Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
59. Rupert Spira – part two
Posted on 11.01.09 1:19AM under Rupert Spira
This is a continuation of Areti’s interview with Rupert Spira. The pointing appears in the knowing. The potency is the knowing, not the pointing. Recognition spontaneously ‘happens’ or not.
Ruperts website is Here
Music includes: The Doors, Mozart, Lemonjelly, Lemon Pipers, The Police and Pink Floyd
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Posted by su on 11.01.09 4:40 am
Hi Gru,
When I try to download I get this message:
Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, support@supportwebsite.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
Any suggestions?
Posted by admin on 11.01.09 7:37 am
Suzanne,
That message is a site hiccup. If you try again, it should work. There have been over 50 downloads of it already and it tests fine.
Are you clicking the player button or the download link?
Comment again if you still can’t access it.
Posted by claudia on 11.01.09 9:18 am
“Consciousness has never been veiled… it is only experiencing itself…” It has suddenly become very clear, that every single appearance is constantly pointing to what I already am. And the pointer “Start from the fact, that you are already THAT”, so many times heard and seemingly not understood, shines in full brightness and reveals the inmense beauty in it’s utter simplicity. If this is not love, what could it be?
P.S. I greatly enjoy the incredible subtleness and fine humor of Rupert’s “exposure” – and, as always, the wonderful unit of words and music! Thank you doctor!
Posted by gilbert on 11.01.09 3:14 pm
Yes, it ‘appears’ to suddenly become very clear.
‘Then’ the realization is that it has always been clear and obvious.
The story of ‘how it is now’ and ‘how it was then’ is seen as a story about no one, actually.
And yet the story ‘appears’ to keep the concept of separation going.
Thoughts are NOT powerful, they have no power whatsoever, no matter how grand the thought is.
Like money, the only time thoughts have any potency is in the moment of their use, or transaction.
Yet, however it is laid out, in whatever crude or refined details – it is all nothing but the appearance of concepts – things.
Whatever concept may arise, no matter with ‘whomever’, guru or tramp – it is an (impersonal) expression.
At what point does it ‘become’ personal? What power does it have?
There is no becoming to what Is real.
Can you find the boundary between real and not real?
Becoming is a dream for whom? – all dreamers and all the dreams are nothing but that which ‘appears’ on or in Wakefulness.
There is ONLY 1 Wakefulness – not even 1.
This unfathomable intelligence appears AS everything – just as it is, right now. When is there any ‘other time’ than right now?
Posted by Suzanne Foxton on 11.01.09 5:22 pm
Just after listening to Rupert the phrase “wherever you go, there you are” kept repeating in my poor ol’ overworked, undervalued mind. I don’t believe he actually said that…
Posted by Alfred on 11.02.09 12:57 am
Mozart meeting Spira,that’s the real deal…:-)
Posted by fernando on 11.02.09 2:17 am
“Consciousness is the primary experience in all experience, whatever the particular character of that experience. And for this reason, the search for itself, the desire to return to itself, to abide in itself, can never be extinguished.
And, ironically, it is for the very same reason that the search will be continually undermined, because when it is understood that Consciousness always only experiences itself, it is understood simultaneously that Consciousness has nowhere to go and nothing to become.
Therefore, from the point of view of ignorance, the search is the first step that Consciousness takes in the return to itself. From the point of view of Understanding, the search is the first step that Consciousness takes away from itself. In neither case does Consciousness ever go anywhere.”
Rupert Spira – Essays)
Posted by Richard on 11.02.09 2:24 am
Suzanne,
“Wherever you go, there you are” is old stuff. In fact it is the title of a book by Jon Kabat-Zinn which came out (the book, not Jon) in 1994.
There is nothing new under the sun.
Posted by Richard on 11.02.09 2:25 am
The undying Absolute can never become dying entities, for then It would no longer be the undying Absolute.
Posted by suki on 11.02.09 4:13 am
Consciousness or Reality is Totality that is indivisible, where could it possibly go?
Posted by Richard on 11.02.09 7:31 am
Be cool. Be non-dual.
No time or space to interface.
Not even a few. There’s only You.
Only That is That. With whom do You chat?
Posted by Scarfox on 11.02.09 11:35 am
Richard, you always speak as if you know what your talking about. Someone has to be blunt with you, you are not a teacher or a pointer. But keep speaking from the absolute please, its quite humorous.
Posted by Tom on 11.02.09 12:17 pm
Very clear speaker.
Posted by gilbert on 11.02.09 1:31 pm
It is always good to hear some new expressions from different angles. However, it needs to be recognized that the one pointing is not an object to identify with.
Whatever is expressed is always falling short or misinterpreted. (The finger is not the Moon.. etc)
The spacious nature of pure knowing can ‘make itself known’ as a profound revelation and one may wonder how it was ever missed for so long.
The mind translates in ‘time’ and is time.
In the pure knowing there is naturally an inherent quality that overthrows any attempt to quantify or qualify it. (one may smile inexplicably as that is recognized)
So, the value of the pointing is not in the words or the pointing – it is in the pure recognition – simple every day knowing.
Even profound insights are not ‘it’. Any argument about that is a psychological stance and quite obviously revealing a self-center – which does not exist in reality. Belief is NEVER the actual.
The closer we come to it the more obvious the error is and the further it seems to move away.
The resonance of pure knowing shines a light on the expressions (the world including teachers and pointing) and a recognition of one’s true nature ‘happens’ and yet to say what it is, remains impossible.
The need to explain vanishes in the knowing.
‘Who cares?’
Understanding is silent and wordless.
The restless nature of the ‘mind’ is due to grasping motion. An attempt by ‘the mind’ to substantiate a ‘loca’ and it fails, over and over again.
In recognizing what I truly am, one could say that the grasping nature of mind is overthrown. In fact there is nothing there to be overthrown. Knowing that appears to be a rarity in these ‘others’ who populate the world around ‘me’. All is appearance.
Why be concerned? See that the me is a fiction and relax. What needs to be defended? Nothing.
In a way, it is all about what you truly are, not about a fictional ‘me’ or about the ‘others’, what ‘they are’ or ‘what they know’ or ‘don’t know’.
So relax and SEE what is truly going on.
As Bob says “What’s wrong with right now? – if you don’t think about it”.
P.S. These things are shared spontaneously without any agenda and with the knowing that the salient points being pointed out may well go over most heads. Still, one or two may just resonate with it. The resonance is like receiving an invitation to be what you truly are. Accept the invitation as often as needs be. You are already THAT – so even the invite is unnecessary.
Posted by gilbert on 11.02.09 2:33 pm
Richard, I have never given you a thumbs down……as I remember anyway.
This is a good program – maybe comment on that.
Warm regards – Gilbert.
Posted by Richard on 11.02.09 2:40 pm
Glad I can amuse you Scarfox.
I have a grandaughter around your age and admire you for being interested in spiritual stuff at such a young age. When I was your age I was only interested in trying to get laid. I was in the army then.
Have you been helped by reading and listening to what you call the teachers and pointers?
Myself, I think we can learn from everyone we meet, including animals. The whole world is our sangha.
I wish you a joyous life and hope you find what you are looking for.
