Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
61. Rodney Stevens – Radiance of Being – part two
Posted on 11.14.09 1:31PM under Rodney Stevens
Areti continues this interview with Rodney Stevens.
Rodney says: Non-duality isn’t something that’s difficult, “far-off”, or metaphysical (though its sublimeness is without parallel). It is, for the most part, a teaching that points to the fact that self-realization is simply a matter of seeing or understanding that which is immediately before you. There is absolutely no need examine egoic constructs, debate notions of a perceiver and the perceived, or sit cross-legged on a floor or cave until you faint from exhaustion or exposure. Indeed, before you take a single step towards any of those endeavors, you are awareness itself. You are THAT. See the utter and magnificent reality of this as you read these very words. Allow yourself to be paused–Full Stop!–by the beauty and enormity of that fact. Then you will see yourself as Yourself, radiant spaciousness without beginning or end.
Rodney’s site is HERE.
Music includes: Iron and Wine, Neil Young, Andreas Vollenweider (Flute), Bob Dylan, The Youngbloods, Tomitito (guitar), and Cat Stevens.
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Posted by gilbert on 11.14.09 9:01 pm
Enjoy this new program, if you have not already done so.
Warm regards – Gilbert.
Posted by ricnz1 on 11.14.09 9:25 pm
I am done. I would like to express my deepest gratitude to Gilbert, Bob, John, Areti & everyone involved with this magnificent website. Also a special note to Gilbert’s pointer on his website;
Witness the disappearance of thought.
and……observe the absence of the ‘witness’.
There is no where to go from there. Living in New Zealand I could not find anyone with a legitimate understanding of this, this website is all you need. It is such a concentrated resource of unconfused clear pointing. What a gift. It is such a laugh when you see that you haven’t gone anywhere, where could you be other than here and now? there’s no escape from this, ha-ha. You already are the understanding you seek. Its really just the simple knowing itself. There is no one knowing, just Knowing.
My main motivation to write this comment was to share what I believe was the main factor for this body/mind to see clearly, in the hope it may help so called “others” end the search (obviously it is not the body/mind that sees; awareness sees everything including an apparent body/mind; words are always going to contradict).
Everyone knows there is awareness present, there is nothing you can do to not know this. This is an inescapable fact – at all times. So you already know it!! It is the only doubtless thing you know!! So no searching is needed. I was quite clear on this, but there were still doubts and searching happening for me. I remember reading Nisargadatta say “If doubt sets in, don’t fight it. Cling to what is doubtless and leave the doubtful alone” Nis’ would not lie to me, I knew this. So every time a doubt or fear or worry arose of any kind; I would use it as a helpful pointer to see that the doubt is indeed being witnessed by something. Something prior to any doubt. Something prior to everything.
Myself (awareness).
Clarity was seen to be already present. Luckily No concepts like awakening or future or enlightenment are required for this. I hope someone finds this helpful. Love, Ric
Posted by Scarfox on 11.15.09 11:54 am
The mind here has no more questions left except about the seeing and the seen.
Posted by fernando on 11.15.09 12:23 pm
There is absolutely only ONE.
Seeking or not seeking, you are this ONE.
You are done !!
Posted by Scarfox on 11.15.09 4:55 pm
It is done here as well, for better lack of words. The me was a joker and a thief. Allllll along the watchtower…
Posted by Jacob on 11.16.09 1:04 am
Witness the disapearence of thought and observe the absent of the witness. thought over here is making this pointer complicated. so basicly is it when thought disapears , then seeing the space of the full stop of thought. yeah doubt arises for the jacob, everyone seems to be kissing goodbye to the me on the comment pages apart from this dam me here. day after day goes by listening reading noticing presence as much as posible, no glimmers of anything , and yet this is suppose to be so simple so easy so right here. and this is such a story im spinning off here , such a pain in the ass 33 years of a pain in the ass now thats a sore ass, great to here it ric enjoy love jacob
Posted by claudia on 11.16.09 3:10 am
I can relate to that, Jacob. When utter frustration appears – you ARE THAT. No one is kissing the me goodbye. The dream/story character Jacob wants to wake up, but he can’t but wake up in another dream/story – for he is part of the dream/story. That Jacob, who wants THIS happen so badly, is but a thought. Right now, right here, the sounds of the traffic, the birds singing, the wind in the leaves, the fingers typing, the breathing, the heart beating, the hum of the computer, the slam of a door, the barking of a dog, the light chill felt on the naked feet, the reflections on the window, the thought “I should wipe the floor”, the pressure of the butt against the chair, a telephone ringing, the warmth of the cat’s body on my lap… THIS IS IT. Absolutely ordinary , life as it is. But the mind jumps in and says: “No, this can’t be it. It’s gotta be something extraordinary. A big mindblowing bang that will reveal a glorious state, when all ego pains in the ass and suffering will fall away, etc…” It’s just another thought, arising now about a supposed event that supposedly will happen sometime in the future… See it for what it is and be done with it… When the energy put in focussing on thought is released, the miracle of life is revealed in it’s utter simplicity and aliveness…
Posted by fernando on 11.16.09 6:18 am
ONE-ness is Real.
