Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
88. Paul Hedderman – No Story to tell.
Posted on 07.22.10 9:47AM under Paul Hedderman
Paul worked with many ‘in recovery’. Here we explore Paul’s gift of talking about Non Duality, if we can call it that. Paul’s enthusiastic sharing is both light and cutting to the core of the ‘issues’ faced by the seeker. Paul’s website Here.
Music includes: Nubreed, Mose Allison, Rolf Harris, The Stranglers, The Who, Bob Brozman and an exclusive cut of The Beatles with Heather Nova.
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Posted by Joe Cap on 07.22.10 11:49 am
I’ve been reading a lot of crap lately from some advaita zealot like people that stress how important it is to have ‘devotion’ and how long it takes, being in the presence of a guru, meditation and waiting, blah blah blah…. So it’s nice to hear Paul put it simple and strip away the cult-like jargon.
It’s also nice to hear Areti.
Posted by carlodelysid on 07.22.10 12:25 pm
It’s all cult like jargon. A bunch of crap. But damn tasty to us. A really a great podcast for me all in all. Welcome back Areti, even if only for this show. Thanks…. all you folks.
Posted by anatta on 07.22.10 1:14 pm
Lee, to continue the discussion from the last thread – what are you right now?
Also, what is it that you want to know? In deep sleep, the question has no meaning so it is completely negated in the absence of a conceptual “me” to ask it.
Posted by Dogribb on 07.22.10 2:33 pm
Repetition is helpful as Paul says.I’m glad to see you revisit him.His tireless pointing,enthusiastic attitude and his infectious laughter are most welcome
The Buddhist labors strenuously to rise over the opposites;the Daoist dissolves them into a good horse laugh.
Posted by Ronna on 07.22.10 3:29 pm
So very, very happy to hear Areti once again
Thanks Paul your pointing and humour as always is wonderful
Posted by Lee on 07.23.10 5:15 am
Hi Anatta
You may have seen my latest comments in the previous thread.
I’m coming to the conclusion that ‘we’ can only be an authority on Now!
Right Now, deep sleep is a conceptual place. The question; ‘am I aware in deep sleep’ should perhaps be (as ridiculous as it sounds) answered at that time – it’s the only authentic place to answer from.
Posted by confused on 07.23.10 11:19 am
I always love listening to Paul talk – he’s got a very unique way of approaching this subject – the most practical of any speaker I have heard. For those that also enjoy him I encourage you to check out the videos and downloads on his website: http://www.zenbitchslap.com. thanks paul and areti for the video.
Posted by fernando on 07.24.10 10:27 am
Everything happens in Awareness, not in ‘my’ Awareness or ‘your’ Awareness.
The sense that it happens in ‘your’ or ‘my’ Awareness is intermitent and happens in Awareness too.
There is only ONE Awareness.
PS. Nice to hear Areti again. The interview with Paul is great.
Posted by anatta on 07.24.10 3:14 pm
No fernando, it’s MY awareness.
Just kidding… sounds kind of silly, eh?
Posted by fernando on 07.24.10 7:30 pm
Hi Anata,
Yeah, it sounds kind of silly, ‘my’, ‘your’ awareness… he he
May be ‘Seeing is impersonal. There is no one seeing’ is better.
Posted by claudia on 07.25.10 1:42 am
“What is seeing, is what you are looking for. The ‘what is seeing’ gets transferred or interpreted through the identification with the mental process, through what we call a ‘you’, and turns it into a ‘what is looking’…It is just a matter of interpretation…
One could even say, what is seeing is appearing AS you looking for… You don’t have to look for it in a special way, because every moment you are looking for, is the revelation of what is seeing as you. It is the ‘you looking’ that makes it something other than seein.”
Paul Hedderman
Posted by fernando on 07.26.10 4:57 am
There is no enlightened being, no ignorant being, no teacher, no disciple, no seeker, no finder, no Creator, no creature, no father, no mother, no son, no daugther, no ‘me’, no ‘you’…
No one writes these lines. No one reads them.
Posted by ralph on 07.26.10 10:05 am
” There is no enlightened being, no ignorant being, no teacher, no disciple, no seeker, no finder, no Creator, no creature, no father, no mother, no son, no daugther, no ‘me’, no ‘you’…
No one writes these lines. No one reads them. ”
Who just said that ? … and am I not reading this ?
Posted by fernando on 07.26.10 10:35 am
No one said that.
You are not reading this.
Saying happens. Reading happens.
There is no say-er. There is no reader.
Posted by gilbert on 07.26.10 11:03 am
What is true is naturally confronting to all erroneous beliefs.
What is true appears to be threatening to the believed in identity.
No one can force anyone to investigate the believed in identity.
Buddha investigated it and Buddhism was born from that realization. Buddhism is not a means to realize oneself. In fact Buddhism is the anti-thesis of what Buddha discovered. Buddhism is everything but what Buddha discovered. Who wants to accept such ‘pointers’. Not a Buddhist. Christianity is the anti-thesis of what Jesus pointed to.
