58. Rupert Spira – part one
Posted October 26, 2009
By gilbert
Areti interviews Rupert Spira. Many suggestions have been made for us to conduct this interview, so here it is. Rupert is a ceramic’s artist and he makes some exceptionally pleasant pieces of art – forms. See his work on his website. Part two will follow in due course.
Rupert’s website is Here
Music includes: The Oyster Band, Andreas Vollenweider (Harp), Tomitito (Guitar), Shanka (Indian) and Cheb i Sabbah (closing music).
These podcasts a totally free. Non Duality is always free of guru biased belief systems. You can add your comments and converse with others via the comment pages. There are many features to this site – explore them. Small donations can be made via the donation link, below the coffee cup image.
We also have some new voices lined up for the near future. In this way we continue to explore those who are speaking clearly about non duality, without too much sideline stuff about methods and practices etc. Many of the teachings are bogged down in unnecessary tradition baggage.
That is all stripped away, much to the chagrin of so-called ‘experts’ on Non Duality. Ordinary everyday language is best. Straight talk is best.
With this diversity of clear expressions on the UGC some will surely find something that resonates with their own experience. This is not about entertaining the believed in sense of being a spiritual ‘person’. That sort of stuff can be found on so many sites and this site is not about that nonsense. It has its place in the scheme of things – but not here.
Please make use of the many programs on this site. Most of them are pretty damn good. if there is a genuine interest, then they will assist, not in perpetuating the story of me, but they will assist to undermine the beliefs in being separate. Those old belief will become thread bare and the ‘cloth’ will fall apart, maybe unexpectedly. Do not be afraid. Nothing can harm the true essence that you are. Revealing that is what this is all about.
Warm regards – Gilbert.
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Your starting to advertise and identify with this being a great site, and it is. But truthfully I think that this site still keeps seeking going, we wait for the next podcast, thinking this will be the one that will tell me what to do. Whether people here admit it or not, that is what is going on. But also, I can’t say that it isn’t helping. Jason Swanson’s last week helped me taste.
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I wait for the next podcast because I enjoy listening to other pointers, great music clips, and of course the great humour! Gilbert’s “it’s a legal clause” was funny. If you are still “seeking” then see what the pointers are pointing to, there is no other way.
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Easy for you to pretend you’re not seeking.
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Well, good luck with your apparent “seeking” and when it appears to end get back to me and we can have a good laugh together.
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The thumbs down say it all, but anyway what are you doing here then? Here to condescend? If enlightenment is going around these sites and condescending and getting touchy, then it surely stinks. Are you one of the people who go around helping here? Go help in the non-internet world then, there’s enough people here. I’d believe you were genuine but you seem to want to get into it. Thanks for the good luck though
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Like I said, I like to hear other people’s pointers, I really like the music and Gilbert is usually pretty funny. I am sincere and know that I can’t help anyone, you can only do this yourself.
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‘Who’ is starting to identify?
By what faculty do you detect someone starting to identify with something? Sounds like you are the one identified – identified with finding fault in ‘others’.
There is no one here identified with anything AND what is more……this is a bloody good site…..and it keeps on rolling along.
Other sites are usually either smothered with the host’s personality or pushing some biased bullshit about one particular guru…..or it is just a play thing for some 50 something ‘rich kid’ who has A.D.S. They wander off the track consistently and anything clear that shows up is lost agin pretty quickly – all in the appearance of course. Are you lost in the appearance?
It seems that you just don’t get it………- ANYTHING can ‘do it’ and nothing can ‘do it’.
It ALREADY IS what it is.
It is the mind that is restless…….so, stop going there. NOW.
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What I’m saying is simply that you keep saying how this site is so great, and how other sites are shitty. You’re very ‘ I’m not identified with anything’ is fishy in itself. Anyway, enough with playing the devils advocato… I have an idea, maybe it is not the best time to say it but I was thinking maybe a ‘seeker’ can be interviewed, we can see the perspective of the seeker. Instead of always listening to pointers, and instructions or so they seem, maybe the pointers will see what the seekers are erroneously doing etc… I don’t know maybe its a bad idea to you, but it kind of balances the hierarchy, and will make this a great site. Before I got into the site, I thought that this is what you have done with Dan, Kimo etc… But then I soon realized that these were posters who apparently ‘got it’. I think I thought that because it was when Areti said something new, which kind of sparked the idea.