TWO-ness is Conceptual.
Seer – seen, thinker – thought, watcher – watched, even Reality – Conceptualization are different forms of TWO-ness.
So, TWO-ness appears in (or on) ONE-ness.
Finally, TWO-ness is not separate from ONE-ness.
Posted by ricnz1 on 11.16.09 6:25 am
Jacob, Don’t take the pointer to analytically. It is just to simply see that there is something aware and present when thought disappears, and that there is not a specific reference point (like a separate me) to be found. Just leave it at that. This is the simplicity everyone is talking about. The mind comes in afterwards and complicates things by saying “I don’t get it” or “there’s still a me here” or whatever. And then we take what the mind says to be true. Instead try and notice that while the mind is spinning, there is still something simply present cognizing the thoughts. Stay with that!! Let the mind say whatever it wants; its going to anyway. My mind is still trying to say things like “I have lost it” etc, these thoughts are more amusing than anything; how can I lose myself? what is the space in which the thought “I lost it” arising. These thoughts have a certain momentum from getting so much belief in the past, but they really aren’t a problem. Every thought actually reveals myself as presence. And it will for you too!!
The reason it can be such a struggle is because we assume that we are an actual separate entity who needs to get this, but the reality is that we are already this. So the search is a dead end. Instead assume that you are already the awareness and question everything that tries to say otherwise. Stay with that simple knowing. Know that anything that can be observed in anyway can’t be you. The self centered thoughts need you to react to them and believe them to survive. Just keep seeing them for what they are. They are as impersonal as the wind blowing or a bird tweeting. See how all these things are cognized equally in the same space that you are. See that this is the case right now for you. Love Ric
Posted by Cheryl on 11.16.09 7:40 am
Nisargadatta said something similar to Rodney in the way of a reminder…
“I am neither the mind nor its ideas”. Then I say just be in presence awareness. Just be.
I am starting a Nicotine Anonymous group. The purpose is to be of service for the one. The mind wants to say ‘oh what if I fail?’. But I remember there will be no ‘me’ running the show. It will manifest as it will…where did the ‘idea’ arise in the first place? Mind tries to stop us in our tracks. It prevents the manifestation of the one (aka service) because we are concerned with ‘self’. Step one is a power greater than self…not two. There is no self in thought. Get the self out of the way…be selfless.:)
Posted by Jacob on 11.16.09 8:05 am
THANKYOU x
Posted by Cheryl on 11.16.09 8:21 am
Woops, wrong “There is no self in thought”. Actually that’s the only place that self appears. May I add, how is it that those who are self-less appear happy and content? It’s not a spiritual pursuit, it’s just that there is nothing to get and no one who wants to get it from anyone. What remains can be called ‘pure intelligence’. It knows and wants for nothing. What’s left is an endless supply of ‘love’ (for lack of a better word). Most people long for that experience…no self no problems.
Posted by billtys on 11.16.09 3:16 pm
Nothing changes from what is going on right now. There is only ordinary awareness…just like it is now.
That means that whatever is happening now… is it. There might be bigger and better experiences but they are transient and simply appear in what you are. Everything appears in what you are…
That unchanging, endless, undeniable awareness is there now.
Posted by gilbert on 11.16.09 4:05 pm
There will always be those who give a thumbs down.
The language we all use in expressing ‘this stuff’ can be exceedingly annoying for those who are struggling to ‘understand’. The ease of expression is often not so helpful for those ones. The ‘art’ is to ‘point’ in such a way that ‘encourages’ a clean investigation without ‘pissing off’ the ‘seeker’.
Basically the core of it all is ‘intent’.
What is your intention right now?
This manifestation is not meaningless.
This No Thing is not an empty void.
As erroneous beliefs are discarded the essence of meaning and intention are found to be ONE.
There is a page written on this same ‘point’ on my website (seeing-knowing dot com) at the moment.
it is uncompromising ‘pointing’. Not everyone’s cup of tea.
Posted by billtys on 11.16.09 4:29 pm
In this podcast and in meetings with Bob the question of “Who is it that does the investigation” often arises.
