Urban Guru Cafe
Discovering what you truly are
76. Cashify – By what Authority?
Posted on 03.22.10 3:13PM under Cash Ify
This Program: The guest is known on Youtube as Cashify. Gilbert chats to Cash on the subject of Non Duality.
Link to Cash HERE.
Music by Peter Gabriel, Rufus Wainwright, Radiohead, Zero 7 and an obvious rock band that needs no intro, with the voice of M. Ryan.
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Posted by gilbert on 03.22.10 3:33 pm
Well……here we go again. Cash Only.
Posted by Alex on 03.22.10 4:17 pm
On a count of three . . . everybody roll their eyes. One. Two …
Posted by gilbert on 03.22.10 4:46 pm
Three. Ha ha.
The message comes in many ‘packages’ but the messenger is not the message. What is necessary ‘seems’ to be a recognition.
What is the basis of all recognition is the fact that it has already been cognized. If it had not been already cognized, then it cannot be recognized.
it will be interesting how this pans itself out.
Things are not what they appear to be.
Demanding a specific ‘package’ for the message turns into a trap.
Many who BELIEVE that they are clear on THIS do not realize that they are not clear at all. Sometimes a little nudge upon the right button, trips off a response that even they did not expect.
I rest my case – your honor.
P.S. Remember that the mind uses comparison. The contrast between ‘things’ can be informative and reveal what otherwise is seen as the same. Non Duality is not one blob of indiscriminate perceptions. You KNOW, or at least the knowing is already ‘here’ and whatever brings that to the fore is valid. Judgment in mind can step in at any moment and clutter the view.
Posted by Scarfox on 03.22.10 5:45 pm
Apparently you can morph into other peoples perspective and something about time travel?
Posted by Cashify on 03.22.10 10:33 pm
Hi Scarfox,
YIKES. I wanted to squash that before the rumor mill gets hold of it. That was a comment I made durimg the description of a lucid dream experience describing what I’m able to do during lucid dream experiences. I mention it not to say “hey look I have powers!” but to illustrate that a change in viewpoint is not the same thing as transcendence. Thanks for bringing this up. If you took it to mean I’m possessing people here on Earth, you won’t be the only one, so I’m glad to clear that one up pronto.
All the best to you,
Cash
Posted by Cashify on 03.22.10 10:38 pm
Three? Can I three ME?
He’s pretentious, sounds nervous. I don’t like him…nope nope nope…..another wannabe arrogant poser…honestly. Reads some Alan watts, watches what the bleep, buys a few new age books and thinks he’s a “teacher.” What a tool.
Posted by gilbert on 03.23.10 12:56 am
Where am I seeing from? is a very good question to ask yourself.
The ‘witness’ is a reference point in mind.
It is a concept which translates as ‘I see’ and the thought cannot see.
Being transitory it changes ‘shape’ or shifts to a new ‘location’ (reference point). If you pay close attention to this ‘process’ it can be exceptionally revealing.
There is no ‘you’ seeing at all. There is only seeing.
So the idea that I am a ‘person’ loses its hold.
That is like a door opening to a vast open field. Having been locked in ‘the house’ for ‘so long’, this ‘open view’ has no reference points that the habits of mind can place upon it. Most run back into the ‘house’.
Courage to stay in the open, without ‘conceptual clothing’ is our natural state of ‘open space-like awareness’ – unadorned by concepts from the past.
Posted by suki on 03.23.10 1:21 am
There is no terrain in this landscape-less place-less place.
There is nothing for mind to get any conceptual footing.
Since the mind cannot alight anywhere, it is like perpetual free fall in endless Now.
Posted by Alex on 03.23.10 1:34 am
What “black hole?” Is it not OBVIOUS that quantum mechanics is just trying to be advaitically correct?
Posted by gilbert on 03.23.10 1:42 am
The modern scientist openly says that they are constantly trying to come up with ever new, refined concepts to explain ‘reality’ or ‘quantum physics’. There is no one ‘doing’ any of it.
It is all THAT and THAT is ALL inclusive.
A recent science magazine has an article titled ‘The Planet is a lot more healthy than we think” or something close to those words.
The problem is not in the thinking – it is the belief in the ‘thinker’.
The thinker is just a thought.
Well, keep it rolling gang. Who knows where this little ‘billy cart’ will go?