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You seem to completely miss what is pointed at here – the whole seeker thing is just a story, it’s mind stuff, and accusing others is just adding more to the story of an apparent helpless seeker- all you have to do is look for yourself, see that the story appears in this space of awareness, together with all the other appearences (thoughts, feelings, objects, etc.), and recognize that this mind stuff is NOT REAL… It’s all a matter of discerning – but you have to do it for yourself, there is no final delivery – all waiting for a final “aha” is futile. The only question is: “who or what is wanting so desperately to get it?” If you seemingly “don’t get it”, it’s due to lack of investigation…
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What does that have to do with interviewing a seeker, or a non-areti interviewing a pointer? Also when did everyone in here become enlightened
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Wow! A book by Rupert Spira called “The Transparency of Things”
was given to me a year ago. At the time it was over my head. I’m digging it out & reading it with a new understanding.
Thank you Rupert, Areti, & Gilbert!
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Just wanted to thank you for another great podcast. Rupert’s point about not being able to locate presence was very good!
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I can only get about 3 minutes of this to download.
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Linda,
Please provide more information on the problem you’re having downloading. Are you clicking the download button? Are you clicking the play button within the website? There haven’t been any other reports – can you try one of the other ways and see if you still only get a partial play?
Is anyone else having an issue getting this podcast to play?
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Downloads are working fine. Just have a question,on how
to we edit our posts? or this feature disabled?
Rgds – Suki
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Suki,
What do you mean, edit our posts? Do you mean edit your comment after you’ve posted it? If you don’t see (Edit) beside the comment date, then that feature is not activated. I’ll take a look and see if that’s available.
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Sorry, I meant comments.
Thanks.
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Suki,
Editing your comment after posting isn’t a default feature of WordPress, although it is available as a plugin. Since we already have too many plugins, we won’t be using that one for now. If there is a large demand for some functionality, we will try to make it happen. If there are any suggestions for functionality, please let us know.
Also, everyone let us know what you like and don’t like about the present features on the site – visitor map, comment voting, speaker event schedules, etc. Your comments will help determine the features we use.
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For anyone interested,there is also a very good interview of Rupert Spira about the relations between Art and Consciousness on conscioustv.com…Alfred.
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Happy now Alfred?
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Thanks for giving us a shot of Rupert.
In 4th dimensional time, bodies come and go. Whether bodies appear in consciousness or consciousness appears in bodies, both are dualistic concepts (body+consciousness) in the time realm.
In the perspective of absolute timelessness there is only One, where nothing comes or goes.
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Please refrain from talking crap Richard. Bodies come and go in 4th dimensional time? I studied the literature on the 4th D 30 years ago and it is all theoretical postulations. In fact all dimensions are theories. They talk about 11 dimensions now and sprint theory (running around in circles in your head) – actually it is called String Theory – which is beautifully theoretical and beyond proof of any kind (and they know it). It is a living (bread and butter) for those who are experts on it though. Watch any of the scientists talking about it and you can see that they really ‘get off’ on it – their feet almost leave the ground. After all you have been through, for you to now say that bodies come and go in the 4th Dimension is merely twattle and jibberish. Disappointing. “For whom?” you will probably say, mimicking the average jargon of the modern ‘seeker’.
Excuse my liberal language. I will be quiet now. Warm regards – Gilbert.
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Would “bodies SEEM to come and go” or “APPEAR to come and go” be more your cup of tea? Of course these body things are none other than mind projections.
Mainly I tried to give credibility to the theme I’ve heard in this show and past shows concerning entities appearing in consciousness. This is a dualistic concept which has no reality in the Absolute.
