Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
91. Rupert Spira – It is Awareness
Posted on 08.23.10 1:05PM under Rupert Spira
Rupert Spira is sharp and clear. No need to believe anything. See for yourself. Other interviews with Rupert appear in earlier programs on the UGC.
Rupert’s website is HERE.
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Posted by piersede on 08.24.10 4:02 am
Fantastic, clear pointing. Truly superb and, as you say, so clear it doesn’t leave much to be said. Thanks to UGC and Rupert both.
Posted by mark on 08.24.10 8:28 am
Rupert Spira – the advaita surgeon. Wielding his scalpel of enquiry. Clean, sharp and pointed; perfect for cutting away the hard-to-get-at fleshy habits of mind. Good stuff. Thanks.
Posted by Ekhmm on 08.24.10 9:13 pm
@Anatta
“Ekhmm, every sensation, thought, feeling, perception arises in the open field of awareness and owes it’s appearance to it. The “body”, “mind” and “feelings” are only fickle appearances – your true nature won’t be found by studying or trying to control these “things”. Look at what is always present in your experience.”
When i’m trying to LOOK AT what is always present i am doing it by manipulate those appearances, all doing is within ilussion or in apparent world/body/mind. If awareness haven’t done anything at all ever, how this awareness could make a choice to see that it is the core of being. Looking at seems to be done by mind.
I think that it has to happen something i call “collapse of me” but me cannot do it, it could only happen by itself.
Posted by max on 08.25.10 1:18 am
If you try to understand the unmanifested wtih the mind, you at once go beyond the mind, like when you stir the fire with a wooden stick, you burn the stick. Use the mind to investigate the manifested. Be like the chick that pecks at the shell. Speculating about life outside the shell would have been of little use to it, but pecking at the shell breaks the shell from within and liberates the chick. Similarly, break the mind from within by investigation and exposure of its contradictions and absurdities.
- Nisargadatta
Posted by fernando on 08.25.10 2:07 am
Just like zooming into a fractal pattern, the same pattern unfolds over and over.
It is joyous and entertaining, terrifying and so threatening, until one recognizes the basic pattern is unchanging.
No matter which way you turn, the same pattern is unfolding in billions of ‘ways’.
The pattern is all you know of. There is no quality of ‘knowing’ in the pattern itself.
The ‘apparent movement’ of the fractal pattern adds the animated quality.
One Essence animates every particle of the pattern without exception.
The activity of knowing is never enhanced or diminished by the ‘apparent’ movement of the pattern. No Thing appears as every thing.
The knowing itself remains unchanged by so-called ‘events’, it is clear and empty of all content.
Everything ‘appears’ in the seeing.
The natural wordless state of pure being is present in all – is all.
This clear and immaculate light of consciousness is the light by which you see and know.
(Posted by gilbert on 05.05.09 10:32 am)
Posted by Ekhmm on 08.25.10 2:56 am
Ok, well there is obviously seeing/knowing, i can say that it is impersonal, that it is aways the same. I don’t know if this seeing is in deep sleep because of absense of everything in that state but so what? The sense of separation is still here, I feel rather like this person i seems to be, not like this seeing that encompases everything. The me which i FEEL i am is here and now and it would be nothing wrong with it except that there is suffering here and i feel like i am in this big world and fight for survival and spiritual seeking is concequence of that feeling.
Posted by fernando on 08.25.10 4:10 am
What you really are is NOT an ‘object’.
That ‘sense of separation’ is an ‘object’. It’s something that APPEARS in what you really are (Seeing-Knowing).
What you really are is in-visible, form-less, limit-less, UN-‘object’ifiable.
What you THINK you are (that ‘sense of separation’) is thoughts, images, the ‘me’ story, that ‘sense of separation’. This ‘object’ which you THINK you are can’t do anything. It’s like your image in a mirror. That image is impotent.
Now, what SEES that impotent image?
What you REALLY are.
Posted by Mike in SF on 08.25.10 4:12 am
Great episode. Rupert has a great voice, and I love the directness of the pointing. Thanks.
Posted by anatta on 08.25.10 5:19 am
Ekhmm, the most obvious aspect of any experience is consciousness/awareness. This is not a thing that can be “seen” but, none the less, it must be there for anything to appear.