Posted by Dogribb on 03.23.10 2:49 am
This dogs happy to play outside
Posted by Cheryl on 03.23.10 4:55 am
As Cash says there is no more drama. There is no me to get entangled in ‘stuff’. In the absence of labeling ‘what is’ to a person there is no tension. In the former comments page I posted the question “What is the answer to nothings wrong?” and got a negative response, as opposed to even no response. Is it such a big leap from what we normally ‘think’ of how it should be?
Posted by gilbert on 03.23.10 7:34 am
‘I’ can’t get no satisfaction – Pointers are everywhere and often in ‘places’ we don’t expect.
Thanks for the reminder Joe.
The art of making a silk purse is a dying art….and the market place is flooded with sewn up sow’s ears.
You can’t judge a book by its cover – and out of the most unlikely places ‘the hand of God’ reaches out and ‘points’ you towards your own natural state.
How amazing life is.
Posted by mark on 03.23.10 8:50 am
Black holes, silk purses, scarred foxes, quantum leaps. The psychiatrist of James Joyce’s schizophrenic daughter Lucia is reported to have told him that the difference between the two was that ‘you dived to the bottom of the pool; she sank.’ Relevant? Perhaps. The fear of madness may be that that keeps people from diving into their experience. The big shift is to question the sanity of society. Courage, fellows, courage is needed to face the possibility that everything is ok!
Posted by gilbert on 03.23.10 9:29 am
What is wrong with right now – if you don’t think about it?
If you perceive a problem somewhere, then you have a problem.
But WHO is this you that perceives a problem?
The mind translates ‘what is’ into a description, and believes that the description is reality. “I think – therefore I am”.
Stop thought and know what you are – prior to thought. You are not a concept.
Simple.
Posted by mark on 03.23.10 9:40 am
I am therefore I think.
Posted by gilbert on 03.23.10 10:12 am
There is no ‘I’ that thinks. The concept of ‘I’ appears in the thinking.
The AM is a verb ‘To be’.
You are, whether the words appear or not.
SImple.
Posted by mark on 03.23.10 10:39 am
The thinking comes from where? An ‘I am’. The ‘I am’ doesnt come from thought.
Simple? Not to the mind. Hideously complicated to the mind.
So, leave the mind alone to cook and build shelters and light fires.
All the rest is just art.
Posted by Cheryl on 03.23.10 10:55 am
How’s this pointer? Just when you get all your ducks in a row your goose gets cooked. It ‘feels’ like I am having a lousy day. Who is having a lousy day? There’s just no one to pin it on. Yikes, run for cover then – but there’s no where to hide! Where ever I go that’s where I am. Truthfully there’s just no pretending to know. It is just this. This is it.
Posted by Cheryl on 03.23.10 11:41 am
Another sow’s ear? Just having a bit o fun. What’s a thumbs down or two in the scheme of things. Come on…. be brave, say something! You never know what might hit the mark.
Posted by gilbert on 03.23.10 11:52 am
FYI – This program will be updated with a new file – soon – a ‘final mix’. Much the same except the beginning and the end have extra bits.
‘Pointing’ can come from anywhere. A rich man may walk past a beggar in the back streets and hear a ‘random’ and apparently unrelated word or two and it will ‘hit the mark’ – or not. Who do you THINK you are?
Posted by Joe Cap on 03.23.10 1:00 pm
“absolute ________ liberation”?
i thought that was highly entertaining and something to be posted on Chopra or Dyers site maybe! Ha!
Posted by Cheryl on 03.23.10 2:39 pm
I arises in the appearance as thought. Therefore who I think I am is just a thought and I believe in the thought of I as I. Who is the I that is thinking of whether or not their I is a thought or not? It’s not the same I that knows it exists prior to thought. There is an I prior to thought that knows we are just a thought. Where is this I without thought? Do we have two I’s? (so to speak)
Posted by Cheryl on 03.23.10 2:48 pm
Gilbert you are one cool customer – thank you for your selfless and brave attempts to wake up the dead.
maybe I hit the mark with that last one…or not
Good night.:)
Posted by claudia on 03.23.10 3:00 pm
There is just knowing – no knower, no separate entity that is identifying with the content of the known – just pure, naked knowing. The seeming identification taking place is part of the mind content. Don’t get lost in mind games.You are not a thought. You can’t know yourself, just like the eye can’t see itself.
Posted by gilbert on 03.23.10 6:51 pm
Basically the recognition is that I am THAT.