Posted by Richard on 11.02.09 4:32 pm
Okay Gilbert,
I’ll get with the program and confine any future posts, should there be any, to the programs, which are very well done imo.
I don’t use the thumbs up/down thing. Who am I to be a judge?
Best wishes,
Richard
Posted by Mark Jamieson on 11.02.09 6:20 pm
Gilbert, What was that Mozart excerpt? Truly beautiful
Posted by fernando on 11.02.09 9:45 pm
“Just after listening to Rupert the phrase ‘wherever you go, there you are’ kept repeating in my poor ol’ overworked, undervalued mind. I don’t believe he actually said that…”
What do you mean, Suzanne?
Posted by gilbert on 11.02.09 10:58 pm
Quartet No1 in G, KV 80. 1 Adagio.
Posted by gilbert on 11.02.09 11:27 pm
All fine Richard until the last line, which is so lame – So, I vote for a silencing of the Lame.
Posted by gilbert on 11.02.09 11:28 pm
Do we really want to know?
Posted by Suzanne Foxton on 11.03.09 1:42 am
Hey Fernando, I believe they say “wherever you go, there you are” in 12-step meetings a lot, usually in conjunction with the futility of “doing a geographical”, moving in order to escape yourself, and your life. It applies to any kind of running away, altering your state of mind, working too much, etc. It certainly applies to seeking. “I don’t believe he actually said that” was just a wondering aloud. Did he? Perhaps I’ll listen again.
“Nothing new under the sun…” Richard said in his now hidden comment. The following is just a story, meaningless, but fun…I had a dream a few years ago. I was wandering around my house, which was a combination of my current house and my childhood house. In my bedroom was a tin box, one I actually possessed as a child. In raised letter on the lid was the phrase “What you are looking for is what is looking”. When I awoke, I thought, “Hmmm, that’s way too good for me to have come up with.” So I Googled it and found it was usually attributed to St. Francis. Stanley Sobottka used it in his Course in Consciousness, and thus I was presented with my first writing about nonduality. Tony Parsons was cited in the back of the Course, and thus I was presented with my first speaker on nonduality. There isn’t really a point to this story, except the manifested Universe itself is perhaps the best guru, and there is no escaping this…oneness is, no matter what is felt or thought; it is what is felt and thought, no matter what that is.
And Gilbert, really wanting to know comes up a lot. Apparently.
Posted by claudia on 11.03.09 8:52 am
As the story goes, once one had a good taste of IT, there is no way back… So then one says: “okay, now everything seems just a matter of establishing in awareness – or more precisely, to dwell on it”. But I damn well know that this is not in “my hands”, since there is no separate “I” that could do such a thing.. Whether I dwell on it (or not) – it happens spontaneously, like the thought “I will listen to urbanguru”… or the thought, “i might just as well relax then” – which again, by no means does bring about relaxing, since thought has NO POWER whatsoever… How ever I turn it and twist it and try to grasp it, by putting together words – there is no way out. For the mind it is hell!… What’s left then? NOTHING at all – just THIS, full of all things… ( but this again, is only a thought)
Posted by Scarfox on 11.03.09 8:56 am
I thought that Spira did say something about wherever you go there you are, or be there fully. Anywho, to switch things up I wonder if Pradeep Apte would do go on the show? He is kind of like the Inaccessible Indian guru doctor who says Nisargadatta showed him the way.
Posted by claudia on 11.03.09 11:02 am
I wouldn’t listen to someone who claims that “Nisargadatta showed him the way”! But then, if you do, who cares?
Posted by gilbert on 11.03.09 11:18 am
“All roads lead to Rome”.
All paths lead to right here, right now.
“Don’t look back”.
No one can show you the way – why?…. because the future is unknown?…. there is no point in going back? – Each step is unique and you never ever step away from presence.
Each unique moment is embraced by the Absolute, this All encompassing nature of spontaneous expression – this display of the unfolding mystery called LIFE. Who can explain it? Many try to - libraries are full of books. Heads are full of beliefs, so it seems.
Theories and postulations about what it all means are manifold, diverse, and so often contradictory.
No one can tell you what this moment means.
The unique nature of open cognition , the cognition of what is, is aways present – irrespective of what the mind translates it into.
Words and sentences have no meaning apart from what you give them. Isn’t the space between thoughts open and spacious?
Isn’t the cognizing factor spacious and uncluttered?
What appears to be relative is not actually relative.
“Stop thinking and talking and there is nothing you will not be able to know” – quote from Hsin Hsin Ming.
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Posted by gilbert on 11.03.09 12:25 pm
Check out the new updated Urban Guru Icon image top right side of main page…….can you see the two faces surrounding the Goblet?
The interviewee and the interviewer face each other and the Nectar overflows…….Maybe I should go work for an advertising agency…ha.
Posted by claudia on 11.03.09 2:39 pm
It’s awesome! your definitely loosing money, haha
Posted by gilbert on 11.03.09 2:53 pm
Ya ya……but this is worth so much more…..
Lets hope my mac pro laptop holds itself together. They are pretty good machines. I don’t think I will ever go back to a PC again.
Mac are so user friendly. Plug a camera or whatever into it and the mac recognizes it straight away. No loading drivers and so no conflicts in the software department. I am sure that making these programs on a PC would be a nightmare. So, get yourself a mac and see for yourself.
Posted by Scarfox on 11.03.09 3:00 pm
Well I’m not directly quoting Pradeep, but I meant it like in the same way that Nisargadatta was Sailor Bob’s pointer, and Bob helped Gilbert (I think), relatively etc… Also it is losing not loosing
Posted by Suzanne Foxton on 11.03.09 5:03 pm
“Stop thinking and taking and there is nothing you will not be able to know…” Hsin Hsin Ming. Stopping anything, doing anything, takes an act of will…will that does not exist; there is no choice. There is no escaping reality; whatever it is that seems to happen, and whatever the responses are to those happenings, are not anything anyone can change. Thinking and taking may very well happen. Anything might. You might “die” at any moment. There is nothing you can do that doesn’t reinforce the separate ego, yet the separate ego, paradoxically, is oneness. There is nothing you can do to “awaken”. You can’t “awaken”. This is it already. Everything is already the perfect expression of being. This is oneness, awareness, whatever its face. Here you are. This is it.
Posted by Richard on 11.03.09 5:26 pm
I’m for Leo Hartong’s, “Descriptions and not prescriptions”.
Yet all chatter is in time/space. Where were you prior to your conception? Where will you be after your death? No teaching here, just immense enjoying. Freedom of speech and all that.
btw Suzanne, there was a typo or mistake in Gilbert’s quote. the word should be “talking” and not “taking”. It goes, “…The more you think about it [reality], the further astray you wander from the truth. Stop talking and thinking, and there is nothing you will not be able to know.”
Posted by gilbert on 11.03.09 5:30 pm
Suzanne, are you absolutely certain that there is nothing one can do?
There is something that comes across as being impotent in the message that you can not do anything.
In fact there is something that anyone can do.
Pause thought.
Or say “No Mind”……”No Mind”…….”No Mind”.
Repeat it and SEE what reveals itself.
Tony’s message ignores the fact that what you truly ARE is the potency of existence.
So many just get frustrated by the message that you cannot do anything and that there is no you to do it.
Tony has a good business going for a retired builder or whatever he was.
