Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
71. What is THAT ?
Posted on 02.12.10 12:02PM under Bob Adamson, Gilbert Schultz, Jeff Foster, Randall Friend, Stephen Wingate
No Crusade – No Mission. You may think and believe that you have heard it all before. Well, maybe the salient points have not hit home as yet. So this is why we take a look at some of them in the fresh presentation of short extracts (snippets as Arteti calls them). In this ‘part two’ there are clips from the early programs
Music includes: Bob Dylan, Eric Satie, Annour Brahem, Matt Walters (Aussie singer songwriter) Bliss, Rivertribe (Aussie band) and a few others I will add to this list soon.
The UGC is a free podcast on the subject of Non Duality. Nothing quite like it appears anywhere else. Small donations can be made via the websiteto keep this site happening. Warm regards from the UGC Team. No Crusade – No Mission.
Posted by gilbert on 02.12.10 12:56 pm
Everything is THAT.
The mind asks what is THAT?
THAT is everything. without a single exception.
THAT is the all inclusive nature of No Thing.
You are THAT.
Isn’t it so obvious and self-evident?
Posted by WallyD on 02.13.10 1:59 am
Thank you Areti and Gilbert, the people you have selected have in fact helped me to see that all my suffering is based in the False Belief in a separate self who has problems. Without the Dialog in my head about me and my story and my life there is no such thing as suffering or problems. I have spent way too much time worrying about something that isn’t real. Its like I had a tooth ache for years and all my thoughts were about my tooth, so I go to the dentist and he says theres nothing he can do because the tooth I claimed to be in pain was never there. The That that everything is doesn’t suffer.
Posted by gilbert on 02.13.10 4:30 am
Looks like ‘we’ may have ‘done it’.
Looks like these last two programs have hammered it home.
Or maybe Bob’s comment near the end of the program ‘took the wind out of the sails’.
Someone emailed and expressed some gratitude.
Another wrote in using a reverse psychology trick, trying to get us to interview them.
And another wrote an abusive email addressed to me, as if their life long suffering was my fault.
Hell’s Bell’s. I am holding the door open for them to walk out of their ridiculous psychological mind trap.
Can’t win with ‘seekers’.
They want it all according to their rules and the fact is that there are no rules. It is not a game.
If you believe that you are separate, then there will be suffering, suffering for that believed in entity.
It is only a ME that can suffer, be offended or complain.
There is NO point in PRETENDING to know.
You can name it with any concept, even call it ‘not-knowing’ but the concepts wont save you. Belief in any concept is slavery.
The bottom line is:
KNOWING is all that is happening.
All that is happening is KNOWING.
It is ALL-inclusive.
Everything is contained in the KNOWING.
Omniscience. You are THAT.
Posted by Ronna on 02.13.10 4:50 am
Thanks again for being so clear and obvious!! Nisargadatta was described as a Tiger in his ferocity for eliminating spiritual and intellectual bullshit, crap, ideas, thoughts, theory´s, explainations, descriptions, religions, etc. etc. Thank you Gilbert for doing the same. I am so happy about this new podcast, thanks for taking the time and effort as well as putting up the monetary funds it takes to produce these excellent interviews. Off for another listen.
Posted by Cheryl on 02.13.10 7:04 am
What is psychological suffering? We say it is a ‘belief’ in a separate me character. It is a definite feeling of isolation. I am here and everything else is out there. It is pointed out that it is only a misperception, a ‘belief’ in a limited, separate body/mind. This separate body/mind is only a concept or idea supported and reinforced by thought. What we are in reality is prior to thought. Maybe there is some built up energy in the belief of a separate self, but that doesn’t mean it is impossible to let go of that belief. Let it come let it go, just don’t believe it! Let it in its own time work itself lose. Then there is space for seeing/knowing in the immediacy.
What is there to lose but needless suffering?
Posted by fernando on 02.13.10 7:37 am
Without the template of words, there is NO problem whatsoever.
With the template of words, there are only APPARENT problems.
Posted by gilbert on 02.13.10 8:24 am
Please send a sympathy card to everyone who has contact with ME.
It seems I, this ‘me’, am impossible to be around.
Those who are attracted to me want to smother me with affection and when that affection is disregarded or rejected, this me gets attacked.
Apparent love turns to abusive onslaughts.
The crazy thing is that I don’t possess a ‘me’ at all. I never truly ever have had a me.
Neither have you – or what you truly are has never possessed a me.
The me I am talking about is a fiction. It is not my ‘me’ I am talking about. So, it must be yours.
We assume so much without investigating the ’cause’.
The ’cause’ of suffering is the belief in ‘me’.
In the simplicity of SEEING that there is no me here NOW – it is known that there never ever could have been a me at any time. That is the clarity of unobstructed seeing. It is natural seeing. It is not post mind translation.
Ironically, it appears that I use this apparent me here to expose the me. That is misunderstood more often than not. That is the beauty of it.
Eventually the coin drops.
None of my comments are directed at any particular me.
The ‘me concept’ is the same concept where-ever it appears.
Once exposed, it can never be truly believed in again.
it is only a me that can be impatient.
There is no separation. That is unequivocal.
Posted by fernando on 02.14.10 12:26 am
BE the Seeing-Knowing you ARE.
Anyway, you are THAT
(and NOT what you THINK you are – you are not a thought!)
