Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
83. Knock knock – Who is it? – ME – There’s no space here
Posted on 05.23.10 11:54PM under Podcast
THE URBAN GURU CAFE IS A FREE PODCAST WHICH DOES NOT ASK THE LISTENER TO BELIEVE IN ANYTHING. Speakers who point clearly, without making a fuss about who they are. We trust that you will find what you need in some of these 100 programs.
Zak expresses his ‘take’ on this ‘subject’. He is contactable via his website.
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Posted by Cat on 05.24.10 1:47 am
This ones for you frank,
“Seeking is reliance on concepts to ascertain reality – as such reality remains a product of concepts’. RF
Posted by frankly on 05.24.10 6:19 am
I’ll be checking it out so
Posted by fernando on 05.24.10 8:17 am
Apparently, there are two ‘things’: Reality and concepts about Reality.
Concepts about Reality appear (and disappear) IN Reality.
Actually, there is only ONE ‘thing’: Reality.
Posted by gilbert on 05.24.10 12:39 pm
Nothing appears in reality. What appears is appearance.
Appearance is not reality.
No Thing Appears AS everything in the multiple forms of ‘the appearance’. Where does it all register?
Reality is ‘What IS’.
‘You’ as a believed in reference point in mind, can never grasp ‘what is’ – because for the mind, it either hasn’t arrived yet, or it already left half a millisecond ago.
Mind is Time. Mind is Me. (Flash Bang Whallop)
The seeker will never arrive at its projected destination. It can’t and it can’t for a thousand home grown ‘reasons’.
The Wall which separates the seeker from what it seeks is a fiction, made of the same stuff the seeker is made of. Concepts.
You getting close yet? “Common mate, we’re all waitin’ for ya”.
Just kiddin’ – G.
Posted by Jacob on 05.24.10 6:46 pm
Bloomin miles away man running out supplys to , picknic is running low . dam it!
Posted by fernando on 05.24.10 9:33 pm
So, this ‘not yet’ is a concept…
Thank you, Gilbert.
Aprecio mucho el ‘tip’, amigo
F
Posted by suki on 05.25.10 12:18 am
Whatever you can describe or explain, does not exist.
That which exists, is too immediate and too direct to be captured and formulated into a concept – YOU.
There is NO TIME to conceptualize this. It is already so.
Posted by Ronna on 05.25.10 3:06 am
Thanks Suki, clear, simple and direct.
Posted by frankly on 05.25.10 4:48 am
Cat et all
For every question there is a conceptual answer here. Limited questions are asked, if indeed any, because the conceptual answer appears every time. Thought has the answer to every question.
Now any answer I hear feels like an answer that I already know.. In other words..I know the apple tastes like an apple. I know I have never tasted the apple. So I have a useless concept of an apple. I still believe that the taste of apple exists though and for that reason I am looking to taste the apple.. I have read loads of descriptions of the apple so I long for the apple…all the while feeling that life is incomplete without knowing what an apple tastes like. Once I have tasted the apple, then then life will be great..Now I can hear those words..so I know them to be typical of the seeker.. Looking for something else other than what is presented….Perhaps i should drop the idea that there is the taste of apple… Problem is I could drop the idea that tasting an apple is not possible..but i would just have another idea that tasting an apple is not possible..
Words like ‘drop the belief and all will be revealed’ and the mind goes..well there obviously talking to this nothingness and not ME. How can I drop any beliefs…sometimes beliefs stop..but they are more likely replaced with something else… Like… “This is all there is”… But it is an idea… It used to be God is up there in the stars. Now its “There was only ever life happening and no one doing anything” another concept.. U gotta laugh really
It is possible to drop ideas/beliefs…for a moment perhaps and if you are lucky enough to remember that..you can drop them a little bit more..And sometimes they fade away…..But it does appear to me as another way of saying..”Be here now”..
Anyways..there you go…blah blah blah… A me still trying to get it.. BO HO
Posted by fernando on 05.25.10 5:35 am
«’You’ as a believed in reference point in mind, can never grasp ‘what is’ – because for the mind, it either hasn’t arrived yet, or it already left half a millisecond ago.»(Gilbert)
«That which exists, is too immediate and too direct to be captured and formulated into a concept – YOU.» (Suki)
Thank you
Posted by gilbert on 05.25.10 10:36 am
We imagine that we have a choice and ‘we’ congratulate or punish ourselves for the choices ‘we’ apparently make.