The answer of course is no one does the investigation because the imagined entity cannot do anyhting…it is the natural functioning. Just like the spinning planets and the ebbing tide..everything is on automatic. The digestion, the assimilation, the metabolism of the body…all on automatic.
So who does the investigation? The investigation just simply happens…like oil floating to the surface of a pool.
It certainly appears that the imagined entity does the investigation but like everything else…it is just the natural fuctioning…and the imagined entity quickly lays claim to the activity…which is also simply the natural fuctioning.
There is no doer…and just like a ripe peach falling from the branch…the investigation arises.
Posted by Randall Friend on 11.16.09 9:56 pm
Everything you know as reality comes by virtue of mental translation – applying independent existence to the appearances. This is otherwise known as “imagination”.
Take a look at anything – any appearance – the instant a thought comes about it, it’s duality. That’s all the mind can do. Taking the first appearance, sensation, perception, experience, to be some “thing”, means taking it to be some “independent thing”.
There is nothing with independent existence – appearance of phenomena does not mean separation.
This applies also to what you take yourself to be.
It is said that you intimately know your Self already – “I AM”. Yet in this mental process, that “I AM”-ness is taken to be another “thing” among things, an isolated and separate existence. This is the nature of limitation, the root of suffering.
That is why it is said that you are “no thing” – no INDEPENDENTLY-EXISTING thing – nothing which stands apart, stands alone, from the world.
We might also say you are “everything” – but to say that also calls in the mental power of imagination. If you are everything, that presupposes the separate existence of everything, and then says you are all these “things”. Still false.
So we cannot get to it in mind, because mind is the very root of duality, mind is the apparent mechanism which is automatically applying this paradigm of “thingness”. The instant a thought comes – notice it is automatically doing this, applying “thingness”.
We must question the very nature of “thingness”, which is duality itself. We must notice that this is what is going on, automatically and unnoticed. And because it’s unnoticed and “normal”, these pointers are confusing – they seem to necessitate forcibly pulling together the “things” in the world into some conceptual mold of Oneness. This is still missing the point.
The core point is that this process, this paradigm of “thingness” is already false. No phenomena has independent existence. Existence isn’t “owned” or held separately by “things”. Existence is existence, right here and now.
The “seer” and the “seen” are only there in this process of duality. The SEEING is the nondual IS-ness of this very moment, unbroken, unaffected, unchanged.
Seeing IS Being. And that, right here and now, is YOU.
Posted by fernando on 11.17.09 3:20 am
Thums Up or Thumbs Down…
THIS is it.
Posted by Cheryl on 11.17.09 6:06 am
Trying to conceptualize ‘oneness’ doesn’t work, I get it. But I ask you Randall, isn’t ‘remembering’ lack of separation beneficial,or is that still a thingness? All our suffering and the suffering that is created in the world seems to come because we believe without question that ‘we’ exist, that ‘they’ exist, that we are here and they are there. In Reality, no us no them no here no there, just presence awareness – oneness.
Posted by fernando on 11.17.09 7:28 am
Randall points perfectly:
Thinking is THING-ing, is de-fining, is separating ‘this’ from ‘that’, ‘here’ from ‘there’, ‘seeking’ from ‘sought’, ‘seer’ from ‘seen’, ‘thinker’ from ‘thought’, ‘us’ from ‘them’.
“Existence is existence, right here and now” (Randall Friend)
Existence is… IS-ing.
Posted by mark on 11.17.09 9:56 am
Its only thinking that makes this appear difficult. It is only difficult because the mind has been almost successfully programmed to believe that the thinking is the means to success. Just think about it. I have moments when meditating, that it actually appears to be a relief to let the mind go into thought!! In essence, what is trying to be done is to GENTLY realise that we are contrary to what we have been lead to believe.
Posted by ricnz1 on 11.17.09 10:09 am
The Key Thing to see is that “you” don’t exist as a separate entity.
Where is this character? Are you a sensation? Are you a thought? If so, which one? Do you chose your thoughts?. Seeing the absence of this problematic entity, the problems of having to understand or awaken or get enlightened drop away. See that there is no one who could get this.
Thoughts are happening, actions are happening, planets are spinning, its awesome!! Its a miracle. You are this untouchable spacelike awareness that everything is appearing in right now.
Posted by Ronna on 11.17.09 10:58 am
If you want to feel good and can afford it, send in a small donation to keep this site happening. I did and I feel great!!
