81. There IS no one talking – UG
THE URBAN GURU CAFE IS A FREE PODCAST WHICH DOES NOT ASK THE LISTENER TO BELIEVE IN ANYTHING. Speakers who point clearly, without making a fuss about who they are or about what they say. We trust that you will find what you need in some of these 84 programs.
The train stops here, right here, right NOW. You can carry on searching but it will only be in your imagination.
UG Krishnamurti is expressing directness through these recordings. These last three programs may signify a cutting away of erroneous beliefs. It is a celebration of a messenger who refused to be categorized. There is no teaching – no teacher – just pointing. Whether it resonates or not appears to depend on the willingness to let go of preconceived ideas. The resistance is the ‘me’.
The extraordinary music includes Vassilis Tsabropoulos, Anja Lechner and U.T. Gandhi, the CD is titled “Melos” – plus another piece from Annour Brahem from a CD titled “Barkakh” – and a well known classic Pink Floyd track.
Web-Links on previous programs.
The UGC is a FREE podcast on the subject of Non Duality
There are recordings of Meetings with Nisargadatta on this site – the programs are called “Beyond Space and Time”.
Then UGC being a free podcast – relies on small donations to continue – they can be made through the website if the impulse applies.
“When the movement in the direction of becoming something other than what you are isn’t there any more, you are not in conflict with yourself.”
–U.G.
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“it’s all about the ride.”
-W.W.
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Trying to become what you are not . . .
What do you want? . . .
Simple
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It may ‘become very apparent’ for some, that we have come to the end of the line. The train stops HERE and NOW. You can go on searching for an answer but there isn’t any answer that will satisfy the mind. The mind by its very nature of operation cannot abide with any final answer. It will almost immediately split it into two and further into many parts and thus create more questions. The natural state of being is not dependent on mind stuff.
Whatever it is that you think you must find, is born of concepts only.
What you TRULY ARE is right here, right now. It can’t be anywhere else. What you truly are does not need any answers and it has no questions at all.
The futility of the search is rarely spoken of in the normal circles of aspirants. If it were truly pointed out in no uncertain terms the numbers would fall away dramatically. This is why those who share this direct pointing do not have hundreds of followers clambering over each other trying to rub shoulders with the guru.
There is no reason why you should take up the search ever again.
From this very moment, see that everything is clear and obvious just as it is. Then simply SEE what it is that tries to take you way from THAT. Simple.
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What else is there to say? The truth is simply the truth.
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So you think you can tell . .
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Once again I haven’t got a clue what UG is talking about.
(Editor: The mind (memory) can’t do anything with this ‘information’ so from the habits of thinking, it all stays meaningless)
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What do you want?
What is your identity?
Where is there a boundary of ‘real’ substance?
Where is there any separation at all, in reality? – in the thinking or feeling? Where?
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Isn’t it interesting to see, that there is no way anyone can argue about what is being presented. It demolishes the ‘search’. It also demonstrates that most are happy to go on and on ‘prattling on’ about this and that so long as it all keeps the belief in the ‘me’ ticking over. The UGC has presented 81 programs of many different speakers.
How anyone could listen to even just a dozen of these programs and still carry one searching is a marvel to behold. Of course there have been those who have truly stopped searching and even a few say that the UGC saved them from a dark and dim existence. Some may wish to dismiss that as merely banter – but I know it to be true.
All shadows are cast by a single source of light.
When the light of seeing comes to the fore, all shadows merge into the background.
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‘What-Is’, THIS… is Total, Whole, Complete. Is it not obvious?
Everything you see, hear, taste, smell, touch… everything you think, do or act is IMMERSED in the waters of this Totality.
Totality (THIS eternal moment) has no ‘parts’. There is no ‘you’, no ‘me’, no ‘past’, no ‘future’, no ‘anything’ in there.
Totality is whole, complete, without divisions, and Totality is precisely THIS, right here right now.
You can’t describe Totality. How could you describe ALL there is? It’s impossible.
But you can BE the Totality. You ARE the Totality.
YOU and TOTALITY are two words for the same ‘thing’.
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my heart melted listening to this last night lying in bed.
The music made my heart sore and soar.
I loved seeing your words Gilbert. The train stops here.
What do I really want?
