Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
79. No one Talking – UG
Posted on 04.23.10 9:33PM under UG Krishnamurti
“What I say is not born out of my thinking”
Listen with an open mind and allow the ‘pointers’ and the beautiful music to expand this conscious presence.
For anyone who knew UG this program may be very moving. Not only for them.
One of many w/sites on UG click HERE
Exquisite Music by Vassilis Tsabropoulos, Anja Lechner and U.T. Gandhi. Composers Tsabropoulos and G.I. Gurdjieff on last piece.
Piano and Cello feature. The CD titles are “The Promise” and “Melos”. Highly recommended.
The UGC is a FREE podcast.
We will continue to bring you clear programs, despite the world’s apparent indifference.
An article by Leo Hartong HERE Sound Wizard provides the best designs for…….well, have a look
Posted by Joe Cap on 04.23.10 11:59 pm
Nothing like driving to work on a sunny Friday morning listening to a fresh UGC podcast. Perfect music too.
Then suddenly I’m buckled over the steering wheel with nausea as a mega dose of zinc hits an empty stomach!
But you are right and it is absolutely true that through all of the good and bad and happy and stomach pain, there was watching. This looking was just there same as it was a few hours earlier in a dream and the same as it always was.
So I don’t know what the heck I am waiting for a future ‘awakening’ for!
Posted by piersede on 04.24.10 2:57 am
Excellent. I got two thirds of the way through before the ‘no one talking’ hit home. Broad smiling and eyes filled with tears.
Another good one, thanks be.
Posted by su on 04.24.10 5:56 am
Mein God Gilbert,
That was pure wisdom.
Bird calls, cello,
almost no words.
Beautiful beyond description.
Thanking you
Posted by michael on 04.24.10 9:29 am
Thanks Gilbert, – that was great.
Posted by Marker on 04.24.10 9:26 pm
THAT was truly captivating. Words- Music -Exquisite, Gilbert
(Ed: Had to remove the link – didn’t work anyway. We try to keep links off the comment pages and focus on what the program is pointing to – if everyone starts sharing their internet surfing experiences will will be taken over completely – no offense intended )
Posted by gilbert on 04.24.10 9:42 pm
Yes, it is a good program with lots of feeling to it. The feeling is not in the program just as the knowing is not in the pattern that appears as a ‘form’. The form knows nothing. The livingness that animates everything is the same essence as the ‘knowing’.
This audio file will be updated with a slight change to it, so if you are going to listen to it again, download the file again ‘tomorrow’.
The last piece of music is a composition by G. I. Gurdjieff, who composed some of the most beautiful music I know of. The CD ‘Melos’ contains several pieces of Gurdjieff’s music. He is little known in the music scene because he was a kind of mystic and many folk steer clear of such people and their music due to superstitions. The last piece is a remarkable piece of music. It touches us in a certain way, without even knowing anything about its ‘history’.
Many of these programs can be listened to a few times. There are subtle points that often get missed. Like seeing a movie twice, you tend to notice many more details the second time around. With ‘pointers’ they can often appears to have many facets to them. The ‘truer’ they are the more facets.
In other words the so-called ‘truth’ cuts across all delineations and is totally relevant. Like a ‘pathway home’ the essence of the pointer can stop the mind anywhere and in any apparent condition. Even when one is seemingly deep into identification, a ‘pointer’ can slice straight through it.
Posted by Tom on 04.25.10 5:22 am
The best of UG here–though he would probably throw that out–and a wonderful piece at the end.I seem to recall that Gurdjieff was interested in music, but never knew he was composer of this quality. This is the first podcast I have downloaded.
(Ed: G.I. Gurdjieff and Thomas De Hartmann wrote some of the most moving pieces of music (in collaboration), many of their pieces are based on ancient melodies. Gurdjieff took a deep interest in the effects of music on the psyche of man. He also produced sacred dances which were performed to some of the pieces. A film by Peter Brooke called “Meetings with Remarkable Men” has some of these dances and many pieces of his music in it. You can find these sacred dances from this film on Youtube, if you are interested)
Posted by Scarfox on 04.25.10 6:13 am
It is all knowing… UG is usually an asshat.
