pattern (any form) is an expression of the one Essence.
The activity of knowing is the primary movement (which animates and ‘creates’ the form(s).
The body starts off as a single cell (egg) and divides into multiple cells that we name as ‘the body’. The intelligence that ‘creates’ it all is singular, infinite.
The knowing does not change – the ‘known’ is forever changing and it appears as an unfolding of an infinite pattern (fractal). Duration, time, space, volume all appear in the knowing.
The explanation is not the knowing.
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Here is a great pointer from Paul:
“That looking was blocking the natural seeing. The freedom is in the seeing not in looking, they are totally different. The seeing is the freedom so the freedom is freedom from looking.”
.. in other words, the person (false self) is doing the ‘looking’ and the ‘seeing’ is what you truly are (natural seeing).
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The looking is constrained(mental overlay due to self referencing) and usually focused on the particular, leading to a distorted and fragmentary perception of how things actually are. On the other hand Seeing is open and receptive,effortlessly shifting awareness from the particular to the universal,without the habitual mechanism of self referencing, distorting or tainting the direct experiencing of the actual. The Seeing is whole, totally natural and effortless!
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There is SEEING happening. The ‘me’ can not see. The ‘me’ is nothing but ideas. An idea cannot see. The story of me is a story – words, images and memory strung out on a thread of biased attention. Awareness is not bound to a line, curve or shape.
All things ‘appear’ in or on awareness.
The KNOWING is NOT in the patterns that appear, including the body. The living responses of body and mind are awareness in expression, transitory and fleeting.
Reality has no duration – the continuum of pure experiencing cannot be negated.
All experiences are descriptions attached to a reference point that we call ‘me’ amongst other names. All measurements ‘made’ by the mind rely on a point of reference and it is invalid. There is no center and no circumference to PRESENCE. There is no entity here.
Immaculately clear and obvious – everything is awareness and awareness does not need belief, even though belief appears, it has no substance that is separate from what you actually are. EVERYTHING IS AWARENESS.
This profundity may leave you speech-less.
Only the so-called mind seemingly divides this PRESENCE into ‘parts’ and then believes that these parts are reality. Who is misunderstanding what?
It is all concepts – and a concept is not anything that can stand alone.
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Yes! All there is is awareness.
But for awareness to pick its nose, it needs the appearance of a finger and a nose (at least.)
Same with anything else.
Seeking and ‘finding’ are strictly appearances.
What is revealed is THAT which is the ‘ground’ of appearances.
In that revelation it can be seen that there are no seekers, finders, confusion and….. revelations…
There is only THAT.
(More of that gateless gate paradox.)
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Do some people “get this” and other’s don’t? And then some are able to pretend they get it and almost write about it clearly but no quite or just stumble on saying the right things?
But then those that “get this” didn’t get anything because what they realize is there’s no one there to “get it”?
But meanwhile that is something different to someone like me whose fancies a self that is asleep and doing seeking because of a belief in a self entity. You can tell me that’s a false belief, I know that is the concept.
How do you go beyond that concept? Go beyond the very concept of what’s being said – the concept that there is no self there? As all concepts are still not it then the concept of there being no self there has to go too, somehow…
If there’s no one there to “get it” then what’s the difference? Between being awake where there’s no entity that “gets it” and believing there’s an entity that hasn’t gotten it? To “get it” seems to mean realizing there’s no self there to “get it”. There’s nothing in it for “me” as it seems the “me” is the reason there’s no way to “get it”. But to “get it” is to let go of the “me”. But then “you” as a “me” entity doesn’t “get it” anyway. It’s not personal, it’s said. blab, blab, blab…
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Eric,
Sense into what is prior to mind, prior to thinking.
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“How do you go beyond that concept?”
Notice that you already are beyond the concept that appears in the Knowing that you are. Are you a concept? No!
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“Sense into what is prior to mind, prior to thinking.”
Right, the mind is just another sense that picks up the thinking. Prior to the eyes seeing objects too. perhaps.
“Notice that you already are beyond the concept that appears in the Knowing that you are. Are you a concept? No!”
This sounds like a concept still. The concept of going into the noticing that I am already beyond the concept. But so it goes with all words – the catch all of no words will ever fit or words are never “it”. Are you one of those that tries to write as if you are awake? Isn’t it a concept to say “You are not a concept”?
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“Isn’t it a concept to say “You are not a concept”?” Yes,everything that is verbalized is a concept. All pointers are conceptual,it’s what they’re pointing to is Not!
Where these words on the screen are registering in or on Awareness is not a concept.
What you Are,cannot be conceptualized.In order to conceptualize,there must be a object and a subject(duality).That which you Are,often referred to as Awareness,Being,Seeing/Knowing or Consciousness is neither Object or Subject(non-dual). You cannot split your self from Self!
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“That which you Are,often referred to as Awareness,Being,Seeing/Knowing or Consciousness is neither Object or Subject(non-dual). ”
I’m serious – who that posts here are just being a parrot of pointers from being involved with this stuff instead of being awake? And if you think you have it all figured out and post – how is that? since there’s nothing to really know from the mind’s view in concepts anyway?
But then we are being told this as a fact – there’s no self entity. OK, but that does no good just to know that in some mundane way like, as an interesting idea while still operating with the belief in a self.
Is there any credo to all this? It seems there is: there is no self entity.
Why isn’t being awake another belief state? A belief that there’s no self entity or no duality?
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Upon “me” waking up this morning confusion, frustration and impatience also woke up and I am wondering . . .
Why do this? Why “stop thinking and find your True Nature”?
It seems to be enough to realize that “me” is just a story, that there is a reality that all “this” appears in and it can’t be known or seen or gotten etc and I AM THAT. I still woke up this morning with a body that has to be washed, fed and excercised as well as dogs, a garden, money to be made etc. to exist in this apparent illusionary world that I find myself in. What is the reason for seeking more than this?
Seeing-Knowing is and all else isn’t end of story?
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There is nobody awake.
There is awakeness only.
Are you not awake right now! How are you are typing these posts? Are they not contingent on the fact that you are awake? What has belief got to do anything with being awake?
Do the investigation. See if you can locate the self or ‘me’?
Should be simple and straight forward, right?
What color is the me? What shape? What size? Where is it located?
What’s looking is what you are looking for? Yes…….No?
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A little more to the story . . .
WHAT IS is Seeing-Knowing . . . Non Duality
WHAT ISN’T is everything appearing . . . Duality
Since there is no duality in non-duality
The story ends . . .
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“There is nobody awake.”
Right because there is no such thing as a self entity, so it’s said.
Still, there are those apparent individuals that are in a state of not seeking and say things like they know there is no self (all coming through a self of some kind as far as I’m concerned). So, for example, Gilbert isn’t awake – but is the one awake through the facade of Gilbert? Just as much as any of us but we (that are asleep) can’t recognize that we are awake?
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If there is no self, as is said, there is no self that can stop thinking and find it’s true nature anyway.
But I wonder the same. What’s in it for me? Nothing, right? Other that obliterating the “me”.
How many are on this kick looking to make their dream of life a better dream instead of waking up from the dream?
“The end of suffering” right? But the end of the self that suffers is probably more like it.
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Eric, there is no one who is asleep. No thing can appear other than in wakefulness/consciousness. In the absence of consciousness (such as in deep sleep) there is no appearance of a “me” to ask questions or feel confused and, therefore, no problem.
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Yes Eric, this is how it is seen when the belief in a separate self is still running the show. The ‘me’ cannot get what the pointers are pointing to. It is not designed for the ‘me’ to get. The ‘me’ is too busy analyzing the pointers and creating concepts.
The ‘looking’ keeps you in the game of ‘not seeing’ BUT the ‘seeing’ of this sets you free ( not ‘I’ see but just seeing). All these concepts and pointers are just food for the mind but they also may help for realization to occur.