It’s simple, there is only one life living, only one Self meditating on Itself. Nothing to attain, nothing to get or to do and no person to do it.
Didn’t know you were so scientifically oriented, Gilbert. Sorry if I APPEARED to insult your intelligence.
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Rupert never said anything dualistic :S, this was one of the only that said objects are nothing but the seeing or the seeing of them, creep.
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EXTRAORDINARY podcast! Another completely original “twist of the screw” of the ineffable. Thank you!
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Yes the word extra-ordinary has always been interesting, don’t you think. ‘Don’t you think’ has always bee intersting, etc.
The English ‘reserve’ and tone is different to the ear. It sounds like Rupert is in the Tardis – Dr. Who’s telephone box time skipping space ship thingy. Part two should also please those who like to twist the screw of the ineffable.
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‘Tardis’? I had to look that up… very funny, Rupert dashing inside his Tardis through the 4th dimension…
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Haha yeah language is so fun, Nothing exists could be NOTHING itself no-thing exists, or nothing + anything advaita. Nothing is you, I am nothing. Bad examples but I came up with better ones before.
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Rupert’s choice of the word ‘Transparency’ is spot on!
What could possibly get in the way of Seeing?
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Yeah this was an amazing experience. I have never heard anyone speak about the investigation in such a clear way before. I was actually almost surprised. Like: “Is this possible?” Hehe. I have heard investigation being spoken of as a concept and maybe a little bit more in depth but this was like hidden territory was revealed for me. This guided investigation really set something off here. It worked. I have never felt inclined towards it but when he talked about the body, and looking for identity in the feelings in the body I felt the immense power in that. The last days or weeks it has felt like the body is being pointed to a lot here, I think, because there is still a belief that there is a separate being inside this body, like some transparent silhouette or something hehe. Just writing about this brings me back to the clarity, the effortlessness… feels like being light as a feather. No contractions being identified with I guess. It can be like a vicious spiral and the investigation helps to dissolve the identification into clarity. It feels so organic, which the body is. Open space living the organic body.
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Gilbert,
When someone speaks of the 4th dimension, could you tell me what, if anything, that has to do with nonduality?
Thanks
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Jackson,
The 4th dimension, the time/space continuum, has nothing to do with nonduality. It was referred to in order to show that apparent time and space is where movement, change, and the duality of entity and consciousness APPEAR to be so.
Just as one might talk of night to show what day isn’t. Didn’t mean to confuse.
In actuality, as is experienced, nothing moves or changes as there is only ONE and this is without time or space. IT is, and doesn’t move or have parts.
At Cornell I studied Astronomy with Carl Sagan as my teacher. Pretty impressive, eh?
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Everything moves and changes. The reflection in an ordinary mirror is ever fresh – even if the light is turned off the reflection is there,
Awareness is like the mirror. The sleep state is just like the light being turned off. Wakefulness is present throughout all states of being – and it contains everyone and every thing.
Those who THINK that they are clear on this, always make erroneous statements – because understanding is NOT in the mind – and belief and/or knowledge is NOT it.
Astronomy? Planets and stars are like thoughts. They appear and disappear. Measuring them and creating dimensions in the mind will NEVER bring about the clarity of pure SEEING with NO THOUGHT.
Over and over it is pointed out that there is no answer in the mind.
What can the mind do with such information? Nothing and No Thing is THAT – that which is so desperately sort by a ‘something’ that does not actually exist.
Who is seeking the self, if not the self?
Self is just a label. Be quiet and SEE.
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When there is a division between the observer and the observed there is conflict but when the observer is the observed there is no control, no suppression.The self comes to an end. Duality comes to an end. Conflict comes to an end.
This is the greatest meditation to come upon this extraordinary thing for the mind to discover for itself the observer is the observed.
~ J. Krishnamurti
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Sorry to be annoying but what about when the observed is thought, isn’t thought observed?
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Yes thought is observed or perceived. But there is no observer or perceiver
only perceiving. There is no separation, it is a unitary movement.