It seems that there are a few who ‘believe’ they ‘got it’ just because some unusual experience ‘happened to them’.
And to keep ‘leaning on’ that experience as a prop is quite obviously not what is being pointed out here.
Gurus don’t like to be challenged and they get rid of anyone who keeps asking annoying questions and those who challenge what they say.
The fact is that anything anyone says is actually not true.
It appears that there are degrees of error in all expressions.
The single factor that is so often missed is that the KNOWING is not in the word, the concept or whatever is expressed.
You are the Knowing Presence and that is not a thing.
You cannot say what it is and any expression will fall short because it is inexpressible.
No one can give that which must be recognized and just as the eye cannot see itself, the same is true for the ‘I’.
Where are you SEEING from?
Posted by grant on 11.03.09 6:16 pm
I’m afraid, I had to stop listening to this podcast after about ten minutes. My wife has a “spiritual” friend who recommended that I give it a listen. I used to pretty big on “non duality” about forty years ago. I’m one of the original Californian hippies! I took a lot of acid and had a real ‘understanding’ of the truth as I saw it at the time… Ramana Maharshi and some of the other Hindu gurus made a lot of sense to me back then. I got to the point where “nothing was real”, where everything was like a kind of unreal movie going on in my mind and I was utterly unengaged and bored with the “transient stuff” that passed through my disinterestedawareness. I had become very disassociated from life…
Anyway, a good and strong woman pulled me back into the world. And she made me see that she was real and our baby was going to be very real in about eight months time!
When she was born and I held her in my arms I knew then, without any shadow of doubt, that the manifest physical world was the glorious other face of the Nothing. The magnificent Something. And the personal “I” was natural and absolutely valid, so that open, endless Awareness could experience its own infinite and unique manifestation, including a “me”.
I’ve been reading the comments on this page and others. The “non-duality” terminology is different these days, but I can get the gist… Listen: our lives are fleeting, and what we experience of the world, its suffering and joys, is known by the “great awareness” and we are its apparatus for its knowing. There’s a sense in these pages that the personal ‘I’ is something to be “seen through”, dismissed and ignored as if it is a lesser mode. But the personal self is our “Something” in this great ocean of No-thing… I treasure it.
Mysticism almost killed me. I had persuaded myself I was “above” it all. But it is here in this actual life that we are forged and made, and change and live.
These days, my daughter is grown and has got me working in my retirement, alongside those who are trying to help the Palestinian people in their great suffering, in Gaza and elsewhere. Like many of you on this site, I thought I could pass by and ignore it all, see it just as “appearance”… y’know, not really “real”. I have seen Advaita called “spiritual heroin” by its critics, and in my case, it did become a kind of poison that sapped me of the vitality to really live in this life.
This is only part of the answer.
Take care my friends.
Grant Ewins
Posted by Suzanne Foxton on 11.03.09 7:21 pm
Just getting frustrated…that’s probably no bad thing.
There is no leaning on that experience…whatever it is that seemed to happen is unimportant, like all manifested reality. Unimportant, yet miraculous.
The pointers I seem to like to use just point to the futility of doing anything…and then, perhaps, boundlessness can be apprehended…by no one.
There are loads of pointers…some seem to work for some…some seem to work for others…and in fact, our pointers mainly coincide.
There is no absolute truth encapsulated by words or concepts, and what we are trying to point to is not a word, or concept, or feeling, or action. Even “pure awareness” is a concept. No one can get this; yet it is everything, and nothing. Try to box it in with words, and the words get in the way. The pointers we use agree on this.
But it’s simply fun trying. When you say “No one can give that which must be recognized and just as the eye cannot see itself, the same is true for the I” it’s the same as me saying “no one can get this.” Both point to separation, the ego, the mind, never being able to grasp this, because it’s not a concept, it’s everything, nothing, Fred, Jehosephat, lamp, whatever.
I’m not seeing from anywhere. No one can say what it is. Our pointers are absolutely complementary, the same way traditional Advaita – peeling away at the ego – and “neo”-Advaita – pointing out that oneness is already the case – are complementary. There’s room for it all. My nonduality is not better than your nonduality! There’s a Buddhist analogy about the rope, and the knife; the knife can cut through each fiber of the rope, slowly, or all at once, in one fell swoop. Neither is superior to the other.
Love ya Gilbert. You are me, I am you. -Suzanne
Posted by Richard on 11.04.09 2:32 am
Maybe you can stack up all the pointers and climb them to heaven.
Posted by Scarfox on 11.04.09 4:00 am
Well it would be impossible for the real you to be an appauratus for ‘some great awareness’, Let’s say there is a God, wouldn’t it still be its manifestation, why would it not want to be the experiencing? Pointless God you have there, you can still be the real individual expression of the one or whole, without the thought bound stuff. It seems you haven’t understood this fully, I’m a youngin, took acid a few times and you know as they say, once you get the message, hangup. Something like that.
Posted by suki on 11.04.09 5:03 am
The river of experience just flows into the Knowing. Vanishing or dissolving into unknown depths.
Nothing can be amassed about the Essence of what you ARE. Whole and Complete. This instant is Ever fresh.
Is this not the case, right NOW?
Posted by Ronna on 11.04.09 5:13 am
After reading Grant’s message I am left with the thought “this is a perfect description of an intellectual understanding rather than pure cognition”. Thanks for the heads up Grant.
Posted by Scarfox on 11.04.09 5:36 am
I’d say it is not intellectually understood either actually, but it is good he has came back, because back in his time it seems guru’s made awareness as something beyond what you are.
Posted by fernando on 11.04.09 6:08 am
Everywhere – yes, there is me.
So whatever comes to be
Will melt into all that was,
This, no matter what life does.
Here I am, and here I stay
I am everything today.
I am time, and I am space,
Every deed, and every place
Every when is when I am
I am lion, I am lamb
I am anger, I am peace
I will never ever cease.
I, the only thing that’s real,
That can harm, and that can heal,
I, the only thing that lasts,
No more futures, no more pasts.
I am what has always been.
I am sainthood, I am sin.
I am everything I see.
I am what it is to be.
All that happens, that is me
All love and antipathy.
I cannot reject myself;
Take me from the dusty shelf.
Everything – yes, that is me.
I am all, totality
I am me, and I am you.
This, no matter what I do.
S. Foxton 2009
Posted by fernando on 11.04.09 8:08 am
What is there to be enlightened ‘one day’?
Ono of two:
One: Awareness, but this is EVER there.
Two: Thoughts, percepctions, sensations, etc, i.e. APPEARANCES, but these can’t do anything. Your image in the mirror NEVER will be enlightened.
Therefore, you are what you are looking for.
Posted by Jeremy on 11.04.09 8:36 am
In reply to Grant, experiences, drug induced or otherwise, are meaningless as far as knowing is concerned. In fact I find mystical experiences are really only a matter of contrast. Very similar to the lovely feeling of being simply healthy after a prolonged interest. My story was the reverse. I have no spiritual background, and stumbled onto the truth one well rested morning when I got the urge to “get real”. Voila, there it was, the stark contrast of non-dual awareness. It faded back into consensual reality in a few days, and a few months were spent chasing the ghost of that experience.