Posted by fernando on 11.17.09 12:53 pm
“Comfort is not the goal – there is no goal – not even enlightenment. But maybe it’s a comfort to realise that this is, whether it is seen, or not, by no one. There are no goals, for goals need time, and there is no time; time is a convenience, just as the separate individual is. Oneness is, no matter what. Giving up may seem to happen. Or it may not. There is nothing to do but what is done. And if what is done is seeking, and what is felt is longing, and what is experienced is suffering, perhaps it is a comfort to know that even separation is oneness, in a particularly tricky guise.” (Suzanne Foxton)
Posted by Randall Friend on 11.17.09 1:24 pm
Cheryl,
Beneficial for who? The “who” is a product of this same “thingness”. Are you a thing among things?
The suffering in the world is only there if there is a world. Can you find a world outside of your own Self? Isn’t the “world of separate things and people” more of the same?
Without this habitual application of “thingness”, what really are you, right here and now? You will find that you cannot say without this crutch of duality. This imaginary reality can be completely negated yet can you ever negate your own being?
Is knowledge of your Self dependent on any concept?
Right here and now, your true nature is shining as “awareness” – untouched and undivided by any concept. Yet notice that once we say “awareness”, the mind immediately rushes in with it’s template of duality or “thingness”, turning “awareness” into a “thing” or function of a “thing”.
If this simplicity is noticed, awareness is found to be the very nature of all experience, all appearance – these things are dependent on awareness – awareness is not dependent on any “thing”. If you point out anything at all, are you ever pointing out anything but awareness itself?
Posted by claudia on 11.17.09 2:05 pm
Here’s a great pointer from the very source:
“The individual person’s contact with the awareness of the Absolute can como about only when the mind is ‘fasting’ as it were, because then the process of conceptualizing ceases. When the mind is quiet, it reflects Reality; when the mind is absolutely motionless it dissolves and only Reality remains. That is why it is necessary to be one with conciousness. When the mind feastsm Realty disappears; when the mind fasts, Reality enters.”
Nisargadatta
Posted by Scarfox on 11.17.09 4:39 pm
There is being, things happen in being, you are being not things. When you believe you are things, you have other things (thoughts) that seem to identify with other things. Meanwhile the whole time it was just being and things, not even separate things, and you are being.
Posted by David on 11.18.09 3:16 am
For those who enjoyed Areti’s interview with Suzanne Foxton there is a new interview with her on Conscious TV
Posted by Cheryl on 11.18.09 5:28 am
Yes realizing I am moving away from the main pointers. ‘Thinking’ there is a ‘self’ that is separate and can be non separate and of a ‘world’ that I am not separate from. What world? Who am I? Back to the basics…I know for sure non-duality is ‘it’. Not worried, just earnest. Thanks Randall.
Posted by Ronna on 11.18.09 6:23 am
Suzanne Foxton’s interview on conscious.tv is a very clear pointer
Posted by Ronna on 11.18.09 8:46 am
I was wondering if it is possible for you to interview Francis Lucille?
Posted by IdahoBert on 11.18.09 8:51 am
The “architecture” Rodney’s expression has such depth–for me at least–because of its utter minimalism. He gives you so little to grab on to precisely for the reason that there is nowhere to go. There are no handholds because there is nothing to climb. He doesn’t feed the beast.” He ignores it. Thank you for making his take on Advaita available.
Posted by Ronna on 11.18.09 3:26 pm
I thought this interview was very good!
Posted by Ronna on 11.18.09 3:27 pm
Urban Guru Cafe in Second Life was amazing again, thanks Randall, Jason and Areti
Posted by Jacob on 11.19.09 5:12 am
Ric on your classic Kiwi style journey from here to here how did the identification with the body fall away for you. the body appears in this seeing this space our true Identity, yet the body is so familliar to the me. thought is paused and yes there is something that is present and aware but the body hangs there with a familliararety about it .also in this paused thought space, theres still a subtle sense of the jacob there a familliar me feeling. just interested in how this went for you , and anyone else who would like to comment on this, thanks alot love jacob
Posted by fernando on 11.19.09 7:14 am
Jacob, the ‘body’ is only sensation + concepts.
Everything is sensations + concepts, and where all of these appear?
In what you ARE !!!
Posted by Mark Jamieson on 11.19.09 12:23 pm
Cool. Somehow, while reading this, I saw the thought “I”, that seeking guy, the one I had been mistaking for “me”. Things are a bit up in the air at the moment.
Posted by ricnz1 on 11.19.09 12:47 pm
Haha, I love the classic Kiwi Style description.