It all comes down to….. ‘you’ cannot get this. ‘You’ are in the way of true seeing. This is very frustrating for the ‘me’ to get . The ‘me’ never gets this. This must be seen. Give up the search and there it is, HERE, it never left. Who you ‘think you are is what stands in the way of true seeing. Again, this must be seen but not from a ‘me’.
The answer is really quite simple “JUST SEE and not I SEE” but how many SEE this. Yes I know, there is ‘no other’ but until you get this, there is ‘other’ and a ‘me’ , of course. To lose is to win in this game. Lose yourself to find yourself (true nature).
‘Die before you die’ is a great pointer into seeing what cannot be seem by a ‘me’.
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There is NO answer in the mind.
Tossing concepts around will not bring anything new. Letter Soup has no meaning.
There is NO duality in Non Duality.
The mind is dualistic, restless.
There are NO awakened beings separate from the WHOLE.
It is the WHOLE that is Wakefulness.
The identification of the so-called individual is nothing but the ‘glue effect’ that the contrasting impressions of life ‘create’ (light-darkness, sound-silence, warmth-coldness etc).
What these impressions of dualism register on is singular in nature Non Dual.
How many of you are there? Your absolute uniqueness is not in differentiation.
The multiplicity of concepts and thought can never put ‘humpty together again’.
Who do ‘you’ THINK ‘you’ are? Can a thought encompass your true nature?
There is ONLY ONE knowing.
The moon is reflected in a thousand pools of water.
Many reflection, one moon.
The dark side of the moon is not visible. You imagine all kinds of things about who you are. Yet you are totally invisible.
True identity is pure cognition.
The instruments that cognition ‘appear’ within cognition and are merely instruments.
There is no ‘entity’ in the instrument.
SEEING is not in the ‘eye’. The eye is in the SEEING. The ‘I’ appears as a concepts in the infinite nature of mind or pure cognition.
‘You’ are convinced that you are in a world. Is that true? Or is that glue?
‘You’ refuse to investigate this error because of attachment.
Buddhism is about non attachment yet it appears that ‘every Buddhist’ is attached to Buddhism. All on an eightfold ‘path’ – which was conceived in mind by who knows who.
“If you see the Buddha on the road – Kill him”. Basically Buddha said that there is no self. Okay. Is he right or is he wrong?
Those who discover the truth of it do not claim to be a Buddhist or anything at all.
A Buddhist will tell you it will take a thousand life times. It is a concept (that someone placed in his ‘mind’) and it is believed in – non investigated belief is the bondage of self.
It is all bullshit, utter bullshit. Pure cognition is not swayed by belief or by any thing whatsoever.
It takes NO time to realize your true nature. Your true nature is timeless.
Investigate the ‘entity’ and realize that there is no self.
Pointless sitting meditating and cultivating compassion and love.
ALL qualities belong to the appearance of things.
Pure cognition (knowing) is emptiness.
Pure emptiness has NO investment in any ‘thing’.
The KNOWING is not contained in phenomena.
Phenomena ‘appears’ in the KNOWING.
Got it?
Rats on a treadmill going nowhere, expending all their energy just to give themselves a sense of purpose – on a planet that no one knows where it is going or where it has come from. Negative imagination comes up with a threat, a comet on a collision course with the planet. Doom and Gloom and Grimm Fairy Tales. Wow is ME.
It is all bullshit but you love it. Why? Because it ‘makes’ the ‘me’ feel like it is real. It is glue, the sticky glue of belief.
It is not real – get over it.
So ‘many’ want to lull themselves into the loving arms of god – yet there cannot be a god as such, except in belief. Imaginary god, imaginary arms and imaginary love. They call this awakening. I say “Bollocks”. It is a dream – a belief in separation. It is bullshit from its imaginary beginning to its non-existent end.
Give ‘me’ a break? No need – I never ever was in phenomena from the first instant. Do you want pleasant concepts and do you avoid the rudeness and jolt of waking up to the erroneous bullshit story of ME? Do you turn off the alarm clock and put your head back on the pillow – ‘Just a few more minutes’.
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Gilbert, was there a seeming moment when the thought-gripped ‘me’ evaporated — or whatever you’d choose to call it?
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There ‘was’ (is) the appearance of such a moment. There is an intelligence present and that is the KNOWING. It has never been in the phenomena, in this case, the ‘me’.
Because the mind is so closely aligned with this intelligence, it ‘appears’ through belief that the ‘me’ is aware and can see, hear and do.
Once the pure SEEING cuts through those beliefs, it is impossible to believe in them again.
In the SEEING, the seeing that the me is not real NOW it is known that it never ever was real.
So, no event took place. Your true nature has always been timeless – free of phenomena, completely.
Who will believe this? No one.
That is the irony of it all.
There is no self to believe or not believe.
‘People’ play with concepts and non duality jargon and it is rather pathetic to see but that is how it expresses itself.
Some seeds fall on barren ground and others sprout into healthy fruitful, seed baring ‘trees’. “My cup runneth over” The more you share this, the more it flows.
Because it is empty, it is filled. Because it is full, it is emptied.
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What does be conscious of consciousness mean exactly? Does it mean be conscious of sensations, thoughts, feelings, or be conscious of what is CONSCIOUS of that??????
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It does not mean anything to the mind of habits. The true nature of the mind is infinite.
The Buddhists speak of ‘mindfulness’.
There is no method. The suggestion is to be conscious of consciousness.
The conscious being is not in thought.
The habit is to believe in the reference point (me). The subtle conscious intent to be conscious of consciousness will ‘bring’ the ‘answer’ you are looking for.
I cannot presume to know how it will present itself ‘there’.
All I can say is that it is unmistakable – indescribable – it is the unknown, revealing itself as this ever fresh conscious being. It is One in Essence.
A confidence beyond all imagination eliminates all doubts.
That is what is on offer and there is no one offering it and no one to take it.
It IS your true nature.
How can you not know it?
By belief in erroneous things.
So, be conscious of this consciousness.
You can be grateful ‘later’.
Many are bitter and twisted because they want to hang onto the ‘me’ and ‘get enlightened’ and as Paul expresses it clearly in this program, that activity of ‘selfing’ is the obstacle. Who will give it up?
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I still can’t decipher if you mean be conscious of what is or be conscious of that which is conscious of what is. ( (I) can tell the difference between the me/ and the knowing of the me).
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There is no separation. The mind divides what cannot be truly divided. One KNOWING is clear and obvious. Concepts are multiple and diverse.
Who can tell the difference? Is that merely a story?
The ‘me’ is just an idea. It knows nothing at all. It is a belief that it is ‘I’ that is seeing, hearing etc. It is a description, words, concepts, ideas.
As long as you take the position of being the (snake skin) facade, the reference point in mind, the identification of a separate individual, then the naked seeing is seemingly obscured. The reflections in a mirror have no volition of their own. They can’t do anything at all. Stand in front of a mirror. Now, if that reflection makes a move or speaks to you, you will jump out of your own pants. You KNOW… or better put, there is KNOWING. It is not a personal knowing.
This knowing is NOT post mind translation. All your problems are in the conceptualization.
The ‘main problem’ is that the mind translates events and things into a ‘story’ and that story is believed to be reality along with the central character who these events and experiences are ‘happening to’. But is that character real?
It isn’t real and no wonder it all turns to shit so often. It is all a fiction.
There is only one knowing happening and that is what you ARE.
Stay with that ‘thoughtless reality’, that non conceptual awareness and recognize your own true nature.
It is as simple as that.
If you want a method or practice, then be the witness of thoughts disappearing.
This will reveal what you are.
However, so few will even entertain this ‘suggestion’ because the habit of mind is to dismiss anything that is a threat to the fabricated ‘kingdom of erroneous beliefs’. The ‘king’ is ‘me’ and he is not interested in stepping down.