If you look closely at the apparent process of choice making, you will see no evidence to support that belief. LIFE lives you.
You have made it this far, without falling apart – why do you imagine that LIFE will abandon you, if you see through the illusion?
Posted by Randall Friend on 05.25.10 11:52 am
The first step is too much. The first thought about it is already conceptual. The first attempt to grasp it is already enough to miss it. Yet it can never be missed, because it is already here, already fully present, not hidden, not a secret, not the achievement of a few special ones, not something gained after a lifetime of effort.
Experiencing is happening – until the conceptual arrives that experiencing is nondual. And yet the conceptual only conceptually divides.
Cease looking for some future experience, for any special experience. This present experience will do. It’s only “experience” if there is an experiencer – both are conceptual, both are imagination. Experiencing itself contains both concepts without being divided by them.
Remain in pure being, pure experiencing – notice that a concept is required for the first idea of an experiencer or object experienced. Just notice that the entirety of the life story is a product of this imagination, this conceptual division of pure raw and present experiencing into parts.
For the first time since you were a child, be content to BE without having to tell a story about it. In this, the individual self is not present at all. Along with it, the world also does not exist. There is only what IS without any way to describe it or commit to knowledge.
The only way to get HOME is to recognize that you are already there.
Posted by Ronna on 05.25.10 1:02 pm
Thanks Randall
Posted by anatta on 05.25.10 1:09 pm
Frankly, who or what knows all of the concepts and is aware of their passing?
Ideas are fleeting, fickle things and good luck trying to hang your hat on one. When thoughts are present or not, YOU ARE. Without consciousness, they couldn’t appear. In the absence of consciousness there aren’t ideas of a thought or a thinker and there is peace.
Posted by Cat on 05.25.10 1:40 pm
Yes being unconscious (and without thought) does bring peace. I use to take sleeping pills and really loved them because it made me unconscious and brought temporary peace. Trouble was I always woke up.
Posted by anatta on 05.26.10 12:37 am
Consciousness is a temporary state – you don’t need to be rid of it, it will pass on it’s own (and does every night while in deep sleep). Only in consciousness is the appearance of anything possible. In itself, it isn’t a problematic state but taking arising ideas of how it should be and what I am as truth may make it seem so.
So what is the root of the imaginary problem? The body appearance? No, that’s pretty much just like any other arising and disappearing form. A young child, before the age of viewing things through intellectual concepts probably doesn’t distinguish between bodily sensations and “the world” – it’s one unified field. Only once the concept “I am apart from that” is accepted as reality does the feeling of limitation and incompleteness start.
Thoughts are flimsy, impermanent things but, as long as I mistake them for my identity or an accurate description of some external world, there will be a seeking to be free from their illusory (unreal) constraints.
The proof that I am not a thought is – when they cease, does being disappear also?
Do we wonder what happened before birth and what will happen after death? No one was ever born, there is no duration as time and nothing can die. There has only ever been the absolute, the omnipresent. It can be interpreted as time and space and form but really that’s just a story about it.
In functional terms, an understanding of how appearance works is perfectly fine – I can get in a car and go for a ride but, it tells me nothing about who I am. No appearance, including words, thoughts or symbols can limit or describe what is.
Sorry for all of the words. It’s kind of like taking a crap – when it’s time, it just happens.
Posted by mark on 05.26.10 8:26 am
so what is the mind meant to do, except identify patterns. It seems the mind is too big an instrument for the limited tasks required of it. How did this become so personal? This mind seems bent on either ‘understanding’ or self destruction. How to live is the question this mind has returned to after apparently ‘seeing’ the self evidence of being. Now what to do? What to do….thats the question arising here …..now. Dont answer, because it is already known. It just seems there is a cry of despair in the void. Yeah, yeah ‘until there isnt’….etc The mind at some point has to be aware of its own limitations?? And then it is what? Happy just to know its role….pleasant/unpleasant, safe/risky etc dualism, but always based on an apparent identity. Surely to deprive the mind of identity is to reduce it to the equivalent of a Macbook Pro restricted to counting cards….
Posted by gilbert on 05.26.10 10:38 am
Mind is a concept, a label. We talk about mind as if it were a ‘thing’. It is No Thing.
