77. Greg Goode – Standing as Awareness
Greg Goode is our guest this week. Gilbert explores this subject of Non Duality with Greg and some very interesting points are discussed.
Visit Greg’s website and attend his Non Dual Dinners if you are ever in Manhattan.
Greg’s site is HERE. Greg’s book “Standing as Awareness” is available from Non Duality Press.
Music by Danny Ross, Claude Challe, Hot Chocolate, Rivertribe and Ricky James and a tribute to Bob Newhart’s wit and whim.
The UGC is a free service – 77 programs produced for the benefit of all. Please consider making a small donation via this website and keep it kickin’
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Another program from a diverse selection of clear speakers on the subject of Non Duality. Everyone is unique. All point at THAT, which is beyond any absolutely accurate description. Enjoy.
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I love Bob Newharts advice at the end.
Great podcast!! I must ask is Areti not doing the interviewing anymore??
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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Wow, what a great surprise!! Thanks Everyone.
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Sorry what was the point about vision and senses?
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re: vision and senses….
Berkeley’s Three Dialogues
http://www.filepedia.org/files/George%20Berkeley%27s%20Three%20Dialogues%20Between%20Hylas%20and%20Philonous.pdf
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Just looked at a brief wikipedia blurb about Berkeley and I have a question(s):
I understand that he is using concepts including the concept of God, but is the following an accurate pointing?
“God is an infinite mind that perceives all”-
So is this ‘oneness’ perceiving – and the misidentification or ‘me’ is the apparent separate individual perspective?
I’m picturing a car being driven around and all of the sudden the headlights become eye-like and the car starts thinking “I am steering”, “I am a BMW”, “I am getting rusty”, “look at the other cars”, etc.
Is it counter productive to be conceptualizing like this or would it be better to use more direct terms? Honestly, sometimes there seems to be some insight or rawness that pops up THEN there is this dialogue that comes in and needs to validate it and put it into words and concepts.
Comments are greatly appreciated, Gilbert, Randall, Greg Goode, anyone?
Thank You.
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Don’t rely on any message OR messenger – look to your own direct experience. Once and for all notice what you truly are and not what you imagine yourself to be. If something doesn’t resonate or jive with your own honest experience, discard it. This is only about reality and honesty.
The direct message is – you are not a person. The “person” appears as objective content – 100%. See if this is not true. You can describe Joe – you can describe every body sensation and every thought. Therefore what you are must be beyond or prior to – as that pure and empty subjective presence.
That presence has no quality other than it is HERE – it is present – and it is AWARE. It is AWARE-NESS – present awareness. THAT is the subjectivity which never changes and never comes and goes.
It cannot be located in space – it has no form or attributes – and it cannot be located in time – it has no beginning or end – it does not arrive with the content or appearance. It cannot be found but it can never ever be denied.
You are that. Just notice and be done with it. There IS no seeker.
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Hey Joe,
Randall and Gilbert are doing a good job answering your questions! I’m not sure how much time I’ll have but …
You ask whether it’s accurate to get into Berkeley by thinking about God or about a car beginning to think it is doing something.
Well, you don’t need either of those approaches for Berkeley. Sure, he used a “God” notion, but this was back in the 18th century. You don’t have to go there. You can interpret his “God” metaphorically as “awareness” as the source. It does pretty much the same job.
Berkeley isn’t useful for the whole range of questions that might occur in nondual inquiry. But he is *excellent* at showing how there can’t be anything objective beyond ideas. More detailed than Atmananda himself on this point.
I myself think that the physical metaphor is important to deconstruct, because it tends to be a controlling model for how people think of themselves. Even when you think of notions like “conscious” versus “subconscious” or “unconscious” mind – you may tend to use physical concepts to distinguish these. As though they occupy spatially different regions “in the mind” or some such. But if physicality is no longer an issue, no longer the way things seem to be, then there is huge and immediate freedom.
If there’s no seemingness of physicality, then there will be no seemingness of containment or being “inside” something. It is easier to see that there can’t possibly be borders to what you are as awareness.
Of course the physicality thing isn’t the whole ball of wax. But looking into it directly can address this very common sticking point.
There are some great online texts for Berkeley. A great modern philosopher, Jonathan Bennett, has “translated” many of the early modern classic texts into contemporary English. Berkeley was already one of the clearest and easiest to read. But in Bennett’s translation, he’s even easier!
Here are the free downloads for Three Dialogs between Hylas and Philonous:
http://www.earlymoderntexts.com/bd.html
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Thanks for this. I’ve noticed parallels between Berkeley and some of the nondual teachings about our assumptions that there’s something “out there” being perceived. It was cool to hear someone addressing them.
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It may be possible for Greg to answer some of these questions.
John Wheeler and Randall took an active part in the comment pages for their own programs. I would encourage anyone to look at Greg’s website, get his book.
The diversity of ‘clear speakers’ on our programs is spreading out a little more recently. We do receive ‘invites’ from some teachers, invites to interview them. Ha. On each occasion, so far, they have not been clear and direct – they all imagine that they are an independent enlightened being, etc. Brief conversations have revealed a self-centered ‘mind’ bound up in many beliefs. One even said straight up that he had taken SERIOUS vows etc. Talked about ‘levels’ and obviously believes he is on some higher level of consciousness. Such deluded ‘individuals’ are a pest, in my opinion, but there is no shortage of them. They all believe that they are pretty damn special.
We cannot offer such examples up to our listeners. The direct and simple message does not need all those added ‘dimensions’ and such imaginary ‘conditions’ only get in the way.
Bob Newhart’s comedy may not be funny for everyone.
We wanted to get Maxwell Smart for an interview but looks like we missed out. “Sorry about that Chief”.
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Maxwell Smart rocks!!!
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The question “where are you seeing from?” The answer “seeing without seeing something.” Our usual presumption is that the seer is present and something appears to the seer. So can you say there is no such thing as seer and seen there is just seeing? What does this seeing look like?
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Where are you seeing from?
Right there in that clear and present, naked cognition, there is no ‘object’ whatsoever – that is why the SEEING is clear and unobstructed. It is EMPTY and because it is empty, it can be filled – and because it is filled, it is emptied – in ONE INSTANT.