Posted by Marker on 04.25.10 10:44 pm
Always curious, when a friend is So Taken by an experience with a personage who claims to “transmit” an energy pattern with a mere **Gaze**, which supposedly Gives the seeker some~thing that they cannot possess AND already ARE.
Mi Papa, when I was young, used to set up, sponsor and create events, seminars and workshops with all sorts of beings from channelers, healers, psychics, funnel-ers and a vast variety of people claiming to do or be this or that. The majority of these people were charlatans, who for a mere $500.00 an hour could seemingly channel the Archangel Michael or clear all your past life karma or “Breathe” you into oblivion, all of which was supposed to give you the “needed” Purpose or Direction for your life’s path.
Just wanted you to know the conditioning and lens through which these “appearances” are *seen*, here, at times.
The common denominators in all of those experiences, was that, #1,,,There was money involved ( not donations, but people being charged for seemingly receiving That which they already Are) #2… All of the Spiritual “experiences” came and went, usually leaving the “me”, More parched and thirsty than Ever, and #3…None of them Ever stopped the Primary Dis~ease which has been called “The Search”.
“I” cannot say what is true or not because “ALL” is valid, in the appearance, and if there is posturing or taking a stance for or against Anything, then we seem to morph from flowing water to solid rock, and as such, need to defend or protect a position who’s only reality exists in mind/concepts and form.
In other words “I” Dunno….. ;o)
Posted by fernando on 04.26.10 1:14 am
Reality is ONE (there are NOT two ‘realities’).
Reality is what you are.
There are NO boundaries in what you are.
SEEING this is enough.
Posted by Cat on 04.26.10 3:29 am
Krishnamurti doesn’t make any sense?
(Ed: What does this sentence mean? it sounds like a statement and yet it has a question mark at the end.)
Posted by Dogribb on 04.26.10 11:38 am
Have to say I agree with Scarfox.Though when I discovered him I was becoming more interested in the message.At least you knew where he stood.He was most helpful to me when it came to Jiddu Krishnamurti who I confess was becoming too important to me. Jiddu – UG = 0
Posted by gilbert on 04.26.10 1:54 pm
Does it have to be spelled out in single letters?
No one talking. What I say is not born out of MY thinking.
It is not about the messenger. The messenger is not important. Any messenger who makes a fuss about himself is a dud. Even so the message can be delivered.
It is not all in the words. Thought, Feeling and Emotion are the same ‘thing’. ‘They’ can behave like a two way membrane. Thoughts, feelings and emotion can appear to block the hearing of the message if they are believed in – ‘tight fabric’. Expand it all and the message slips through easily. This is a conceptual example which may ‘appear’ to be useful for one and not for others.
Whatever the case may be……once the message is truly heard, the messenger is no longer necessary. Everything opens up by itself and insights happen naturally. Yet nothing ever happened. It appears the the River has changed direction, turned 180 degrees in One Instant – and no ‘more’ is needed from ‘that moment on’. Yet assistance may still appear or not.
The Ultimate and Final result is Zero – because that is the starting ‘point’. Even the Big bang and the expanding universe theory aligns itself with all other theories and knowledge, like dots in the infinite sky. ‘We’ cannot see all the stars in the universe because the speed of light is not infinite. Yet Infinity stands before our eyes. How can we truly say that we do not see what is TRUE?
Can something come out of nothing?
As Nisargadatta say: “When I see that I am nothing, that is wisdom…..”
He was not making it all up from imagination. His words have ‘meaning’ because they are more than just correct.
Posted by gilbert on 04.26.10 2:55 pm
NOTICE: Some of you will remember ‘Richard’ from the frequent comments on these pages a few months ago. Richard has been gravely ill recently and nearly slipped away. He has been in intensive care for some time and now he begins therapy soon. I am sure many of you will join me as we all wish Richard a good recovery. Love is the essential nature of life…….. and we hope to see his presence back here with us soon.