But as soon as the clear SEEING presents itself, ‘he’ runs for cover because ‘belief’ has NO substance and CANNOT stand up to the investigation.
It is so simple – how strange that so few ‘hear’ the message.
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“‘People’ play with concepts and non duality jargon and it is rather pathetic to see but that is how it expresses itself”
Why is it pathetic and who is seeing it?
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No one is seeing anything. The bait on the hook is an illusion. Bite away if you want.
Squeaky clean expressions may satisfy your mind but the slightest incongruous expression raises the hairs on the back of your neck. Who is disturbed by words? If you want squeaky clean expressions then go to some dead gurus website or read a squeaky clean ‘new age’ book.
If you want peace of mind, you wont find it here. ‘My job’ is to stir you up into a frenzy. You perceive an ego at work, where there is none.
‘I will’ rattle your bones and threaten to knock down the facade. Those who are beyond the facade just laugh. Those hiding in the curtains play mind games with themselves. Don’t bother ‘having a go at me’ here, investigate your own beliefs and join me in a good belly laugh.
It is highly entertaining and NO HARM is done to anyone. FACT.
As the old song goes: “We will Rock you”. Pretentious spiritualized beings are fictional characters. Ashrams are full of them. If you think you are enlightened then you are deluded. There is no separate individual anywhere. All that bullshit about gurus being special beings is hogwash.
Kiss their feet if you want but you will only get an infection and blame someone else.
Come-on, stop being a prude. As soon as you take it ‘personally’ the anguish rises up and disturbs the mind. Are you truly that?
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Gilberto, are you partying with John Wheeler tonight?
-We love ya’, you old goat!
Ed: Could be. Jealous? ‘Get a life’ Vladivostock
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It is funny seeing that all questions are useless because I already know the answers and more so, they all turn out to be irrelevant. And that all what I am doing here (whilst having great fun) is speaking to myself. Between “Gilbert” and what “he” says – apparently with limitless authority – and “I”, entering a bit shaky and awkwardly (because it is just coming out of the advaita closet, haha)… between this “i”, which is completely taken by the urge of asking a question, and the answer it expects from “Gilbert”, is no separation. Neither, with any voice that is expressed here or anywhere. And this whole play that myself – or itself, to prevent rhetorical problems – is playing with itself… it is fcunking amazing!
Note: “a big hello to Ronna, I am liking her interventions”
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This is a serious question, somewhat directed at Paul… Is enlightenment better than heroin? I mean like continuously, or can you go into void like states like the Tolle park bench thing where he would just stay there for hours or days in this unspeakable bliss… Yeah this sounds dumb but it kind of gives one an incentive.
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It is unusual that our guest speakers actually come onto the site an answer questions. Most of them can be contacted via their own websites and many do that. The number of ‘serious’ questions that get posted here is but a few. Since the guests don’t respond all that often, I keep the ball rolling and clobber a few egos along the way. These comment pages are read by hundreds every day. When it gets into a ‘hot’ debate the number jumps much higher. The UGC is exposing a lot of the bullshit that goes on. Other sites are more interested in sucking seekers into new beliefs and there is usually heavy high bias towards one teacher, who is often smothered with doe eyed devotees. There is a revolution going on, in the appearance of things. There are many teachers who would shudder at the thought of coming onto this site to be interviewed and there are many we would not bother to interview. The programs are packed solid with excellent material and I think it is rather unique to have it all in one place – the Cafe with no coffee.
Heroine is a drug. Enlightenment is an addictive conceptual drug which has a great number in its grip, so it seems.
I will leave the rest for Paul to answer if he actually takes time to read this stuff and then respond.
Paul expressed a couple of points worth noting: Immunity to thought and traveling lighter. Such expressions never arise from one who is bound into erroneous beliefs. “They all love me on the first day” and then the having to leave town after three days, only happens because no compromise is taken by the messenger.
The NEED to have everyone ‘love me’ is the guru game. Paul obviously does not play that game. He is highly animated and clear in his expressions. Everyone is different. Funny how it ‘seems’ that so many miss the point over and over and go on making erroneous comments based on points that have already been exposed as useless.
If a studious type were to make a close study of what is being pointed out here over and over, in so many ways, it would revolutionize the ‘education system’ – but notice that the ‘system’ and ‘main stream media’ avoids any contact usually. Pick up a spiritual magazine and you will find a hundred examples of misleading spiritual nonsense and advertisements for endless gadgets to enhance a ‘state of being’. Listen to a spiritual broadcast and you will hear umpteen biased views and erroneous beliefs by the dozen – all presented with apparent authority by someone soaked in beliefs. Belief is not the actual.
As soon as you get down to tin tacks the ‘blinds come down and the doors are locked’ and ‘they’ want to ‘run you out of town’.
I am just tossing in a few red herrings, only because your mind goes around in circles and left to its own devices it will just turn on a dead spot until the cows come home.
No offense intended, mind you.
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The mind is unitary, yet has the ability to be mirror like, thus it can create subject/object but in itself it is unified. We aren’t seeing the unification – mind reflecting itself turns into thought, so say the mind is the computer you are looking into, and thought that is one. But then thought shapes itself as subject to the computer, and words form from the formless. Therein we see that thought is an object like a computer, and so it is merely a psuedo-subject which consciousness identifies with but does not see the emptiness of the mind! So when Gilbert is talking to us, he is actually speaking to consciousness, not the pseudo-subject. The pointers are there for the hope that consciousness recognizes that it is not exclusively the body-mind, but the totality of consciousness. Thus the mind is infinite AND EMPTY – one-.
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And……’progress’ and ‘becoming’ are illusions of mind. Depth of being and shallowness of personality are also illusions of mind.
The true nature of mind is clear and empty. The activity of KNOWING is all that is happening. Pure experiencing.
You were always THAT.
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Thanks Gilbert,
I came home really late from work tonight, tired, dirty & hungry. Ate a cold dinner. Felt like life really had no meaning. (ha) Decide to check out UGC and read this:
“Rats on a treadmill going nowhere, expending all their energy just to give themselves a sense of purpose – on a planet that no one knows where it is going or where it has come from. Negative imagination comes up with a threat, a comet on a collision course with the planet. Doom and Gloom and Grimm Fairy Tales. Wow is ME.
It is all bullshit but you love it. Why? Because it ‘makes’ the ‘me’ feel like it is real. It is glue, the sticky glue of belief.
It is not real – get over it.”
All that depressing woe is me BS is just keeping the sense of “me” alive. I never saw it that way before.
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In the appearance there are APPARENT persons/organisms – just as there are dogs and bookshelves and washing machines.
Dogs bark. Bookshelves support books. Washing machines wash clothes. People eat, sleep and seek.
All of the above is utterly conditioned.
Apparent phenomena such as dogs and washing machines and people, are unfindable as inherent entities – they are labels given to complex conditions.
Just like dogs and washing machines, organisms are not the source, power or instigators of anything.
Like all ‘things’ they APPEAR on the screen of wide awake Reality / Beingness.
That being the case, what needs to change?
Why worry about an ego. An ego is an utterly conditioned process like the central nervous system or gravity.
Even the ‘me’ thought need not be a problem. Me and mine refer to a relativity with the organism. The thought ‘my car’ will need to arise in order for the organism to not take the neighbors car.
The ‘me’ that relates to the organism is not who you are – that ‘me’ belongs to the body / mind.
The body / mind / ‘me thought’ appears in this wide awake Presence.
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From The Ribhu Gita:
29. … all this does not exist in the least at any time: neither you nor I, neither this nor that. There being only Brahman alone, be of the certitude that there is no non-Self.
30. There is nothing by way of example in this world, nor is there anything for which an example is to be given. There being only Brahman alone, be of the certitude that there is no non-Self.