A young child is taking in impressions and learning without a self-center dominating the ‘scene’.
Things are absorbed naturally. 2+2=4. You don’t have to work it out in the mind. 4 oranges lay on the table. You can count them, 1,2,3,4.
You cover your eyes and I take one away and rearrange the remaining 3.
Now you tell me which one is number 2 ?
Will it be the same orange that you counted as number 2 previously?
Phenomena are manifested without labels.
The capacity of the brain is well beyond the rudimentary use for mundane activities. The old saying is, if you don’t use it, you lose it. Being limited to a robot like existence where our identity has not been investigated, leaves the brain or mind in a mechanical mode.
As soon as we start to investigate what we are, a mystery unfolds.
An openness comes into play. Any conclusion we come to will turn into another mechanical ‘process’.
SEE everything fresh and new.
The same old street you walk down is fresh and new but if you are just being aware of the mind map, you miss the freshness of this moment. See your partner fresh and new. Things open up and you realize that you don’t really know anything. Yet knowing IS happening. My true identity cannot be of the past….or the future and it certainly is NOT a prefabricated notion in the present.
Posted by fernando on 05.26.10 10:31 pm
I have a doubt:
I was taking ‘Reality’, ‘What Is’, ‘No Thing’ and ‘Seeing-Knowing’ as synonyms.
Gilbert, you say ‘Nothing appears in reality. What appears is appearance. Appearance is not reality…’
Don’t ‘concepts’ (appearances) appear in ‘Seeing-Knowing’?
I’m really confused.
Posted by gilbert on 05.27.10 12:34 am
You are REALITY.
Confusion is due to conflict between conceptual reference points in mind. Drop them all. It takes no effort to BE.
What is true is simple.
Many things are said and expressed. None of it is absolutely true.
The words appear to carry the ‘message’ and the message is “RECOGNIZE your true nature” and the cognition is already happening.
This is why when the recognition comes, there is a strong sense that “I have always been here”.
All the politics about who is clear and who is not clear and all the back and forth is seen through instantly. it is not necessary – yet until the recognition comes, it does seem that it is a necessary thing. Many efforts may appears to be made – then it is seen that there never was someone making any effort.
What I am saying will only ‘generate annoyance’ for those stuck in beliefs. ‘Someone’ who is tasting the flavor of THAT will recognize what is being said. It is for those ones – yet it is for all, just the same.
It is One Being – ONE LIFE. No matter who you are, YOU are THAT.
Posted by suki on 05.27.10 1:07 am
Confusion is a concept, nothing more than appearance. What is that, that knows confusion?
Seeing/Knowing is not conceptual. It is unmediated pure experiencing, no ‘experiencer’ just continuous uninterrupted experiencing. Whatever you know is an appearance. That which knows cannot be known, does not appear, cannot be objectified by a subject. It is non-dual. It IS. You Are.
Posted by gilbert on 05.27.10 2:21 am
Everything is appearance – it is belief in some aspects of the appearance and the rejection of other aspects of the appearance that brings confusion.
It will not help to say that confusion is just a concept. Confusion is a dis-ease, an experience in the mind and body. The ’cause’ needs to be investigated. In investigating the confusion, one can ascertain that the concepts that are in conflict with each other are indeed the cause of the dis-ease or confusion. In recognizing that the confusion is ’caused’ by the erroneous belief in the concepts, they resolve themselves naturally.
The view from the hilltop is clear. If you are in the valley of despair, you must make the required effort to raise yourself by investigating.
The hilltop clarity is quickly attained in the valley. What you are is clarity but if belief has got a hold, that clarity appears to be compromised.
Un-become what you are not and be what you are. Trying to become something other than what you are is the problem.
Investigate what you are in the moment. if you are confusion, then the investigation will bring clarity, so long as the investigation is thorough. I could explain the mechanics of it but you will SEE for yourself, if you investigate. If not, then one is left with theories and concepts.
Posted by suki on 05.27.10 3:25 am
Confusion as an experience in the mind, will pass like every other experience. What is Seeing confusion is not confused, equally when the mind is clear the Seeing is not the clarity, is this not so? Preference is for clarity in the mind, but Who can choose? This is not an issue if you know your true identity but if you falsely identify with mind and its’ contents then yes its problematic because it results in suffering(identification with false beliefs).