Love to Richard.
Posted by claudia on 04.27.10 3:15 am
If there has been any doubt about the universally revealing (and healing) power of music, it is for ever cleared with this wonderful programme! Hearing is always already and choicelessly happening, prior to any interpretation, feeling or emotion – and I am the hearing only.
Posted by Cat on 04.27.10 3:27 am
just meant confused, but i was confusing, woops.
Posted by Jacob on 04.27.10 6:22 am
A whole load of love is beaming its way to you from the isle of wight , hang in there Richard. x
Posted by gilbert on 04.27.10 12:31 pm
Emails from one or two about the Note above. I say this: No need to take the moral high ground and use all the non dual jargon regarding the natural compassionate communion expressed recently above.
Tell it to me when you are in the intensive care unit and barely able to catch a breath.
There is only LIFE and it expresses itself in all conditions and all places simultaneously.
Posted by fernando on 04.28.10 10:47 am
«Driving to work this morning, I looked up at the morning Sun shining in my eyes.
Effortlessly shining.
Shine”ing”
Do”ing”
Noth”ing”
Liv”ing”
Die”ing”
Realizing again… that I am the “ing” in Everything.
Seeing… Knowing…
Love”ing”.»
– Joe Winslow
Posted by WallyD on 04.28.10 11:59 am
beautiful words, beautiful music, beautifully put together.
there is no one to realize anything.
Posted by Scarfox on 04.29.10 6:34 am
Ah I had been wondering what happened to Richard, thought maybe he had gotten sick, was still in Haiti, or gotten sick of the ugc. Hope he gets better if that’s what need be.
Posted by fernando on 04.29.10 10:46 am
You are alone.
There is no ‘world’.
There are no ‘others’.
You are the ‘world’. You are the ‘others’.
ONLY you, alone, all-ONE…
Posted by Cat on 04.30.10 2:50 am
There is not so much a feeling of being trapped, but there is a wish to change unwanted behaviour/habits. Since there is no one one engaging in these behaviours then why do they arise if they are unwanted? It’s like where do these things arise from? If there is no one doing them and they are not to be labeled good or bad then what’s going on? When we see clearly that there is no person does all unwanted behaviour stop?
Posted by Sandy Jones on 04.30.10 3:28 am
I have been thinking about this pod cast and the resulting thread. It occurs to me that Something could be pointed out here and it might help Richard too. It is not about UG Krisnamurti, or anyone else who seems to be the messenger. It is about This Awareness that listens. Let us not forget that this awareness that listens is God’s awareness. It’s the only awareness that is. We’ve never been outside it. We’ve never been anything other than it. For me, whenever I notice This, it never fails to bring me Peace. Being with awareness, and staying there, realizing This Awareness is eternally and forever what My identity Is, brings me freedom from fear, brings me a Peace that the old bible says “passeth understanding”. Knowing Who I am, knowing My Real Identity, which is this Awareness, is to be the beholder, the witnessing of infinity, harmony, tenderness, gentleness, sincerity, Health, wholeness, Sweet Wonder, rest, relief and a greater understanding of the human situation. Now That is Some Identity to be—and in fact This is who and what we be. Then to see further, this Awareness is guiltless. As my mentor, William Samuel always would say “what is guilt, by the way? The means by which guiltlessness is made clearly apparent. Would anyone know what guiltlessness is had he not tried to live the being guilty of being black or being yellow or being white or being poor or sick or old or young?”
And we look at the world and see how the old human intellect and its belief system is trying to ramp up all this guilt once again,using fear and guilt to gain power.
From where I stand the world of appearances has finally gone insane and we are coming to find that the human intellect has no answers anymore. This is Good, the old false system of layers, divsions, based on intellect may have hit the collective brick wall that was inevitable. We might be witnessing the demise of the collective ‘me sense’. I once saw that “as I awaken” or “What I Be is what I see” the whole world will follow suit and perhaps this is going on now.