I don’t even know that i want. I don’t even know what I want.
I can throw out some things like freedom, or peace or whatever…
And I hear it said that there is a free state and so I look for that.
Would I know what freedom felt like?
I seek. What am i seeking for. Any answer is just bullshit.
All I can say is that something feels like it is not right or something is missing.
Now I want to stop..but then do I really want to stop. It is just another addiction or habit seeking. Another thing to avoid life. I seek to avoid life as it is.
So WTF am I missing?
Longing for anything other than this.
Each new podcast naturally brings with it “This one will be the one”.. In other words hope creeps its head out of its little cave. And even replying to this now… Hope creeps out..perhaps it will be in the responses. Like the alcholic going to the bar to try and get a drink. Maybe the barman shouldn’t give him a drink and tell him to go somewhere else to get his fix. Maybe no response is the best response to this comment.
But I’v been to all the bars in town.. And deep down I know the hopelessness of this message is the only show in town. I know it because I know it because any other message out there involves some sort of imagination. Not reality..
And yet I keep looking because of all the learned ideas
what about energy moving out from a constricted idea to boundless life
What about the aliveness of every moment that they talk about
What about the freshness of every movement
What about the mystery of what will happen next..That’s not how life is felt here
What about the blah blah blah..
and these ideas keep the loop going..
Sorry lads.. I want to write and say it is all over and it never began..but but but but..
WTF am I looking for? “Oh Lord won’t u buy me a mercedez bennnzz, my friends all have porches, I must make amennnnnds”..
sure UGC would be boring without the painful ones like me, n’est pas??
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Try having a look at who and what thinks and feels all this. Suffering is an appearance, the me who suffers is an appearance.
What never changes?
One clear, direct pointer will seemingly end the search and the accompanying suffering. There are many pointers here
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Hey Frank why don’t you check out Randall Friend in Second Life, it rocks!
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This is beyond imagination, it IS unimaginable.
It is Non-Conceptual. Mind cannot grasp it, mind can only imagine it.
How can you find something that’s not lost?
And how can you lose That which is Everything?
All is there is, is All there IS.
Totality is You.
Imagine a circle without a circumference and a center!
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I don’t remember being aware of anything in deep sleep. Where is awareness then? It disappears. In deep sleep, there is no thing and no one.
Awareness requires phenomena to exist, no?
How can there be seeing without appearance. In deep sleep no thing is appearing, no body, no thought, nothing, so there is also no seeing, it has disappeared.
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Does a mirror stop reflecting when the lights are turned off?
Just because thinking ceases in deep sleep does not mean that awareness has disappeared.
If someone came knocking loudly on your bedroom door in the middle of the night (deep sleep) you would rouse and get up. How could that response happen if awareness had disappeared altogether.
There is no more awareness or less awareness.
It appears that there is more or less content. A relaxed day on a ragged old divan in the shade of a Coolaba tree, listening to the kookaburras and sipping on some ice cold lemonade may appear to have less content than a busy day in the office. It is all appearance and response to stimuli, which is also appearance.
Nothing new can come from the mind which is all past impressions (learned stuff). If a completely original concept was to appear, how would you even know that it was present? Have you ever had an original thought?
All we have to ‘work with’ is ‘the appearance’ and it is no proof of anything at all. It is all conceptual patterns repeating themselves in an infinite display of ever fresh ‘manifestation’. Who can be bored?
One awareness = One Reflection. Nothing in the mirror actually bumps into each other because it is One Reflection ‘appearing’ as many reflections. The apparent ‘bumping into each other’ is only an appearance. Equanimity Rules – like it or not.
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Actually Gilbert. I think a mirror DOES stop reflecting when the lights are turned off. Nit picking I know, but interesting philosophical question.
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You cannot prove it Gadge. Sound reflects off the surface in the dark.
Awareness is not limited at all. ‘The mirror’ as used here is just an analogy.
Without awareness, no philosophical stance or theory, concept or idea could even appear in any form whatsoever.
Nothing new can come from the mind.
It is all culturally biased and learned.
When the waking up happens in the morning, it appears that the mind takes a little while to stir into ‘second gear’.
This ‘effect’ implies that awareness is waking up. The sleep state and the waking state are both states that appear on or in awareness.
Awareness is NOT a state.