Posted by gilbert on 02.14.10 1:03 am
Yes……by bringing in the concept of ‘I am the seeing-knowing’ and nothing but that, it allows those very concepts to dissolve into the original ground which is Seeing-Knowing.
You have always been THAT…………and even this thing we call time is just a concept.
Posted by claudia on 02.14.10 2:32 am
“What do you have to do to be awake?” (Sailor Bob)
Wakefulness is always there. Even while I am seemingly entangled in a thoughts and drama, even while I am dreaming – I can tell – in the middle of a nightmare, there was this recognition, that the dream character can’t do nothing to wake up – and in the instant ‘I’ stopped struggling (against apparent lethal forces), I woke up…
Our fear of death is nothing but this, the fear of the unknown, of what cannot be grasped by thoughts, words, concepts. But what apparently dies is only a dream character… and it ‘dies’ and ‘resurrects’ again hundreds, maybe thousands of times in a single day – within this dream story of ‘me’ – how do I know this?
By the way, most excellent these last two programs of Areti’s snipplets – as always, gorgeously edited with the music into perfect units.
Posted by fernando on 02.14.10 4:18 am
There is NOOOOOBODY here!!!
( Jesus! WHO said that? )
Posted by Scarfox on 02.14.10 5:09 am
Wakefulness and experiencing are powerful nondual pointers, and knowing that you are…
Posted by gilbert on 02.14.10 9:57 am
How can ‘you’ hear the message clearly if ‘you’ resist what is being pointed at?
It is so simple. It is simply ‘hearing’ – without the minds translation being dumped on top.
There is no ‘you’ in the pure function of hearing.
Whatever ‘means’ are necessary to stop the mind (the me) are valid.
The lovey dovey message usually spurs imagination and transient indulgences in the believed in self-image. Useless.
A good punch in the ‘ego’ can do the trick.
Posted by gilbert on 02.15.10 2:37 am
Some of you will be pleased to hear that my contract for being a total ‘a hole’ is now over. Re-negotiations for a new contract have failed. I am pleased because I was growing tired of it myself. The bucket of water has been stirred up to the point of ‘wild turbulence’ and it is time to let it settle.
The brand new Bhakta phase will kick into gear real soon.
Love is the new catch phrase.
Love is all there is.
I love you all, without exception.
As Krishna says “I am the glint of light in your enemies eyes”.
Indiscriminate embracing all round. You are beautiful and perfect just as you are.
Posted by claudia on 02.15.10 3:40 am
Hahaha, Gilbert, I am sure that with the brand new Baktha phase you will baffle more than one…
The emphasis lies in “with no exception” and “indiscriminate”, both concepts that are unbearable for the imaginary ME.
Posted by Cheryl on 02.15.10 4:09 am
Personally my ego needed a good beating. It was pointed out to me that if everything is the same being then how can there be discrimination. It’s just a matter of SEEING that. It will never happen in the mind as a me, in thought, because there will always be some negative stuff to piss you off. The beauty of non duality is that every expression is IT. There’s none of this controlling the mind business. It’s called the natural state for a reason. Just give yourself a break and relax into it. Nothing to lose but your angst.:)
Posted by max on 02.15.10 4:48 am
I have noticed lately when listening to this subject matter it is as if I am listening to a foreign language. I struggle trying to follow the speakers meaning, where as in the past it seemed relatively easy to track.
Has anyone had this experience or should I see a neurologist?
I greatly appreciate any comments.
Posted by claudia on 02.15.10 5:11 am
You say it, Max: “I have noticed”… How do you know both apparent states, the ease and the struggle? You ARE THE NOTICING, nothing else.
Posted by max on 02.15.10 5:21 am
Claudia, thank you.
To be more specific.
Inside the apparent conceptual experience, has any other mind/body experienced this phenomenon?
Just a tad concerned about the sudden shift.
Thanks again
Posted by Randall Friend on 02.15.10 5:46 am
Discern between the “I”-thought, that habitual story which comes in parallel, mixed up with activities like thinking, feeling and acting, and the true “I” or Self, which is ever-present as the absence of a thinker, feeler or actor. That “aware nothingness” is the very basis or ground from which all thoughts, feelings and activities arise.
But the mind rejects nothingness. It cannot fathom it’s own demise. It holds onto that imaginary “I” which is only ever a thought and objective.
What you truly are has no attributes to hold onto yet it’s ever present. It’s always here. What is that? Find out. Discard any thought or concept about yourself. Remain in THAT which is always here, that BY WHICH the world or appearance is known.
Don’t seek something to arrive, something yet to come, for this is always missing the point. Reality must be ever-present. Reality cannot be yet to come. Discard imagination and settle for reality alone.
Posted by Cheryl on 02.15.10 5:48 am
Yes I have had that experience many times. Not to say I know anything, but what may help is not to try to figure out the pointers themselves, but more what they are pointing to – in direct exprience. What may be happening is the mind is coming up with all kinds of objections and doubts and problems and makes it complicated because it doesn’t believe it can be that simple. It’s more a matter of discarding, like when you dig a well you don’t dig a bunch of shallow holes you keep digging in one place. Then you’re left with just BEING, which the mind, as hard as it tries, cannot understand.
Posted by Jackson on 02.15.10 6:37 am
Max,
I can relate to what you are saying. For me there was a time when I didn’t like a certain speaker’s voice (ha!) and I couldn’t understand what the hell was being pointed to. I found him really hard to listen to. Continuing to return here it dawned that his pointing/words were just what was needed to blast the illusion of a “me”. There were times when logging off this site I felt more confused than ever but returning always happened.