See that this is true for your self. Only a thought can appear and claim that a ‘me’ is Seeing or Perceiving. In or on what does this thought appear
to?
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The perceiving itself in my experience. I think I get the quote, the observer being the thought bound person is actually the observed? Therefore the true observer observes the observed, and thus the false observer is the observed? Still there is separation of the true observing, unless the the objects like thought are made of the observing? It is just a distinction, you are not i-thoughts, you are that which the thoughts are made of, and when there is a thought the thought energy itself is actually you in a sense forming and then leaving with you as the backdrop still. Anything wrong in there? thanks.
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Pure cognition is neither perceiving, perceiver or perceived.
Understanding is wordless and silent.
Drop the words cognition, understanding and silence and what is left?
Only a believed in ‘concept’ of being ‘someone’ needs to describe……..the experiencing……in order to keep itself ‘alive’.
It never ever was alive – even the body is not alive.
There is ONLY LIFE.
LIFE expresses itself AS Everything.
The IMPRESSIONS of that Expression Register WITH itself…….. and LIFE is Everywhere.
It is nothing in particular. ‘You’ particularize everything and live with that confusion because ‘you’ believe that ‘you’ are a particular ‘thing’ and the ‘truth’ is you are everything.
‘You’ THINK that ‘you’ are separate (a concept) and that ‘you’ are SO important – but it is all thoughts appearing – needy and self-perpetuating ‘appearances’ of a recurring ‘problem – all appearing on the clarity of self-shining, immaculate being.
Be quiet and SEE.
In recognizing that ‘the thinker’ is just another thought…….then……
What is left?
Reality is THAT which NEVER changes.
(Apologies to the weak minded – Sledge Hammer tactics in this one)
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Scarfox,
You are making it unnecessarily more complicated than it actually is.
Whatever you can observe, including thoughts of any kind are objects.
That means they can be objectified. That which perceives them is not
an object, it cannot objectified. You cannot describe the Perceiving!
The only thing you can say is that there is this sense of Presence,
Here and Now in this immediacy which is Perceiving or registering all
appearances. At no point is there any separation between the Perceived
and the Perceiving (other than a conceptual one,which is another thought
or translation arising as an object being perceived in AWARENESS).
I hope this is clearer,I gave it my best shot.
Warm regards,Suki
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Oh, I thought non-duality was that nothing is separate from what you ARE. But you say there is observation and objects like thoughts. I guess this mind complicates…
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“I Thought Non Duality was that nothing is separate”.
WHO is this ‘I Thought’…..?
Belief is Useless.
SEE…….SEE………SEE……….SEE.
The mind translates the seeing into believed in opinions and postulated ‘knowledge’ and it is all a trap for no one.
Be quiet and SEE.
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“I HOPE this is clearer?” What has hope got to do with anything here?
If it is not totally clear already, then what is being shared?
Hope? Relative clarity?
It is time to stop and SEE what is really going on.
“I gave it my best shot” – ?
When the Bow is drawn and the aim is sighted – take a closer look at the target. ‘Who’ is trying to hit the mark?
SEE that there is no target, no Arrow, no Bow, No marksman…..and the effort drops away without incident.
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What has hope got to do with anything here? Good question!
Answer:Nothing.
It was just expressed that way. Did not ‘think’ anything of it
until your comment.Oh well,it is what it is.
Warm regards – Suki
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He’s challenging your knowing
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Beyond the label of ‘Suki’, there is no entity found called ‘Suki.’
This is a fact. So, I’m certain that there is no entity ‘Gilbert’
found beyond the label. So, who would challenge who?
There is just the fact of this Immediate Presencing Awareness.
There is no knowing outside of this. All else is imagination appearing
inside the KNOWING. SEE that you are the KNOWING NOW!
It’s always NOW, there is no other time, except as a concept.
Conceptual movement is time. Time is imagination. Imagination
oscillates between the appearance of duality – good/bad, pain/pleasure, dream/nightmares. SEE that you are never in the
conceptual dream of duality, it only appears to YOU.