You can invent a new word to replace ‘awareness’ and it will make no difference whatsoever.
What is wrong with right now? – if you don’t think about it.
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Does a mirror reflect in the darkness? This is the Berkely question about whether if a tree falls in the forest, it makes a noise when there’s no one to hear it. We cannot separate any action from the experiencing of it, they are the same. Without ‘experience’ there is no world. So the question is what is experiencing – and the answer is nothing except the totality of our experience in the present moment….
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Awareness is primary, there is no present moment or any experience without Awareness.
Objectless Awareness is Awareness that is not aware of itself such as: deep dreamless sleep, prior to ‘birth’ and after ‘death’. It is the groundless substrate from which all objects arise: Consciousness, mind, body and world. As long as there are objects the lightless light of Awareness reflects of them. The Awareness is the Knowing. Without objects it is Knowing without Knowing or Awareness unaware of itself.
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Ashley, is your question a problem in deep sleep? No. There isn’t anyone for it to be a problem to.
Frankly, it seem that you believe that things aren’t the way they should be. Have you been told that they should be different? That is just a story. In the lack of stories about it, there is only what is. In appearance, it changes from moment to moment, as the field of being it contains and ultimately is all things.
When thoughts disappear, do you? When sensations change, do you?
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Ashley, if there is no ‘hearing’ while awareness is postulated to be absent, in deep sleep, what hears the loud knocking on the door?
if awareness was absent, nothing would be heard. Same with seeing. The mind does not collapse if there are no concepts present.
Seeing does not stop if light is absent. Hearing does not cease because there is silence.
The term ‘seeing’ is not limited to the light sensitive nerve endings that emerge from the brain (what we call eyes).
Nothing new can come from the mind – it simply repeats whatever input has gone into it. It is mechanical.
Understanding is not in the mind. What people call an ‘intellectual understanding’ is nothing but mechanics and that is why it is unsatisfying.
The mind says ‘something arises’ from….etc.
In fact nothing is created and nothing arises or subsides.
This is clearly evident in the ‘space’ in which the ‘seeing’ appears to be. All concepts vanish in the seeing. This vanishing leaves you as you are, without a concept of being an ‘entity’ or ‘you’, however that is conceived.
There is NO answer in the mind – for what is being pointed to.
You are THAT. Full Stop (period).
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Yes, I see what you’re saying, it does make sense. I also know that making sense of it with my mind is not directly experiencing who I am.
I’ll keep paying attention to what’s seeing everything.
There is one more question: Is a sort of “deep sleep” or nothingness what is experienced after ‘death’ and before ‘birth’ or is there any way to know? Maybe the question is irrelavant, as I realize that I should be paying attention to the one who sees this question.
The question is definitely not a problem in deep sleep. Deep sleep is something I look forward to, that peaceful nothingness, when there is no me. It’s the waking state that appears to be a problem!
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Ashley, in deep sleep consciousness is still there without content, in other words the mind is temporary suspended or held in abeyance. On waking you know you had a rest full sleep but nothing else to report on, since there is no mind activity.
Before ‘birth’ there is no body, mind and consciousness – there is NO experience of anything, since you have no faculty or sense to experience, ie:mind, consciousness.
What you are is not experience,memory, mind or consciousness. They are not separate from you, but you are not them. They appear to you.
In truth you are unborn, what is born and dies is experience. Your true identity is Awareness or Knowing or whatever word you prefer. Awareness is all there is, it does not come or go.
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In a way all the mind can do is put labels on ‘it’ and all the labels are from the culture, the experiences, memories and language – all from the past. How can yesterday capture the immediacy of ‘today’ – Now?
The waking state and the sleep state appear on awareness.
The dream state cannot exist in the waking state – it fades away.
In deep sleep there is no idea of a ‘witness’ and the impressions that are registering are not reacted to by the mind. The ‘you’ or ‘me’ is not present to be referred to. The body is resting and the ‘batteries’ are being recharged, one could say.
You know nothing of death, it is just a label. You cannot remember being born. You cannot say what you are with 100% accuracy – you can say what you are not by investigating what you are.
Identity and boundaries are fictional data points.
There is no such thing as a point in space which is separate from the whole.
If I told you what you truly are, it would be rejected by the mind.