NO trace is left. All concepts about being a seeker are overthrown in one moment of clear IN-SEEING.
No one ever has seen an object. Have a close look at an object. What is obvious is ‘light’. Everything is LIGHT.
LIGHT and DARKNESS are not TWO. The conscious and the un-conscious are NOT TWO.
The thought ‘I see’ CANNOT see. The minds translation is nothing but ‘learned’ words and concepts ‘dumped’ upon this Clear Emptiness of Naked Cognition.
So, after seeing the truth of this, then even logically no SEEKING can lead you anywhere away from this clarity.
There is no way out of this present – no path and no stepping – the belief that there is a way to something other than this, is all imaginary nonsense.
Spiritual nonsense spoken by apparent ‘realized teachers’ is very often just psychological nonsense. The ‘story’ they tell is about ‘becoming’.
The fact is that there is NO becoming in BEING. What is true, is simple and it is ever present. What is it that prevents you from knowing that?
It is not a matter of exchanging concepts or fitting a jigsaw puzzle together in your mind. The sum of all the parts is not equal to the WHOLE.
Rearranging the deck chairs of the Titanic, while the band plays “Waltzing Matilda” is not going to do the ‘trick’.
The ‘Clear and direct’ message does not recommend meditation, methods or techniques. The clear and direct message does not compromise the message by adding that ‘some are not ready’ to hear it. The ‘sword of truth’ cuts without mercy. We all know this and all our ‘But’s’ are nothing but excuses, attempts to hang onto some erroneous belief in being a ‘person’ The ‘person’ is NOT reality. There are no two ways about that.
Just because a guru or teacher has many followers does not mean that what he or she is saying is true. It more than likely means that what he or she offers is popular. What the common people are attracted to is not what is TRUE – if that were so, the common people would have transcended all illusions, long ago.
Being popular does not mean that the teacher or guru is clear and direct. In fact, it usually means that they are not clear and direct.
Reality IS – Reality is not ‘arrived at’ by common consensus. Common belief is a projection of mind – the agreement, is a dream.
From where seeing is happening – there is nothing but clear and open cognition.
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Excruciatingly Clear~ Glaringly Obvious…. Unchanging, since the first UGC podcast. Yet This message is missed, Over and Over, seemingly looked Over in preference for the familiar mental dialogue (patterning), which when believed in, seems as solid as steel. Yet, somehow the “looking” subsides and “seeing” is just *seen*. No one left though, to own, claim or “know”. All just seems to dissolve without provocation, reason Or as a “result of” this or that action, or lack thereof.
Repetition of this message seems valuable and these dialogues, helpful.
Who Knows~;)
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The conscious and the unconscious are not two. Conventional psychological suffering and some actions are usually attributed to what is unconscious. So according to non duality this would not be true because what appears as conscious and unconscious is one. Everything would be known. Why are there then two words to describe what is one? Is there truly no distinction between these states?
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The true nature of the mind is clear and empty. The activity of conceptualizing appears to divide that clarity of pure cognition into ‘parts’ by naming and separating ‘objects’ ‘out there’ and ‘in here’.
The distinction between all states is obvious. Sleep is not the waking state. The dream state is not deep sleep.
All states ‘appear’ in Consciousness.
That which we call the unconscious is merely a word for the unknown.
Each so-called ‘moment’ you face the unknown.
No one knows what will happen ‘next’. No one.
Predictions and anticipations are mind stuff.
What will be your next thought?
You have no ‘idea’ what the next thought will be.
For the so-called ‘person’ the unknown appears to ‘become’ the known when it is named or labeled.
The so-called ‘truly realized’ know that they are not a person and the unknown is the ‘knowing’.
No fear of death is a hallmark of those who know what they are. That is not some contrived notion. It is merely noticed that just like ‘time’, ‘death’ is merely a concept appearing and disappearing.
‘People’ SEEM to live in the realms of mind translations and it is an illusion belonging to a fictional character.
The word is not the real.
Belief is not the actuality.
If you do not know what your next thought is going to be – then who is doing the thinking?
Who has any control over anything?
The geometrical display of concepts is merely a pattern – energy appearing as thoughts, ideas, images, memories and ideas.
Where does it all appear?
The discriminating mind cannot know its own source through following thought patterns. if you witness the disappearance of thought – then observe the absence of a witness – then all questions are resolved.
But…..who wants to go there?
It would mean the end of ‘you’ and all ‘your suffering’. Then what would you entertain yourself and your friends with?
One can only laugh at the antics of the mind. The mind must be understood – if not it will be your master and what slave is ever happy?
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The unknown is the ‘knowing’. That’s a bit of a mind bender.
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The mind can never know what is real, only what is appearing to be real. A table appears to be solid but a powerful microscope can prove this to be false. It has been proven that the world is created in mind. It has also been proven that there is no independent self.
We are not a ball of matter located in the skull. What does this mean? That there are body minds appearing to know things.
I spent time with the type of teacher referred to by Greg and Gilbert
He claimed that a sudden and profound event removed the ego and he never again had the sense of being a seprate self.
This is so much simpler than all this mystical bull, you don’t have to wait for IT to happen to “you” … there is a lie that we have belived in, the lie that I am a person…. so we are given pointers… we are asked to have a look for ourselves…
Nothing gets removed, it gets seen to be False and after seeing the false as such the sense of being a separate person naturally falls away. yes .
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Knowing that the observed has no existence
Apart from the observer,
Knowing that the observer has no existence
Apart from the observed,
Divided mind is re-united.
-Wu wee poo
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THAT which has NEVER been divided can never be re-united.
If you wish to re-unite the mind, it will go on forever, because the perception of a divided mind is supported by the effort to re-unite the mind – thus the division simply unfold in ever more subtle ways.
START from the fact that the mind is not divided by concepts or thoughts and the mind is silenced.
The Observer is nothing but thought. The ‘thinker’ is just another thought.
SEEING that removes belief in believing that I am the thinker.
It is seen from beyond the appearance of a ‘thinker’. Therefore one knows that I am not this thought ‘I think’ or whatever its formation appears as.