For me it took really zeroing in on Gilbert’s & Randall’s commments. I read & reread them many, many times over. As I did the confusion lifted.
Posted by Cheryl on 02.15.10 9:16 am
Max – On John Wheeler’s site he has a sucession of eight talks/interviews under the heading pointers. John’s approach is very no nonsense and practical and may resonate for you. Cheers.
Oh and happy Valentines day Gilbert, I love you too.:)
Posted by gilbert on 02.15.10 10:26 am
Words and ideas, concepts and imagination SEEMINGLY lead an imaginary entity away from the natural state.
Recognizing that what I am is not moving or changing is enough to ‘bring’ the un-doubt-able conviction of what I am.
The recognition is seemingly ‘happening’ in mind.
Pure cognition is prior to mind.
Peace of mind is ‘when’ the mind is not.
Yet this peace is not in time, so the illusion of some particular ‘when’ is only a translation in mind.
The mind translates the inexplicable into whatever it can assemble.
Watch the mind and be quiet.
There is truly nothing to do and there is no one to do it.
All doing is an appearance.
All attempts at non-doing are an appearance.
Stop struggling and simply be what you already are.
The sense of seeking cannot survive without belief in the concepts of seeking.
Notice that there is no one seeking in the clear and empty nature of pure cognition.
Posted by max on 02.15.10 1:16 pm
Thanks for the great pointers!
Posted by carlodelysid on 02.15.10 1:25 pm
Gilbert, this site says far more about you to me, than any offenses been mentioned. You are exactly what I been wanting to hear for a long time, with a good laugh. Thank you so much for the fresh air. It’s the most impossible subject and you guys nail it with great tunes and clear as a tack expressions. Really creative and refreshingly irreverent work. I got nothing but gratitude for you all, and I dig Areti’s expressions.
I would like to ask what Bob’s last words to Areti this episode were. I couldn’t make them out. (Ed: He says “Could it take place at any other time?”)
All the best…… enjoy bhakta
Posted by Ghebrey on 02.15.10 2:14 pm
I have found from Benjamin Smythe this:
What is the Experience of the answer to the question “Who am I?”
The mind will try to tell a story about the answer, it will try to give a concept.
“There is nothing” “I am everything” “I am the Seeing” and so on…
Discard them and wait for the experience of the answer.
Ask “Who am I?”
And wait for the experience of the answer.
As simple as that.
I hope Benjamin Smythe will be on Urban Guru Cafe, he is on youtube.
Posted by gilbert on 02.15.10 3:02 pm
Wait as long as you want. There is no answer.
There is only ever experiencing – uninterrupted experiencing.
As I pointed out earlier……
“Witness the disappearance of a thought, any thought..(or the question Who am I?)…..and observe the absence of a witness.”
The pointing does not come any more direct than that.
However, the momentum of a busy mind that is searching for an answer will always miss the empty ground, this naked cognition.
Posted by jenne on 02.15.10 3:09 pm
yes punch punch punch!
Posted by fernando on 02.15.10 10:13 pm
«There is ONLY ever experiencing – uninterrupted experiencing.» (Gilbert)
That’s the KEY !!
Posted by fionauk on 02.15.10 11:33 pm
Thanks so much, Areti and Gilbert, for this and all the other podcasts. This one is particularly powerful in pointing out the utter obviousness of awareness – right here, right now, with nothing to do to find it.
And I really love the music, too.
Posted by gilbert on 02.16.10 12:06 am
Thank you for the encouragement. Areti does a fantastic job with the interviews, in my opinion. She also edits the interviews so we don’t have to listen to hum’s and erh’s or anything unnecessary. I toss a bit of music in to fill in some gaps….and give the listener some space to reflect on what is being shared. It is difficult to follow endless talking, for some. It is amazing how a short break from listening to speech allows the mind to remain open. It is an old trick I learned in my career in Radio. Bob implied in the latest program that the UGC was mine. That is incorrect although it may seem like it at times. i am just a caretaker. It was actually Areti’s idea to do a podcast and she and a visitor from Holland, Eric, spent a whole week building the site from scratch about two years ago.
The programs are put together on a Mac Book Pro (please send a new one Mr. Apple) and many of the interviews are done through Skype.
Anyway, it seems that lots of you ‘happy chappies’ enjoy the offerings. AND….it is not over yet. The Fat Lady has not been seen anywhere on the site as yet.
Even if she turns up we will gag her and tie her up out back.
We have some good stuff still to come. I know that this site is a blessed relief for some. The humor really helps some to relax.
Posted by claudia on 02.16.10 4:28 am
In the abscense of thoughts what is revealed is the boundless, timeless space of awereness in which everything appears – the one source out of which the world arises and into which it dissolves again continously. In the absence of thoughts, there are no things and nothing happens – “heaven” and “hell”, “good” and “bad”, “light” and “darkness”, “outside” and “inside”, “love” and “hate”, “black” and “white”, etc., etc., are but words without any substance. It is amazing though, how in the moment one says “this is hell” or “I am depressed” or “I am in love”, hell, depression and love seem to actually become a state for the believed in “me”. By consistently diregarding what ever the mind attempts to assert or negate, reality is revealed -seemingly, for it has been there all along, only unnoticed.