31. There is no mind to think, “I am the Supreme Brahman,” “This universe is only Brahman alone,” “You are also only Brahman.”
32. I am Consciousness, and there is no non-Self. Be of this certitude.
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News: The management of the UGC is looking for the best coffee beans in the world.
We will do a deal with the company who owns the best beans and make the ‘Urban Guru Coffee Bean Company’ products a world wide phenomenal success. The production of programs will leap into top gear and the clear message will spread across the globe with unprecedented coverage. Spread the word. They have to be the best beans.
Can you smell the coffee beans already?
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Here is an extract from my website notes:
You can say “I am aware”.
It is more correct to say “There is awareness here”.
This awareness is ALL INCLUSIVE. There is NO ‘I’ as such. Cognitive researchers have spent thirty years trying to locate the ‘I’. Logic should tell you that if they have had no success – and they have had at their disposal highly sophisticated instruments – then what chance have you got? And yet you probably say ‘I’ a hundred times a day or more.
What do you truly know about this ‘I’?
This is no game. What is on offer is the re-discovery of your own true nature and the end of ALL psychological suffering. It is no piddling matter by any means. And there is a great deal of resistance that usually ’shows up’ with direct pointing.
Cocky intellectuals and smart ass ‘non dual types’ are a dime a dozen. Gurus that will keep the seeker bound into endless conceptual bondage to a future time of deliverance are also very common. In the appearance of things, it is a rare thing, it seems, for anyone to truly cease from seeking. There are many pretenders (teachers) but their words fail to do anything but engage the mind in an endless search.
Those who truly get a taste of what is on offer here, they are not put off the scent.
Those who dabble in spirituality for whatever reason, they are put off by the smallest obstacle because they are not genuine. They get easily offended.
For some this is a battle, a struggle against all odds. For others it is as simple as a spontaneous recognition.
I can tell you one thing: Those who are genuinely speaking about this direct ‘message’ are not popular with the masses. If a guru is popular, you can be sure he is peddling bullshit by the barrow load.
Lifted from ‘Writings’ on http://www.seeing-knowing.com
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It seems that getting a real clear look at this ME would help. But that’s not possible, or is it? I dunno, it seems shifty like a morphing jellyfish net or something.
Also, the UGC Beans should contain coupons redeemable towards UGC merch. Say a hundred pounds nets an officially licensed vest.
Cool site. Thanks.
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Hey management, I like many of your recent posts.
However I (or ‘here’ or however you think Advaita-speak should be and whatever you think Advaita-speak proves) don’t see that it is cut and dry the formulas, popular teacher=poor teaching and unpopular teacher=good teaching.
Go into any bar anywhere and you will hear some half-drunk obnoxious loudmouth spouting off about something. Most will avoid him or her. That doesn’t make him or her a good teacher…just obnoxious.
Conversely, many popular teachers might be helpful to some and say great things, but are popularized for the wrong reason by the sheep.
No need to get into your patronizing “Aha you took the bait” mode whenever contradicted. You did ask us to write here. And if you find my words obnoxious, then, hell, I must be a good teacher.
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I’ve read some Maharaj talks:
The world is because I am.
I am the proof of God. It is universal, not limited to the body.
Can anyone confirm?
My explanation would be that the world and God are meant as concepts in the mind.
Without creating those concepts – when mind stops, world simply stops existing – is it possible that this is what he meant? I mean, it is really huge. Without me there is no world. I am the source. I create it moment by moment just by generating thoughts about it.
Or is it me who generates those thoughts? I guess I am generated the same way also. It’s a funny circle.
But if there is no entity, then who is supposed to pause a thought?
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To Richard. You a good teacher? Teaching what? Teaching goldfish to swim in a restricted area? You are the bait, silly. Don’t be a dork. Just stick to quoting the masters Richard. When you try to say something of your own it falls flat on its face. Go for a walk. Turn off the computer for three days and then see who you are. (I am just pulling your leg. You keep sticking it out of the cage) You are the master of patronizing as I see it. It is the story of your life, isn’t it?
It isn’t personal – we have a contract to entertain, simple as that – there are hundreds and hundreds reading these comments every day and they love this sort of bitchy hair and beard pulling crap. How is the pulse rate today? Who else but ME gets your heart rate up to a reasonable beat?
Try and see the mechanics of your own machine. The dynamics on display here are not so obvious, only because ‘people’ react almost instantly to the surface stuff. Being easily disturbed by the slightest ‘glitch’ only demonstrates a limited view and a limited attention span. Common sense is not so common.
Richard, I suggest that you try and make a new friend this week. That should be possible. Sitting at home with the computer, playing about in cyberspace can be addictive. Get ‘out there’ and test your new understanding. Shrinking Violets need some sunshine and fresh water.
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To Pishta.
It isn’t a matter of WHO is going to pause a thought. Thought can be paused. But the mind says “Who is going to do that?”
The same ‘who’ that you believe is doing everything else.
In the pausing of thought, the crystal clear view is that there is no entity here.
There is no answer in the mind.
The difference between mentation (thinking) and clear and silent awareness is quite obvious. But to the identified ‘me’ the silence and emptiness of mind ‘does not count’.
We miss the obvious because we look for complexity. The brain is like a pattern recognizing machine – it focuses on the patterns and misses the background. The mind is dualistic.
It ‘creates’ subject and object (Duality). Where the seeing is happening, there is no duality.
It is more simple than simpleness. More obvious than obviousness.
One without a second. There is only one. ONE-ly one.
You are that one. No you. No one.
Zero Degrees of Separation.
Not even One – Less than One – Zero – Minus Zero.
No expression can capture it – not because of the poverty of words.
Because ALL expressions are THAT but not as they appear – they appear to be distinct and separate.
Honestly, you may just laugh for a couple of hours if you see the truth of it.
One hears stories of someone running around the streets shouting ’stuff’ hugging every stranger and oozing loving vibrations etc etc.
The ultimate revelation is that everything is perfect just as it is right now.
Everything is the perfect expression of THAT, just as it is. Look out the window……whatever you see, where ever you ‘appear’ to be ‘located’ the expressions that register as impressions in the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching – it is ALL THAT.
Undifferentiated Wholeness.
There is ONLY you – what you ARE.
I could be humorous and say, ‘We are all waiting for you to ‘get it’.
But so many don’t have a sense of humor yet. So serious, so up themselves about this Non Duality thing, whatever it is.
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Is there a difference between the clear and silent presence-awareness which animates a living body, and the intelligence-energy that breaks down its subsequent corpse?
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There is no separation.
Intelligence is ‘doing’ everything.
Only the mind ‘creates’ TWO-ness.
Stop thinking and SEE.
In that clear space-like awareness, seeing is happening. Look around in that space.
Isn’t it empty? Yet there is an intelligence present. It is not personal.
Is there ‘someone’ there in that clear space?
Are there a pile of old concepts banked up in the corner of your mind?
Is the view obscured by anything at all?
Everything ‘comes out of emptiness’ and everything goes back into emptiness.
The ‘phenomena’ of appearance and disappearance is called ‘the world’.
The evidence is quite obvious. The apparent variations in ‘duration’ of ‘things’ appear as overlapping independent appearance(s) – Duality.
Witness the disappearance of thought and the view will open up.
A conviction will come all by itself. A conviction that nothing can destroy.
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As I look around the space with no-thought, it isn’t empty, it is a sea of sensations….
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And where do the sensations appear? Isn’t it obvious that ‘between’ all the sensations there is clear ‘space’ and a ‘seeming’ volume to it all.
Where are you SEEING it all from?
Is there a distinct ‘place’ where all the impressions register?
The ‘emergence’ of phenomena, ALL phenomena, registers clearly and precisely with NO separation.
Can you find a ‘point’ of ‘registering’ that is ‘located’ anywhere in particular?
You don’t need to THINK about it. SEE.