Posted by nour on 05.27.10 3:52 am
Dear Gilbert
I appreciate Urban Guru Cafe for it is helping seekers of No Thing. There are two kinds of discourses in this site and in all the sites of advaita through the web.In exposing, I will use the words of “an ignorant”, I wont use the words of the “realised” if we can say it like that
1) One discourse is taken by “realised” ones (I cannot say it another way : I hear you saying ” There is no one to realize and so on”) : it is said that You are That, nothing to do, nothing to attend, It is what it is, … OK that is a perspective view of the truth, clarity, oneness, …
2) Another discourse is taken by the so called seeker who has one or more glimpses of That, who sees clearly the evidence of That but he is still living as a separate entity and is searching to live That in 3D.
I guess the “realised” as to call it, has lived as a seeker before the “Aha, it is what it is”. The actual seeker is asking questions about “What to do”; teachers say that you have to stand as awareness
OK I am aware that I am awareness but this does not change anything in day to day life : there is a me here and the world and others out there. Would you please have a comment on that.
Thank you, best regards Nour
Posted by ukale1 on 05.27.10 7:21 am
Gilbert, why did you withdraw from FB? Your posts made such great reading…
(Gilbert: It just happened)
Posted by fernando on 05.27.10 9:17 am
Thank you.
Posted by gilbert on 05.27.10 9:25 am
Yes I did delete facade book. We all know what the general public do with anyone who undermines the common consensus reality. Mob mentality is more like a crazed madman than anything rational. I have a website and a new manuscript being readied. I think I share enough as it is.
And God Knows its a one way street most of the time. Avid self-centered creatures accuse me of their own sickness, just because I press a couple of buttons. Some great programs coming up on the UGC. It takes awhile to get that together and I have a day job. Enjoy FB, it is a good social tool.
Posted by gilbert on 05.27.10 9:41 am
“There a two kinds of people – those who divide the world into two kinds of people – and those who don’t” that is a quote from someone, whose name I forget, because I put them in the wrong compartment in memory.
Basically SEEING-KNOWING is happening, and this pure functioning is not in time. Whatever appears as a process is just mind stuff. The false identity is woven into that same stuff. When the false is seen through, it is all known to be a transparent appearance with NO substance. This seeing-knowing is natural – it is happening now – it is NOT a contrived stance in mind.
No one can Stand as awareness – that is just an expression.
There are NO objects – the world is an appearance.
Who will accept such a radical point of view?
It just happens to be reality. No acceptance required and no rejection possible.
We as ‘scientists’ do experiments on rats and mice.
We look for the evidence of the meaning life through a microscope and we look for our origins in deep space. The evidence is in plain view. It is a movement upon the emptiness.
All meaning is added by the intellect and is the intellect.
The monkey puzzle is in your own mind and the problem is that you don’t have a mind.
Try and show me your mind and you will see the puzzle.
Posted by godzip on 05.27.10 10:30 am
Dear Zakh, Gilber and all “that are just facing the screen right now”..Could “you” comment this phrase about “perspective” since “la mia prospettiva ora e’ diversa dalla vostra perche’ il “just this” che leggete per me ha un significato per voi “right now” no”
:
“The overall number of True Selves is but one. The same True Self in you is the True Self present in all sentient beings. But notice something. Let’s say five of us are sitting around a table, and all five of us are 100% enlightened, 100% aware of the True Self. Each of us has transcended the ego–the small self, the finite self, the self-contraction–and is alive as the One True Infinite Spirit Self. But even though we are all equally the One Self, there is at least one thing that is very different for each of us: namely, the angle we are looking at the table from. Each of us has a unique perspective on the table–indeed, on the world itself. So the One True Self is actually taking on a different perspective in each of us. Each of us has a different view of the world, even though each of us is the One True Self. And that means each of us actually has not merely a One True Self, but an infinitely unique self.
The One True Self in each of us shows up as our own radically unique self.
Paradoxically, we each experience not only a singular True Self, the same in all, but a radically unique manifestation of that Self–special and unique to each of us. Each of us has different talents, different gifts, and different unique views, and enlightenment involves discovering and honoring our differences just as much as our sameness.”
-Ken Wilber
Posted by gilbert on 05.27.10 10:48 am
There is only One SEEING.
The ONE appears as many.
Where are you seeing from?
Investigate that.