Posted by Jenne on 02.16.10 5:28 am
Infinite Gratitude!!!
Posted by Ronna on 02.16.10 6:52 am
Hey Gilbert, gagging and tieing up the Fat Lady is a good description of what Bhakti leads to when it gets offended!! The lastest comments are very good.
Posted by mark on 02.16.10 7:43 am
There seems to be a recurrence of the question: Purpose? What is the purpose of THAT? If there is none, then is it pointless to seek that which has no purpose?
The mind/body has to find more than just food and shelter. There is mental as well as physical nurturing. Once it is seen that i am not the body, where, or how is energy directed?
I guess the answer will be something like ‘energy goes where it goes’ or something equally vague to the mind. I suppose i ask this from a position of concern about action or prior to action, motivation. just an expression of mind contraction over here..
‘ ‘I’ve just about reached breaking point!’ he snapped. ‘ (Roger McGough)
Posted by claudia on 02.16.10 8:07 am
Another question could be: what is the purpose of knowing the purpose? In the abscense of thoughts, in the timeless, boundless space of awareness it is revealed that everything, the whole world arises and dissolves again from and into the ONE, just like the waves of the ocean – One Essence, one Energy, one Life, one Source – appearing, expressing, manifesting as Everything. All questions, doubts and conflicts are resolved in the simple seeing-knowing. No intelectual answer will ever ever satisfy.
Posted by fernando on 02.16.10 9:04 am
«Comfort is not the goal – there is no goal – not even enlightenment. But maybe it’s a comfort to realise that this IS, whether it is seen or not, by no one. There are no goals, for goals need time, and there is no time; time is a convenience, just as the separate individual is. Oneness IS, no matter what. Giving up may seem to happen. Or it may not. There is nothing to do but what is done. And if what is done is seeking, and what is felt is longing, and what is experienced is suffering, perhaps it is a comfort to know that even separation is oneness, in a particularly tricky guise.» (Suzanne Foxton)
Posted by gilbert on 02.16.10 10:54 am
It is all conceptual. Even the concept that you think these concepts and that somehow you choose them.
EVERYTHING is ‘happening’ spontaneously.
The concept of an ‘I’ being the ‘doer’ is just spontaneously appearing. Actions or event appear to ‘happen’.
The ‘map’ in the mind, the map of ‘what is happening’ is spontaneously appearing without anyone’s permission.
Don’t be like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Break the fixation of focus on ‘the parade of the particular’ – let the senses open up.
Don’t fight with the the messenger.
Don’t stay stuck on “who is going to do it?”……
Stop listening to the stories of me, playing in your head and truly SEE what is going on. You may be surprised at what you find.
Indescribable.
True understanding is indescribable.
‘Sometimes’ it is as if the words to describe it are on the tip of my tongue…….but I find that no words can convey it.
You want a Hint: It was right here billions of years before the first word was uttered and it will be here billions of years after the last word is spoken. Yet it is timeless.
You may laugh so loud ‘when’ it is recognized that all the chickens will fall off their perch.
Posted by mark on 02.16.10 12:01 pm
As the fabric of mind reduces to thin thin veil and the light can be seen shining through, it seems like the death throws of mind spasms, hurt more intensely. The continuing presence of UGC podcasts is like a benign tension holding the false and the true together only till the false silently (screaming) slips away
Night and day. Absence and presence.
This and that. You and me. One and all. And. And.
Posted by gilbert on 02.16.10 12:07 pm
Make it as dramatic as you wish, it will not change anything.
TRUE Understanding is silent and wordless.
The thin veil is the concept of being separate – it is the concept of ‘me’ and ‘not me’.
It divides nothing at all. How can something that never existed slip away?
It is just a noticing that ‘something’ has left an open space – a disturbance has dissolved.
Presence abides ‘forever’ beyond the limitations of mind.
Posted by gilbert on 02.16.10 12:19 pm
Pardon my intrusion: Separation is not Oneness and to entertain such nonsense is completely useless.
Of course Oneness is ALL inclusive. The sense of separation is an illusion. It will vanish if it is investigated. Oneness will never vanish because it has never appeared.
Just like your own ‘self’ it remains invisible and untouched by anything that appears and disappears.
P.S. Don’t let Suzanne lead you down to the river.
Posted by mark on 02.16.10 12:38 pm
How to abide in that presence? (With so many seeming distractions) Thats the question.
Posted by gilbert on 02.16.10 1:08 pm
(What can you postulate outside of presence?)
It is not a question of HOW to abide in that presence.
Presence IS all there IS.
Recognize that.
Then the questions of HOW to DO will vanish all by themselves.
The subtle belief that ‘I’ can do something in order to achieve some ‘state’ is the ‘problem’.
ALL states are appearances in THAT. All states are THAT but no state, whatever state it may appear to be, high or low, have NO independence from the clear and present cognition – which is FORMLESS.
By continuing to insist that ‘I will get it’ the natural state recedes from your grasp.
Stop trying to be something ‘other’ than what you are and just rest in being.
It is only a ‘me’ that wants to know HOW.
Posted by Ghebrey on 02.16.10 3:42 pm
Gilbert said:”There is no answer.”
The answerless answer is Silence.
That’s the experience of the answer to the question “Who am I?”
Maybe “wait” is not the appropriate word.
“Go after” to the experience of the answer would be more accurate.