It is pure SEEING, which has an intelligence far beyond imagination.
It is Cosmic in nature.
Stay with it………..this is as close as you can get……..
SEE that you are THAT in-describe-able ‘knowing presence’.
No label will fit.
All labels appear and disappear in THAT.
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So you’re kind of saying that speculating about what takes place at the moment of physical death — animated embodied life form becoming un-animated life form canister — is somewhat immaterial? As whatever takes place will or will not be registering on Awareness at that moment anyway…?
Also, I don’t think Richard was referring to you specifically as the “half-drunk obnoxious loudmouth spouting off about something” if you took it as such. Even if he did, the two of you are old enough to know better.
Ed: If you perceive a problem, then it is your problem. The fact is that there never was a problem. The ‘person’ (with a problem) never actually existed. That is either known completely or not. If not, then it is ignorance – if known then it is simply clear and present knowing – nothing more, nothing less.
No problem, it just looked like a couple old dudes rattling sabers. It’s all good.
“Who has ever come back to tell us of what it is like to be dead?”
These people apparently: http://www.youtube.com/billsvideos123
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Yes but, does it really matter if what is being seen isn’t empty, as long as I am constantly coming back to the seeing/knowing, until there is no one to come back to it? Because I said I am looking and staying aware for whatever arises. And by knowing you just mean a thought arises, and it is known yes?
thanks, mike
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Awareness is NOT in the body. The body appears in awareness.
All speculations are conceptual appearances.
You cannot know death. There is ONLY life.
A ‘dead’ body is alive with microbes. They are having a great time feeding on the material body.
Who has ever come back to tell us of what it is like to be dead. Lazareth was raised from the dead by Jesus. What for? To die once more? Where is he now?
One hears of certain individuals who are a thousand years old, in places like India.
It is all concepts and time is relative. There is ONLY NOW.
Drop all concepts and take an interest in this PRESENCE – it is ALL inclusive.
Watch the mechanics of the mind and understand it. It will serve you much better when it is understood. The believed in ‘entity’ runs a muck and prances about in delirious states of belief. It is madness and we can see the ‘results’ of that madness on the Tele-News every night. It is all self-centered activities. But is there a distinct ‘self’?
The reason of unhappiness is because there is no ‘self’ and the struggle to re-create one is exhausting, to say the least.
It is often said that a profound relaxation comes, once we recognize our true nature. I can confirm that but what good is my confirmation to you? At worst it is just an annoying thing to hear, thus ‘creating’ more dis-ease.
If I were to declare that I am the most enlightened being on this planet, there would be a few who would ‘believe’ me. Assuming that ‘I’ do not ‘lose it’ in a mess of delusional states of mind, ‘I’ could direct the believers to discover that it is not ‘I’ that is enlightened but the WHOLE that is enlightened. With eyes wide OPEN, it may be possible ‘for them’ to SEE and know for themselves that ‘I AM THAT’. The ‘I’ falls away. The Am-ness falls away leaving NON BEING – NO THING. ‘Who’ truly wants to know that?
Fact is that there is no ‘I’ to make any declaration. So all the gurus who talk that shit are deluded – no matter what they or YOU think.
It is all concepts parading as ‘other’ than THAT.
Fact: It is ALL THAT.
There is absolutely no point in pretending to know.
Once this ‘knowing’ is clear of erroneous beliefs, everything is clear and obvious.
It is already so – but ‘thought’ and belief in thought seemingly obscures it.
If I listen to some popular guru speaking, it is extremely obvious where they are coming from. The conceited-ness is written all over them and they talk about love endlessly.
In my case I was never attracted to the devotional way. There was a burning desire to KNOW for myself. Devotion may work in the scheme of things but what I see in all devotees I meet, is a glossy look in the eyes and the expressions just ring like a cracked bell to my ear. And of all the devotees they are, how many are set free? Why does it take SO LONG? The recognition of ones true nature is totally available right NOW and it is instant. It is NOT in time. It may appear to ‘come about’ but the intelligence that unfolds in one instant ‘tells one’ that you have never actually been bound EVER.
Expressing it in dualistic language always fails.
Basically this KNOWING is always here. The concepts that come and go are NOT the knowing. Trying to CLAIM the knowing as a personal acquisition is the problem.
What you seek, you already ARE.
P.S. There is no money to be made in this Non Duality thing unless you lead ‘people’ astray. So I am looking for a new career. Any offers?
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“The ultimate revelation is that everything is perfect just as it is right now.
Everything is the perfect expression of THAT, just as it is.”
““Rats on a treadmill going nowhere, expending all their energy just to give themselves a sense of purpose – on a planet that no one knows where it is going or where it has come from.”
So the human ‘rats’ are perfect, giving themselves an illusional sense of purpose is perfect etc. etc.
Perfect!
Ed: Exactly. So ‘who’ can complain about what?
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Okay, I don’t know if it’s a rhetorical question, but here’s my vote for the UGC bean:
Royal Kona Coffee 100% Kona (100% Awareness too!) Medium Roast
It may arise as little c consciousness, but Royal Kona puts the Big C in Coffee.
Ed: We love you Kimo. I will get some Kona and see for myself.
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Claudia :
Is there a neti-neti for the (your) seeing-knowing?
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Claudia :
Is there a neti-neti for the (your) seeing-knowing?
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Can you address my last question? Also, if it is NON-BEING, denying being means there is being to deny it, so what the hell? Why confuse us even more?
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To Gilbert,
Firstly, I was commenting on your comment about unpopular teachers being better than popular ones. Why not stick to the topic rather than an ad hominem attack? Many teachers both popular and not popular have misguided their students and taken advantage of them financially or sexually. If you can’t back up your original statement with logic, feel free to have at personal attacks. They are hilarious and I love you anyhow.
Secondly, I did say I liked many of your recent posts, and meant it.
Thirdly, As Linus assumes, I wasn’t talking about you in the loudmouth drunk example. Just demonstrating by extreme example that obnoxious or conflictual people don’t necessarily make effective teachers, as you seem to imply.
Fourthly, I would like to get out and exercise, as you suggest, preferably in Australia. But the motels there are too expensive for me. Can I come stay with you for a few weeks? You can be the new friend you recommend I make.
To Everyone, what do you make of this statement from “Self Liberation Through Seeing With Naked Awareness” 26th section?:
“Even though intrinsic awareness which is self-originated primal awareness appears to you, it is but a manifestation of mind.”
I think this goes to the heart of a misconception I sometimes see in this forum and hear from the guest speakers. I look forward to hearing how others interpret this.
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Study is to study what cannot be studied. Undertaking means undertaking what cannot be undertaken. Philosophizing is to philosophize about what cannot be philosophized about. Knowing that knowing is unknowable is true perfection.
~Chuang Tzu
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I had a odd vivid dream while I was meditating a few minutes ago, it was night time and I was in a car, commenting on this forum on a laptop, and Gilbert came towards the car and stared at me through the front windshield with sunglasses on, then it startled me back into awareness. Weird huh?
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If you perceive someone here ‘having a go at you’ then it is being translated by the mind in those terms. When you see that there is nobody there, where you appear to be, what concern is there for anything ‘personal’?
Staring at you is mild. When I tap you on the shoulder and blow in your ear, that is when it is time to skid-attle.
The title of my e-book is “Who do you think you are?”
That may seem like a scary title for any book. In fact the books content isn’t about what the title suggests at all.
There is a courage that is necessary when you ‘get serious’ about this stuff.
That courage appears in BEING yet the source is No Thing – the indestructible Essence that expresses and appears AS everything.
What is interesting here is that the various comments that are made have several facets to them. If there is some ‘personal agenda’ lurking about, it will be stirred up and a comment appears as a response. Great fortune may come from such stirring.
The non existent ‘me’ has no being whatsoever – belief is not the actual.