Every molecule of the apparent relative is Absolute.
The SEEING-KNOWING is NOT in the pattern that appears.
Each pattern in unique but the pattern knows and sees nothing.
The pattern is dead without that which suffuses it.
Find out what that is and the mystery solves itself.
P.S. Ken Wilber is usually clearest in the last chapter of his books. That, as I see it, is a contrived way of keeping the intellect trapped in the endless ruminations. it is a marketing ploy worthy of a publishing house. It sells books and it sells very well. Whatever needs to be pointed out can be done so in a few words. As was said already, every molecule of the relative is the Absolute. No harm done.
Posted by nopathatall on 05.27.10 12:38 pm
we are not the nucleus in the egg staring out at the effluvia and soft and hard boundaries.
rather there is awareness which manifest in a way that creates a sense of me with the me wrapped in a dream of a universe
direct perception of this is not something that needs to be chased, sought or found. nor is it something to bask in, it merely is what it is, which is the actual truth regardless of time/me based perception.
go home now, there is nothing here that needs any further attention…
Posted by Randall Friend on 05.27.10 12:57 pm
Leave behind all the beads and incense, the meditation pillows and proper postures. Focus all efforts on one thing – you own being. Whittle away any concept or idea about that being – peel back all images, all identifications with roles or accomplishments.
Notice that when the mind describes that being, it is inevitably described in terms of duality – it’s an unresolvable paradox – there is no need to look to the mind for the answer.
Notice that you are aware of thoughts or the chattering intellect as it comes and goes. Something remains still while this activity goes on. Then pause thought – the knowing remains while the thought is paused. That background knowing is present even in the absence of the intellect.
In this little exercise the difference between the mind or thought or intellect, whatever you wish to call it, and that pure knowing, becomes obvious. Then when the intellect returns to analyze it, as it always does, notice that this background knowing is still there. It is entirely outside the scope of thought. It isn’t affected by thought. Therefore it becomes obvious that thoughts aren’t the knowing. Thoughts are objective to the knowing.
Just remain with that background knowing as much as possible – notice it when the mind goes off on a rampage about something or other. Notice that background is always there, during no thought, during thoughts about dinner or angry thoughts about your day or someone who wronged you.
This isn’t about making something happen – it’s about noticing what already IS. It’s not about changing anything but about seeing how reality is interpreted – how identifications are created through inattention or ignorance of what you are. That ignorance isn’t resolved through more knowledge or beliefs, or through the acquisition of some special state. That ignorance is resolved through honesty, curiosity and openness to reality as it is.
Posted by gilbert on 05.27.10 1:18 pm
What you are is LIFE itself. How could you be anything other than THAT?
No matter what aspect of life’s expression expression is taken as a reference point, it can only ever be a transient appearance in this timeless LIFE.
You may believe that ‘you’ are seeing, talking, walking, doing all manner of things.
The fact is that that ‘you’ is being lived.
There is no choice.
Try and get out of LIFE.
You can study an ant colony and develop a very subtle philosophy about life and the interconnected-ness of LIFE.
The Libraries of the world amount to ‘dead knowledge’, ink on paper.
The only meaning any of it has is whatever you give it – and even that giving of meaning is not ‘your doing’.
Posted by Joe Cap on 05.27.10 2:07 pm
The “Common consensus Reality”.
My god, its everyone!
Facebook? Yes, but what about the news, media and leo burnett?
Whatever is happening here in this ‘reality’ is something that is beyond mind- but if entertained is very aggravating!
Posted by anatta on 05.28.10 1:48 am
Godzip, Ken Wilbur seems to have a particular knack for celebrating “ego gurus” – Adi Da and Andrew Cohen are good examples.
What does “100% enlightened” mean? Can one be 72.3% enlightened?
Enlightenment is only real if there is a separate self for such a thing to happen to. The “me” is simply an idea that appears and disappears in awareness. Can an idea be enlightened? Thoughts couldn’t appear without the light of awareness.
In the book “Enlightenment Blues” about Cohen, it is said that when he first got back to the states after Papaji gave him an “enlightenment experience” or whatever, that he told “seekers”: “You are God.”
Before long, though, as he “developed”, there became more and more that one must do and sacrifice to achieve that special state. He also became more and more of an abusive a-hole which was, of course, overlooked because he was the “special” one.