To settle into this simple answer.
Like you said: “TRUE Understanding is silent and wordless.”
Posted by gilbert on 02.16.10 4:23 pm
Go After anything implies duality and something missing.
What is being pointed to is waht you already ARE.
Where is the need to go after something?
But do not be discouraged. It is inexpressible.
No one can express it accurately.
All that can be done is to point.
The recognition ‘happens’ ONLY because it is already cognized.
You KNOW – beyond any doubt.
It is only the mind (or mund) that presents a problem and it is invalid before it has a chance to gather any substance.
Where the seeing is ‘happening’ it is obviously clear and empty.
You are looking OUT of it.
Therefore START from the FACT that you are THAT.
End of story.
Posted by gilbert on 02.16.10 4:33 pm
There is no need to talk about the dark night of the soul or some personal story about a pain body. That is completely unnecessary and any teacher worth his salt would know it is useless. Any program presenter worth his salt would also know it is useless . BUT if your agenda is to be popular and suck people in, then sure talk about that unnecessary crap.
There is a natural preference to side step all such nonsense here.
Be direct and plain, do not entertain the seeker with nonsense that perpetuates the belief in a ME.
As long as you believe that there is a solid ‘someone’ who is going to become enlightened in some future time, then a subtle shroud of ignorance clouds the mind.
‘When’ this someone is seen as a transparency, a pattern appearing within this direct and immediate seeing (that I am), then it is known in an un-mediated way to be an appearance in this knowing presence (that I am) and so it is known directly and immediately that I am not this appearance. This pattern of belief commonly called ‘me’ is not what I am.
‘Then’, which can only ever be ‘this immediacy’ of now, this habitual belief pattern has already lost its hold in the mind.
Even so, it is just belief and never has had any real grasp on anything but itself. It can vanish without a trace so very easily. It does disaapear every night in deep sleep.
(This univited guest does not have to stay for breakfast. Kick him out).
It re-appears due to it being a long-standing habit, a ‘pattern of recurrence’. Now its roots have been cut or loosened and with continued effortless seeing, it is totally seen through and it appear to evaporate, taking with it the afflictive identification of that habitual belief in being a limited being, a mere personality.
Paradoxically for the mind, there is ‘no one’ making any effort to bring about this freedom. – SEEING is already happening.
It truly is already ‘Pure Seeing’ and this seeing is from beyond the instrument of seeing. It is a clear space of freedom itself and is not limited by the minds interpretations, which are only ever transient content of mind, acquired mind – memory or translations of whatever events and experiences that have ‘appeared’ and disappeared in that seeing.
In looking into things carefully, one can see clearly that all of our repeating referencing to a self-center are just a series of appearances in the clear and empty nature of mind. They have NO power to bind anyone.
Whatever happens, SEEING is still uninterrupted.
Posted by fernando on 02.17.10 1:16 am
OK, Gilbert. I know what you mean.
Suzanne says: “… even separation is ONEness, in a particularly TRICKY guise”.
If EVERY-thing is an expression of ONEness, then the ‘sense of separation’ is ONEness too (‘in a particularly tricky guise’). In other words, the sense of separation is NOT separate…
You said, “Of course Oneness is ALL inclusive. The sense of separation is an illusion. It will vanish IF IT IS INVESTIGATED. Oneness will never vanish because it has never appeared.”
Is this INVESTIGATION, in your view, what Suzanne neglects?
I’ll appreciate very much your comment, and thank you.
Posted by suki on 02.17.10 3:12 am
Being active or still, You always know that you are. But, you can never know what you are. An all encompassing living mystery that does not divide into the knower and the known. Alive and eternal, beyond the reach of the grasping mind. Always here and now. Silent. Deep and vast. Yes, the wordless….
Posted by gilbert on 02.17.10 3:34 am
Well if I can be candid for a moment, Suzanne Foxton does not exist.
The essence of this ‘investigation’ is SEEING.
Seeing is ‘happening’ and it is all inclusive.
Everything is the SEEING. It is not particular.
When I look at Suzanne, what do I see? The ego sense of ‘me’ appears to play with some ‘past experience’ and it is invested in because it appears to bring some benefit, some attention from ‘others’.
Of course it could not be any other way than it is.
There are more teachers today than you can poke a stick at. Most of them are not at all clear and it shows quite obviously that they have not got a clue what they are talking about.
Some of them boldly say that “the investigation is just more seeking”. That is nothing but ignorance. Why would they say such a thing?
Because it is meaningless to their ’cause’.
If they were to affirm that the investigation was useful, then they would have to speak about it clearly. But since they do not know anything about the investigation, they must denounce it flatly and close the case. I am not saying that Suzanne is one of these.
Cult like figures are popular and quirky teachers get a lot of attention. Osho for one had a huge following but his message was often clear and then it went off at a tangent. Mooji speaks very clearly but his sideshow alley behavior screams of attention deficit syndrome….”Look at me…I am special”
The thing is seekers are hungry for a hero and they worship just about anyone who fits the IMAGE of a holy ‘person’. It is pathetic.
Of course I am stirring up a hornet’s nest with a bunch of words right here. No one is quite sure if I am being genuine or simply stirring up some ‘feelings’. That is the beauty of it.
If you KNOW your own true nature, then no words can disturb you.
Nothing can destroy the natural state……..and the one who knows this is backed up by REALITY.