Take a look. The attitude of all Buddhists and Christians is that their ‘head of state’, Buddha or Christ are the only ones to know.
Such denial of the simplicity of ordinary ‘knowing’, in this immediate moment, is nothing but a fictional mind construct, a limitation ‘placed’ by the mind through erroneous belief, upon the mind. It is all fictional limitations that have no substance. Such madness is passed off as ‘religion’ and millions are devoted to a fiction.
It is totally laughable. You will notice that Paul laughs a lot. He can also be very compassionate when the need arises.
Posted by ralph on 07.26.10 2:49 pm
” There is no say-er. There is no reader.”
… and yet there is a sayer and a reader, is it possible that they are both right? The human role plays a big factor in all this, is it not?
I sense a response coming.
Posted by fernando on 07.26.10 10:53 pm
If there is a say-er (or reader or sufferer or whatever) then… there is a seeker, and if there is a seeker then there is a finder, and if there is a finder, then there is an enlightenment event, and if there is an enlightenment event, then there is TIME between the ‘seeking state’ and the ‘finding state’, BUT… there is only NOW!
‘There is NO duality in Non Duality’ (NO two ways in this).
Posted by claudia on 07.27.10 2:22 am
Ralph: there appears to be an individual say-er or read-er – but the fact is, that there is no separate sayer or reader from the activity of saying or reading, which are just happening. It is only the belief in a separate “me” that makes it appear as “you saying” or “you reading”. This can’t be grasped intelectually, because the one who wants to undertsand this is also only an appearance in thought. Just have a close look at what is going on. For instancee, you could be washing the dishes or brushing your teeth or driving a car, whilst “your” thoughts are engaged with something else (in fact, mind is ALWAYS engaged with what is not). So who is washing the dishes, brushing the teeth, driving the car? Who is breathing, walking, digesting, talking, reading? All is happening spontaneously, out of the blue, for no down-trackable reason. When it is seen, that there is no individual doer, everything becomes clear and obvious and all the questions dissolve, because the one who asks the questions and the questions are seen as not separate. The root problem is the believed in separate “me” and the assumption that this “me” can (do something to) “get it”. Investigate this “me” – or this “black hole around all the thoughts whirl around”, as Paul calls the self-centerdness – has it actually a separate existence? can you draw a line around it and pin it down? or is just all a story in the mind, appearing and disappearing with no one having control over it…
Posted by ralph on 07.27.10 3:57 am
Claudia, just by you responding confirms that the human role plays a big factor in all this. What you are discribing is “nothingness” that lacks compassion and aliveness because you negate the human side of it and is why one is left feeling empty and void instead. Compassion and Alivness arises when you explore your human side, not outside of it or by negating it by simply saying it does not exist.
In short, you are all of it !! (appearances included).
Posted by claudia on 07.27.10 4:39 am
Who is negating the “human factor”? Why make that distinction? Whether compassion arises or not, whether aliveness is felt or not, who has control over it? I am (and so are you) Life itself, the source of all appearences, and therefore I can’t know myself. Whatever is known can only be an appearance – no matter what you call it. “Aliveness”, for example, could you describe what that is? And what is this emptiness and void you feel? It can only be in relation to a “me”, a story in the mind. When the energy invested in thought, and the fixation on the story of me is released, there is this space like awareness, where everything is revealed as it is: life as a whole manifesting, simultaneously in its most apalling and most compassionate ways, with no center and no control, timelessly here and now, and without need of interpretation or explanation (which also just happens – it is not a “you” who does it). To quote Paul again (I recommend you whatch his videos on his website): “We tend to react to what is not, instead of responding to what is”.
Posted by fernando on 07.27.10 5:58 am
There is just THIS, and THIS has no parts. It is WHOLE. There is no 20% or 50% THIS.
THIS is One Solid Block of Reality, without fissures.
Drop words and SEE.
Where is ‘humanity’ or ‘human rol’ or ‘compassion’ or ‘aliveness’ if you drop words?
What is left if you drop words?
Only wordless THIS.
Posted by confused on 07.27.10 6:45 am
Just some thoughts…a lot of the posts on this site and many I’ve posted myself stink of over-simplified word-play and seem to hold no pragmatic value. After all, the whole point of this non-duality thing is the search for happiness. In fact, thats the goal of all spirituality, and when you get right down to it, every action in life lies with the same underlying motivation – maximize pleasure, avoid pain. A lot of times I feel as though this non-dual philosophy is just a substanceless mind-game, used and abused by the “ego” or whatever you wanna call it. A “one-up-manship-game of who can out-conceptualize. Something that Paul brings attention to and I feel has extreme relavance and applicability to daily life is to stop playing God. Life lives itself, as others have pointed to on numerous occasions. There is no effort needed to breathe, eat, or piss. Daily life has been so saturated with success, attainment, and effort that the natural flow of things has become exceedingly encumbered. My point is, when you stop trying to hold onto control of every aspect of your life, and in turn become more accepting, it becomes very apparent that there is no real effort needed to be happy. Happiness is already our natural state. It is the resistance to things as they are (aka LIFE) that creates this suffering. Hope everone is having a good day. Peace
Posted by ralph on 07.27.10 10:50 am
Well said, confused.