Rediscovering what you are is a momentary intimate discovery.
From that ‘speck’ appears the whole universe.
Such statements sound absurd to the intellect, unless a taste of it has opened up.
As the Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu says: The Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao.
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What you’re saying makes sense intellectually and my mind wants to believe it.
I cannot deny that the waking state feels real. I can see that there is the seeing happening, yes something is seeing all of it, understanding intellectually that appearances can’t be proven to be anything other than a dream doesn’t change the suffering that is experienced in the waking state, at least in my experience.
I realize that believing that someone else has found something called liberation and that I can too, can’t be stood upon, it can’t be relied on, it is seen to have no substance. Hearing that someone else has discovered peace of mind feels good, but that good feeling doesn’t last. Knowing that all appearances in the waking state are temporary and being that it all still feels completely real while it’s happening … doesn’t bring peace of mind or transcendence of suffering, in my experience.
Is there something here, that I could describe as me, that is looking for peace of mind and an end to suffering?
Absolutely. There’s something looking for peace of mind because this waking state feels like hell.
I want advaita to really be pointing to something real, to be true, I’m just seeing that believing it is not enough.
In trying to prove it…so far, I can not.
At least that’s the way it seems now. I have no idea what will happen, or why anything is happening at all..or who i am…or how I exist…I really don’t know anything, accept that I am aware and experiencing things, and the experiences can rang anywhere from nothingness(deep sleep) to horrifying to euphoric.
It feels like this is something that I can just accept for now, not because I’m doing it, but because I’m seeing there’s no choice but to accept what is. It is. If what it is is the experience of on-going suffering that feels absolutely real, then that’s what it is.
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Ask yourself, am I really separate from my nature as presence – awareness? Does the assumed separate person I imagine myself to be really exist? The SEEING is that this assumption of a separate I is just that, an assumption and not correct ever. Ask Gilbert (the supposed knower of all) and he will tell you it took some ‘apparent’ time to see clearly. So there’s no need to ever be discouraged, discouragement is just a label on an experience and nothing more. Just know that the SEEING (when seen, and you will know it) is 100% correct and reliable. It’s more like removing a veil, not acquiring any knowledge. You’ve got it right, don’t fight with what is, it’s only shadow boxing. This is how Nisagadatta described what is;
“Having realized that I am with, and yet beyond the world, I became free from all desire and fear. I did not reason out that I should be free, I found myself free, unexpectedly with the least effort. This freedom from desire and fear remained with me since then. Another thing I noticed was that I do not need to make an effort, the deed follows the thought, without delay and friction. I have also found that thoughts become self-fulfilling; things would fall in place smoothly and rightly. The main change was in the mind; it became motionless and silent, responding quickly, but not perpetuating the response. Spontaneity became a way of life, the real became natural and the natural became real. And above all infinite affection, love, dark and quiet, radiating in all directions, embracing all, making all interesting and beautiful, significant and auspicious.”
The Maharaj is describing our true nature. Why hang onto what is limited? The mind by it’s very definition is limitation. John Wheeler described it as sitting on a pile of gold and asking the value of a piece of copper. That’s how the mind limits us, it focuses on what has no real value.
What is beyond mind is indescribable, it is who you really are. Just trust that, that’s it. Hope this is helpful Ashley.
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Thanks for the beautiful Maharaj quote!
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A million ‘people’ can all say that it makes sense intellectually and within minutes arguments may break out and within an hour violence – all over an apparent ‘agreement’.
Those who use the words ‘intellectual understanding’ are missing the point that the intellect is nothing but the ‘acquired mind’, which cannot truly understand anything.
It is clearer to say that a resonance happens – a ‘bell rings’ – a sense that something is true.
If one stays stuck to the limited beliefs (the intellect), things will simply go around and around – shape shifting the same maze, over and over.
The mind is like a geometric maze with moving parts. ‘We’ can spend a whole lifetime moving the parts of the maze in the intellect and nothing changes.
The recognition of our true nature is cosmic, unlimited, presence-awareness.
It is impossible to describe and impossible to deny.