Same thing with Adi Da – to hear him tell it, he was God’s gift to creation (more advanced than Jesus and Buddha, of course). Got his book “The Knee of Listening” at a book sale for 10 cents. In it, it shows him in all kinds of remarkable costumes, on a pedistal or platform carried by servants with his followers prostrating themselves before him – is this what someone who has seen through the ego looks like? His claim was that people would come to be closer to the divine through devotion to him. BTW – this all happened on his own, little, personal island paradise where he was “God”. He had his worshipers so convinced of his greatness that they watched his body for days after he died, expecting him to miraculously raise himself from the dead.
If you’d like a good laugh, look up Adi Da on youtube. Seekers will worship any idiot in a gorilla suit who claim that they are “enlightened”.
(Ed: Amusing as these accounts may be, we do attempt not to ‘name’ gurus and teachers in a negative sense. it is better to keep it limited to what they say. Otherwise these comment pages turn into a battle field. I know that I mentioned Ken Wilber and that probably set this off and running. So, let’s keep it clean, if we can, please.)
Posted by confused on 05.28.10 7:05 am
William James, father of American psychology, tells of meeting an old lady who told him the Earth rested on the back of a huge turtle. “But, my dear lady”, Professor James asked, as politely as possible, “what holds up the turtle?” “Ah”, she said, “that’s easy. He is standing on the back of another turtle.” “Oh, I see”, said Professor James, still being polite. “But would you be so good as to tell me what holds up the second turtle?” “It’s no use, Professor”, said the old lady, realizing he was trying to lead her into a logical trap. “It’s turtles-turtles-turtles, all the way!”
Concepts are not based on reality, they are based on other concepts. Attempting to find truth with concepts is a lost cause. Give it up!
(Editor: I think you will find that it was Bertrand Russell, not William James – it matter little anyway)
Posted by Ronna on 05.28.10 7:30 am
Thanks for the smile and the clear pointer.
Posted by ukale1 on 05.28.10 7:58 am
Well, I can understand your perspective…mob mentality will do whatever it can to undermine what’s true. Anything ‘free’ will rarely attract the mob mentality. So do what you have to do…we’ll just miss your posts…
About the social tool bit…I am not so sure; its just rhetoric and boring for the most part…
Posted by nopathatall on 05.28.10 11:39 am
let’s net this out
no need or purpose to search
nothing real to find
awareness is
anything else is an appearance
arising and disapearing
ok
cool
Posted by gilbert on 05.29.10 12:24 am
There is an apparent radical difference between what is usually offered up as a ‘teaching’ and what is basically being offered here and on the Urban Guru Cafe. This website is not a separate or particular ‘thing’ with any attributes of it’s own. It is merely a vehicle.
What I am getting at is that the usual ‘teachings’ offer an emphasis on a way to MAKE a better ME…..which is merely the vulnerable adjusts of the appearance. It appears to be useful when things are out of kilter. The idea is to FIX the me…..to make you feel GOOD about yourself. That is NOT what is on offer here or on the UGC. There may be sprinklings of it here and there, but in the main the pointing is just direct – and even quite confronting at times. What is on offer is to go beyond the turbulence of all dualistic notions. To SEE what is true and to know what is false and not to mix the two apparent qualities. Un-contrived seeing-knowing is already happening. If you are coming from mind, then there will be a tossing back and forth, and so confusion will reign. The bias point is ‘me’….a fiction.
What is being pointed to here on this site and in it’s programs is that there is no me with any substance. It is a mere IDEA…..and that idea began at around the age or 2 1/2 when language was learned and the sense of me came into play. The idea of me or I in itself is harmless. It is what is added to it that brings conflict in mind. Identity and Boundaries are actually ephemeral. They do not actually exist in Oneness.
‘Me’ and ‘other than me’ is the basis of the sense of separation. Built upon that IDEA are ephemeral notions of all the experiences and events which have consistently been referred to that ‘me’ of memory – and a STORY has been ‘stored’ and has built up – it has been believed in. It is believed in only because it has not been investigated.
So, this sense of separation is ONLY and IDEA.
Cutting through that IDEA is simple – and yet it may appear to be the most difficult ‘thing’ one will ever ‘do’.
It may also be recognized quite easily.
The resistance to the clear investigation is the ‘me’ and all its accumulated investments.
Belief is not the actual.