Why these simple factors are not recognized immediately by the ‘reader’ is quite perplexing – but it is of no concern here.
Some of the clearest pointing appears on this site in hundreds of expressions. What is actually obvious is missed by the intellectualizing and the conceptualizing mind. Are you not tired from it all?
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“Some of the clearest pointing appears on this site in hundreds of expressions. What is actually obvious is missed by the intellectualizing and the conceptualizing mind. Are you not tired from it all?”
Are you kidding? Bored to tears……. and yet
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Don’t miss Greg’s comments – they appear further back up the page.
So, pose some questions for Greg and we may see some responses, when he has time. Welcome aboard Greg.
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Gilbert, as a continuation from our last little discussion – when I said “being resists categorization”, I didn’t mean that being did or didn’t do anything, just that it’s impossible to describe. There can be attempts made but “the Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao”.
In this experience, there has been a tendency to cling on to linguistic structures and think “this is it”, but, of course, the words are never “it” and can’t appear without “it”. Thought is binary – yes/no, either/or, up/down, good/bad, etc but these are only arbitrary labels put on appearances as if they could be divided from the whole.
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The mind is an imposter. Nothing from there is clear or free.
Whatever your heart tells you, is also mind.
And this defensive stance I begin to see, the same.
We are the same one who began this
But we do not know that we know.
There is no knower, only knowing pretending there is,
six billion different ways.
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We make sounds and draw squiggles on paper and believe that these ‘things’ are meaningful. But in taking a closer look, there is no separation, no membrane between ‘the appearance of sound or anything in the manifestation’ and the ‘source’ of all these appearances.
One is ALL and even ‘one’ is truly ‘not even one’.
Indescribable.
The mind is silenced – and the ‘me’ cannot live without the energy of belief.
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Can water ever go downhill the wrong way?
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Thanks for popping into the thread Greg. Have been a fan of Atmananda for some time and pick up Notes of Spiritual Discourse regularly.
I refer to Atmananda’s teaching on ‘memory is a false witness’ frequently.
On your site you explained a sticking point for yourself and how his book Atmana Darshan cleared that for you
“There is never any proof that a thought other than this thought ever arose.”
WOW…I can’t squirm out of that one
Thanks
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Dogribb, yes that’s right. For a few years, I was wondering why there was the slight impression of a gap between subject and object. And a subtle multiplicity among thoughts. Both those were very gentle dualities. Even sweet. Witnessing awareness was the sweetest “place” I had ever been, as places go. I was “there” for about 3 years. In fact Atmananda says that this is enough… It is already devoid of identification and entitification. He says it’s enough to liberate one from the cycle of birth and death (he spoke frequently in traditional Advaitic terms).
But I was curious and drawn by this sweetness to inquire further. There was no agenda or goal, I was just diving into this investigation as the sweetest thing in life. I wanted to know…. So when I saw that no thought other than the current thought could possibly be established, well that got rid of time and multiplicity. But it did more. If there couldn’t be two or more thoughts, then there couldn’t even be ONE! Where there’s one, there is the possibility of two. So if there can’t be two, then “thought” isn’t the kind of thing that is possible to give number to in the first place. So it isn’t even thought in the first place!
At that point, the notion of even *one* thought became joyfully incoherent, and the entire structure of the witness with its coming-and-going arisings simply vanished. The witness itself collapsed and what was present, as presence, was timeless presence, pure consciousness. As sweet as the witness was, it was incomparable with this. I was tongue-tied for almost a year, and almost had to learn to talk all over about this stuff!
Too bad Atmananda’s books are so hard to find. The publisher and their attorneys are on the lookout on the internet for the PDF files and they do google searches for folks mentioning ATMA DARSHAN and ATMA NIRVRITI. The publishers and their lawyers have been known to write to people and give cease-and-desist and take down orders with the threat of expensive legal action. You can’t even quote a few lines from the books. As far as I’ve known, they have threatened people in India, the U.S. and the U.K.
But I hear they might re-publish these two great works!
–Greg
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What do you mean by ‘the coming and going arisings simply vanished’?
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Greg may answer this. However, I will give my ‘version’ if I may.
What you truly are does not come or go. The sense of coming and going is the ‘mind content’ because that is the nature of thoughts – they come, they go. The ‘idea’ of ‘me’ comes and goes. Because the ‘me’ is not thoroughly investigated, it is believed to be real. The instant it is seen through, the sense of coming and going vanishes. You KNOW what you are. This kind of information cannot make much sense to the ‘believer’ of a ‘me being the center’ of all activities.
Ironically all ‘pointers’ only make sense once the recognition has ‘taken place’. Otherwise there is a paradoxical element to all pointers – because of biased beliefs.
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Greg may answer this. Since he has not done so as yet, I will give my ‘version’, if I may.
What you truly are does not come or go. The sense of coming and going is the ‘mind content’ because that is the nature of thoughts – they come, they go. The ‘idea’ of ‘me’ comes and goes. Because the ‘me’ is not thoroughly investigated, it is believed to be real. The instant it is seen through, the sense of coming and going vanishes. You KNOW what you are. This kind of information cannot make much sense to the ‘believer’ of a ‘me being the center’ of all activities.
Ironically all ‘pointers’ only make sense once the recognition has ‘taken place’. Otherwise there is a paradoxical element to all pointers – because of biased beliefs.
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Excellent show. One of the best in ages from this perspective here. Another great resource…. Having trouble locating a copy of Atma Darshan however – it seems the pdf is hard to come by these days (some copyright issues) and the printed book also. Any tips from anyone?
Ed: The book is out of print. The free PDF was retracted due to copyright issues. I hear on the grapevine that the book will be re-published. Please do not use the UGC as a Postal Exchange for such things. Respect this FREE site for what it is. Maybe make a donation for what is already abundantly available. A treasure trove of direct pointing – free from the biased nonsense of so many sites.
Try a second hand bookshop but you will be lucky to find one – but you may just be lucky, who knows.
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I have the book, I got it along time ago. Started reading it again, it is quite clear. Some mind-blowing stuff like ‘sounds ARE the hearing’. Where does that leave a me?