I am no cool customer. There are no customers ‘for this’. You are THAT. Can’t sell it or buy it. It is not a product. Even though I shake and rattle their bones, it is no use.
Without the living-ness, which is one livingness, even the bones cannot respond.
Watch the body walk about. Who is walking? Are you actually moving?
Does the whole world move with the slightest motion forward or backwards? Where are you in all this movement?
Posted by max on 03.24.10 12:35 am
Well… I have been known to delude myself
but a light does seem to be revealing the nonexistent puppet strings. I cant say how it is happening, only that it is and there is gratitude. Who’s grateful? Im not sure. But All the same, thanks.
Posted by Scarfox on 03.24.10 9:20 am
Is awakening really only half the journey? Is there really an integration after realizing what you are? Read these types of things in the Carse books and some teachers are saying it. Just wondering!
Posted by fernando on 03.24.10 10:35 am
Is there a ‘journey’ from here to here?
‘Integrating’… what? There is only ONE, not two.
You are and you know you are. What are you going to ‘realize’?
Posted by nopathatall on 03.24.10 10:52 am
demystifying the epiphany; shifting mass awareness; changing the cultural programming; esoteric becomes quotidian.
Posted by Randall Friend on 03.24.10 1:47 pm
There is no reality spread out in space, existing from the past to future, with the present moment a mere speed bump.
The only reality of the world is that which you give it. The same applies for the individual “being” you take yourself to be.
Drop all conceptualizing about what you are – drop all attempts at becoming and notice what IS BEING. Being is pure and simple – ever-present. Being is empty of all content, all conditions, all attributes. What comes as thought can never capture it.
The endless questions in thought will never ever find the answer. The seeker and “realization” are mutually exclusive. The seeker will never come to realization or become realized.
The seeker is content. There are only two qualities of your Self – present and knowing. All else is imagination.
Posted by Randall Friend on 03.24.10 1:53 pm
What you are is limitless, boundless, perfectly free. That is already the case – there is nothing needed for this to be.
Yet you imagine yourself as a limited thing. As this you will never know the oneness or realization or peace you seek, simply because to take yourself as ANY thing is by definition to limit yourself.
The only solution is to give up the idea that you are limited. Reject all thoughts which claim this. Rest only in the pure and empty self, the subjectivity which has no location or duration, yet is undeniably there, the most intimate and unchanging aspect of all experience, over a lifetime.
Stop trying to GET something and notice what you ARE. Notice that limitless presence of knowing – we may call it the subject or “I” – it doesn’t matter what we call it. That presence is not a concept.
Posted by gilbert on 03.24.10 7:40 pm
In the space of a universe that is beyond measure, a small speck called ‘mankind’, endowed with a glimmer of ‘self-consciousness’ attempts to measure the meaning of everything, with his apparatus called a brain.
In his arrogance he imagines that he can control ‘nature’ and conquer all manner of ‘things’. He forgets that something as simple as ‘the weather’ kicks his ass so frequently and so hard sometimes, he reels from its ‘power’.
He searches the heavens for other planets and other life forms and ignores the wonder of what is in ‘his own backyard’.
‘Mankind’ is one small ripple on an Infinite Ocean. Consciousness is a mystery to him, because he cannot measure it or find it.
It remains hidden like a vast subtle ‘Carrier Wave’, within which he appears as a small and insignificant wave pattern. He has his theories and he clings to them, adjusts them frequently to make himself happy – but he never is.
He argues with his brothers about anything at all and especially about his own favorite theory.
He bands tentatively together into tribes and nations and plays politics at every crossroad. He exploits the resources of the planet and makes war over obscure and abstract ‘things’ and then pretends it is all about something honorable and just. He invades other nations under a cloud of ‘reason’ and wonders why he feels so much unease. He pours a nations finances into supporting a conflict over a boundary that does not exist – not for a short time but for centuries upon centuries. More blood is spilled than would fill a lake and it is all justified as being necessary.
Such is his powers of ‘reason’. Biased and limited, self-centered and despicable – Great Mankind, something to ‘look up to’, to aspire to?
At no point does he consider that it is all just an appearance and that he himself is nothing but a phantom, an idea.
What a mix of all kinds of ‘things’ this ‘man’ is.
His true nature is ignored in preference for a whole bunch of mental noise and a series of psychological states, which he has no idea where they spring from.