Now, to know what it is, we shall need to find The Heart of us, the heart tells us in no uncertain terms, there is something right now that responds and reverberates inside that says, ‘yes, this awareness is immaculate, pure. Putting it in words that work for me; It is the Christ identity, the Christ which said, “I shall never leave you nor forsake you.” It is the Christ life here, now. We take it to be the identity we be and accept the heritage that has been ours from the beginning, the birth right that’s been ours from the beginning. As it’s been said, “It is the Father’s good pleasure to give us the kingdom.” Where does the kingdom appear? Within this awareness that’s aware, right here, right now. Where? Always within this awareness. How? Is there any effort required? Do we have to do anything to be awareness? No, and if you listen to these pod-casts it is Good to remember that Awareness is the listening, and It is Here and Now being All That I Am all that you are.
As simple, unjudging Awareness, we can watch it all with wonder and excitement like children standing on a high peak surveying the pounding surf below. The storm passes and the earth is refreshed. The Real remains untouched
Posted by gilbert on 04.30.10 11:06 am
Thank you Sandy. I will just point out that awareness is not listening. Awareness is the hearing. There is no listening and no listener. The word hearing is cleaner than listening.
Listening implies more strongly that there is a listener because it implies an act of listening. Hearing is the pure function.
Remembering and forgetting is mind. What you are is beyond mind and cannot be forgotten. It only appears to be remembered and that concept vanishes quickly into the knowing.
Posted by Sandy Jones on 04.30.10 3:34 pm
Oh Gilbert, you and I have fun don’t we? Yes, hearing may be wonderful pure function, but, as you know, I am not so into function as I am Heart.
But, I know Awareness also listens to Itself. It is This Awareness Listening To Itself.
As you know, I have no fear of using dualistic words. I know Who I Am, so my words are not problem to Me.
So, I will say, that for me, there is only one listening and I Am That (just as you are)—For me the word ‘listen’ and ‘listening’ is so much richer, deeper, more poetic; When listening I am moved. I sense Something touched in my Heart when I am listening. There is more resonance of Something Wondrous, when I really listen. For me, Listening is more of a ‘sensing in total’ it has more of an all encompassing depth than hearing.
It seems to me that ears hear, but the Heart, the Heart knows how to Listen.
If there were to be ‘judging contest’ saying what is closer to Awareness; when you listen or when you hear? For me it would be ‘listening. I am sensing My Beloved Light As My Self much more so when in the state of listening.
Listen, it is all so mysterious, silent, quiet, profound, soft, tender.
I am much less apt argue when I listen.
I think one is more at attention when listening, the Heart is involved, awake, alert. I hear lots of things all day long. But when I am listening, its different.
One listens to music, and yes, we hear the music with our ears, but really, we listen to the music with much more than our ears–Ah yes, even a deaf person can listen.
We don’t say “I am going to hear some music” we say, “I am going to listen to music” Why? because music touches more than the function of hearing, it moves us, if lifts our soul, it gets us dancing—Its more than hearing—Listen to that rhythm, listen to that beat, feel your soul soar to that sound. O
r listen to that heart broken sorrow in those heavenly glorious chords.
Listen to the stillness– Listen, we can even listen in silence. But do we ‘hear’ silence? Not so much.
Someone says “Did you hear that?” and we stop and we listen.
God and I One, but my Father is Greater than I, and I am listening.
Listening is so much More for me.
Do you like someone to listen to you, or do prefer they hear you?
Listening to a talk on Awareness, I ‘hear’ what is said, but I am more immediately with This Awareness when I am listening with my heart, to the heart of the speaker. I listen to the tone, the cadence, That Something Else that tells me if he is honest and real. There is so Much More than the just hearing the words.
Gilbert puts music to the words, so that I can shift my mood to listen, really listen.
I can hear the words, but when I listen, really listen I Hear Something that takes me back to Here and Now, Self to Self, Love to Love. If there is only One, then listening to My Self is one of the Sweetest Sounds I know of–My Self listens to My Self, and there is no other to be doing any of this listening I Am.