The one who does not know their own true nature is on tender hooks and highly protective of their ‘image’. They can’t go out of the house without brushing their hair and putting on some smart clothes etc.
They often have ‘projects’ which require large sums of money to be filled by donations. They have a team of ‘promotional specialists’.
They talk about the Dark night of the soul and about how the pain body is to be dealt with.
They sell thousands of books and DVD’s etc.
Yet no one seems to get out of the seeking mode.
It is 3.30am here and I am ranting and raving about nothing. WHO cares?
Suzanne is a pain in the butt, just like all of us. (Watch this space…..for a clever response from our ‘girl in the kitchen’. Ha.)
Someone is bound to say “Who do you think you are….what gives you the right etc….”
Well, I say where else can you find such entertaining material as this at 3am in the morning?
I can’t help it, I love to stir – but I love you all. Love is all there is.
Posted by Cheryl on 02.17.10 4:51 am
Nisargadatta called it the food body. It is so complex and miraculous yet it is nothing permanent. It’s not who you are. What an illusion it is. What a mysterious thing this bodily expression that we label little old me and instantly make it small. Like what we are is contained in that. That is fear. Yet it’s only a thought. The pointer one essence expressing as everything says it all. All we need is to stop ‘believing’ that what we are is separate, that is only arrogance anyway. The whole special thing has got to go…everything is THAT.
Listen with an open mind to the pointers that are generously given…what a breath of fresh air you are Gilbert, thank you.
Posted by gilbert on 02.17.10 9:49 am
Yes, and in fact we don’t have to do anything at all.
The ‘food body’ is food for the consciousness.
Life lives on life.
The Whole Universe is a food body for the Consciousness.
The Expression of the One Essence is this manifestation…..a living organism, self-sustaining, self-shining presence-awareness.
All the elements are arranged in a perfect symphonic display.
A ‘rainbow’ of pure light displayed as all possibilities.
It is SELF-KNOWING – SELF-Regulating – SELF-AWARE.
A Living Planet – a Living Solar System – a Living Galaxy – a Living Universe.
It is all a reflection of the One Life and the livingness you sense and feel is THAT.
Intelligence in action.
Thoughts may resonate and disappear into the simple wonder of it all. Let the sense of ‘me’ dissolve into the simple knowing of ‘I am’.
Every possibility and movement is actualizing AS this SELF-AWARE-NESS.
Even the ignorance of this obviousness is this One Essence expressing itself AS all possibilities.
‘You’ as a seemingly separate ‘thing’ cannot know anything.
There is ONLY one KNOWING Presence.
THAT does not change – and yet it is endless change in its expression.
Is there something, anything, that is unaware right now?
(There is a little more on this ‘point’ on my website)
Posted by gilbert on 02.17.10 11:06 pm
By the way, I don’t want to crowd the comment pages, even though I seem to do that, there is one pointer that needs to be mentioned often.
It does not matter what anyone says or whatever you think, you will NEVER work this out in the mind.
The nature of the mind is to divide – in fact that is what it is. It is the appearance of ‘many’. Oneness is clear and so obvious prior to thinking.
This obvious Oneness is divided by words – or seemingly divided by words.
In the moment that mind disappears, the moment thoughts stop, there is a clear and empty naked cognition.
It seems that everyone misses the significance of those thoughtless moments. Even though they appear to be only passing moments, the true nature of the natural state is always present as ‘wordless understanding’.
We cannot easily speak of it or capture it because it is silent and wordless.
This is just a reminder, using words to point at the indescribable nature of the natural state. It is not a state, as such…. And now I will stop.
Posted by Ronna on 02.18.10 5:03 am
Ah so great to hear you going off Gilbert!!! Ranting and raving is so entertaining, I laughed out loud a few times. Laughter is so great! I am sure Suzanne had a few herself!!
Posted by Cheryl on 02.18.10 9:55 am
Paul Hedderman said something like “we’re always thinking about what’s not happening”. Worrying about what is not even occurring. We just didn’t know or realize this wordless, silent, present knowing is a beneficial functioning. An infinite, benevolent source. For no one of course. Bob Adamson calls it pure intelligence. It can facilitate a release from anxiety about what’s not happening.
Posted by Cheryl on 02.19.10 4:31 am
My Buddhist teacher use to say “work on your delusions”. When in fact the only delusion was being talked into believing there was an I that had delusions. The truth is you already are what you seek. It’s like John Wheeler says instead of picking at the leaves and branches (delusions) go right to the root of the problem, the erroneous notion of a separate self that needs to be fixed. There is no separate self. It’s false. It doesn’t exist. So what is there left to do? The mind doesn’t like that much. It ‘thinks’ there has to be more to it, it can’t be that simple. Just investigate and see whether you exist any where other than thought. I am (fill in the blank). Are you? What is true and who said so?
Posted by suki on 02.19.10 4:47 am
Paul says it right, there is only verbing or uninterrupted experiencing. The noun “me” or “Tom, dick or sally” or whatever is mistaken to be the one doing the verbing, an uninvestigated assumption. The noun intermittently interjects as an interloper claiming doership, when in fact it is an arising object of experiencing or verbing. The “you or me” who you think you are no where to be found except as a thought.
So who or what is experiencing? The mind can’t find anything, so it can only say No-Thing!