Moved by the words, or perhaps just the voice, of Bob Adamson, I ceased trying to fit my ideas of what the experience had been into my current experience, and voila! Re-cognition. Rinse and repeat. I have to say I can’t imagine a better practice than listening to the Bob Adamson podcasts. Except perhaps contemplating your very own inevitable death.
But Grant nevertheless brings up an interesting point, mysticism will kill you. If you see what’s being pointed to, really see it, it will kill the program in your brain that refers to itself as the mover and shaker. I can’t imagine having a disinterest in the clear seeing, what you describe sounds like disillusionment. Seeing the seemingly impossible truth that no self exists, and yet, the body doesn’t miss a beat, is the most fascinating event that can happen. Growing the balls to look your own non existence in the eye is profoundly positive. Ask any old “regular Joe” that has had a close brush with death. They may have woven a different sort of story about what near death experiences mean, but the story is meaningless. What they face in that brief moment is the possibility of their own non-existence.
To truly see that you are nothing at all is the most humbling event possible. If you found yourself “above” those who were suffering, you were either off track, or you chickened out before you got clear. Those are mindgames. The personal self is a mirage. Any inference that this is either good or bad is just an inference, a thought. It is not good or bad, just what is. I assure you with all the sincerity I can muster that the knowing beyond all doubt that self is nonexistent frees the organism from all fear. And fear takes up quite a lot of real estate in the nervous system. With the fear gone, disassociation does not take it’s place. What does seem to take it’s place is subtle gratitude and awe and wonder, at every person, tick, plant, or rock. Concern for others resolves itself pretty quickly. It’s just guilt and fear of your own death anyway. Strangely enough, helping others is a new hobby this meatbag has developed, which I never really did when I had concern for others. It’s spontaneous and genuine, with no agenda and no concern for success.
Just my two cents.
And good podcast.
Posted by gilbert on 11.04.09 9:15 am
Veteran Soldiers of Advaita slip out of the scene and into a new scene, fighting the same battle on a different game board.
This is not about finding a perfect philosophical ‘position’.
A fortress on a hill may protect the ‘me’ but it also cuts one off from the dynamics of life.
I know some Non Duality ‘types’ who appear to have perfected the internal dialog, as a form of self-calming. They have ready made answers and can run a spiel that will fool most ‘people’ (including themselves).
The internal conflict is unnecessary.
Through belief in concepts the continuous ‘drama’ supports the belief in ‘me’.
ONE Essence APPEARS as everything.
Realizing that you ARE that ONE Essence is not a concept that comes and goes.
Erroneous beliefs are totally overthrown naturally in the SEEING-KNOWING presence.
In this ‘pure seeing-knowing’, even if there appears a ‘you’ who wants to return to beliefs, the belief can NEVER take over again because all beliefs are transparent naturally – in simple words, you can not go back to believing in separation again.
You may be surrounded by hundreds of ‘others’ who may try to drag you back into the realms of belief – but it just wont happen. One may have compassion for these ‘others’ or merely laugh at them. This ‘state of affairs’ is not some personal acquisition – it is NON DUALITY.
The ‘personal’ appearance named as ‘me’, or whatever, was only ever a concept with added feelings – ALL of it is simply ‘energy’ appearing to form patterns (every ‘thing’ in the Universe).
The all inclusive nature of ‘reality’ can never be approached by a believed in separate ‘entity’. Like Icarus, the ‘wings’ of wax (concepts) melt in the blazing light of pure awareness. (pardon the poetic visions) As Rupert says, You don’t find it, you dissolve in it.
The thing is: Everyone is an appearance (including yourself) in this pure awareness (wordless wakefulness).
Is there a ‘self’ if you don’t conceptualize one? Take a good look.
ALL the stories in ALL the world are just transient appearances that go nowhere – and they all appear nowhere other than in this immediacy. Seeing them for what they are is natural and effortless.
“If you have to contrive ‘the seeing’ then it isn’t seeing, it is conceptualization about seeing”.- Gilbert
THAT single last point I am making is enough to bring the whole house of cards down.
The mind will avoid the ‘pointing’ with a hundred biased weapons because the ‘me’ is fearful of non-existence.
It, the me, NEVER existed in the first instant, so the whole drama is a fiction – but for WHOM does it have meaning?
The ONLY ‘time’ you can truly SEE the truth of this is now.
In the clear view it is seen that there is no one here and that is self-liberation. Not the liberation of a ‘self’ – it is liberation from the belief in being a ‘self’. Those who claim to own this open view are deluded. Those who live in it and from it, without claiming anything are free.
Posted by Jeremy on 11.04.09 11:11 am
I just read this. Crap all of it. Please bury it.
Posted by Scarfox on 11.04.09 11:36 am
There is only the Self, shit just looking at existence right now all there is is knowing. Knowing of being… There is only awareness. If you all stop right now in front of your computer screen, you are aware. Aware of all objects, which wouldn’t be objects if there was nothing aware of them.
Posted by gilbert on 11.04.09 12:01 pm
Yes but if you drop the concepts including the concept that there is only Self – what is left?
Self is just a word and like any other word, it is simply a vibration of energy forming a pattern.
What is left when all concepts are dropped?
No mind – pure cognition.
No one left to claim anything.
In the Tao Te Ching it says “Those who know do not say – those who say do not know”.
It does not mean that we don’t speak.
What it means (here) is that all expressions are not it.
For the mind there is what appears to be true and what appears to be false.
In the ACTUALITY there is no true and false. Equanimity is not conditioned by circumstances.
The KNOWING is NOT in the pattern (the expression, the phenomenal universe).
Seeing this leaves you speechless because it stuns the mind into silence – then speaking returns which is accompanied by the ‘knowledge’ that any expression is NEVER the actual.
Posted by suki on 11.04.09 12:06 pm
That which is Aware is NOT an object.
That which claims it is Aware IS an object.
There is nothing that can get behind the Awareness.
The purity of Awareness is uncontaminated by content.
The content or objects are appearances only and seem separate,but can arise only in Awareness.
So,there is only Awareness or Seeing/Knowing or whatever name you care to give. Ultimately it is Nameless.
Posted by gilbert on 11.04.09 12:14 pm
It is hard to gauge, of course, but the dynamics on this site are sharp and fairly clean compared to other sites, in my opinion. What makes the difference is that the message is not loaded with guru personality crap or some STORY of how to gain what the guru has. The pointing is almost exclusively pointing AT what you ARE.
In other words – What you SEEK you already ARE.
It is simply a matter of SEEING what it is that seemingly obscures THAT. And it is always concepts clustered around the idea of a ‘me’.
This is why it is repeatedly suggested to investigate this ‘me’ and SEE that it has no substance and no independence whatsoever. Once this is seen clearly the whole facade of seeking dissolves without incident.
Posted by fernando on 11.04.09 1:56 pm
“You are the whatness that never moves. See that everything about you and around you is in a constant state of flux – except a subtle yet certain presence of awareness that never changes. Take a moment right now to witness what is fully evident. Even if I could hand it to you, it would take more time and require more effort for you to grasp it than it would for you to simply see it for yourself. And seeing it for yourself is the only way that this understanding can happen. True teachers will tell you that they can only point to that which is always present. So look carefully. It is there.”