Being and Non Being are not TWO.
At any moment the possibility is present to SEE what is truly going on.
Without that ‘In-Seeing’, all this is no different to any other website.
Those who know what I am saying don’t need to hear it. Those who hang onto old view points don’t want to hear it. Is that called Catch 22? Probably not but who cares?
It is all good stuff – even the bad bits. (I am not a Catholic by the way)
No one has ever been harmed by words. SEE the truth of that and relax.
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What the hell do you mean by non-being? What exactly falls off? I thought this was all about BEING.
also, ‘knowing’ as you say, is just like for example the hearing of a car?
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No separation.
It is only the mind that ‘seemingly’ separates what is actually Non Dual.
Where does the next thought come from?
Where does it go?
Can you actually examine a thought?
Can you see the ‘me’?
Being is recognized from the ‘place’ of non being.
Everything you perceive is a movement of energy, creating patterns, space and time.
Retrace your ‘steps’ into the SEEING.
I will not be able to convince your mind about non being.
You will never find it because it does not exist and yet it is REALITY.
Unchanging, solid, stable – your true identity.
The resistance to SEEING clearly is called ‘me’.
Nothing falls off. Belief appears to fall off with all the ‘things’ that were believed in.
The ‘Me’ is the core belief.
It does not exist, never did.
The ‘word’ is not the reality.
When you understand this, you can play with words and have fun.
Serious spiritual ‘people’ are caught up in words and definitions, fancy Indian terms or whatever. Satsang bullshit and such like.
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Ok well, don’t say that things fall off then if you don’t mean it. You made it sound like existence falls off ‘amness’ and then non-being… When you really mean the false thought belief falls away, which never existed in the first place. Anywho, do you care to say what knowing is, you use the word all the time but never actually say what knowing is.
Edit: is it safe or recommended to ignore thought? (speaking as consciousness so don’t say who is the ‘I’ that would ignore thought blah blah.)
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Ok well, don’t say that things fall off then if you don’t mean it. You made it sound like existence falls off ‘amness’ and then non-being… When you really mean the false thought belief falls away, which never existed in the first place. Anywho, do you care to say what knowing is, you use the word all the time but never actually say what knowing is.
ed.. Is it safe or recommended to ignore thought’s? (as when they arise in awareness )
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I’d say it is recommended to discard and ignore everything that is not you (neti, neti), not just a thought.
You are not perceivable, so throw all perceivables away. In the end there is only “I am”. “I am this” is always false.
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Suki,
Are you sure that quote is by Chuang Tzu? Maybe it was thought up by the butterfly while dreaming he was Chuang Tzu.
Good quote.
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what else isn’t me, you think one should ignore sense perception, and the world? also non-dual means no separation right, and niz said we are everything and nothing…
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Knowing is cognition. The activity of knowing is cognition. It is the primary activity.
You cannot know it as an objective ‘thing’. It is space-less – time-less.
It is no thing to the mind. These words register in the knowing – the mind translates them instantly but the translation is not the pure knowing.
If you came into existence in this instant, there would be no words to label things with.
These squiggles on the screen would not be recognized to ‘carry’ any meaning beyond their appearance.
You cannot slip anything in between the cognition and what is cognized.
There is no separation.
What I described about being falling away is nonsense until it is ‘experienced’.
No one experiences anything in fact.
But who is going to believe that?
‘People’ believe. I am not a ‘person’.
There are many aspects of ‘this’ that I cannot speak about and if I tried, ‘they’ would put me away in a locked room somewhere.
Don’t get upset about my words. In the appearance of things, I have infuriated some brilliant scientists with just a few words. Not with any special language or knowledge – just with ordinary language – words that exposed the assumptions that they cling to.
It made me laugh, because I am not highly educated at all. In fact my science teacher in high school gave up on me in the first year. Ha.
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I would like to know about some of the aspects, but not all, some mystery would be nice, though mystery is inevitable anyway since words do not suffice.
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To José Muñoz: hahaha, neti-neti, Monette, even what you call knowing-seeing… no words are needed
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Hey Gilbert, I was with you up until the point you wrote, “You cannot slip anything in between the cognition and what is cognized.”
What does that mean? I know it’s a metaphor you’ve used before, but I just don’t get it and I kinda want to.
Please, pardon personal pronouns. PPPP
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Here are some “Questions from the spiritual path” posted by Randall Friend in his blog You Are Dreaming:
How can I find the Self? (He owes me money.)
What color is Enlightenment? I hear it’s a light shade of periwinkle.
Does Enlightenment improve your sex life? Will Enlightenment help with male pattern balding? Do Guru’s drive Ferrari’s? Come on – my current pick up lines aren’t working!
Have you eaten your rice porridge yet? Have you washed your bowl, you freakin’ slob?
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around?
What’s the deal with the Zen kid riding the damn Ox all the time? Doesn’t he have homework to do or something?
Does being infinite make you look fat?
Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, pay your damn utility bill.
“While doing an advanced yoga posture, I experience a deep darkness that seems to go on forever. Is this enlightenment?” – You’re doing it wrong, that’s your colon.”
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what is spoken of as beans are no beans, thus are they called beans
what is spoken of as beens are no beens thus are they called has-beens
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Richard,
In the last line of the same section:”There exist no appearances whatsoever that can be understood as not coming from mind.”
The way I understand it is that the author is making the point that it is still an appearance (it is but a manifestation) albeit a subtle one.It appears to ‘YOU’.The ‘YOU’ never appears or manifests, for the simple fact *YOU are always PRESENT.
*Universal Impersonal Presence/Awareness
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It seems that all language is metaphor. Especially when it comes to this stuff.
My questions, other than not being all that bright, sorta feel like someone asking, “So just tell me, what is the size and color of the scent of cigar smoke?”
Or like words are trying to geometrically express the space-time continuum.
Not that I get it, but there’s something going on. Clearly Gilbert’s not writing himself blue in the face for the money and fame…
Thank you for your patience.
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“There is absolutely no point in pretending to know.”
This is something I’ve wondered – is there a way to train the ego or habitual self to fall away or fall into alignment with knowing the truth of no self?
I imagine being asleep is a hypnotic trance of belief in a self entity.
So is there a way to un-hypnotize yourself?
Or to “align” your ego to what the truth is? Like act a certain way that would be how “awake” people act, and as such kind of invite the awakening to come over you?
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Not that this site needs another b-hole ‘providing answers.’ But I thought what Gilbert was talking about when he mentions “there’s no point in pretending to know this stuff,” is that there’s folks here on the site, and all about town, carrying on using non-dual Advaita jargon giving all manner of so-called sharing and instruction.
It seems best to speak as genuinely and authentically as one can from the non-dual perspective of ignorance, I suppose, than to carry on from that same non-dual perspective of ignorance with a further deluded sense of non-dual realization, as that only irritates those still in the non-dual perspective of ignorance with an overwhelming sense of “STFU.”
Given that, it seems your last line there of trying to shuffle the ego is likely doomed to fail. But I’m on your team in trying to get this shit figured out and resolved.
Thanks for your help, don Gilbertoji (w/affection not sarcasm).
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Eric:
No, there is no way for the ego to fall into alignment with the truth of who you are.
The ego & person are just ideas; concepts that you have about yourself.
You are non-conceptual. You are only what the word Awareness points to.
Another question which is on the SAME MAGNITUDE as the question of whether the ego will ever get it or not is–
Hey, can somebody please convince the man-in-the-moon that he needs a college degree to get a good job? There is no man-in-the-moon except as a thought so the idea of whether he’ll ever get with the program and educate himself is senseless. The man-in-the-moon never understood anything and neither did the ego.
They are both objects in understanding. They appear in the knowing perfectly and hence are already “in-line with the truth” but that’s not what you’re asking.