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I like the Rupert’s concept of deep deep sleep taking the shape of sensing,tasting,hearing…Everything is made of deep dreamless sleep!isn’t it amazing?
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Suggestions to a dreamer – nothing more.
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In the dream there seem to be, on one side, alle these seekers – thousands, probably millions of seekers – struggling to wake up, turning in their believed in helplessness to all kinds of healing methods, therapies and gurus – and on the other side there seems to be a few lucky ones, that have, by grace, attained enlightenment. And whilst the latter persistently, insistently point to reality and call the seekers to wake up and see the truth, the seekers persistently and insistently refuse to wake up… It’s quite amazing!
All one has to do, is to see that it’s a dream, ALL of it…
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I’ll play like you…No one ‘attains’ anything, you are already that.
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In the very beginning of the program is a clear and precise pointer which many may miss the ‘significance’ of. The gist of it is this:
The ‘pattern’, whether it be the universe, a thought, a state of being, an idea, a mood, a gesture, a movement, a sensation in the body or a gentle breeze upon the skin – there is no knowing, no cognition actually IN the pattern itself – there is no substance or indepedant nature in the pattern. ALL patterns are ‘appearance’.
The salient point is THIS: The pattern, ALL patterns, APPEAR in the SEEING-KNOWING. There are NO exceptions whatsoever.
That pointer may well appear as mumbo jumbo to some – however it does cut to the core of it all. Strong belief will twist the words into nonsense.
Also anyone’s words can be torn apart and a sentence can be dismembered or contradicted. By what instrument or bias does that happen and is there a subtle agenda behind the act of the critic?
Conflict is duality.
There is no conflict in Non Duality, except as appearance.
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And then, ONLY a pattern ‘struggles’ to wake up, or ‘gets it’, isn’t it?
There really aren’t ‘seekers’ nor ‘enlightened ones’. They are only patterns, and a pattern can’t do anything.
Thanks, Gilbert.
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Just see that YOU are never in the dream of duality to begin with.
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… because I am NOT a pattern.
Thanks, Suki
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There is ONLY SEEING.
There is actually NO ‘you’ to ..”just see that YOU are never in the dream”. One could say that trying to see ‘it’ is the dream.
If laughing spontaneously happens……’because’ recognition has ‘happened’, there really isn’t anyone left to claim anything – and the KNOWING is that that ‘old mind’ which ‘we’ can call ‘me’ has ‘lost’ its ‘hold’ – and that appearance of losing its hold is the tail end of the minds last stand……a fading description of something that NEVER ever was real.
You are reality and could never ever be anything but THAT.
In the ‘appearance’ ‘we’ have ‘come a long way’…….the pointing is so direct and so ‘short’ it gets absorbed by the KNOWING that you ARE.
End of ‘story’.
P.S. There are two programs on this site called “In the Name of your God” (they appear on my website as well, seeing-knowing.com)- an interview Areti did with me. Some of the salient points that are usually glossed over by the ‘seeker’ are expressed clearly. Nothing is required from the listener, except to listen with an open mind. No belief is required. ‘How’ anyone can really hear direct pointing and still continue to seek is just a wonder of wonders. Of course there never was a seeker – but KNOWING that ‘appears’ to be a ‘rare phenomena’ – it is NOT phenomena at all – it is pure knowing.
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Well, part two of Rupert’s interview is about to make a splash on the UGC.
Some new voices still to come.
Where will it all end?
‘Where and when’ the recognition ‘happens’ – so the ‘need’ to keep searching for an answer will naturally and spontaneously ‘leave’ without even saying goodbye.
No one can make the recognition happen. You can, however, look at what seemingly gets in the way.
We at the UGC ‘do our best’ by presenting programs that are relatively free of biased views.
No one is asked to believe anything.
The ‘path’ and the ‘method’ you apparently choose will dissolve under your feet, leaving you as you always were – Present and Aware.
Isn’t that how it is right now?
It is only a thought that serves up ‘doubt’. Watch the mind and SEE how it leads you astray.
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