ED: Note for readers – The book is no longer available and I believe it is going to be re-published.
There are issues over the free PDF and you will find it is not available when you try to find it. It has been withdrawn from offer due to copyright issues. The UGC cannot be a place where exchanges of that sort of file take place. If we start doing that, there will be no end to it.
Please refrain from these sort of things ‘here’. If you, anyone, have an issue over this, please write to me and I will discuss it with you further. – Gilbert.
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If by reading on anything in this page, you are trying to figure out something, just forget it. There is nothing to comprehend here.
Just know that all these words are noticed, you are aware of your own little voice in your head reading these words, that’s all you need to see.
The listener is not something you can be aware of, it is the Subject aware of objects inside and outside the body and the objects are made of the Subject, they are not separate.
Don’t fatigue yourself in trying to understand the Mystery, allow your mind to relax, it does not have to carry all these problems…
The mind is tired too, just thank it for trying to help and relax into the not-knowing and be ok with that.
Doubt, confusion, habit and so on will arise, welcome them, they just want to be with you, they will not disturb you if you welcome them. That’s all.
What you are is the one who hears these words, you don’t need to find it, you are already it, you can reassure yourself by noticing that you are here aware of every thoughts, sensations, emotions, state and experience.
You are Love welcoming everything as yourself.
I don’t give a monkey about how I am using words, that’s clear that they are all objects in Awareness, so since you understand that the content don’t have so much importance for you to notice the listener, then you can play with them without worry.
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All prescriptions are valid in the appearance.
There is no problem.
Discovering that is what this is all about.
Many prescribe all kinds of things to do, to see or to notice.
There is no entity that can see, do or change ‘what is’.
The simplicity of being, free from the concepts of ‘becoming’ is already present.
Whatever appears on that is appearing without boundaries or distinctions.
Whatever the mind ‘does’ with any information, it can only be a derivative, a fragmentation, a reflection of oneness.
The sum of all the parts is not equal to the WHOLE.
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Another classic , over here the mind spent years in playing the thick ass one, wait a minute, not playing, i am the thick ass one, trying to figure out these dam spiritual words like consciousness , i was like what the hell is consciousness man, reading ancient texts and Indian style spiritual books can really screw you up. what’s being noticed now, is the simplicity of this, this simple being here-ness – it is that that is noticed when the attention comes off thought and onto ‘here now’, a peace is felt, doubts still arise often – the me still bounds in crapping in the middle of the floor a- s some grey wiskered oldish aussie man once said (to me) and that is a pain in the ass especially when you’ve just had new carpets laid – or your in the super market on the busiest day of the week. Expecting something to happen still pops up or the thought this is completely doing my fxxking head in, will arise and then another ‘notice’ happens, noticing of ‘just being here’ and then a me trying to ‘see’ that there is no me seeing, what a crazy life x
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It is so simple we miss it.
I would venture to say that the message is very short.
Something ‘should’ grab in the first few minutes of hearing someone speak about so-called Non Duality.
Something grabs you. A silent ‘Yes’ happens.
Actually the absolute simplicity of a simple recognition is all that is necessary.
That is so true and it makes a mockery of all these long winded citations and explanations.
It makes a mockery of teachers and gurus.
The thing is, you are already THAT. You always were.
If you are in the company of some fancy Guru when this recognition happens, you will probably be like a chick hatching from an eggshell in the company of a snake. The snake will lead you on down a long track telling you that there are all kinds of conditions to this ‘awakening’ and that you MUST do this and you must do that.
It is all CRAP and the Snake is going to ‘eat you’ – consume you, because he needs to be sustained. A snake with a whole bunch of chicks hanging around is never hungry.
Well, we all love a story and the story is complexity.
See how easy it is to slide away into endless details.
The recognition of ‘Yes’ …..’I am’ is so simple and there isn’t much ‘more’ one needs to know.
Some old gray haired Aussie is a ‘good story spinner’ and keeps many entertained – however the direct pointing is always ‘in’ the story or should I say the ‘pointing’ is always in the story.
The subtle ‘yes’ that resonates in being is all that we need.
Stay with that.
Return to that simplicity – the resonance of being.
The rest is conceptual baffle.
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You are HERE and AWARE.
No matter what the experience has been, good or bad, right or wrong, up or down – any relative experience – the absolute reality has been that certainty of always-here-always-aware-ness.
This isn’t something that needs to be located, found, arrived at, achieved, realized or experienced. This is simple, obvious and easily verified. In fact it cannot be doubted or negated.
That always-here, always-aware-ness is taken AS something which it is not. It is taken AS an individual self, a person which came into being and will eventually cease to be. It is this idea or concept, this projection or imagination about what that certainty of always-here-always-aware-ness IS, which is the only confusion.
It’s taken as ME – the individual. So don’t try to discard the ME or make the ME fall away. Only notice that this ME or “I” isn’t what it seems, what it has been assumed to be, what it is believed to be.
Because it is entirely belief/assumption in which this “I” is bound. It is the idea of the individual “I” which is itself the only bondage. It is taking what you are AS THIS as opposed to THAT, which is the definition of limitation.
Notice that you are always here – something remains still and unmoved while experiences come and go – thoughts come and go – sensations called “body” come and go. Yet there is “something” present, right now – you have always known it – something that is simply present and aware, knowing, noticing. It cannot be described. It cannot be grasped. Yet it cannot EVER be denied.
It isn’t missing. It isn’t hidden. It isn’t difficult, in fact it is already inescapable. It is your own Self, the one Self, the impersonal Self.
Discover the immediacy and intimacy of this Self. Then it will also be discovered, naturally, that there is nothing other that that Self. It is the very act of describing it which seems to divide. That is only conceptual division, not actual division. Self and World are not-two. They are two ONLY in the measurement, translation or description.