Rodney Stevens
Posted by gilbert on 11.04.09 2:15 pm
The understanding is already present but because it is silent and wordless, the mind disregards it.
So, if you are waiting for understanding to come, you will wait forever.
What Rodney is pointing out is that SEEING contains everything and everything is the SEEING.
It is ALL SEEING. ALL KNOWING.
The impulse to claim it is just a habit and habits can be broken.
Posted by Richard on 11.04.09 6:39 pm
Some good posts here.
If there is a dissolving, this is indicative of a separation and is thereby illusory. What to dissolve into what?
If there is someone advising someone else, these are dream characters appearing to be separate within the dream.
Perhaps there is a seeing or a knowing, but as soon as there is an aspiring towards this, once again an illusory separation. When the knower of the knowing pops up, you are within the dream. The triality of knower, knowing, and known is the knowing manifesting as a mirage.
And the idea of a seeing or knowing is a conceptual mind-constuct. Merely imagination.
Corrections to the above, appreciated. Corrections to my assumed person, ridiculous and unfruitful.
Posted by gilbert on 11.04.09 10:14 pm
Richard, do not take any of this personally………..and relax, it is not a criticism.
There is no PERHAPS to it.
There is ONLY seeing-knowing.
The expression is NOT it – the expression is like a reflection in the mirror. The reflection is never what is reflected and there is a SEEMING distance between these APPARENT two and YET they are actually One.
You are the knowing and nothing other than THAT. Some call it ‘space-like’ awareness. You are THAT ‘space’ in which everything appears and nothing is at any distance from what you are – except as an appearance of volume – distance.
As Nisargadatta points out: You are not in the world – the world appears in what you are.
P.S. ‘When’ it is seen that what is attempted to be shared via expression on this are all ‘false’ or at least approximations, ‘then’ which can only EVER be now, ‘then’ the illusion of believing in the expression (word) is superseded by (ever-present) pure knowing. Even this ‘close’ expression is not IT. That is known ‘here’ without disturbance of mind.
If it resonates – good. If not then move on to what does.
Posted by Joe Cap on 11.05.09 3:13 am
I think Areti asked Rupert “what do you have to say to someone who is right in the middle of the anx of it” or something…..
Twenty years ago there was a group of people that I had way up on a pedestal; The charismatic parish priest who always had something in his homily that related to my problems- the bearded and wise, ex-hippie psychologist, who taught me how to manipulate girls into going out with me- a high school English teacher who introduced me to Richard Bach and said that ‘only my beliefs are in the way of my dreams’- and then there was my parents, older brother, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, etc etc etc… (dead people are easier to worship) These people had it all figured out. HA!
Slowly and painfully I took each and every one of these people off the stage and even placed them below me as I saw their flaws and ignorance leaving me completely lost and feeling separate and more alone than ever. Poor me…
Then the seeking intensified and I substituted these people with Chopra, Yogananda and anyone else who appeared to have a word of wisdom. Of course this all led nowhere and even became more frustrating.
So there I am last night in a star-studded second life meeting: Areti right next to me. Randall, Gilberto, Jason! Some dude interjecting stand up comedy throughout the whole thing (which was very funny actually). Couldn’t get any cooler…
I then realized that I have just exchanged the ‘stars’ from twenty years ago- no offense to these speakers but i just re-wrapped them and completely conceptualized the entire message being pointed to. It actually felt like I was being disrespectful to the speakers last night bringing the same baggage to the meeting. The same I, me, mine focus.
“How can I see this”. “What am I doing wrong”. Oh yeah, they tell me ‘I will never get it because I don’t exist’- now I will pretend that I know what that means…wait! There it is again, ‘I will never get it because I am the seeing not the see-er’- ok, got it… no I don’t because I don’t exist- wait but what is seeing this- oh yeah, here it is, now I got it!- no I don’t because I am a verb- hummmm, oh yeah, now I got it- no you don’t , YOU will never get it because there is no you- what are these thoughts appearing in- ok, I got that! Now I am really getting to the bottom of this!- yeah right, on and on and on and on…….
So that’s what I felt like posting- I don’t know if any of it makes sense- i really don’t know anything
Thanks for listening.
Joe
Posted by Scarfox on 11.05.09 5:53 am
pay attention to the present or pay attention to presence?
This here is the basic space of phenomena.
Posted by gilbert on 11.05.09 8:27 am
Is the story of ‘your life’ a story of endless compromising? Avoiding reality through paying attention to beliefs rather than to what actually IS? WHO is paying attention right now?
No Presence – no attention.
WHO pays attention?
You are presence.
What you think you are is thought.
The attention is naturally drawn to where it is needed without conceptualizations.
The one who is trying to BECOME something ‘other’ than what it is, is very busy trying – in vain.
What ‘people’ call ‘paying attention’ is probably just ‘thinking about’ or conceptualizations.
As the Dzogchen teaching says “The Great Perfection is Non Conceptual Awareness”. (That is what the word dzogchen means)
As with the title of many excellent books – the title tells it all.
Examples are:
“Self Liberation through SEEING with Naked Awareness”
“What is wrong with right now?- if you don’t think about it”
“Presence Awareness – just this and nothing else”
“One Essence (expressing) Appearing AS Everything”
THIS IS IT – JUST AS IT IS.
Simplicity and what is true are identical.
‘We’ think about ‘things’ and invent philosophies which bog us down and they ‘appear’ to create a maze in which ‘we’ wander about complaining about how difficult to solve the maze is…. and how far we have to go…. etc.
Drop all concepts and SEE. See that the maze is made from ‘your own’ conceptualizations.
There are no rules or regulations. The so-called ‘truth’ appears to be radical for the habituated mind and is often too shocking to face. So ‘we’ avoid it at all costs, so it seems. It is all stories.
The dark forest of your own concepts along with an image of your self, lost in that forest, is actually all ‘standing on an open plain’. It is the energy of belief that supports the whole charade. Who is paying attention right now?
Stop giving attention to things that are not and SEE what IS.
Posted by claudia on 11.05.09 8:57 am
There is a saying from the dharma bums time “If you meet the buddha on the road, kill him” (for “buddha” is only a concept) – or as a crazy photographer friend says, “If you know an f-stop, you already know too much”.
So appears Gilbert to me – “killing all the buddhas on the road” – cutting all the conceptual branches and tentacles off with his sword of truth… (It’s just a clumsy analogy, of course)
Posted by suki on 11.05.09 9:57 am
When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself.
~ Peter O’Toole
Posted by gilbert on 11.05.09 10:29 am
So it appears but cutting of the branches does not do the trick – YOU have to pull out the roots of belief – otherwise they sprout again and again. No one can do it for you. (Addressed to no one)
Posted by Scarfox on 11.05.09 1:11 pm
The reason I asked this was because someone asked Rodney stevens if they should pay attention to what is happening at the moment, and he said ‘The attention should be on the simple presence of presence, not on any events or occurrences that may be going on at the time.’. Deeply confusing, don’t see a different between the two.
Posted by Richard on 11.05.09 6:33 pm
“There is no dissolution, no origination, none in bondage, none possessed of the means of liberation, none desirous of liberation, and none liberated. This is the ultimate truth.” Gaudapada
Posted by Ste Gunn on 11.06.09 1:19 am
I think Grant makes a good point and I’d suggest that if he hasn’t already that he has a listen to the excellent three part interview with Tim Freke available on the UGC.