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It is in fact amazing that ‘we’ have seemingly become such complicated creatures, always unhappy, always unsatisfyed and tied up in irreparable contradictions – overlooking and ignoring completely the simple fact of our own being. Covering up the mistery and marvel of the fact that ‘I am present and aware’ with a story of the remorses and desires of a poor little ‘me’. I can’t stop wondering: How could it come all about? It takes a hell of a lot of courage, and brutal honesty is requiered – so it seems – to stop pretending to be what I am not. And yet, nothing stays in the way, nothing is needed, nothing has to be changed – no special state or knowledge has to be acquired to be what I am, for I am already that. So, whatever speaks against it, must be false. Isn’t that blindingly obvious?
P.S. An immense pleasure, these last three programs, for they allowed a rediscovery of the ‘torpedero’ UG Krishnamurti. Thank you so much for this!
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It doesn’t matter what stories we believe in – without BEING, they mean nothing. What we consider to be something to achieve is the first thing that is a given – unquestionable.
Words always muck it up. Without being, words have no meaing.
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sorry anatta but huh?
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I am no thing. The mind cannot grasp that. Stupid mind.
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Seeing-Knowing is happening. It’s undeniable.
That which is happening IN Seeing-Knowing is ever changing, but Seeing-Knowing It-Self NEVER changes.
The mind, which is ever changing, cannot grasp that which is Un-Changing.
For the mind, Seeing-Knowing is only an idea.
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In reality nothing is happening. Appearance is not real, it does not exist. If something does not exist it cannot become unreal. There is only the Seeing/Knowing, That is the Reality. Phenomena appear and disappear, much like a dream.
The dream is full of objects; mountains, sky, trees,people,etc, on waking they disappear. The objects don’t exist. There is only one thing that exists and that is No-Thing – you are That.
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Again I notice appreciation for your clean and direct pointing. Thanks
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Hey Ronna,
Do you ever go to van?
Maybe you want to come to the giant nonduality conference for dinner or coffee
Cat and I can organize it
We can keep it small and chill by discouraging any “persons” to attend
The poster will be very clear about nothing to get at all from this
Don’t waste your time, this isn’t for you etc
I’d love to put a poster in Banyon Books, a huge spiritual bookshop on 4th
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Sailor Bob has a new website at http://www.sailorbobadamson.com. It’s worth checking out. More content (new videos, audio, pointers) will continue to be added.
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Cat, all I’m saying is: only one “thing” has ever been pointed at on this website. It is the unchanging reality of all states, conditions and perceptions. It is the simplest “thing” there is and, if there is awareness, that is the proof of it’s presence.
In the absence of consciousness there are no problems. This non-problematic oneness is the reality of our being, even in the apparent dramas of consciousness – it underlies and abides all – it has no substance and it is the only substance. The appearance of life isn’t a problem, it’s the acceptance of the projections of thought as the truth that makes it seem so.
When it is assumed that one is a seeker, one is looking for a state of completeness and happiness. The ironic part is that one never was outside of what one is and all states are transitory – to cling to one and avoid others is futile. The “engine” that keeps seeking happening is the idea that when one “gets this”, all experience will be what thought labels “good”. In consciousness, it isn’t possible to have the good without the bad and it is impossible to escape what you are. The thing that is being sought has never been and can’t be lost. There would be no image of a seeker or anything else without it.
No one could lose or be apart from this. In the absence of what we are, no experience would be possible. We never existed as separate people. Undivided being is the sole reality. Words and beliefs will never alter or describe it. Not one word is needed to make it complete – it is so.
Sorry for all of the words, who is reading them?
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The 2 minute audio on Bob’s site is so clear
I mailed it to a buddhist friend saying
2 minute direct realization of emptiness or your money back
the direct r of e seems to be the big prize in those circles
Thanks Gilbert
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New Book on Bob Adamson is released – go to Bob’s new website listed in a comment above and go to Books page…….last book on the list of 4.
We might put it on top….soon.
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Freedom is knowing there is no where to get to, nothing to attain, and no separate person to strive to attain anything.
peace is felt knowing that its always good enough and could not be otherwise.
I’m looking forward to reading Bobs Bio, I came to AA almost 20 years ago and sought through prayer and meditation to improve my conscience contact with God, I was fortunate enough to come across “I am that” through a fellow AA member and everything changed.
No more seeking to improve what was always perfect.