Why is this written here at this particular time?
Don’t ask me, I am as surprised as you are.
Posted by ricnz1 on 03.24.10 8:48 pm
-If eyes see objects(just a concept), then what sees thoughts?
-Whatever it is that is seeing-knowing these words is what you are.
What stops this last pointer from hitting home? I can speculate:
The mind can only describe things (thoughts, sensations, visual perceptions, sounds etc.) and what you are is not a thing, you have no objective qualities at all.
When the pointer is heard;
“Whatever it is that is seeing-knowing these words is what is you are.”
The mind first confirms that yes there is something knowing the words, then it usually seeks out what is knowing the words and finds something objective like the tingling sensation behind the eyes.(just one example) Can you see this happening? This is identification, it is very subtle.
Look straight at this identification. Can you discern that the tingling sensation behind the eyes is just another object which is known by what you are? Just like every other so called object of experience. See the ACTUALITY of this. No awakening is needed to see this, just a bit of honest looking.
You are JUST the seeing-knowing. (already)
Posted by gilbert on 03.24.10 9:07 pm
Actually no one has ever seen an object.
Light reflecting of ‘things’ tells us that there is ‘something’ there.
But what if there is no ‘out there’ or ‘in here’?
The apparent world is light appearing.
Light itself is invisible (in deep space).
The warmth of the sun does not come from the sun – light touches the atmosphere and heat is released from the atmosphere.
All our theories are theories and actually no one knows what the hell is going on. Generally speaking. You only have to read a popular science magazine to see the work of a bunch of second rate journo’s.
Of course I am just stirring up some dust, just for fun.
Posted by kozan on 03.25.10 12:31 am
I am, and I am an individual that wants to wake up to the timeless absolute state of existence so elegantly described by ramana maharshi, and brilliantly by nisargadatta. After 20 years of zen practice I am through messing around.
This brings me to a point. It seems, in my experience, there are no living teachers that exist in this timeless state of the absolute that I can sit at their feet as I abide in “I Am”. Everyone knows the language but who knows completely “I am not the body?” whose unending experience is “not two?”
I am currently selling off, giving away everything I own to pursue, realize this “not two” once and for all. See onebrightpearl.org for details.
I ask Gilbert, is there anyone he knows that exists in the state that Nisargadatta and Bhagavan Ramana exist in. No double speak please about that we all do. Is there a living guru here in the USA, I will walk to their satsang from Bloomington Indiana where I live now as a caretaker at a zen temple.. Is Frances Lucille? Anyone?
Posted by fernando on 03.25.10 3:08 am
THIS is IT.
And there is nothing besides THIS, or behind THIS.
THIS is all there is.
Everything else is imagination, and imagination is THIS too, pretending not to be THIS.
THIS is the alpha and the omega. The context and the content too.
You are THIS and I am THIS and everyone is THIS and everything is THIS…
Posted by Cheryl on 03.25.10 4:00 am
“Truth or Reality cannot be stored, cannot be amassed, it does not accumulate.” Sailor Bob Which means what you are is ever only fresh and new. If we hang on to what we ‘think’ we are we miss the clarity of the immediacy. Perhaps there are old habits of mind that hang around for a time that cause us to believe we need to look to the past or the future. The immediacy of Truth and Reality is only ever now. You are already THAT. Just be.
“This made up entity the “me” or time bound mind does not have any power to do anything, although it has been believed that it does have power of its own.” Mark West
Posted by mark on 03.25.10 4:53 am
Funny Fernando. He must be the one.. Etc You speak with such certainty. How can one doubt you?
Why do you do it? Why pretend? Just be yourself. Its much nicer..
Posted by mark on 03.25.10 5:04 am
Fernando, sit still for a while. See who is there. Stop writing shit. (Thats my zone!)
Posted by suki on 03.25.10 5:40 am
The tao that can be named is not the eternal tao. – Lao Tzu
He should of stopped there……but!
If there is no ‘individual’ ‘doer’, then there can be no ‘personal’ volition. Who can choose to write ‘shit’ or not?
‘Shit’ happens, as they say:)
Everything is just happening or nothing is happening.
Is there a ‘divide’ somewhere between the two?
Or is it just One and the same….
Posted by mark on 03.25.10 5:52 am
Same shit! God bless you.
Posted by fernando on 03.25.10 6:11 am
“Start from the FACT that you are THAT”, Mark.