Posted by Sandy Jones on 05.29.10 3:44 am
I’ve always loved this, it’s from some of William Samuel’s unpublished papers. It fits in here, and I think many of you will like this too:
“Truth is not a lifting up to the Light at all. It is much more a rapid stripping away of the mortal shell, leaving the Real exposed. It is an uncovering of the Light of Identity which has been here as ‘us’ all the while. It is the return of sensitivity in all its aspects. It is the Child uncovered again, stripped of all intellectual veneers, its worldly vestures ripped away. Without doubt this work appears to uncover the Child we are and we stand naked, exposed, defenseless, hypersensitive, our perception extremely acute again.”
And one more thing about the ‘guru’ stuff—The thing I loved about William is that he never, ever put himself up as a ‘teacher’or above others—I SO appreciated that humble honesty with the Truth.
“It is difficult enough already for the few of us on earth who have been given the task of waging worldwide battle against the power of belief. Most tenacious among those beliefs is the insanity that one must be either a leader or a follower. Allness leads what? Singleness follows whom? The Seminal Idea discloses Identity to be nothing less than the Ineffable’s very own Self-awareness! Every grain of sand and star in the heavens shouts the proof of this fact. Every flower that blooms and wild birds that fly verifies the changelessness of this fact. When the story is told properly–and listened to as a child listens–the individual awakens to dominion, to his birthright, his heritage from the beginning, and there is no more need of teachers.” William Samuel
And this one from Lao Tzu:
“Whoever thinks he can lead a single soul to Light has already condemned his world. But whoever sees Light as all, therefore no one guilty of darkness, guides the ten thousand galaxies on their course.”
Posted by suki on 05.29.10 4:38 am
“Before the idea “I Am” sprouted, you are, but you don’t know you
are. Subsequent to that there have been many happenings with which you
have started decorating yourself. You try to derive the meaning of
yourself out of subsequent words, happenings, and the meaning of
words … that is not you … give it up. You are prior to the idea “I Am.”
Camp yourself there, prior to the words “I Am.”
~Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj – from the book “Prior to Consciousness”
Posted by Ronna on 05.29.10 9:22 am
The UGC Second Life meeting last night at 7:00 pm pacific time with Randall Friend was very good. Smiling.
Editor: Yes, thanks Ronna for the reminder. For anyone interested in attending the Second Life meetings, we encourage you to go along. It is an excellent medium for those who are in remote places, to attend a ‘meeting’ and ask questions. It is easy to download and set up the second life software and once you know the basics…and ‘you’ get into the virtual room and sit down……..you can simply listen to the meeting or join in.
Posted by godzip on 05.29.10 12:28 pm
Ok
there is no One out there
no human being from different part of the world writing words on a keyboard
just this
color, sensation etc
and the feeling of writing on a keyboard
there is only this no One else with this , no plurals needed but artificial mental construtted.
Can Some no One demostrate that they actualy exist ? It is quite lonely here :€
“e alla fine non capite neanche l italiano ! E quindi siete consapevoli della vostra ignoranza ma non della mia”
quite
Posted by Cat on 05.29.10 1:41 pm
‘It is believed in only because it has not been investigated.’
Could you describe this investigation?
Posted by Cat on 05.29.10 1:46 pm
Yes I agree about the Second Life meeting. Randall Friend is very clear. He seems very open to clarifying any relevant questions you may have.
Posted by gilbert on 05.29.10 1:56 pm
It can be noted that this is not a game. Mind games will only bring frustration and feelings of fabricated superiority or inferiority.
This is not a game. If you dabble in this without a genuine interest, it is most likely to send you around the bend and up ‘shit creek’, in a barbwire canoe, without a paddle. I know several folks who are quite deranged and who think they ‘got it’, yet they are obviously deluded.
They retire from the confrontational conditions of ordinary life, simply because their ‘knowledge’ is dead knowledge, all made from a superior attitude which often changes into a sense of helplessness.
History repeats itself. Nothing new can come from the mind of memory.
What can be done? All that can be done is to POINT at what is true.
Posted by godzip on 05.29.10 6:31 pm
Gilbert
ok this THIS is not “lila”.
this THIS is just a “cafe”
but how you can judge/discriminate folks that are “quite deranged and are obviously deluded “and not write/be from a “superior” attitude?