Suffering happens because the abstractions of thought are taken to be reality. The first abstraction is the idea of a “me”. With this, arises the idea of “not me” – other people, the world, god, etc. While considered reality, these concepts create a feeling of limitation/separation. When they are seen to be merely thoughts arising in boundless awareness, it is realized that one was never apart. This process is not controlled by an ego or will – it is also only the selfless appearance of being.
If we look for ourselves, is life compartmentalized into a bunch of separate little boxes? Are there cartoonish black lines between everything? No – it is one unitary movement. ALL ideas of duality are false. We get labelling confused with seeing and think that our description of a universe is real. The description is never “the thing”. Oneness is way too simple and present to ever need description.
The thoughts and forms of appearance come and go. What you really are does not. While all forms are ever seemingly morphing, being is perfectly stable and present in the timeless NOW.
Posted by fernando on 08.26.10 1:52 am
But what is this body/mind/world that is appearing as Presence? We explore experience more deeply again and find that it is this very Presence itself that takes the shape of the body/mind/world.
Knowing Presence takes the shape of thinking and appears as the mind. It takes the shape of sensing and appears as the body. It takes the shape of perceiving and appears as the world, but never for a moment does it actually become anything other than itself.
At this stage we not only know but FEEL that Presence or Consciousness is all there is. It could be formulated as, ‘I, Consciousness, am everything.’ At the same time we recognise that this has in fact always been the case although it seemed not to be known previously.
So we have moved from a position in which we thought and felt that ‘I’ am something (a body/mind) to a position in which we recognised our true nature of Knowing and Being (Presence) and which we expressed as ‘I, Consciousness, am nothing.’ And we finally come to the feeling/understanding that I, Consciousness, am not just the witness, the knower or experiencer of all things, but am also simultaneously their substance. In other words, ‘I, Consciousness am everything.’
Even this is to say too much, for what is this ‘everything’ that is referred to? Lan-guage collapses here. Instead of saying ‘Consciousness is all,’ we should say just ‘Consciousness is.’ But then what is this Consciousness that is being framed… again it is to say too much.
To summarize we move from ‘I am something’ to ‘I am nothing,’ from ‘I am nothing’ to ‘I am everything’ and from ‘I am everything to ‘I, I, I…’
We fall silent here.
(Rupert Spira – Questions & Answers)
Posted by Urban Guru Cafe Announcements on 08.27.10 9:12 am
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Posted by Joe Cap on 08.28.10 2:20 am
i like when Randall says “if someone were to take away all of our words we wouldn’t know anything”. It’s another pointer that challenges assumed reality by taking a look at how everything gets labeled, and then we seem to go from there. Try putting into words the experience eating pizza or having an orgasm. Usually the verbal response to both is “Oooh” and “Mmmmm” . This pointer can dig deeper until i see just how limited and imaginary a labeled reality is.
I like all sorts of pointers in these podcasts.
The subtle humor in the editing at times is hilarious as well. I’ve noticed that many of these ‘pointer people’ are loaded with personality.
Posted by suki on 08.28.10 4:26 am
There is no answer to ‘Why’ questions. Why questions are fundamentally unanswerable. We accept responses which are NOT answers to the questions!
There is NO answer, there is NO why! everything arises spontaneously in awareness. The constantly asking of why, is simply the minds attempt at grasping for control. The mind settles for non-answers and maintains its’ illusion of control, rather than recognize it has no answers and no control. ~ paraphrasing David Carse, from program 75 ‘Perfect, Brilliant, Stillness’ – start:7:43 – end:9:35
Thought this segment may be worth considering.
Thanks, Suki
Posted by ralph on 08.28.10 9:39 am
to end the questions ….. end the questioner.
Posted by confused on 08.28.10 9:56 am
Can’t do it my man. There is no questioner to begin with.
That pointer from David Carse is spot on – nice find Suki. For some reason it reminded me of the Thinker and the Prover from the book Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson. That book is seriously awesome and I think a great place to start in sifting through the deluded belief system called the mind.
Posted by suki on 08.28.10 10:31 am
“”Is”, “is.” “is”—the idiocy of the word haunts me. If it were abolished, human thought might begin to make sense. I don’t know what anything “is”; I only know how it seems to me at this moment.”
~ Robert Anton Wilson
Interesting cat for sure. References to his name have come up alot in my own research, was reading a little about him the other day in wikipedia. He draws from a lot of sources. I don’t read that much now, but maybe during winter season I’ll check this book out.