Posted by claudia on 02.19.10 7:05 am
What makes UGC so atractive and actually unique (with Gilbert’s rantings as the hot ingredient) is, that it is a constant challenge and invitation to go all the way to the bottom of the matter and see what REALLY is going on; to not leave “the bread at the door of the oven”, or “half baked” at the first small insight, but really see for one’s own that what ever appears, disappears and there is no separate entity there that could do anything; that the “me” or “you” are nowhere to be found, except in thought, as Suki puts it so well. In the moment the resistence of the mind or ego to what IS is seen, it dissolves. And truly, it is the only “trip” worth taking. Maybe this could be the answer to Mark’s question of what the purpose of all this is: it is the only remedy against the madness and alienation that seem to rule the world.
Posted by fernando on 02.19.10 9:24 am
Nothing ever appears (or disappears).
Nothing was born, nothing will die.
There is ONLY Unchanging Presence.
(Change implies TWO ‘positions’, and there is only ONE-ness.
“Madness and alienation that seem to rule the world” is what we are. NO separation. There is no Gilbert, no Suzanne, no Claudia, no Suki, no Ronna, no ‘me’, no ‘you’, no…)
Posted by albert on 02.19.10 2:35 pm
About Paul Hedderman, he is clearly the real deal. Speaks 3 times a week in SF, tons of mp3 recordings on his web site. Says he never plans what he talks about, he just shows up and talks. I suppose like many here may not have planned to post what they post, yet they post some real gems. Keep hitting that same note. Repetition is helpful, like Paul says, if you think you need help.
UGC is a great web site. Thanks Gilbert and Areti and everyone!
Posted by Suzanne Foxton on 02.19.10 4:56 pm
Oh dear, pressure to be clever! A monumental challenge. Just for the record, such as it is…the thing that seemed to happen to “me” in the kitchen, the “ah-ha” moment that so many seem to chase, was remarkable only in that there was some realisation that everything, exactly as it is, is what I had been looking for. That nothing needed to change. It never happened…nothing is happening…and I mentioned it in the interview on this site as a direct answer to a question. I almost never mention it, unless asked, I never stress it, nor base some teaching upon it…it certainly doesn’t matter…we are what we are, now. There isn’t anything, any revelation, any apparent happening, any words or concepts, that can bring anyone to what they already are. There is no “ah-ha” moment. There is no time for some “ah-ha” moment to happen in some non-existent future. You are that now…this is it now. Concepts are fun to play with, and words are joyous creative tools, but good writing and good stories can get in the way of good pointing, which seems to be “my” story. However, there is no goal of teaching, or pointing, the only goal is to use words well. There is no way to teach someone what they already are…and if I neglect to encourage people to look for the “I” they think everything is happening to in order to come up with nothing, it’s simply because it never occurs to me to do so when I sit down to write. The writing is for its own sake, playing with concepts simply happens, or seems to. And in case anyone is getting me mixed up with some teachers mentioned…I don’t teach, I’ve spoken publicly when asked, and tried to make it clear that I don’t teach in those forums. I certainly have no projects, nor charge anyone any money. I started writing so I didn’t have to upset the apparent others in my circle of friends and family, and it took off from there. I certainly never started doing it to get attention…I did it to deflect attention, but the best laid schemes o’ Mice and Men gang aft agley! Very agley as it happens.
There is nowhere to go…thank goodness. And I love you too Gilbert.
Posted by Scarfox on 02.19.10 6:47 pm
not to mention the great production value of the podcasts!
Posted by fernando on 02.19.10 10:21 pm
Very glad to see you, Suzanne…
Posted by Scarfox on 02.20.10 6:03 am
No need to defend images now Suzanne!
Posted by Cheryl on 02.20.10 6:16 am
‘There is nothing to seek and find, for there is nothing lost.’
Nisargadatta
Posted by Suzanne Foxton on 02.20.10 6:46 am
There is nothing to defend.
Posted by gilbert on 02.20.10 11:58 am
If there are programs you wish to download and have not yet done so, I advise that you grab them now.
This site is gradually disappearing, or should I say it is being radically reduced.
Posted by Jacob on 02.20.10 11:37 pm
In response to suzanna’s comment on the ah ha moment, it all seems a bit contradictrary, Nisagadata spent 3 years with the sence i am to realize his true nature which obviosly was an ah ha moment, every non dual ,sharer of this stuff has had an experiance of recognition of this presence or whatever it is so comments that there is no ah ha moment seems misleading to the apparent seeker of this and contradictory to other so called discoverous of this non dual reality of what they report on it, anyway legging it out to work just thought id throw that in have a beauty and a slice of sponge x
Posted by gilbert on 02.20.10 11:48 pm
The ah ha is an expression arising from a recognition.
The re-cognition ‘happens’ only because whatever it is has been cognized ‘before’.
“Ah ha, yes I know this”.
We can call it ‘In-Seeing’.
All experiences come and go.
The pure cognition (seeing) does not come and go.
The mind is seemingly addicted to ‘becoming’. The mind IS time.
There is NO becoming in BEING.
One BEING.
One Awareness.
THAT expresses itself AS everything.
It all appears in the seeing.
There is only One Seeing happening…….in this seeing the mind imagines ‘points of view’ or an entity that can see.
It is imaginary.
At the center-less center of this Seeing, nothing is happening.
All that appears, disappears.
Reality is THAT which never changes.
You are THAT.