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Amen to that Randall this is the gorgeous thing about this stuff, so simple. yet the me tries so hard to get this for itself that’s what’s been happening for me anyway, especially when dark feelings are about, then the habit is to respond to them, that this isn’t right, this feels like shit man, I’ve got to escape from this. It seems for me the dark feelings empower the search to get rid of them. There’s a grasping for the current book i’m reading or legging it up stairs to read the comments page, still there’s times in the day when this simple thoughtless here is tasted. although the thoughts soon flow through again or feelings rush in.
have a beauty x
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Jacob,
Attributing the trying hard, dark feelings, habits, the need to escape, the empowerment, the grasping, and the tasting – to an individual – is the only bondage.
Right now, without the next attempt at finding anything or achieving or getting, you are present, yet you cannot find your presence among any of these things. How do you know you are present? How do you know that you ARE?
Because knowing is happening. Plain and simple.
You are that perfection, already. The first step in seeking it is already one step too far. You are already home.
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It sure look like pushing goo up hill with a blunt stick.
Seekers ‘appear’ to be so full of erroneous beliefs, it seems it is virtually impossible to cut through all the crap they believe in.
Making an issue of this is also useless. Frustration is the common ‘result’ – “why can’t I see it?”
Once more: The ‘I’ in the minds translation “I see” cannot see at all.
It is a concept.
Added to that ‘I’ is a story of ‘me’ and the belief in that ‘character’ is the obstacle. ‘You’ as a believed in ‘self-center’ cannot ‘do’ anything about anything.
Stop chasing rainbows…..SEE that the pot of gold can never be found – it is an image only.
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Awareness is Self-Aware…..Self-Shining.
“People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within.”
— Elizabeth Kübler-Ross
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Wow, that quote is beautiful.
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In attempting to negate the ‘me’ as located inside the head, there is this loop that points back to the brain location, behind the face.
It goes something like “I can see that I am not the body or brain, but I don’t understand”.
It keeps looping back to a self center.
There is still a belief that the brain is somehow ‘aware’ and therefore the ‘joe’.
I can’t ignore this belief any longer and just say “Yeah, I’m not located in the body”- I need to address this.
Any comments are appreciated.
Thank You.
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Thanks to those who’s pointing is a laser beam to the obvious~
Seems that there is More and More and MORE “ways” of pointing to This~
It’s like adding More and More sticks of dynamite to the bundle, which, sometimes just Blows up in your face, revealing That which always Was – IS.
- Peace In ~
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“ONE without a second” is probably THE pointer.
Because if there is only ONE, and this ONE necessarily has no limits, no boundaries, then there is no ‘me’, no ‘you’, no ‘things’, no ‘others’, no ‘there’, no ‘then’, no ‘ignorance’, no ‘wisdom’, no ‘enlightenment’, no ‘path’, no ‘happenings’…
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We like to attribute causes. Like a tooth ache. We see the problem and fix it. Sitting around saying there is no tooth wouldn’t work. When we feel anything we say I am feeling this way because…So there is no cause, nothing to grasp onto and say this is the reason and I can change that reason. Do we literally just go with the flow, not looking for causes? Personally I could give a rats ass about causes, but when there is an ache (or unease) there is nothing to attribute it to…it just is? This is it?
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+5
Joe,
You say you have read so many books on this subject, but would you be willing to read just one more?– A tiny little booklet that, I think, might help immensely. It is a free PDF and you can download it at the William Samuel website. Go to the book title page and scroll to the bottom. You will find the free download there; its title 2+2=Reality. It is like a ‘basic primer’ to understanding “non-duality” written in a ‘style’ that I doubt will be like anything you have read before. Take a chance on this, and don’t make any judgements until you read it all the way through. Keep in mind, this was first written in 1958,and is written with a sort of Southern syle, appropriate for those days. The message still holds up Now and remains valid Today. I have mentioned it here before, but I suspect you have not read it, because, I think, if you had, you would no longer have to be struggling with these ‘pointers’. Now, remember, when you begin to read it, it is not going to start out like you would ‘pre-judge’ a book on “non-duality” to start—but, keep going, this is a remarkable book and I think you will ‘finally’ find some peace with all this, because of the simple, honest, brilliance in this booklet. So, let’s see how it goes—and also, do keep in mind, even if you don’t ‘get it’, that makes no difference to anything at all, not really.
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Awareness is awareness is awareness. One does not develop awareness. No technique is required to be the knower. You are naturally present and aware of all that comes and goes. That is the natural condition, not a state or attainment. The conditioned mind wants a path or practice. Where are you going to go when you are that? What are you going to practice when you already are what you are seeking? And who is going to do all that when there is no separate person to do any such thing? So – full stop. If you find yourself jumping back into the mind looking for more work to do, then have a good look at the mind and understand how it works. See that all such thoughts are based on an assumed separation from source. That assumption drives us back into the mind until this mechanism is seen clearly. Is the basic assumption that you are separate true? Who, what and where is this separate ‘I’ entity? The key is to see that all self-centered concepts relate to this central concept. Thoroughly examine the reality of this concept. Without the belief in the separate ‘me’, the thoughts, even if they arise, do not apply to anyone, especially to you. Interest in the mind dissolves because such interest is referring to a non-existent entity that you no longer believe in.
~John Wheeler
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Yes ‘One without a Second’ is the briefest pointer.
Where are you seeing from? is a direct question.
More accurate is Where is the seeing taking place?
Drop all thoughts and concepts and SEE.
You must be this One without a second.
It is only a thought, a belief that suggests otherwise.
And a thought or belief has no substance whatsoever.
- That’s it.
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+7
Answer to Joe’s question above…
Joe,
If there is a believe that awareness is located in the brain, try this exercise.
Take your hands – touch your forehead with your fingers. Notice the relationship of that sensation in awareness.
Now move the fingers around to the side of the head. Notice the relationship of that sensation in awareness.
Now move the fingers slowly around to the back of the head. Do the fingers circle awareness? Do the fingers describe a path around a bound awareness? Do the fingers move from the front of awareness to the back of awareness? Or are all the sensations IN awareness? Can you actually find a location for that which is knowing these sensations?
This exercise might shock the Hell out of you. Awareness is, in direct experience, NOT contained to the head.
Be honest with it and give it a try. Do it a few times – the fingers aren’t actually circumscribing awareness. So where is awareness located? It is BEYOND all experience.