Regards, Suki
Posted by gilbert on 08.31.10 12:35 am
How many of you are there? The mind is dualistic – why? Because the mind compares ‘this with that’, and mind is nothing but ideas, thoughts, images and memories. The mind CANNOT decide to settle for anything in its apparent preferences or in fact. The mind is basically thought, and thought CANNOT see or know anything. It cannot choose? It is mechanical. The implication of a choice maker is based on a concept of their being a choice maker. Investigate and SEE if there is such a thing. Is there actually any such thing as a ‘me’ apart from thought?
There is only one seeing happening.
The thought ‘I see’ CANNOT see. It is as simple as that. Seeing is happening – knowing is happening. What the mind appears to ‘do’ with seeing or knowing, is to seemingly create a ‘seer’ or a ‘thinker’, a ‘doer’ and a ‘believer’ etc. Subject and object are conceptual ‘forms’.
Where is there a problem, without a thought or idea, the belief about there being a problem? This is not a trifling question.
Who has a problem? Who is the owner of a thought or a problem?
There is a subtle implication in many ‘teachings’ and it often implies that the mind is an enemy or that it has some power of itself.
Without awareness, nothing can appear to happen at all. Without the life force, the body cannot see or hear and it cannot even move one finger.
These factors should point directly at what you truly are.
Recognition happens beyond the limits of language and dualistic mind.
There is no entity in the simplicity of recognizing what I am.
That is worth repeating – There is no entity in the simplicity of recognizing what I am. It is silent and wordless. It is naked ‘knowing’.
Posted by anatta on 08.31.10 2:47 am
Words can never nail this down. That is why there are so many attempted descriptions, pointers at it. No matter how many words are said or unsaid, they arise in the uncloudable clarity of being. They and every other “thing” are only that, appearing as form.
Conceptual descriptions are often mistaken for reality but the essential is always present, even when appearing as a confused human being.
Posted by confused on 09.03.10 7:22 am
I really enjoyed this podcast, thanks UGC and Rupert.
Apparently everyone’s been enlightened? This place is dead.
Posted by Jackson on 09.03.10 8:44 am
Dear All,
God did not create the universe!!!!!
Love, Stephen Hawking
Posted by Jacob on 09.03.10 11:06 pm
Eccept ME! whats the trick
Posted by gilbert on 09.04.10 2:23 am
Joseph, the mind may tell you that there is a trick but there is no trick. You have worked out all sorts of problems with the intellect, in ‘your life’. With this the intellect will just go on going around in circles along with the imagination that ‘you’ are getting somewhere or that ‘you’ are not getting anywhere. That ‘you’ is nothing but a habit, a reference point. It only is believed in because it has not been investigated. Who says “Except ME”? Find out what that is. It is a habit of belief. If you really take a close look into that believed in ‘point of reference’ it will be revealed for what it is.
If there are sensations to it, go into them, expand them and see if you can actually find a center to it.
I can tell you that it is ‘an image’ in the mind but you have to see it for yourself. Because it is a habit the mechanics of it are very quick, almost instantaneous. This is why one needs to have a clear intention, without any preconceived ideas or expectations, when you look into it. Be genuine. There is no cost in being genuine.
Posted by Jacob on 09.04.10 6:27 am
Thanks MARY ! when you say go into them do you mean put all the attention there on them. are you saying 100% that this can be seen .
Posted by confused on 09.04.10 9:19 am
LOL, lets hope that name doesn’t stick.
What Mary, err, Gilbert, is saying has nothing to do with something that you see. I have a hunch you’re waiting to see some spectacular heavenly picnic that will indicate your enlightenment. This is not what is being pointed to. Far from it. This recognition will in no way change the make-up of your reality. It will not all of a sudden act as a barrier to negative experiences. Pain, both mental and physical, will still arise. It is the attitude towards these experiences that changes, because they are seen to be transient arisings that in no way shape or form describe reality, and they have nothing to do with you.
What you are is this SEEING. This is 100%. Nothing else can be said with such certainty, or any certainty for that matter. Sit still, watch, and notice. Stop chasing this god damn figment called Jacob around when it plays its antics of “im not enlightened, wtf, what does a brotha gotta do?” Notice that this thought cannot prove the existence of a separate person. The only thing it apparently does is point to other concepts.
Q: Who isn’t enlightened?
A: Me!
Q: Who’s me?
A: Jacob damnit!
Q: Who’s Jacob?
A: Stop getting smart with me! You’re Jacob!