There’s no problem with the Eric character or the Man-in-the-Moon character. Neither will ever get or know anything, but they appear effortlessly as concepts in what you already are. Where’s the problem?
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So long UGC and thanks for all the fish. Gil and Areti – keep up the good work.
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“There is absolutely no point in pretending to know.”
Yeah, I’m pretty sure Gilbert was talking about people being ignorant but trying to write as if they are awake. I wish people wouldn’t do that. I should have made two posts as I just like the readers and writers to realize there are too many ignorants pretending, as far as I am concerned too.
however, to launch off that in a totally different context is the idea that maybe taming the ego is something that allows the waking to occur. that if one is carrying on with ego full blast they are “more ignorant” and less apt to have grace wake through them.
but also, I feel the tightness of my questions. of wanting to get it right. of wanting to find a way that I can do.
I have never gotten anywhere with the pointer “you are already that”. I think that is a cop out pointer. I am not already that! Maybe I am and don’t realize it – but there is no difference. I can just about intellectually conclude I am already that – but it does no good while I don’t know it as true to the core, while being ignorant.
It’s like saying to a smart person that is lazy – you are smart. A lazy smart person is the same as a not so mart person.
If we are already that but don’t realize it – that is is the same as not being that.
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One Essence expressing and appearing AS everything.
There is no entity here or anywhere.
The spontaneous expression spills out without ‘internal considering’ or a ‘labor of thought’ and without disturbed feelings.
Belief is not the actual.
The ‘me’ is belief – it is not the essential being-ness.
The conflict of reference points in the mind is due to non investigated erroneous belief.
The mind tries to connect up things to bring about a change.
SEE that there is nothing separate and there is no need to connect anything.
Where are you seeing from?
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One Essence expressing and appearing AS everything.
appearing as ignorant separate false entities that believe they aren’t that?
There is no entity here or anywhere.
is ONE ESSENCE not an entity?
The spontaneous expression spills out without ‘internal considering’ or a ‘labor of thought’ and without disturbed feelings.
that sounds peaceful – but not my experience while a sleeper.
Belief is not the actual.
yeah I’ve heard that. TRUTH is everything other than beliefs.
The ‘me’ is belief – it is not the essential being-ness.
how the heck did I end up believing something so deeply and so not true? please break this trance…
The conflict of reference points in the mind is due to non investigated erroneous belief.
ok – so is seeking ok when done right? as in doing investigating to ferret out the erroneous?
The mind tries to connect up things to bring about a change.
that grand pattern matching machine, ha? that has no personal power while it can think it has all the power. like the law of attraction, you create your universe power that is tossed around in the new age or left over new age thinking.
SEE that there is nothing separate and there is no need to connect anything.
lol (actually laughing as opposed to just writing lol) – nothing is separate, and not out of place – no need to fix anything or align anything, yeah?
Where are you seeing from?
I am seeing from somewhere that I can not see.
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There goes the pessimistic mind again Eric, why even comment on each thing said when the main point is not to believe or analyze with the mind what is being said? It is like:
Guru says: You already are that, the mind will try to reject.
Seeker: But how, my mind says this is not true! oops.
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I could now ask you the same!
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No one has or is more than anyone else. In fact there is no one nor is there other, but that remains to be seen by egojis.
To think, “He has it” or “She doesn’t have it” is sickness of the mind, a perpetuation of the conditional mind doing what it does …. judgementally dividing into dualistic concepts.
Papaji said, If you want to know if someone is enlightened, first you must become enlightened, then you can recognize such a person.
What he didn’t say is there is no person to become enlightened …. the enlightenment concept is just a myth.
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Yawn.
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pishta says: “You are not perceivable, so throw all perceivables away. In the end there is only “I am”. “I am this” is always false.”
“I am” is also illusory and is the primary illusion from which stem the other illusions (i.e. “I am this”).
“I am” is also called Self, Brahman, Sat-Chit-Ananda, the turya state. It has attributes (Being-Consciousness-Bliss) and as such has opposites. It is dependent upon a body/mind (manifestation) and goes when the body goes.
That brings us to the unmanifest, the Parabrahman, the turyatita. Following your model it can be referred to as the “I”. It is without attributes or opposites.
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Silent, wordless Knowing.
A ‘ghostly’ Knowing (if u like)
Who knows this?
It is ghostly, transparent….. an invisible acknowledgement.
Who can put their finger on it?
The problem, more often than not, is that the individual wants their cake and they want to EAT (experience) it too. They want a salad to go with their main meal. They want a story to go with the immediacy.
“Can I have a story to go with that please?”
The eating of the cake is THAT. No division.
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The ‘me’ does have a relative reality.
A couple of points though.
1. This ‘me’ phenomenon is totally unstable and unfindable. Pause for a moment and it can’t be pinned down. Yet, in its place is inescapable aliveness.
2. This ‘me’ phenomenon is not the final reality. In order for the ‘me’ and anything else to appear, there needs to be Beingness, Reality itself.
This Reality is primary, all else is downstream of it (so to speak.)
Yet……
Who investigates?
Reality itself VIA the appearance. In other words, YOU.
The self can be seen to be fleeting, unstable and without inherent qualities – and its source, Reality is revealed.
In that revelation it is clear that the little self is not the ‘finder’ – the self is part of Oneness’s display. (This paradox is known as the gateless gate.)
This is how Oneness plays its game of revelation.
Hide and seek ONLY has meaning in the appearance.
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The mind does what it does.
If I am already that, then so be it.
Apparently being “already that” is all involved in being ignorant.
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So enlightenment is to realize there is no such thing as enlightenment for the individual?
Ed: There is NO individual enlightenment – Stop trying to BECOME something that you are NOT. Full Stop.
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There is no relative reality. There is no final reality. Those concepts are just concepts that the mind automatically uses as labels.
Be honest: You don’t KNOW what you are talking about. It is ‘Piffle’ – intellectualizing. Reality can never be known. It is the KNOWING.
Reality is THAT which does NOT change – it has no levels and no degrees, no thing that you can select and put aside and call it reality.
You can never become reality. What you ARE is reality.
What appears is phenomena – energy – changing patterns of the Singular immediate expression of One Essence.
‘You’ will never conceive reality.
‘You’ will NEVER find non duality.
If what does not changed is approached through the mind, it will recede and be covered by conceptualization (change).
Where the mind is NOT there is no ‘me’, no ‘personal’ consciousness.
The ‘self’ cannot be seen, fleetingly ot otherwise.
Such concepts are just mind tricks that ‘seekers’ appear to play, pretending to be ‘spiritual beings’.
Try to get behind a thought.
As I have suggested many times now: Witness the disappearance of thought.
That is a ‘pointer’ potently rich with potential insight.
But the mind that is busy with seeking will NEVER open to the clear view of IN SEEING.
Everything is contained in the SEEING and IS the SEEING.
There is no separation.
If you are genuine and use the ‘pointer’ it WILL reveal ‘something’ unexpected.
Oddly enough it is no Big Deal. Those who make it into a Big Deal missed it altogether.
Where you are seeing from IS Non Duality.
The concept ‘seer’ cannot SEE.
No concept can SEE. Yet……SEEING is happening.
In recognizing the essential nature of this ‘pointer’ alone, it is enough.
A voice in the wilderness?…….where no one is there to hear it? – Yet HEARING is happening.
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Thanks for the comments Gilbert. I knew that there would be difficulties with this.
Yes, what ‘you’ are IS Reality.
AND…… Reality APPEARS as stuff.
That ‘stuff’ is where seeking AND ‘finding’ appears.
THAT which is ‘found’ to be never lost is the radiant Beingness/Aliveness which is the ‘ground’ / power / light of appearances.
YET… the ‘finding’ itself is also not other than a play in radiant Awakeness.
EVERYTHING that appears in YOU is an APPEARANCE.
That includes EVERYTHING……
Sleeping… seeking… contemplating… enquiry… insight…. awakenings….