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There are (apparently) just two ‘things’:
– what we call ‘me’ (sensation, feeling, thought, concept, image), and
– what we call ‘world’ (perception, thought, concept, image).
Now, are sensations, feelings, thoughts, perceptions, concepts, images, separate from awareness OF sensations, feelings, thoughts, perceptions, concepts, images?
No!… Sensations, feelings, thoughts, perceptions, concepts, images ARE awareness AS sensations, feelings, thoughts etc…
They are the SAME. The separation is only CONCEPTUAL.
(SEE the sentence “Sounds are the hearing” under this light.)
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+5
This reminded me of an old Zen story.
The master and a monk are walking in the mountains, high up, on a beautiful day. They walk in silence for many miles then the monk says to the master “I have been with you for twenty years and I just don’t
‘get it’. I have tried every way and I have diligently applied all the practices but I just don’t get it”. The master stops walking and says “Sit down here on the grass and rest awhile”. They sit for awhile and then lay down looking up at the passing clouds. The master then says “Do you hear that dog barking?” “Yes, I hear the dog” says the monk.
“Do you hear the bell ringing” asks the master.
“Yes, I hear the bell ringing” says the monk.
“That is it” says the master.
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TeeHee~ YES~Ness~
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Non-duality is so simple and natural, that a ‘new born’ can understand it without understanding it.
There is no partiality to this understanding. It forever remains whole and indivisible.
No stages or parts to understand and integrate. It could be said that it is part-less (path-less).
You are IT, except there is no separate ‘you’ to be IT.
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Hi there folks
, i could give lectures in University about Advaita/Zen/Buddhism. That’s the story and now there is a reason for this comment. I intellectually understand all this stuff, i see that that’s not it, i can see my mind is trying to catch it again and again. There are some new books in my virtual bookshelf and i wonder if the message is so simple i don’t need more books, i don’t need more readings, that is hopeless.
For last couple of years i’ve read so many spiritual books, heard so many boadcasts/podcasts and watched hours of videos in the internet. Yeah, i can tell you, i am a very expert of eastern philosophies
I think, there is no way out, it happens on its own or not… and yes it’s only point of view.
How something like that: “One without the second” could point to this nonduality, it means nothing. I can only recall that ‘in’ samadhi state “it looks” like there is only one without the second but it is only past memory.
and i think i will read some new books soon
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Ekhmm~
Book are fine, as are podcasts, videos… you name it~
Trying to Stop THIS, by quitting Anything is just another way for the mind/machine to usurp what is being “Seen” right Now~
Randall sent me an email in Sept.08, which summed it up:
Mark,
Good to see the mind is throwing itself in a ditch, gaining some understanding only to have it ripped out by the throat, left bare and naked, circling in an ever-tightening noose that is both inescapable and infinitely non-existent.
The mind continues down this path of compulsive analytical masturbation until it totally runs head-first into the brick wall, so hard that it’s left bleeding and convulsing, gasping for life support, left totally without any word to save it, left completely without any direction to go for help.
When that mental heartbeat weakens in exhaustion and self-inflicted battering, when that continuous stream of absolute and total self-referencing runs out of steam, there is simply a giant exhale, a release of the string pulled so tight it might snap in two. A resting in pure effortless seeing and knowing, a witnessing of the sensations that make up this illusion of body and mind and world, a confusion as to the reality of this that seemed so clearly understood with concepts.
The only “thing” that can BE is that seeing/knowing, against and within which these “sensations” come and go, not separate from the pure nonconceptual IS-NESS, a simple blade of grass, a slight cool breeze against the face, the sound of pitter-patter of tiny feet. THIS is the miracle, the mysterious nothingness which manifests as everythingness, the “secret” which is completely and totally and ABSOLUTELY staring you in the face.
Only “face” can never be found, only appears as a conceptualized idea of more sensation – no boundary can be located, no center or circumference can be found, no beginning or end can EVER EVER appear.
Seeing/knowing is happening – before during and after any concept which appears, before during and after any idea of a “mark” who wants to understand, a “mark” who seeks or finds or laughs or cries, a “mark” who sees or doesn’t see, gets “enlightenment” or falls miserably into the abyss of total ignorance.
At the end of this fictional story, the book is laid aside, a deep breath is taken, a sip of tea, resting against the soft pillow of now. The story remains only as a memory, a faint picture of “mark”, not worth the distraction from the bittersweet taste of tea, not worth the illusory effort required to maintain the drama.
All that remains is the seeing/knowing/being, the space in which these characters dance on the stage, the emptiness which overflows with sound and fury, the YOU which was before the big bang, the YOU which was never ever, for the smallest fraction of a moment, EVER involved in the world.
Gratitude for this message~ ***
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Ekhmm, you said it: “The message is so simple I don’t need more books.” Who is aware? If you say “me”, who exactly is this me? All things are registered but not by the self image, bodily appearance or thought. These are all perceptions. What do they arise in? How is a book, or anything else for that matter, known? It is this capacity of knowing, that underlies all experience, that is being pointed at on this website. There is nothing apart from, outside of THIS. You are that.
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The following quote from William Samuel says a little more on this subject of books and study and forums, and says it quite nicely:
Teachers, books, leaders, philosophies,religions, theories, bibles and holy books of the world may be likened to leaves on a tree. When the wind blows, the leaves make sounds-some loud, some soft, some high, some low. The pine needle that makes a strong sound, like a tuning fork, sets those of the same note into sympathetic vibration. This is as it should be, but surely it must be understood: the Value isn’t in the leaf, the pine needle, or the sound they make. The importance isn’t in how many kindred images vibrate in sympathy, in how many agree or disagree. The task is not to find the sweetest sound or the softest sound; neither to find the truest sound, the “authorized” sound, nor the “most absolute” sound. The task-if it is a task at all-is to recognize one’s own identity to be-TO BE-all there is to the tree, the leaves, the sounds and even to the gentle wind that moves them!
The value isn’t in the religion, the holy book, the leader, the authorized literature, teacher, philosophy or system, not in the images within Awareness or in their beliefs as countless as the needles on the pine. No! The Value Supernal is “in” That which is being the Awareness I am (and you are. Reader)-perceiving the religions, holy books, leaders, teachers, philosophies and systems within Itself.