There is NO becoming.
Have the courage (‘ten las pelotas’) to be what you are and forget the ‘other’s shit’.
Your own shit is enough.
Posted by fernando on 03.25.10 6:27 am
«You impose limits to your true nature of infinite being, then, you get displeased to be only a limited creature, then you begin spiritual practices to transcend these non-existent limits. But if your practice itself implies the existence of these limits, how could they allow you to transcend them.» (Ramana Maharshi)
Posted by mark on 03.25.10 6:35 am
Right on. You are that. There is only that. Blah blah blah.. Words will never get it. So what are we doing? Some are pointing in the right direction. (Heart or something knows.) Some are just regurgitating a load of history.
Which are you/that/is/whatever.
Relax. Its ok. This is not a competition.
Finally. There really are no winners, or losers. It just is as it is. Hello?
Posted by gilbert on 03.25.10 10:28 am
Kozan, One must discover that what I truly am is not in a state.
The pointer ‘I am not the body nor the mind’ is pointing directly at what you are, and that potential revelation unravels itself once the limitations of belief are lifted. No one can predict what will reveal itself for you.
It is also obvious that Nisargadatta and Ramana did not ‘teach practices’. The quote from Ramana shown a few comments below this one is an exceptional pointer.
In some cases these ‘teachers’ may have given instructions to ‘do something’ simply because the so called ‘individual’ needed some activity to direct the energy away from some strong habit, or whatever. Nisargadatta sent people away after 8 days usually. Make room for someone else.
Just as in one house, many ‘people’ appear to come and go – states appear in yourself.
“I go to my Father’s House to prepare a place for you” (paraphrasing) is simply a way of saying that with all my heart I wish for you to realize that you are not this limited creature of belief. You are this knowing presence (the original ‘house’). You are not a visitor.
All states ‘appear’ in consciousness. There is no ‘entity’ stuck in any state.
Lucille may be harmless but I see that he encourages meditation and some sort of practice. That is a sure sign of ‘belief’ in the concept that either there is a ‘person’ or that there is a need to ‘give’ people something ‘to do’.
The desire to do something spiritual is such a common theme and it is simply diversion from the actuality.
I do not know of any teacher who is clear of belief in being a ‘person’ other than Bob Adamson. He is here in Australia.
In the USA? The USA is such a ‘market place’ and everything is ‘on sale’ – if there is ‘someone’ over there, I would say that he or she is probably not well known.
AND you can be sure that they are NOT telling everyone about themselves constantly.
The fuzzy message that includes hope for the ME is what gets all the attention – is popular. Groups surround a ‘spoiled guru’ like flies. It is obviously not liberating at all. It is a celebration of bondage in the name of liberation. The message is simple and is quick to deliver – there is no time for a picnic and swooning on blankets in the sun.
Once the message is truly heard, there is no need to hang around the messenger. The clear messenger is not important – the unclear messenger is full of self-importance. That is one of the signs to look for. Any sign of self-importance in a teacher is a sure sign of bondage dressed up as freedom. And if the messenger is in bondage, how can his message be true?
Posted by kozan on 03.25.10 11:27 am
Thank you for your sincere response. I just keep returning to “I Am” and sometimes pray for Gods grace to release this misidentification.
Yes, all states are conditional. It is as if my entire being is a knot these days…
(Ed: The Pointing here is Direct – no compromises: Forget about God – To project a ‘God’ that is separate from what you ARE, is dualism and there is NO duality in Non Duality)
Posted by Cheryl on 03.25.10 4:17 pm
What’s really humble, to paraphrase Mark West, is to recognize your own true nature. I would guess because nothing is excluded from that recognition, nothing is seen as separate from what you are.
Posted by Ste Gunn on 03.25.10 11:50 pm
The wonder in the backyard so elegantly and honestly described.
Posted by gilbert on 03.26.10 12:46 am
When the dawn comes and the consciousness stirs upon this wakefulness, the sense of oneness is so obviously here and everywhere, before the eyes open. The eyes open and tears well up as a relief spreads throughout the being. A memory of a long standing burden is gone and the ‘flesh’ that had been depressed by that burden, for so long, breathes freely without effort and everything is light – it shines as if from every place, illuminating this pure emptiness.
This emptiness, that encompasses everything, far beyond where the limited eyes can see. Self-luminous. A joyous rapture is this natural state. Beyond description.