It can seem as though non-duality disregards the appearance in favour of seeing\knowing but this is often due to miss-interpretaion by the seeker\mind. Remember that what is labeled appearance is in reality the seeing\knowing, not two.
Posted by piersede on 11.06.09 2:27 am
Great podcast. Rupert Spira speaks beautifully about this. And I find his pottery incredibly pleasing too.
Further thanks to all at UGC for this unique resource.
Posted by fernando on 11.06.09 3:44 am
“Presence, You, I, is the witness and the substance of every experience. And as there is nothing other than experience, Presence is everything.
As witness it is knowing. As substance it is being.
But knowing and being are not two distinct aspects of Presence. They are seamlessly one.
Presence knows a thing by being that thing. And Presence is a thing by knowing that thing.
It is what I am.
This identity of knowing and being is our most intimate and direct experience. In fact it is all that is ever experienced.
It is known as love.”
Rupert Spira, Essays
Posted by suki on 11.06.09 7:14 am
How can ‘you’ translate that which is indescribable?
The Essence of what ‘you’ ARE, does not translate.
It is beyond the reach of the ‘mind’. To be clear the
‘you and I’ and ‘mind’ are them selves translations, habitual
repetitive thoughts that assign themselves to other thoughts,
translations that arise in the Essence of what you ARE.
The stream of ‘translations’ is not continuous. If one is aware
there is space or emptiness between each successive thought.
That space or emptiness is what you ARE. That space or emptiness
does not change, does not move and is indescribable, yet always
present. Impossible for IT to NOT be! Further still, the thoughts themselves are appearances appearing and disappearing in what you ARE. That makes them NOT separate from what you ARE.
One fundamental difference is an appearance CANNOT KNOW
anything. Only what you ARE can KNOW.
What you ARE is this undefined, inexhaustible intelligent potential energy of Knowing.
The above is another translation. Just SEE that YOU are NEVER in
any translation and further still that there is NO YOU!
Posted by areti on 11.06.09 8:29 am
You say ‘here it is, now I got it!- no I don’t because I am a verb- hummmm’
I really liked that Joe. I am sure that many will have had the experience that you describe so well in your post.
Your mind is pointing you to a truth in that statement and that’s the mind’s value (if anything can be said to have value).
There are three pointers that come to mind that may help you with this:
Firstly, a pointer that Gilbert has used – ‘Watch thoughts as they disappear and notice that there is no witness’.
Secondly, a pointer used in the Hing Si Ming – whenever confusing thoughts arise, say ‘Not two’. Bob’s ‘Full stop(stopping thought)’ is akin to this.
Thirdly, a pointer that came to me once – you don’t have to think ‘I am thinking’ to know that thinking is happening.
Finally, another one of Gilbert’s pointers – see the entity is just a thought. (And you are not a thought).
Is there a ‘you’ if you don’t think about it?
Posted by gilbert on 11.06.09 8:57 am
You are awareness.
The attention wanders all over the place……and it is drwn to this and that…….naturally.
‘Who’ is confused by a pointer?
Any pointer has relative value in the appearance……..If you point you own finger back into the space where seeing is happening………
the duality of the ‘situation’ may dissolve into KNOWING.
Posted by gilbert on 11.06.09 9:09 am
The expression is phenomena, the appearance.
The appearance can never encapsulate the essence.
In the appearance the water is in the bucket.
However, the bucket is submerged in the ocean.
What difference is there between the water in the bucket and the water of the ocean?
You THINK you are in the world.
The loca that appears in sensation is sensation itself. It is an implication of separation.
Through belief in thought the mind appears to divide THAT which can never ACTUALLY be divided by anything, let alone by a mere thought.
Few ‘appear’ to get it – actually no one gets it……everyone is THAT – but not as it ‘appears’ to be.
“To be or not to be – that is the question”. Questions appear in BEING. There is no substance to the question of being or not being.
The questioner is the question and both appear – and disappear. Being remains as pure duration – the timeless-ness of pure cognition.
Look for ‘yourself’ and SEE that there is no ‘point’ in space or time that you can say “This is what I am”.
Posted by Scarfox on 11.06.09 9:24 am
ah, quite right.
Posted by Scarfox on 11.06.09 2:46 pm
As awareness is recognized as what I am, I see the awareness can form itself into self-deluding thoughts, they can no longer delude you when you see this. Not for much longer anyway. Does this seem right, follow the flow of being?
Posted by claudia on 11.06.09 3:55 pm
Once I thought I knew what it was all about. Now I don’t know anything anymore. I thought I have some clarity. Now there is only darkness. “My” mind is in turmoil, shouting louder than ever, all unintelligible stuff. What made once sense, is sensless gibberish. If I had to describe it, I would say “I am in hell”, but I know that these words don’t mean anything. I am completely lost.
Posted by Richard on 11.06.09 4:07 pm
Hi Claudia,
Sorry to hear you are suffering. Consider whether you might need professional help.
Best wishes,
Richard
Posted by su on 11.06.09 4:21 pm
Where have all the comments gone?
Posted by Ronna on 11.06.09 4:56 pm
You need to click on the box at the bottom, just click on 1 to go back to the first page of comments.
Posted by billtys on 11.06.09 5:06 pm
Everything without exception appears in what you are.
The mirror reflects everything without exception…
The camera lens registers everything without exception…
How could a mirror or a camera lens NOT register what is in front of it!
The mirror and the lens register pain and joy and everything in between…without exception…
Everything registers in the knowing/seeing…the body, the mind, the turmoil, the gibberish, the concept of now…etc
Has anything ever appeared outside of the knowing/seeing…everything is registering right now…even thoughts of the past and the anticipations of the future…
What is being pointed to… is That in which everything appears and disappears…
The knowing/the seeing does not differentiate between the appearance of a scent of a rose or the appearance of the turmoil of an earthquake. Everything appears or registers in the timeless, unchanging YOU.
What is the constant factor at breakfast, lunch and dinner…the food changes but not You, not the seeing, not the knowing…
That constant factor is there now and also when you were five years old. What changes? The body, the thoughts, the scenery…but not YOU! If that is seen now, then it is always the case…and has always been so.
Perhaps identification with the imagined entity is appearing right now…but that is just an appearance also. The identification appears in the seeing/knowing also…frustration appears in the seeing/ knowing…forgetfullness appears in the seeing/knowing…everything appears and disappears without exception in That which you are.
It is simply a case of mistaken identity. The imagined entity is exactly that…a phantom…a puff of smoke…an appearance in what you are…it is so easy to identify with it through constant repetition and habits.
You are That!
Posted by Scarfox on 11.06.09 5:31 pm
Were you not the one who said you get it and its quite easy and basic, and that you’ve seen through the illusion, etc….
Posted by Scarfox on 11.06.09 5:32 pm
Click ‘Page 1′ haha.
Posted by billtys on 11.06.09 5:55 pm
The realisation simply floats to the top like oil from the bottom of the pond. You do nothing…it just appears. It is just ordinary awareness. There is no tripping the light fantastic…there are no visions splendid or visits of illuminated angels…
Any thought, question, declaration, concept or object (including the body) is the trigger for the recognition to arise…because it arises and disappears in what you are.