Could be THIS just witnessing (or be) folks(or human being) that seems to transfer sense of helplessness?
I (we) am (are) not just mind, but if this is just THIS, also mind games is just this. Probably I (we) seem just to be inclined in “advaita mind games” instead of “business games”?
What else are these comments that are available in this site?
no one writing to no one that they they got it but they can not actualy stated and share it with no one else.
knowing is beyond but they keep sharing with “natural thought based on unnatural letters and words”
if we stay with just what it is, there is no you, just THIS, and in this THIS there are a “named” screen, keyboard, table , window etc, but definitively there is no you and no one out there.
No human being, just unnatural letters words that if English is known it is understood by me and you and also if it is italian is understood by me but
1) “difficilmente compreso da te perche’ non sai l’italiano”
so you, that actualy are not able to demostrate that exist to this presence, are able to register/witness/knowing all that appear on the screen 100% clearly (like me and all the deluded and not deluded folks) but with 0% clue about phrase 1)
So you just can relax on your awareness and I can relax in mind but you miss pointer 1)
“what’s wrong with this moment if you do not think about it?” nothing you are just not anymore a 20th century human being
“what’s wrong with this moment if you do not feel about it?”
nothing you are just not anymore a prehistorical human being
“what’s wrong with this moment if you do not sense about it?”
nothing you are just not anymore human
So I can relax in the background knowing of what is before and just stop the “cafe” right before the big bang and be entertained by “nothing”.
Posted by gilbert on 05.29.10 11:50 pm
It is all mind. What is there that is not mind?
There are subtle hooks thrown into the pond every now and then.
The bait is alluring for the ‘me’ of belief.
If you have seen through the ‘me’ then who is concerned about comments?
If you have not seen through the ‘me’, then get on with seeing through it.
If you detect ‘someone here’ making judgments and making accusations, maybe one could look at who is taking delivery of such comments?
There is no point in pretending to know.
Frankly, I see a lot of folks pretending to have ‘got it’ and the fact is there is no one who EVER got it.
Whatever drags you back into the drama of being a ‘person’ is a gift, a gift that touches the very thing that needs to be investigated.
ME.
There are thousands of devotees of gurus and teachers who are on a treadmill, going nowhere, simply because the one who they believe is totally clear is NOT. Those gurus are feeding the seekers with concepts of MAKING a better ME. Very well respected gurus do this and it is obvious to those who can SEE. It is all unnecessary. We don’t name these Gurus because egos get very upset.
The proof of it all is that decades go by without any sign of true relief from seeking. The pointing when it is direct can be heard quite quickly, if one is open to it. The ME has no interest in stepping aside, to allow the true essence a chance to expand.
Any teacher or Guru who allows a seeker to bow down to them is just a sideshow alley entertainer, in my estimation.
if there is transmission, then bloody well transmit it and let these seeker go free. What is the delay about?
Purifying nonsense just stinks of slavery to a concept. The ESSENCE of everyone is already PURE.
It only needs to be recognized. So every concept that is handed out about some method or practice that one must do is an unnecessary directive. Better to point directly and drop the stories about purification. It is just nonsense.
Every major religion has a clean and clear ‘heart text’ and then it has been diluted and added to with all kinds on nonsense by ‘well meaning individuals’ who distort the original message. It has happened down through all the ages.
The Heart Essence of the message is simple.
Even though much distortion happens, no harm has happened to anyone.
The ONE is self realizing just as it is in this moment – just as it is. Who has a problem?
If there is a problem then it must be so for a ‘me’. Investigate that ‘me’ and see if it is real.
This is not even a Cafe. It is a vehicle.
it is an impossible sharing of ‘stuff’.
There is nothing to share – What is necessary is a recognition.
WHATEVER appears to bring that recognition is totally valid in the appearance.
When the frustration reaches its peak, there is a new possibility to cast aside old beliefs and take a fresh look, without the conditioned mind. SEEING is happening. The essence of ALL insights is Naked Seeing. Drop all your concepts and SEE.
In that SEEING there is no ‘me’.
It is just seeing.
Posted by Cat on 05.30.10 5:16 am
It’s like Paul Hedderman says it is just an invitation. If there is a sincere wish to know the reality of being then listen up. The crux of the matter is who wants to know. There is no way to describe it without duality. Look past the clear pointers that are given here and see in your direct experience. That is the point.