The habits of mind stir and the shadow of ‘me’ is illuminated and its humbleness is embraced. It dissolves with its concept of being separate. Never again can it be believed in. Words have a use, to express what is often inexpressible. There is ’something’ beyond the words and for a glimmer of a moment, I wonder if you feel it.
Posted by Joe Cap on 03.26.10 2:50 am
“I do not know of any teacher who is clear of belief in being a ‘person’ other than Bob Adamson.” – Gilbert
There is no hierarchy here, correct?
What is the difference between Gilbert, Randall, Jason, Paul, Jeff, etc and Bob Adamson? Isn’t it the same message?
Is it because Bob has a superior direct expression?
These are just the thoughts that pop up every time you refer to Bob as being special or different from you- I’m not taking anything away from Bob.
No offense to anyone intended.
Posted by Cheryl on 03.26.10 3:45 am
All those things we chase or try to develop via a process – love, compassion, patience, contentment – are all encompassed naturally in our true nature. Nisargadatta did say you need to love yourself, but I am pretty sure he’s not talking about the limited self. The fact of seeing things as separate is a clue that this seeing is not happening…you already are that, everything is that, it is an effortless knowing. And the only time and place it can be is now.
Posted by Joe Cap on 03.26.10 4:23 am
..on second thought WHO CARES.
This is yet another example of how ‘joe’ gets caught up in the seemingly important crap the mind dishes out.
Posted by Will on 03.26.10 6:22 am
You’re not just trying to keep these folks
coming back for more,
are you Gilbert?
(Gilbert: What folks? You don’t mean these dregs of society do you? Ha.)
Posted by paul on 03.26.10 8:18 am
Your original comment was a point that needed to be brought out. Makes Bob special some how. That sentence by Gilbert was “not a clear expression” as they say in ono-duality circles!
Posted by gilbert on 03.26.10 8:22 am
In Essence there is no difference.
All I am saying is that there is a detectable absence of a ‘me’ with Bob. I cannot explain it. The absence of ‘me’ here is equally obvious, but a memory of a me still appears ‘here’ as Gilbert. That will always be so, as a pattern appearing.
There is no Hierarchy anywhere, only the appearance.
The expression that is expressed from Bob is very clear and not only that, his regular talk goes to the core of the ‘belief system’ and pulls it apart in such a way, it is impossible not to see the truth of what he says. Whether someone can stay with it or not is another matter. There is no path, no method, no practice and the true compassion is to point beyond all such notions at ‘this moment’ of natural awareness – unencumbered presence. There are no compromises.
Most appear to be conditioned by spiritual beliefs and the direct message is just too much for them to bare. It is all in the appearance. Where does it all appear?
In this singular presence – you are THAT.
Posted by frankly on 03.26.10 10:33 am
to Kozan…Now I am still seeking like you Kozan..so you can take my words with pinch of salt…but I do know, any of those who talk about this subject in an uncompromising way (so in other words as close to the truth as words will allow)…will always disappoint YOU.. There will be nothing in it for you.. They will offer you no way and no method what-so-ever..I know this to be the ultimate because it is utterly selfless to offer you nothing..It is love to offer you nothing..It is true compassion to offer you nothing.. .. .. Know that you are in good company if there is no hope on offer..
. I can tell you now that if there was a way I could get to it..I’d be there by now. Though if that was the case I would probably be looking for the next place to get to also. Somebody said to me once that the only thing in the way of you and this place you seek is YOU. They compared seeking therefore to someone trying to grab themselves by the ankles to lift themselves out of the way.. NOT POSSIBLE
… In the US I would recommend a guy called Rick Linchitz..he gives talks in Germany from time to time..and you can see those on www dot here-now-tv dot com plus he has a day job in New York.. and a website called www dot linchitzwellness dot com/.. Though he will probably tell you that there is no point coming to him…
yours with his tail wagging also hoping for grace…which apparently is oneness pretending to be separate from oneness hoping for grace
Frank
Posted by Sandy Jones on 03.26.10 11:06 am
Hey Kozan,
I read your post and I felt compelled to write. I knew a wonderful man who seemed quite enlightened, his name was William Samuel. He wrote several books, but one of them is a very basic little primer book ‘about Reality’— I will share a few excerpts from the book titled 2+2=Reality;
These are all out of ‘context’ but I am sure you are well steeped in this study of ‘advaita’ enough to hear what is being said, beyond these short clips; The whole book of course would be better to read,its a brilliant little book, but here are some short clips:
Here and now, you can begin this personal effort to determine just what Fact, Principle, Reality, Truth ITSELF is. In spite of all that mankind has been told for centuries, this is not an impossible task. It is not hard to do. It is not even an uphill struggle. It is the happiest thing you will ever undertake. As one divests himself of former beliefs and opinions and begins to arrive at his very own concept of God, through his own effort, from out the wisdom of his own heart, then God, Reality, Truth reveals Itself to that one—just as it has been said, “Seek and ye shall find.”