Its great to see you are really looking into the fundamentals here. There’s no problem with there being a subtle sense of a Jacob present. Just see that “subtle sense” is appearing in this clear knowing space that you are. Don’t try and work it out with
The mind, the mind appears in this clear space of awareness. When the mind starts to try and grasp this (usually a feeling of frustrating and tightness), use it as an opportunity to see that mental grasping is happening in something bright clear and immediate. All the mind can say about this is “I don’t know”.
If you feel that you are located in the body (cluster of sensations), have a good look to see if this is true. Try and find the exact spot where you are. Take your time with this. There’s no rush; you can’t go anywhere. Your always here. Bring up a mental image of yourself, and see how that this image is appearing in a clear knowing space that is cognizing the image. As Bob says “the false cannot stand up to investigation”.
The best pointer is your own presence really, that’s always here. Notice how you are always here and now without a doubt. This is what is being pointed to. Its not like an object that can be known. It is the very knowing itself.
To talk about how this went for “me” can be confusing, because the key insight is seeing the total absence of the me. Anyway the story goes: when I came across John Wheeler, Gilbert and Sailor Bob. I knew this was it. In a way I had to forget most of what I had read and heard and thought I knew!!. This message was so direct. I remember seeing Bob on youtube and after that a certain confidence in this gave me the courage to not get caught up in the stories my mind was spinning. My mind was saying things like, “you haven’t been seeking long enough to get this”, “You need to be in the presence of someone realized to get this”, “they can get it, but there’s something a little bit wrong with you”, “you have to be a special lucky person, it won‘t happen for you” etc. I would use these thoughts as pointers to my own doubtless presence. I started feeling quite free and happy. I was starting to see that these thoughts didn’t actually have any power. The knowing of these thoughts was doubtless. I actually started not to care whether I got it or not. Then I was just at work and it spontaneously became apparent that there wasn’t anyone staring out of these eyes. Just empty space. I had a look for myself and found it totally absent. Then I could see that I was nowhere and everywhere at the same time. The biggest joke of all was that it was the same self that had been looking for myself. I was astounded to see that this presence had been me all along. The one who had been searching was the one sought. It was just the belief that there was a seeker and that there was something to get, like enlightenment that seemingly veiled this.
So the key is not to worry Jacob, it sounds like you are really starting to look at this. Let the pointers do there work. There’s really nothing to get. If you believe you are not fully clear on this, then use some of the pointers above or others that are abundant on this sight. Most of all see that your own presence is all you really need. Love Ric
Posted by Jacob on 11.19.09 7:49 pm
Nice one amegos , a multi-content contribution, classic. love Jacob
Posted by gilbert on 11.20.09 12:28 am
It is good to see so many comments happening. Some good ‘stuff’ being expressed. A new program will appear over the coming weekend – no hints as to who it will be.
I couldn’t make it to the SL meeting on Tuesday eve due to some work interstate but for anyone interested, I plan to be there for the coming Tuesday meeting, so come along.
Posted by gilbert on 11.20.09 9:51 am
RODNEY STEVENS NOTE:
Hi Folks, Rodney Stevens here. Just wanted to thank y’all for the gracious and engaging comments. It was a thorough pleasure to talk and laugh with Areti, whose questions were choice and significant. We had a lovely time talking about lots of off-air topics, as well (I didn’t know Australia has Targets!) And she and Gilbert did a stellar job of editing the interview.Hi Folks, Rodney Stevens here. Just wanted to thank y’all for the gracious and engaging comments. It was a thorough pleasure to talk and laugh with Areti, whose questions were choice and significant. We had a lovely time talking about lots of off-air topics, as well (I didn’t know Australia has Targets!) And she and Gilbert did a stellar job of editing the interview.
UGC is doing a superb job of presenting and interviewing those who have a genuine understanding of who and what they truly are. But even more important, UGC provides a beautiful forum (graphically and otherwise) in which serious seekers can comfortably ask questions and make comments.
Non-duality isn’t something that’s difficult, “far-off”, or metaphysical (though its sublimeness is without parallel). It is, for the most part, a teaching that points to the fact that self-realization is simply a matter of seeing or understanding that which is immediately before you. There is absolutely no need examine egoic constructs, debate notions of a perceiver and the perceived, or sit cross-legged on a floor or cave until you faint from exhaustion or exposure. Indeed, before you take a single step towards any of those endeavors, you are awareness itself. You are THAT. See the utter and magnificent reality of this as you read these very words. Allow yourself to be paused–Full Stop!–by the beauty and enormity of that fact. Then you will see yourself as Yourself, radiant spaciousness without beginning or end.
Posted by kent on 12.02.09 1:38 am
Thanks to Rodney for the simple & easy-to-understand pointing.