Posted by piersede on 04.30.10 9:53 pm
Cat, I think the first question is to really get to the bottom of who is feeling separate, and who is wishing to change unwanted behavioural patterns. When that questions is answered, it may be that the behavioural patterns will fall away, having been perpetually regenerated and nourished by a belief in separation. This is paraphrasing something Rupert Spira wrote about a similar issue and it’s helped me tremendously.
Posted by fernando on 04.30.10 11:45 pm
‘Listening’ implies ‘atention to’, a ‘narrowing of ‘hearing’.
‘Hearing’ is ALL-inclusive. ‘Listening’ is selective.
‘Awareness’ and ‘hearing’ are synonimous.
Posted by Sandy Jones on 05.01.10 12:58 am
Yes, you know it always comes back to both are Good–no sides are better, both are Good— Life obviously includes both Listening and Hearing—and the infinity of eveything else, above, below and besides—How wonderful this Allness of All Truely Is—
Posted by Ronna on 05.01.10 4:03 am
Well, this podcast is so beautiful and simple, thanks to everyone who contributed to this as well as making it avaible at the click of a button and, as always, total free!!
Posted by Marker on 05.01.10 4:03 am
Beautifully Explained for the Un~Explainable~
Posted by Ronna on 05.01.10 4:35 am
Oops should have typed ‘totally’ free. Thanks so much for all that has been done and, is being done to keep this direct and clear message available for so many for no cost.
Posted by WallyD on 05.01.10 1:07 pm
This is it!!!
I am not that
How can I be that
there is only that
that is all there is.
You are not
I am not
there is only this, no separation.
You are not awareness
Give up trying to find your true nature
there is no you to have a nature, let alone a true nature.
Nature is
Awareness is
Use whatever labels you want it doesn’t matter.
UG said something like “we assume that there is such a thing as an I, What I assert all the time is I haven’t formed anything like I there, any center there, any self there, any soul there, this question haunted me all through my life and suddenly it hit me, there is no self to realize what the hell you have been doing all the time.’
All kinds of things are happening to no one by no one there is no individuals, no identity. It has all been said on these podcasts
YOU will never get this!!! I would like to respond to the question regarding “unwanted behaviors” This is what a very generous UGC speaker shared with me when I had a similar question. He said if the body gets sick than perhaps a decision to go to a doctor and take prescribed medication will happen to keep the body healthy, This isn’t about judgment about a “person” doing the right thing or the wrong thing. What I found is that choices will be made without a you making them. inserting a false I into things only creates an sense of conflict where no conflict exists.
Posted by Ronna on 05.02.10 2:34 am
No self, no problem
Posted by suki on 05.02.10 4:07 am
Awareness is not an experience.
‘We’ only ‘know’ through experience.
The ‘we, you, me, and I’ are all experience.
Experience appears and disappears in Awareness.
Experience includes time, space, matter and consciousness.
Awareness IS prior to all experience.
There is none or no-one to know it.
It is unknowable, beyond object and subject.
Total, whole and indivisible.
Awareness is what you are.
Posted by fernando on 05.02.10 10:46 am
«It’s quite common in non-duality circles to hear things like, ‘I am not the body-mind, nor am I any entity; I am the awareness within which these things arise.’
But you are NOT the awareness within which these things arise. Actually, you have no identity. You cannot be identified with anything at all.
We mistakenly identify ourselves with all manner of things: the body, the mind, the ego, an enlightened being, etc., and when we graduate to ‘I am awareness,’ we figure we have discovered our true identity. We think it’s good to dump the ‘entity’ identification and take up the ‘awareness’ identification. But it’s just doing more of the same. We’ve only identified with one more ‘thing’ that we are not.
And so what is our real identity?
We don’t have one. There is no such thing as a ‘real identity.’ You are not anything that can be identified. Who you are cannot be identified.»