Everyone, every single person on this earth can arrive at a precise understanding of God! How can this be so? Because God is uncomplicated and easily understood! When one lets go all the things they say about God and stops accepting them blindly as his own beliefs, God becomes remarkably apparent. And why not? What sort of God would it be that withholds Himself from all those who have not suffered enough, studied hard enough, searched diligently enough or prayed earnestly enough in just the right way? What sort of God would it be who absents Himself from those who have not been baptized in this or that fashion, or have not joined this organization or that one? What sort of Love would it be that withholds itself from half the population of the world because it is not Christian or Muslim, because it is not acquainted with this or that arcane, unprofaned wisdom; what sort of Love withholds itself from those not subscribing to this or that set of dogmas and beliefs, not honoring this or that ritual and that ceremony?
Well, be assured, God does not withhold Himself from aught. God is right here, right now, closer than fingers and toes, closer than breathing. There is no distance nor separation between oneself and God, mentally or otherwise. You will find that God is all that is here, and “They shall all know me from the least of them to the greatest, saith the Lord.”
God’s simplicity is astounding. It is this very simplicity that the pompous intellect of mankind can neither see nor understand while struggling through its jungle of erudite beliefs.
Let the beliefs go. Let what “they say” go. Drop all the old personal opinions no matter how near and dear they seem. You start anew, turning within to the heart. Then when you arrive at your own meaning of God, you happily find you are also discovering your own real Identity and its childlike simplicity.
——-
I am yet to meet an agnostic or atheist who cannot accept the existence and presence of God once we agree on just what Reality is. Usually, atheists deny and agnostics doubt the actuality of God as they understand and define God. They are quite right, because God as they define Him could not possibly exist. But God as God is, is neither doubted nor denied by a single man on this earth and never has been. God, as God is, is accepted without question, even without resistance, by everyone because God is the very basis of being, the fact of real existence. Why, God is Life itself. Show me an atheist who will deny he is alive!
——-
The doubters and deniers are invariably throwing rocks at their own misconceptions of God, at the usual definitions of God, or at the generally accepted idea of what God can do. I am quick to agree that the popular idea of God is incorrect and that such a God does not exist—and never has. But God, as God is, does exist as a very present Reality and as the undeniable basis of Existence. Truth, Reality, Fact exists. This is all that really does exist right here, right now.
The agnostic is not questioning Fact; he is questioning a misstatement about Fact. The misstatement has nothing to do with Fact at all, just as the incorrect statement 2 plus 2 is 5 has nothing to do with the fact of arithmetic. A man is blind who breaks with Fact itself and doubts its existence just because an individual or an organization makes a misstatement in the name of Fact.
You no longer need be concerned with the many misstatements of others. You can determine what Fact is to yourself and stay there. As you do this you find yourself less concerned about what is not Fact and much more concerned with the Infinite Fact of Perfect Being ITSELF.
ABOUT SCIENCE AND RELIGION
Much has been said about the incompatibility of science and religion. While there may often be a difference between science and the beliefs about God as they are professed by the many human organizations, there is no argument between God as God is and anything. Absolute Reality is the basis for the existence of ‘things’—and science is the study of ‘things’. Science now remarkably indicates the holistic singleness and absolute perfection of existence. Scientists are finally discovering the truths that some philosophies have expounded for thousands of years. This lag exists simply because science starts with the appearance of ‘things’ and works back to the reality which is their basis. The scientist is somewhat like a mathematician who starts with a group of numbers on a piece of paper. While they are only numbers at first, the astute mathematician eventually comes to understand the underlying perfect principle which the numbers are manifestations of. Obviously, the fastest discoveries concerning numbers are made by those who start first with the principle itself. Knowledge of the principle is automatic knowledge of the numbers, which exist only to manifest the principle.