It is just ordinary awareness…like right now…yes, just like right now. As Bob Adamson says “…start from the fact that you are already That!” So…that means whatever is happening right now, then that’s it! That’s all there is…
And how could it be any different to what is happening right now. You are that in which everyhting appears and disappears.
Through the simplest of investigations it is clear and obvious you are not the body and you are not your thoughts. All appearance is transient. If one is seeking Truth then surely the best definition that we can find is “That which does not change”. After all, if it changes, then it would not be the Truth.
What is it that does not change? Surely it is the knowing, the seeing, in which everything, without exception, appears and disappears?
Call it what you like and there are many words and phrases for what is being pointed to. Pause a thought and in that clarity notice the next thought arising. How could anything appear or disappear without that all encompassing spaciousness…
Start from the fact that you are already that.
Any questions arising in that spaciousness are resolved instantly and in the immediacy. Any questions asked from the mind level will keep you in the mental loop.
Posted by gilbert on 11.06.09 7:29 pm
“Once I thought I knew”……now it is gone, darkness.
What perceives the darkness, what sees anything?
For some ‘the dark night of the soul’ appears to come about.
It is a challenge. No conceptual explanation will help much.
Words still appear…….compassion and assistance appears.
What you are is beyond light and darkness.
The light shines out of your being and the world appears in that light.
Cease from conceptualizing yourself as ‘someone’ in a situation.
Sometimes, it seems that the ‘me’ will not give up without a fight.
It appears to reassert itself in full bloom.
There is NO answer in the mind.
The ONLY way out of the mind is Full Stop.
Be quiet and SEE what is going on.
You are not these ‘things’ that appear.
You are completely invisible and you are not in the world.
Do not run away from whatever is convincing you that you are in darkness. Go into it fully and SEE. Recognize that you are the witness of it all.
Then SEE that the witness is spacious awareness – boundless presence.
Posted by gilbert on 11.07.09 1:13 am
Just a reminder to our new arrivals, new listeners – there are many programs on this site and every one of them is worthy of ‘your attention’.
If you enjoy thes latest programs, take a browse through the programs and pick one – you may be surprised with what you find. For anyone who has read “I am THAT”, Nisargadatta’s book, have a listen to the programs called “Beyond Space and Time” – they are actual recorded meetings from Khetwadi, Bombay in 1979-80. You can ‘feel’ the atmosphere through the recordings. Nisargadatta’s voice can be heard along with the translators.
Also, On Tuesday last (Wednesday for me) I attended the Urban Guru Cafe meeting held in Second Life. There were about twenty attending.
A short talk was given by Jason Swanson and then questions were invited. I took an active part in the meeting. I will attempt to be there next week also, so if you wish to attend, just come along. I don’t take much notice of the virtual scenery. Come along – we may have other guest speakers attending from time to time and it may develop into an excellent ‘meeting place’. We may record some of them and edit some of it into programs for this site which can be slotted in amongst the other programs.
Expressions happen all by themselves. When the fixation on ‘me’ is not getting in the way, the expressions ‘come’ from a different ‘place’.
The essence that some of us know as Bill has written some clear expressions above. Good to see.
Posted by claudia on 11.07.09 1:44 am
Thank you Gilbert! It is, after all amazing that, whilst it is unbearable for the mind to “not know”, and it obviously “doesn’t wants to die”, everything keeps functioning…
Posted by claudia on 11.07.09 3:32 am
No offense, Richard, but what you call “professional help”, I assume means: “go see a shrink o a psychiatrist”. But this is not a psychological issue, thanks God. How could one want to fix the ego? It is impossible! Even Freud came to that conclusion at the end of his life, and spent his last days listening to Bach, or something… As for the “pack of psychiatrist hounds” – they are righteous criminals! Sorry for being so blunt, but I had to get it “out of the system”…
Posted by gilbert on 11.07.09 4:03 am
What is the root cause of the problem for the ‘seeker’?
It is simply the belief in being ‘someone’ who is going to get ‘something’.
Many hear such information and pass over it far too quickly.
Have a good look. Is there an expectation that you will acquire something that you believe is missing?
I know from my own experience that many of the clear and precise pointers I heard from Bob Adamson, years ago, did not fully reveal their ‘meaning’ in me straight away.
In the Esoteric Teaching they say that Objective Literature has seven layers of meaning. The lowest is the common worldly meaning.
It kind of makes sense because as a pointer reveals its ‘meaning’ in you, it is as though an underlying sense of reality reveals itself.
This is why many believe that there is a ‘process’.
In the appearance there appears a process – yet that which IS remains as it is.
The mind is time.
You are not in the mind – the mind appears in what you are.
Posted by Richard on 11.07.09 4:45 am
Claudia and Gilbert,
Depression (Claudia)and bipolar disorder (Gilbert) are often the signs of a serious imbalance. Just as a diabetic needs daily insulin, so might those with emotional disorders require medication.
I’m not saying the body/mind entity is THAT. I’m saying the same one you advise with words, is the same one that can benefit by seeing a professional, hearing his/her words, and possibly receiving the medication that will restore balance.
Some compassionately try to comfort with advice. I compassionately say, Investigate all avenues if the suffering is chronic.
Posted by gilbert on 11.07.09 5:39 am
Yes, of course Richard. Even so, no matter what the condition is, what you truly are is not in a condition. The condition appears.
All possibilities are manifested from ONE Essence.
The ONE is not changing in its essence.
Whoever you think you are – you are that ONE Essence and nothing other than THAT.
The Ultimate medicine is knowing what you are.
Throughout the ages there have appeared billions and billions of beings and every one of them appeared to have a condition of some sort.
Jesus was raised from the dead. Where is he now?
The resurrection is symbolic of ‘recognizing’ one’s true nature.
There is NO death – there is ONLY LIFE.
ONE LIFE which is ALL INCLUSIVE.
That is what you are……..it is not a matter of belief or of conditions.
Posted by claudia on 11.07.09 5:47 am
Oh Richard, Richard, you shouldn’t be so quick with your diagnostics, and even less with advising medication… At least you made me laugh, in fact, I laughed “my head off”!
Posted by fernando on 11.07.09 6:22 am
Richard, psychiatric medication may be a cure worst than disease. If you don’t think so, read ‘Mad In America: Bad Medicine, Bad Science and the Enduring Mistreatment of the Mentally Ill’, by Robert Whitaker.
On the other side, psychiatric drugs industry is a corrupt and multimillionaire business, and Psychiatry, a pseudo science, as Thomas Szasz has brilliantly demonstrated.
Posted by kent on 11.07.09 6:51 am
Relying exclusively on direct experience in the investigation as Rupert explains, instead of merely ‘believing’ or ‘intellectually understanding’ pointers is extremely clear. Thanks for the podcasts.
Posted by suki on 11.07.09 6:55 am
For the body organism pain is unavoidable but suffering is optional.In my own case I have several chronic health conditions that give rise to periods of intense pain and discomfort. Would I prefer less or no pain and discomfort? yes of course in a heart beat! I do the best I can with the current medication at hand and my own research(alternative diets,etc).