Posted by S on 02.21.10 2:22 am
Cheers, Gilbert and co. Gilbert, thanks again, friend. You and all seeming ‘others’ are and could never be anything other than ‘perfect’, and thanks for being you, for being Gilbert exactly as you appear. Even though there’s just empty nothing-aliveness appearing as Gilbert, as ‘others’, as ‘everything’. It’s all a dream, and I’m the dreamer and the dreamed, the whole lot! As S: all of ‘you’, thank you so much. But I’m not S. S Seems to be happening, that’s all. It has been thoroughly investigated and the conclusion is that there is without doubt nobody here, no real permanent individual at all, just very interesting stuff appearing to happen in this awareness-seeing-witnessing-loving-peace-light that ‘I’ am. Including a funny little ‘middle-aged’ body and an impatient husband. And I love it all. Right now there appears to be a wry smile and feelings of huge ‘love’ and gratitude for all you apparent ‘others’. And the (apparent) absence of mischief. Love to all xxxxx
Posted by Randall Friend on 02.21.10 5:10 am
Years of seeking are not required. Reading every book on nonduality is not required. No change of state, no special experience is required. Waiting for something to happen is missing what’s being pointed to.
The search can be over right this very minute – IF there is an openness to reality and willingness to question, an honesty that exposes assumption.
Right now there is no “me” seeing – that’s taking an imaginary character as the DOER of the seeing, the owner of the seeing. That “me” is 100% objective – appearance – you take yourself to be a sensation, a feeling, a thought, an image, a story – this imaginary character which is only there in belief or assumption.
WHAT IS IT that KNOWS this objective character, this feeling, this idea, this image? The “me” isn’t SEEING. The “me” is a mix of objectiveness arising, changing. You are THAT which is aware of that “me”-feeling.
Question what is it that you truly are – the sensations or the knowing of the sensations. The sensations are called “me” – your true Self is the knowing. Is this not the most obvious fact?
If not – there must be some belief to the contrary – it’s ok if there is yet that belief consistently obscures the simple and obvious true Self that you are. As long as what you take yourself to be is some object, some sensation, some image or idea, there will always be seeking, always be conditions.
Recognize right this very instant that the knowing must be what you are, prior to all thoughts, feelings, sensations, ideas. Don’t wait for some special state or experience to arrive – notice that all states and experiences come and go in that “space-like awareness” that you are, right now.
Posted by Cheryl on 02.21.10 5:18 am
Stop looking and start SEEING. Where ever you go that’s where you’ll be. There’s no point in liking one part of the dream and not the other. You are merely an impartial witness to the dream. What you are (as Gilbert says so eloquently) is the changeless. The illusion of a me that needs to be OK, and keeps looking for that,is only memory and imagination playing out the scenario of one day. Why not today, why not now? That is what the pointers are pointing to.
I wonder how important a genuine teacher is? Surely it must be beneficial to be around someone who is authentically living this truth. Suzanne thought she was going crazy until she came across Tony Parsons. Truth, it seems, it stranger than fiction.
Just talking to myself here, thanks for listening.:)
Posted by Randall Friend on 02.21.10 5:19 am
If there are doubts or questions arising, take the opportunity to ask in this forum. Visit the SL meetings, write an email or call on Skype. The desire to know your Self finally overcomes all other desires. IF that desire is there, nothing, literally nothing can stand in the way. Don’t waste one more second seeking something which will never come, as some spiritual experience.
Open your mind and allow for the possibility that what you are is not limited in any way, not bound, not in need of a search. What you are is the limitless being, absolute freedom. You already ARE that – it is only the idea that you are NOT that which seems to bind.
Discover the nature of that bondage and you will find it has no real existence.
Posted by Scarfox on 02.21.10 7:10 am
And so how does the knowing know itself when there is absolutely no objective content? Not even the black space of the closed eye, or is the awareness always inseparable to the objective content which is really awareness as well?
Posted by Randall Friend on 02.21.10 8:17 am
The “knowing” doesn’t know itself. The mind will never be able to slice and dice it. There is nothing outside of the “knowing”. Isn’t this direct experience, right now? A wave is not actually other than ocean – you have taken yourself to be a wave, seeking ocean. If the separateness of wave is taken to be reality, then the wave needs to seek the ocean. Maybe it gets only an “intellectual understanding” of ocean. Yet the wave never existed apart FROM ocean itself. It was never wave seeking. It was only ever ocean, in it’s fullness.
Right now you are the ocean taking itself to be only a limited wave. What is needed for the ocean to know it’s own fullness? Only for the idea that it is limited by the appearance of wave to fall away.
Where is that idea manifested right now? It is manifested in the idea “I AM”. It is manifested in the idea “I am thinking”.
That bondage, which is only imagination, is not broken resulting in freedom. That bondage is known to be imagination only, therefore it doesn’t need to be broken. Freedom is your natural state already.
Posted by gilbert on 02.21.10 2:05 pm
Just when you thought it was safe to escape back into oblivion, another program looms, ready to spread the message.
There is nothing to learn or capture. Listen to the new program with an open mind. it will appear soon enough.
Posted by Scarfox on 02.22.10 12:30 pm
If you are the knowing and it is undeniable that you are, then how does that knowing not know that it is? And right now there is knowing, what about in absolute nothingness or does that not exist, there is always an object to come back to (after sleep or death or meditation). I guess consciousness is unaware of itself when there is no object, but that never occurs?