The eternal Isness being this one I call me, (and all other images) is being the entire tree, every leaf and every zephyr that animates them. It is downright silly to admire or disparage one of the leaves-a single image of the Self-as being the only authorized leader, the straightest line, the least or the most absolute statement, system or approach.
We enjoy the sounds of many leaves. We do not close the door or turn a deaf ear toward others. We will continue to read books, give and listen to lectures and discuss ideas as long as it comes to us to do these things. But we know the value isn’t there. The importance isn’t the book, lecture or speaker-even those authorized by the board of directors or the high priests at the temple. We maintain an unshakable equanimity in the knowledge that Eternal Allness being the Identity-I-am is the Value. We joy in the simplicity of Allness’s all! (William Samuel–The Awareness of Self-Discovery)
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Sandy, I’m really enjoying your comments. I think Mr Samuel has found himself a worthy successor.
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The Totality IS. Nothing can be added to THAT, nor can anything be taken away from THAT.
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Remember this, only a handful of people will wish to listen to anyone who is pointing directly. New York has a population of maybe 20 million but Greg’s Diner Dinner meetings only have a few attending. Here in Melbourne there are approximately 3.5 million and a mere handful of folks turn up to listen to Bob Adamson, who by the way, is probably one of the clearest speakers on this subject, in my opinion. New beliefs are not required. Nothing is asked of the seeker, except to look into their own direct and immediate ‘consciousness’, beyond all belief, and recognize what has always been obvious.
The majority appear to be happy to continue with the turbulence of believing in a ‘me’, and so, hang onto all the trouble that that belief ’causes’. What strange creatures we appear to be.
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paul hed says something like “most people want to want to be free”.
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This statement is great.
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Most seeming sheeple can only entertain that they’re a Lion~ Paul H.
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«The Totality IS. Nothing can be added to THAT, nor can anything be taken away from THAT.» (Gilbert Schultz)
There is no ‘outside’ from where you can add anything to (nor take away from) the Totality.
How can ‘you’ add to, or take away from the Totality, the IS-ness of everything?
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Piersede, Child Light,
Thanks so much for those words of appreciation. I certainly do not have the gift of communication that William had, but I am most grateful for the Light and genuine Peace he led me to find. There are many ways of ‘teaching’ these ideas of non-duality—It appears that some of us come to a clear Understanding via the Heart and some via what looks like a more logical, direct, and Intellectual route.
For me, it is the Heart that found the way,and It is Grace that leads me.
William was very gifted, he was brilliant, but he found a way to speak to the Heart with words that seem to ‘ring a bell’ with poetic cadence and almost lyrical, musical tones. He spoke of this gift that he discovered that came along with his own illumination. He says he is creating ‘overtones’—he fashions his words so that we can hear the overtones, he stings them just right. Reading or hearing him is something like listening to symphony, one feels the Whole Musical and is moved by That, touched by That Sound–its not so much about picking out each of the certain notes that create the Music.
Greg Goode, the guest speaker here, was one of the first people, several years ago, who had discovered William after I was given this ‘trust’. Greg was like an angel, he was really lovely and he encouraged me to continue to do what I do with William’s work. I will always appreciate his kindness and respect for me. Greg, like Gilbert knew that William was one of those rare jewels among the genuine Honest teachers, though William’s approach is quite different than some of you are accustomed to, it is pretty clear that he had found this Living Truth and never veered from That Honesty and Wisdom.
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Buddhist will say the number of people that realize their opportunity to get it, relative to the world’s population, are comparable to a pile of sand in the hand. This is a tactic to motivate people to ‘practice’ because, it’s taught, this life is a limited time offer and therefore special. So what is your point Gilbert when you talk about how few people are motivated get it? Are you just blowing off steam or is that information relevant in some way?
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I have no interest in what Buddhists say. What we are talking about is Non Duality. The one reading these comments is the only one. So long as there is belief in there being ‘others’ then it appears that only a few ‘get it’.
Whatever turns that belief around so that it is seen for what it is is totally valid.
It appears that most simply hang onto second hand information and call that Knowledge. It binds the mind into a state of delusion. Anything that shakes up that ‘container’ will disturb the fabric of the container and the container is nothing but belief.
Belief is not the actual.
It is all appearance. You have nothing but appearances to guide you, so it seems. Everything, every thing is an appearance, whether it be a concept or an object and the appearance includes the ‘subject’. It all appears in the SEEING.
The apparent ‘problem’ is that what you truly are doesn’t need any guidance, non whatsoever.
You are already THAT. There is no ‘doer’ – there is only the appearance of a ‘doer’ – SO, let the apparent ‘doer’ lead you back to THAT, then the apparent nature of things is known to be appearances only.
It is all in the mind and clear and present awareness is not confined to any mind. The body appears in the mind and the mind appears in awareness.
Where are you? Truly?
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Guys,
I am posting here for the first time.
I am writing to first of all thank all you guys for maintaining and contributing to the site. This sure is the ‘go to’ site for me – probably the most authentic, clear and direct pointing that one (pun intended
)can find on the web. Its great to find that the “authenticity policing” by Gilbert, Randall, John Wheeler, etc. act as equivalent of training wheels in making sure those (of course there is no one) who are yet to find a balance (of course there is no such thing!) are gently or firmly put back on the pathless path. Or probably more appropriate to say there is thorough cleansing of the clouds that appear to mask the sun.
Secondly, “I am using this forum to declare the search over here and now. Enough of waiting for an experience or waiting to understand all that is said and written in supposed holy texts or try to match the experiences of supposed self-realised beings. What a lot of bull! That is probably the most active program running here keeping the sense of a separate me alive for last so many years. Enough of that.
Not that it makes one iota of difference whether there is a declaration of “search over” or not. All appearances anyway. Nevertheless, that’s what is being posted. Enough said.
Thanks
Cos
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“Who” is the *search* over for? – and was any~thing “found”?
(Ed: If so – by whom?)