REALITY is like the mirror, appearances are like reflections…. the mirror itself is not a reflection…. but ALL else is.
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I do take note of the disappearance of thought.
That is less blocked than “you are already that”.
Yes I don’t know and I hope I am not pretending to know.
Yeah there is that expectation that it is a Big Deal. That I will wake up and jump up and down and scream “hallelujah, I see the light” and speak in tongues and feel “energy” and talk to ascendant masters like Jesus or my higher self or the veil lifts and things will glow and I will wield power to create… I know all that is BS now a days but like other beliefs it’s probably still lurking in the mind that wants peak experiences or more entertainment out of it. blah blah blah…
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So many say “Everything is ONE”.
NO everything is not ONE. Everything is multiplicity.
ONE is everything – or appears as everything.
If Papaji was so CLEAR how come all his subsequent ‘teachers’ are all ego maniacs?
“Oh Deary me” – Eric – Delusional concepts unfortunately. While the mind is full of all those concepts and anticipations what I am pointing at will NEVER reveal itself at all. The busy mind is not where the KNOWING is. The busy mind is ‘appearances’ only. Step back prior to thought.
Thanks to ‘gurus’ so many are full of crappy concepts and erroneous beliefs – and because of that they can’t get to what they already ARE.
It does not matter. Don’t beat yourself up. Relax.
Next please……
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This satsang mishmash mix of advaita and half understood Buddhism leads to these rather silly proclamations that there is strictly no one who could enquire etc…
The One who enquires is YOU (Reality/Self/Consciousness). BUT only via the appearance – i.e. the erroneous concept of a separate substantial entity (‘me’).
Reality has no need to find itself! How absurd.
Finding oneself is strictly part of the play of the APPEARANCE!
————————
Meanwhile, THAT which is in no need of being found…
Radiates as this inescapable IS-ness / Beingness…
Expressing as the appearance – however it appears.
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We can’t fall from the GROUND.
We can’t jump off the GROUND.
THIS, the GROUND, is ALL there is.
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One source said Papaji was overheard saying, “I tell them they are enlightened so they will go away and leave me alone”.
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mirror+reflection=2.
There ain’t no mirror. There is only IS.
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Reflection on or within mirror=1without a 2nd=Undifferentiated Indivisible Wholeness.
*Mirror is a simple metaphor symbolic of your intrinsic true nature.Reflections only appear and have no separate existence from the mirror,they are inseparable and constantly changing.The mirror is unchanging.
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If you think Papaji isn`t genuine, check out `Ryuho Okawa`, who claims supreme enlightenment and says he is higher than the Buddha, christ, etc… I don`t doubt that Papaji and Mooji know what they are, not sure what Gilbert has against them or the culture. The pointing`s are no different.
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Gilbert
3 days of intense investigation and RECOGNITION is happening
Thanks for the “kick in my prudish ass”
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Have you considered becoming a life coach?
So how’d the Wheeler/West/Adamson/Schultz Advaita celebrity grudge match turn out? Will there be upcoming podcasts?
Hey, for poops & giggles did you share the UGC on-goings with the gang? The personalities and melodrama in the appearance…
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it IS
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Look, it is all appearance.
I have met hundreds who have been with Papaji and his ‘replacements’. Not one of them has ceased seeking and they all talk ‘shit’ and have a deluded impression that they are on the ‘path’. They all talk of Ramana or Papaji or of one of his ‘replacements’ as if he or she were a god etc.
As long as a glorified image of ‘another’ is stuck in your consciousness it is nothing but NON RECOGNITION of your own true nature.
When you really see through the ‘appearance’ the ‘teacher’ you may have had is seen to be contained in what you are and a sense of equanimity prevails.
Being unconscious of the ego game is slavery. Playing with the ego game consciously is fun and ‘pissing off’ seekers stuck on ‘bowing’ to a guru is downright hilarious. They ALWAYS bite. As soon as you throw the line in the water, even if there is no bait or hook, they bite like crazy.
It is all appearance. Does that have to be stated every second sentence?
Dumb ass seekers are a bore until they get stirred up a little. When the mechanical nature of self-centered activities is shaken up a little, the ‘space’ between the cogs of the wheel ‘start’ to reveal ‘something’.
All we have is concepts to play with. It is a word game of sorts. The WORD has bound the mind and the word can loosen the bondage but NOT if the resistance is tenacious.
Come on, free up a little. SEE what is truly going on.
IS there anything actually happening – and if there is, WHO is it happening TO?
Sheeshkabab.
How thick is a brick?
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I understand about the mirror/reflection metaphor and the Ocean/wave metafive.
What I’m saying is take away those concepts. Remove the mirror. Nothing changes, nothing happens, from Gaudapada’s ajatavada viewpoint, which Ramana Maharshi called the highest teaching.
All is at it is. Nothing has happened, is happening, or will ever happen in the nothingness of timelessness. All can be considered to be unchanging energy or space or stuff or essence. Illusion is the imposing of changing objects upon the Oneness. This is the dream. As Gilbert might say every other sentence, It is all appearance.
I didn’t do a great job in explaning but those interested can Google Ajatavada. Those not interested can….yaawwnn.
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Looks like i’m causing some stirring up to
….. And as for Papaji and Mooji, I don’t care for them at all, I never considered them my guru or anything so i’m not offended. I’m simply saying they aren’t faking enlightenment, I don’t think anyone has ever really faked it especially to that extent, maybe a fake blog or two. The only fakes are the worldly people trying to sell Tarot cards and crap.
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IS-ness is the non-conceptual GROUND.
Is there something (or someone) separate from the GROUND?
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“Dumb ass seekers are a bore until they get stirred up a little.”
Ha ha! Gilbert, The comic relief here is great!
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Is this satsang? It feels like it. Non-sense and sense both happen. Sense seems more enjoyable.
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“First, shift the focus of attention to the object. Now, without shifting attention away from the object, simply notice that the rest of awareness is still present even though it is being ignored and is not an object in awareness. Now relax and rest in this awareness without trying to find it or know it. Open yourself to it, and allow it to just be. Do not grasp at an inner Meaning, but open up to it as you would to the beloved and allow it to flow through you. Now simply behold the object as a mere appearance in consciousness. Then continue to rest in this recognition of the objectless complement of whatever object arises.”
-Wolff
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Some good stuff getting stirred up and shared here.
When you notice a laugh pops up where a disturbance once would have kicked into gear, then things are dissolving nicely.
What makes sense to the intellect is not necessarily true.
The things that you’re liable to read in the Bible are not necessarily so (as the song goes).
Belief is not the actual.
Part two of Peter Brown looks at some of these points being discussed here rather well. Have a listen…..
It is published now. I had another listen this part two program of Paul’s – some really good stuff in there if you actually ‘hear’ it.
These programs are excellent in my opinion. Yes, I am allowed to have an opinion, thank you.
OK. Stay tuned to the UGC. The best damn thing since Sliced Bread – Warm regards – Gilbert.
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Eat the meat and spit out the bones is what I say . I have watched those like Mooji and many other so called teachers I have noticed that many have pictures of their teachers besides them and they bow and pay their respects before they teach. Are they set up as idols ? Some teachers dress up and make an attempt to look like a guru or look like Jesus etc. And then they speak of the self disappearing while spending a lot of time dressing up who and what they are not. Where is the focus ?
There is a looking past that into what is being said is the focus or should be. The message and not the messenger. What seekers have done is deconstruct their self and reconstruct the guru and worship that. Doing away with one addiction and picking up another. And to talk to any of these so called enlightened teachers I have found they charge an arm and a leg. So it is all arising and amusing to watch at times. But what is attractive here is the free access and no reaching into my pocket for money as if enlightenment has a heavy price tag for the personal contact by phone.
Anyway what a great site here.
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