Does the body have pain? Yes.
Do I suffer? NO
What can suffer? but a concept or ‘mind’ translation. There is no ‘ME’ to suffer. This is clear here.
What I am is UNCONDITIONAL.
Posted by Ronna on 11.07.09 6:56 am
Getting medical attention is a good thing if you need it in the appearance.
Posted by Scarfox on 11.07.09 8:44 am
Does he actually have bi-polar, i’m actually studying that right now in Psychology… Gilbert would you recommend someone who’s (body?) depressed to go on anti-depressants (SSRIS), or to realize the self? (just wondering)
also you have any studying tips
?
Posted by Cheryl on 11.07.09 2:15 pm
As a long time seeker it is an utter relief to realize that there is nothing wrong with me:)and that there is nothing to get and no where to go. After 10 years of endless attendance at Buddhist functions, finally reaching the all very secret tantra, I cracked up – voices came, weirdness happened. All any of my spiritual friends could say was ‘sorry cheryl, bad karma arisen’ and then they shuned me. Thankfully I had one friend left who knew about non-duality. Such freedom! I sometimes wonder though if my relief is relative to experience?
Posted by Scarfox on 11.07.09 6:06 pm
There is nothing wrong with me because there is no me!
Posted by gilbert on 11.07.09 8:36 pm
Who can interpret the relief for you? What ‘meaning’ is necessary for the relief to be understood?
Does relief need to be understood via words or descriptions?
Any interpretation is not the relief, it is just an interpretation of it – via mind, labels and concepts.
This applies to everything. (The label is not the thing labeled)
I will speak from ‘my own’ experience, if one can say such a thing and still retain some integrity. Integrity, now there is another concept but we will not open that bag of tricks just now.
Aside from all other aspects of relief, there is relief experienced in the body SIMPLY because the internal noise and angst has ceased. One can use an analogy sometimes with good ‘effect’.
You have been on a ship all your life, an old metal ship that creeks and groans and the big motor below deck sends shudders though the whole ship and a constant ‘noise’. The while you are taking a nap in the afternoon the ships motor is turned off and the ship is left to glide through the calm sea. All the groans and clunks and rumble settled down and the whole ship is just gliding silently. You wake up and it seems that something has ‘happened’. it isn’t a happening – it is more like a lack of happenings.
There is a clarity present that appears to be something totally new. The mind starts to explain it but all the explanations fail – then you realize that the ships motor has been turned off. There is a natural ease of being present.
For me, if I can say such a thing, one day, after many months of absorbing the ‘teachings’ which I had found through Nisargadatta and particularly Bob Adamson, I noticed that the usual shit that had been going on in my ‘psyche’ was no longer present. I could not explain it and did not need to – it was simply a wonderful subtle relief and the thinking about it was obviously just more ‘noise’, so it was dropped as often as it was noticed – not dropped by some ‘mind set’(habitual pattern) – it just dropped by itself because it was known for what it was. Belief can/could no longer keep it going. Relief and relaxation does not require thought – at all. (Let the thoughts be free)
There was/is a clear relaxed (relief) experience in the body – some tension was/is gone and many other ‘things’ that had been ‘attached’ to that tension are/were also missing. The impulse to go searching for the missing elements was/is also absent.
I could go on and share many other aspects but I will not.
The mind, as time and as grasping consciousness it habitually grabs all new information and turns it into another ‘thing’ to search for or use to bind itself.
However, beyond all that, some recognition may ‘arise’ naturally.
No one can give you what you already are.
What i always was did not come along because some tension disappeared. Tension may still appear but it is known for what it is.
The ‘word’ is never the ‘thing’ it describes.
Posted by Richard on 11.08.09 5:25 am
Some folks in the Vipassana tradition were happy because during their practice they experientially realized the oneness of all, themselves included. (They had more than understanding, they had innerstanding, as Sunyata might say).
They went to see a physicist who had stated the oneness of all. Yet he was rather unhappy. He had understanding, i.e., he stood under the knowledge, instead of being the knowledge itself (as he was in actuality).
Posted by billtys on 11.08.09 7:17 am
There is only seeing/knowing…there is only the immediacy…
Before practice, during practice, after practice, there is only the immediacy…yet the practice, the expectation, the joy, the unhappiness…appear in the immediacy.
You are the unchanging, eternal immediacy in which everything (without exception) is appearing.
Posted by billtys on 11.08.09 7:28 am
The manifestation is the key to the realisation arising instantly.
Examine one pointer (there are so many) and see how it reveals all.
How could a pointer even appear without “something for it to appear on”. How can an artist’s brush stroke appear without a canvas…how can a movie appear without a screen…
How can anything appear without the intelligence? Pause a thought and for a moment there is no mind… and lo and behold another thought appears (even if it is a frustration or a sadness)…what does it appear on or in?
You are that in which everything appears. That essence is everpresent, always there. It is there during shaving, showering, eating, working and It is there right now.
Posted by Richard on 11.08.09 8:19 am
Good posts billys.
From the perspective of the ONE everpresent essence, which Is, nothing appears within IT. There is only IT alone, without the separation of anything else, any action, or other, within or without IT.
No artist’s brush stroke AND canvas, no movie AND screen, only THAT, which Is, and which is Totality.
Posted by suki on 11.08.09 8:44 am
There is no duality in Non-Duality.
Posted by Richard on 11.08.09 10:25 am
Why the thumbs down? I thought this was a great post.
I think Gilbert’s acting unhostlike and criticizing me on *his* site has influenced some of you.
Check out what the thumbs are to be used for. Not for agreement or disagreement of a differing viewpoint or for writing style (I’m a well read Cornell graduate and won’t talk down to you.) And it’s not a popularity contest.
Some of my posts here, I’ve posted elsewhere, to a much more appreciative reception.
Oh well….let those who have ears hear.
If you all are not very careful, you might lose me as a poster and have to settle for the same old same old. Your loss.
Love,
Richard
Posted by Scarfox on 11.08.09 12:05 pm
I’d love for Gilbert to debate Richard Dawkins.
Posted by gilbert on 11.08.09 12:44 pm
Shit happens Rich. Graduate or illiterate makes no diff’ here.
Anyway, let’s not turn this into some ‘shit fight’ over words.
I am sure you mean well. I have a song lined up for you in a forth coming program. The next program is about to surface. if you cease to make comments, I am sure you will come back to listen to the new programs. Go well sunshine. Warm regards – Gilbert.
Posted by gilbert on 11.08.09 12:49 pm
Well, my opinion is that Richard Dawkins loves the mind game too much to be able to openly hear another point of view, without jumping on it almost instantly. It is common to be like that. Scientists are working hard to come up with more and more refined theories to explain reality – thus missing the clear cognition of what they truly are – so it seems. There is a chemical release in the brain which becomes addictive and chasing the ‘meaning’ of reality is the very missing of it. I enjoyed some of his book called “The Selfish Gene” many years ago.
Posted by summer on 11.14.10 1:30 pm
I just listened to this interview again for the second time. Rupert is so sincere, he touches something deep in me that feels so true. Also want to say that I love the way you Urban Guru folks present these interviews. The music, the casual thoughts tossed around, and the atmosphere of regular folks just hanging out, enjoying the show.
Thanx.