My problem was I believed a lie, I was separate, I was different, I needed lots of improving, I would never measure up. EVERYTHING IS MADE OF THE SAME SUBSTANCE, CALL IT GOD OR WHATEVER MAKES SENCE TO YOU. That one substance doesn’t have to become enlightened, or cleansed, or improved. All of my problems came out of my thinking and they where never real. No amount of alcohol, sex, or drugs could have made me feel like I was OK. I know now that it has never been otherwise.
Thank you to those who have carried this message to those who still suffer.
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‘Freedom is knowing there is no where to get to, nothing to attain, and no separate person to strive to attain anything.
peace is felt knowing that its always good enough and could not be otherwise.’
Thanks Wally
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Isn’t repeating what we hear just mind? Has the mind ever had an original thought? Why pretend to know?
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Perhaps I read it wrong? However, even if I read wrong, my post may be of some value.
From what I gather, there is to be a meeting on “non-dualism” but they are trying to keep out those they do not want. It is an exclusive club of “non-dualists”–Isn’t that rather an oxymoron? I thought “non-dualism” implies “without another” such as Allness, Total, Whole, All Inclusive Light, Infinite Being, Unbound, Immeasurable, Omniscient, One, Only– and I had assumed we have arrived at the understanding that, all means all, all the ‘appearing’ is but the images made manifest here within this ONE Infinite Light of Awareness, the Living Presence(we are) —images; nothing to get up about, good, bad and all of it, nothing harmful, nothing to judge—all the same, Only One Source, images, just the passing, transient ‘unreal’ images, manifestations of This Infinite Light, Life, Living Truth that our ‘Real Self’ ‘really is’—
Isn’t Infinite infinite? Isn’t All all? Or do we just profess these ideas, and not really live them? Why would you want only those who “understand” to come? Because it is easy to love those who agree with us, and not so easy to love those who do not? Isn’t that still the ‘old paradigm’? Why not be giving and sharing the Light you supposedly have come to find some inklings of, why not give to others who are in need of seeing and understanding? Why do you limit the Light? Why the constraints on ‘how it is said’or who says it, when we know Life is That Which Is Limitless?
If the Living One could be limited or stuck inside a certain dogma or order, meeting, words or ‘ism’ it wouldn’t be infinite, would it?
Life is random, messy, wild, unconstrained, unlimited, unbound, all inclusive wonderment and joy–It is not an intellectualizing and rationalizing thing—It is about the Heart, The Free Spirit, The Child of God—Therein one finds the the Art of Living—which is really much closer to what our glorious glimmers of the true nature of Life-God, our Self, and our Oneness, is really about.
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“Nothing new can come from the mind – it simply repeats whatever input has gone into it – it is mechanical.:” GW
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The mind is an effect. An effect is intrinsically inseparable from the cause, but it can never know the cause(less).
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What is the mind an effect of? The mind is a concept and has no basis in reality. How can something that does not exist have an effect?
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All appearances are effects including mind. They are known by contrast ie: tree different from sky, cat different from dog, waking state different from dreaming state, one thought different from another thought, etc.
There cause or source is No-Thing. Because in Reality that is all that exists. Which makes the appearances or effects non-existent, ephemeral and dream like.
How are ‘you’ able to view these words on the screen and interact in the ‘relative’ world without effects?
The ‘you’ that you take yourself to be is an effect too.
So ‘you’ in ‘effect’ do not exist.
In truth what you are is not an appearance or an effect and does not appear and so can never disappear. This is why mind cannot grasp non-dual non-conceptual awareness, which is your true identity.
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The mind has a seeming effect because everything is valid in the appearance. Magical tricks, Goofy Gurus, Dodgy spiritual salesmen, loving spoonfuls of bliss and whatever appears in the conceptualizing.
It is all valid as an appearance, or as the appearance. Look up the definition of ‘appearance’ and the dictionary will say something like “That which appears to be”. It appears to be. It has no being whatsoever. This is not some high school psychology trick.
Everything, without a single exception appears in the ‘seeing’. The ‘seeing’ does not appear. Even the eye cannot see itself.
You cannot see out of someone else’s eyes so don’t bother. Like…”What does she see in him?” and “Are these jeans too tight darling?” or “Does my bum look big in these pants?”
Well, I can see I have lost you already. Jeesh. I will come back later when you have settled down.
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