Posted by claudia on 07.27.10 11:40 am
Yes, that’s right. That comes from reading too much of Gilbert’s stuff, ha ha – one adquires this advaita slang. And one also knows. Deep down, one knows, that it is false… Thanks for pointing this out, confused… (I guess, the human factor is restored with this?)
Posted by max on 07.27.10 3:16 pm
Who cares? Obviously not me
play on…
Posted by fernando on 07.28.10 12:21 am
Great words (Love, Compassion, Humanity etc etc) hide – not reveal – the absolute SIMPLICITY of ‘what is’.
Isn’t it obvious that they are ALL concepts?
Posted by Lawrence on 07.28.10 8:49 pm
A leaky cap… oops, sorry!
Posted by mark on 07.29.10 3:48 am
Confused says ‘After all, the whole point of this non-duality thing is the search for happiness.’
No. The whole point is to end the search for happiness. And to be content with what is appearing, knowing that it is all appearance and it will all pass. Behind the appearing and disappearing remains YOU. Impersonal, unidentified and totally perfect.
Posted by Ronna on 07.29.10 7:27 am
Mark, there is no one to be content or not content
Posted by Tim on 07.29.10 8:36 am
I would just say that it’s about reality.
Posted by claudia on 07.29.10 12:24 pm
It doesn’t matter how it is expressed. When mind (the realm of concepts) is seen for what it is: hollow interpretations imposed on this, which is by no means describable and can never be grasped by the mind – then you can’t be fooled anymore by words.
Posted by gilbert on 07.29.10 3:16 pm
Reality IS.
Anything ‘about’ reality is just conceptualizing.
Knowing is silent and wordless. Words may be expressed from that knowing, without the knowing disappearing into identified states of mind. Everything is consciousness – it seems that some are conscious of the appearance being an appearance and there are those who belief in the appearance as if it were reality.
Endless talk about it can appear to be quite convoluted.
A new program will be appearing next week…if not before.
Posted by anatta on 07.29.10 11:02 pm
Yeah, oneness is pure simplicity. Words always make it seem more complicated than it is because words seem to describe separate “things” but there is only that – no divisions, no limitations, all that is.
Posted by paul on 07.30.10 1:43 am
Really looking forward to the next program, I think thats going to be the one that does is it for me!!!! Woohoo Goodbye me, hello no-me.
Posted by Jacob on 07.31.10 4:25 am
So its totally possible for a 33 year habit patteren with all its other habit patterens to be seen through once and for all and to never be fooled by them again. this is 100% yeah it can be done, couse dam it man it seems near impossibe to see this possibility over hear. be so sweet if Bob or Guru-G lived round the corner. Thing is its not like I can leave it alone , walk away from it , its worse than heroine man least you get a deasent high, with this its bugger all . Its got me good and propa. people talk of spiritual experiances , glimpses of oneness, unconditional love. closest ive come to any spiritual expereince is sitting on the lavy taking a shit. apooligies for the crap just had to voice some frustration. On a positve note this site is soooo sweet hat off to you amegos ,and a big Kiss X
Posted by gilbert on 07.31.10 1:32 pm
Consciousness IS.
As nothing it is stillness, emptiness – not a dead thing – it is LIFE itself – the potential of all.
As a movement it appears to create the body and the world.
As a concept of identity, identification appears as a reflection in matter….and it seems that the matter can see, hear taste, touch, walk and talk. It is ALL appearance. Even the eyes, which are the apparent instruments of seeing are actually an appearance only.
The eyes cannot see. The ears cannot hear.
Frustration appears because we try to grasp it with a concept.
It cannot be done.
Many speak of experiences. ALL experiences come and go.
EXPERIENCING is unceasing.
Trace the concept of ‘me’ to the source of its arising.
If it is real then you will no doubt find it.
It cannot be found but you cannot take anyone’s word for that.
You have to SEE it for yourself.
If you cannot find a ‘me’, then what can all the stories about me stick to?
It is all concepts.
Without words there is no problem.
Reality is right here, right now.
Now is all there is.
Nothing separates this clear and present awareness.
Thoughts appear to bring separation but it is not so.
As Bob says: “What is wrong with right now, if you don’t think about it?”
You have to pause a thought to see. In that clear seeing, everything is clear and obvious, without the apparent obscurations of thought.
What more do you want?
Posted by Joe Cap on 07.31.10 2:01 pm
Jacob,
Paul H always says “don’t use this stuff to put out a fire”.
Posted by shunyam56 on 08.03.10 5:53 am
“What is wrong with right now, if you don’t think about it?”…Yes, it is, I love too much your song Gilbert on youtube. This is “the Gilbert” that I love and I want to say thank you, for what you are, here in UGC, there in FB…where it seem many folks want to fight and to delete each other…I don’t understand too much, anyway all sounds good, and you are completely right: “Without words there is not problem.” Cheers.