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Is there even a search~? Hmmmm*
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«There are an infinite number of ways to describe the situation that we find ourselves in – this applies to anyone, anywhere, at any moment in space and time.
Now, let me suggest a radical leap of mind, body and faith ‘into’ the TIME-less NOW. No distance from HERE and no TIME other than THIS moment right NOW.
I suggest that this very moment contains, ever so spontaneously, the ultimate description in space and time.
This expression is an ephemeral notion of the ultimate form that is truly formless.
It is right in front of your eyes – right here, right now.
In the space of knowing that each one of us is, it appears immediately, yet no one sees its profoundness.
This ultimate and immediate description is THIS actuality, it is not a facsimile.
It is this actualized awareness of right now!
It is totally unlimited – whether there is a corporal knowing of it or not.
There is no ‘present’ other than this ephemeral situation of presence – now, as it always is.»
(Gilbert Schultz, Short extract from “Everything Is Clear and Obvious” out of print – free e-book version (2/3rds) still available on his website)
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+1
‘When a belief of separation is focused upon it tends to be strengthened.’ Rodney Stevens
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It seems to me there are two schools of thought in all this. There are those that suggest everything is illusion, and that nothing ever happened because who would it have happened to. And then are the others that see the manifestation of individuality as a natural functioning of the oneness. Can it really be said that complete identification with the one consciousness is the ‘natural state’? Or could it be said that both pure consciousness and individuality are two ends of the same scale, both of which make up the human experience… I don’t have an opinion on this, but am curious as to what others think?
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It really couldn’t be any other way than WHAT IT IS.
How can you tell between imagination and reality?
How can you know that what you call reality is just not a more subtle imagination?
There is no answer in the mind.
The Two Schools of thought are packed with ‘students and tutors’, all avid ‘thinkers’ – each thinker is nothing but a thought…a concept.
What is wrong with right now, if you do not think about it (now)?
Some believe that they are beyond it all and are avid students of the ‘Not Two School of Thought’.
There is no problem. Why create a problem?
One without a second – NOT TWO.
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There is Only *One*~
It… Is Happening Through… these Thoughts~
Frum 1 thought 2 another~
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Next up we talk to another Doctor. NO prescriptions.
Everything is clear and obvious just as it is.
In my ‘spare time’ I will pull the new program into good shape and publish it, in a day or two. Warm regards – Gilbert.
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+3
Just starting to feel another hit would be good!!
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piersede,
For me, I found The Third Place, it rises above those two ‘schools of thought’ and even ‘all schools of thought’— I call this Third Place the Holy Trinity– All Inclusive All and Only, Single, Alone, One and yet It is the Three that are This ONE, but not just the two or three–It is Above those two and it makes three and eliminates nothing–This Third Place includes them both, but is neither—Its Here and Now, but not recognized until one decides there is more to be found. Oh, do I know this does not sound ‘absolute’ or ‘non-duality’?—You bet I know– But I say it anyway–
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There is a PDF on Tony Parson’s website called “the dream of separation”, it’s very clear.
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0
Wanted to get sum feedback on this piece I just read..
John Welwood talks about spiritual bypassing, “using spiritual ideas or practices to avoid or prematurely transcend relative human needs, feelings, personal issues, and developmental tasks.” This bypassing manifests in what Welwood calls “advaita speak”, where “advaita” is the Sanskrit word for “nonduality”, a state ascribed to God, Brahman, or the Absolute alone. This superior state cannot be reached by reason or relativity.
But if nonduality does not honor duality, it becomes sterile and disconnected. It becomes “a one-sided transcendentalism that uses nondual terms and ideas to bypass the challenging work of personal transformation. Advaita-speak can be very tricky, for it uses absolute truth to disparage relative truth, emptiness to devalue form, and oneness to belittle individuality”. In other words, it engenders escapism. –A.Holocek
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No matter how subtle or no matter how profound the concepts are and no matter how sharp the affirmation (or denial) appears to be it is nothing but an appearance.
Phenomena as ‘form’ cannot make the leap back into the ‘source’ of its own arising.
No metaphor will satisfy the mind.
We can all quote our favorite teacher or text and it is nothing but
‘appearance’.
Everything is included in what you are. ARE – not ‘was’ or ‘will be’. ARE.
No equation necessary. There is no trinity.
Awareness has NEVER been divided. You are that undivided presence. Simple.
The simplest expression is ‘One – without a second’.
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Hey Mark,
Your John Welwood quotes are perfectly said. I don’t know who he is, but that is a beautiful confirmation of what I too have discovered. Yes, it is all about coming back into the world of duality, once again, this time completely free and embracing every bit of Life in Its Marvelous Totality of Light. You just can’t have one without the other–and the best part is when you find the Balance that bridges them both, but is bigger and better and beyond either. Thanks so much for sharing that.
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Thanx G~
It’s Just That Simple, Huh~?
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So to boil it all down:
Everything that is perceived is an appearance
There is no past whatsoever
There will be no future
There is only that which is,
that which is perceiving
as is
now
no need to seek or struggle
for there is nothing to seek or struggle about
the seeking and the struggling
are perceptions of appearances
nothing more
nothing less
as is
now
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Whatever IS, IS. Whatever is NOT will NEVER be.
If seeking is appearing, there is nothing to do about it.
In truly looking into that ‘seeking’ the ‘seeker’ evaporates IN the very (non) thing that was (apparently) being sort.
As one saint said: What you are looking for, is looking.
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New Program about to Splash Down. Stand back.
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It needs to be pointed out frequently that there is no answer in the mind. If you get an ‘intellectual gasp’ on this ‘subject’ and miss the essential nature of ordinary awareness, it is likely to drive you bonkers. I see it quite often. ‘Seeker’s work themselves up into a ‘lather’ and end up protecting nothing but new beliefs about ‘their understanding’. What is being pointed to is similar to open space.
There is nothing to get and nothing to hang onto. If you think you ‘got it’ then you have missed it, completely.
The irony of it all is that you cannot not be what you seek – everyone is THAT.
The nature of these programs tends to make things sound ‘bigger’ than what they are. But the message is there, plain and simple.
I am sure that the next program will certainly give a fresh opportunity to recognize this.
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