– Annette Nibley
Posted by gilbert on 05.02.10 12:15 pm
Before the seed is planted, the soil must be tilled.
The endless talk is useless if the seed is not planted.
There are many who profess to be the broadcaster of ‘the seeds of truth’ but the seeds are most usually just weeds.
The one who is the maturation of the seed carries the seed and does not profess or claim anything.
When a seed germinates, the nature of the seed is known. Resonance.
All impressions are food for the nourishment of the seed.
The seed contains the fruit and the fruit contains the seed.
The harvest comes at the appropriate moment.
The seed is ‘I am-ness’.
The knowing what I am is via the light which shines of itself.
Posted by Cat on 05.02.10 3:50 pm
“choices will be made without a you making them” so it’s that the ‘correct’ action will take place when you get the you out of the way?
Posted by Randall Friend on 05.03.10 5:55 am
Life is obvious – both the function and appearance are none other than Life itself. It is when the idea of individual life is the paradigm of reality suffering comes. The individual is the very definition of limitation – how can what is inherently limited become limitless?
Life is all there is – one essence which manifests or expresses as experience – appearance… even the idea of individual self or individual life is a manifestation of that one Life. So no manipulation is necessary.
You are that one Life, the totality, the one essence – the individual is merely a way of thinking, an attempt at quantifying wholeness yet in doing so that essence is conceptually divided. The so-called “reason” this is so is because to NOT quantify is scary for the mind – to NOT KNOW is an untenable situation.
We may say there is no need to know, or there is no way of knowing. Yet there is no need to even say at all. You cannot truthfully deny your being as that one Life. You cannot get out of that Life. You cannot escape it. It IS – the very reality of any experience is that being-knowing.
Stop projecting an imaginary reality, a false individual self, and recognize right now your true and simple being as that one Life, that one essence. There is nothing to lose and nothing to gain.
Be. Be without applying the first concept about it. There is no more to know.
Posted by Cat on 05.03.10 8:39 am
There’s two quotes that I got from John Wheeler’s book that seem helpful.
“You do not need to fix, solve or know anything in order to be. Just see this and the old habits drop off on their own.” and
“This is utterly beyond the ability of the mind to understand. Yet it is completely obvious in direct seeing.”
My friend suggests saying ‘not 2′ to remember.
Posted by Randall Friend on 05.03.10 10:23 am
Cat,
Is your BEING dependent on memory? Do you have to remember anything to BE? If there is some mental formula or saying or concept which you wish to keep constantly in mind, it can only ever be a concept. It’s still imagination.
Nothing is required means – nothing is required. Not even remembering – not even some mental understanding of nonduality. You already ARE what you are seeking. Only discard what is imagination and conceptual – what remains must be reality as it is.
And what is that? That is – THIS – right here and now – without the first division – nondual reality isn’t hiding somewhere – it isn’t some new and wonderful state to be achieved once all the nonduality puzzle pieces are fit together.
You are present and aware – that has never changed while the so-called world, body and mind constantly change. That constancy is overlooked/ignored and the search is outward – trying to find peace in the impermanent. Peace is never absent. It is your true nature.
love to you
randall
Posted by Ronna on 05.03.10 10:49 am
Posted by gilbert on 05.03.10 3:23 pm
The mind is memory. An apparent you measure the immediacy of right now, to evaluate ‘this’ by using memory.
The true nature of mind is clear and empty.
You believe that you were born and so must die.
This ‘fear’ keeps the mind busy covering up what is clear and obvious.
You were never born.
What was born was the idea ‘I am’. What has been added to that is endless descriptions……and none of it is real.
Posted by WallyD on 05.04.10 4:09 am
One substance one essence, If everything is space than try to find the space that is you.
Which wave in the ocean should I identify with???
If everything is energy why do I need to say I am energy? how can there be an I if everything is of the same substance?
Its all there is, there is no more, no less. Doesnt this eliminate the need to give myself a new identity? I investagated and found no self center no location no place that an I or self resided.
one funtioning one happening there is no need to keep inserting an I into the piture.