This goes on endlessly. Without putting your attention on this stuff, sit still and just notice how this takes place. Eventually the mind will burn itself out, however, you will have been there through the whole thing, and you’ll still be out there after any concept of Jacob is gone. You are NOT a concept. You are the awareness (seeing) in which thoughts about this apparent unenlightened dude Jacob appear. Try this out and let me know if you have questions. Hope things are well with ya.
Posted by Hidey Hole on 09.04.10 5:03 pm
Hi, there’s so much to choose from it’s difficult to make a decision, but I like no. 56, Suzanne Foxton, from 8:37 “I suppose…” to 10:00, “…so it can be there, period.” She starts out saying very clearly that choice is an illusion, because whatever is chosen is the One; and she goes on to say reality is an illusion, just firing nerve endings, and it’s there so it can be there and for no other reason. When I heard that, it all seemed so plain that of course there’s no choice, of course there’s no separate person, of course reality is an illusion. It all seemed very obvious.
I also like a lot of Jason Swanson and William Samuel, but I’ll stick with Suzanne for now because she seems really down-to-earth and not too bothered with the teacher stuff.
Posted by Jacob on 09.04.10 7:42 pm
Cheers man will do x
Posted by anatta on 09.05.10 6:15 am
Jake, only concepts seemingly obscure the tranquility that is our very essence. Cease to accept ideas as reality and the peace that is beyond understanding is already present.
Posted by fernando on 09.05.10 11:33 pm
Jake,
What is REAL and what is a CONCEPT?
Once you are able to discriminate between REALITY and abstractions or re-presentations OF Reality (concepts), what gilbert and anatta and confused point to will be clear.
(excuse my poor English)
Posted by billtys on 09.06.10 8:01 am
Is not knowing happening right now?
Thoughts, body, world appear in the knowing.
Questions and answers and concepts appear in the knowing.
The knowing was there when you were five years old, when you were twenty years old…and right now.
In attempting to describe this undeniable knowing and give it attributes or give it a name…it becomes an object, a concept for the mind to examine.
This object/concept appears in the knowing.
There is only knowing, there is only the immediacy… and how can you separate this knowing immediacy from what is appearing…where is the dividing line…
There is none.
Posted by fernando on 09.07.10 2:44 am
Yes. There is NO dividing line.
Appearances are expressions OF Reality, but not like they appear. I mean, they are not Real in themselves, they are not Real ‘per se’.
Posted by suki on 09.07.10 4:10 am
How magical and miraculous that every experience and appearance since the dawn of time, to this very second has not accumulated and piled up on top of each other. Just imagine the density and dysfunctional-ity of existing in this universe with so much existential residue building up over eons! But, this is not the case, because everything is inherently empty. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. There is no demarcation point anywhere. So, really what is happening Now? Look and See…..
Posted by Fred on 09.07.10 5:36 pm
Oops ! Sorry billtys I clicked the thumbs down by mistake instead of the thumbs up. Luckily +2 is just as inseparable from the knowing as +4.
* Good podcast.
Lasting peace and joy cannot be found in any experience (worldly or spiritual) as all experiences have a beginning middle and END. Knowing or awareness is not an experience but a timeless constant (it has no beginning middle or end). No experience can make it anymore or less what it is. So no need for any special experience or state, all experiences are inseparable from it.
Posted by fernando on 09.08.10 3:27 am
«I make a distinction between Awakening and Self-Realisation.
Awakening (in the way I use the word) is the experiential understanding that what we are is unlimited, unlocated Consciousness. It’s instantaneous but not necessarily immediate.
Self-Realisation is the realignment of the mind and body with this experiential understanding and takes time. So ‘the clearing of unconscious, limiting beliefs’ is something that happens naturally as a result of awakening to our true nature. Having said that, it is possible to cooperate with this realignment.
The experiences you relate such as, ‘more peace, more capacity to be loving, powerful expressions of wisdom and compassion’ are outcomes or expressions of the Self-Realisation process. However, this adaptation of the mind and body also takes place during the investigation that leads to awakening as well as in its immediate aftermath.»
(Rupert Spira – Questions and Answers)
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Posted by marcos gualberto on 01.14.11 12:39 pm
É bastante claro quando temos diretamente uma vivencia desta verdade de nossa real natureza,estamos sempre,em todos os lugares,indepentente da lingua ou maneira de comunicar de ´´cada“ um, a mensagem é a mesma,não há mas ilusões na vivencia da não-dualidade.