In this so-called human experience, those who concern themselves with reality as reality is find themselves with a magnificently all-embracing knowledge of ‘things’. On the other hand, starting with the multitude of ‘things’, one can hope for only a smattering of knowledge in a few fields of human concern. Commencing with the Principle of all Being and living out from there, one finds oneself with knowledge basic to every ‘thing’ in all fields of human endeavor he needs to know about. This knowledge comes without years of study in the universities and without pondering innumerable tomes of human erudition.
Ok, back to my work-Kozan, I hope you read his work, I have a wonderful feeling you are very ready for his way of saying what all these who understand Non-duality are saying-he has a very special way with words where its sort of like the Heart can hear.
That’s all, I think you will really love Bill– Thanks
Posted by Cheryl on 03.26.10 11:31 am
Hey I resemble that remark.:)
The point of non duality pointers is to go beyond the need of further help, right?
In the Buddhist practice I was involved in many of the Monks (and a few nuns) some way up on the hierarchy scale disrobed (or were asked to disrobe) after decades and the usual culprit was ‘sexual misconduct’ (mostly under the guise of tantric practice). They just couldn’t walk that fine line between what was spiritual practice and what was sex. You sit there and imagine half naked goddesses and imagine doing the nasty with them and what do you expect to happen? It just seemed like nobody could get it quite right? Apparently to get back in the game you had to do some serious purifying. But hopefully most of them just had a laugh and went along their merry way. And maybe they’ll be lucky enough to run into someone like Bob or Gilbert (and the like) who just give you the straight goods. Maybe?
Posted by gilbert on 03.26.10 11:53 am
As long as there is belief in being a separate being, then the dog chases its own tail.
Even though it is pointed out a million times, it seems to leave no ‘mark’ and of course it does not.
Like writing a message with the finger in a pond of water. No trace is left, except some subtle, almost invisible disturbance in the clear and obvious nature of awareness.
There is NO answer in the mind.
The revelation of all revelations is not a concept or an idea.
Right now, is there an incling of what is being pointed to?
Or is the mind simply going with the words and making its assessment of the words and MISSING what is being pointed to?
You can’t shoot yourself with a bow and arrow – just the same as you can’t hit the mark with a thought projection.
The target is Non-Conceptual awareness.
Put down all your tools and weapons. Relax and open to this clear and obvious moment, which NEVER ever can be found – you can only be THAT. It is NOT a concept.
Posted by gilbert on 03.26.10 12:01 pm
As for clear teachers: ‘People’ rave about Krishnamurti and thousands upon thousands read his many books and followed him about like sheep. Where is the evidence that anyone ever truly got something from it? if there is some evidence, then it is hearsay…..an appearance, a concept and nothing but a concept. What good is it? Has it transformed YOU? Or is it just more to HOPE for and imitate?
In the same way ‘people’ rave about the ‘new guru’ and follow him about.
These ‘new gurus’ are salesmen and they all offer subtle methods and the hope that by ‘rubbing shoulders’ with them, some miraculous ‘event’ will happen. “One more retreat” – that should do the trick.
If any bright intellectual ever bothered to study this phenomena, it would very quickly become so obvious that no one ever gets anything. ‘People’ just love having ‘a Hero’ and they enslave themselves to all manner of conceptual nonsense. The making of Idols is never-ending.
Salvery to images in the mind – and NOT one of those images is anything but an image, an Ideal, a concept of something ‘higher’ and so unattainable, except through imagination – and what good is that? Thousands a deluded into belief in a ‘special being’ which is nothing but slavery to a concept of being separate.
Basically it is ALL an appearance in the clear and present awareness that YOU ARE.
THAT is one without a second. There is no way around THAT.
Isn’t it obvious? Where is the guru or teacher, if not in the appearance that we call the world?
In Essence everything is ONE.
It is un-mediated, undifferentiated, presence-awareness.
Posted by nopathatall on 03.26.10 2:26 pm
the virtue of seeing impedes the ability to point for the lost. having seen, it is impossible to revisit the dream and provide effective directions to the wanderers…
i haven’t seen the waterfall but i hear it..
Posted by Scarfox on 03.26.10 2:32 pm
What do you mean ‘but the memory of me (Gilbert)is still here, in contrast to Bob?
Posted by gilbert on 03.26.10 5:33 pm
If a ‘waterfalls’ in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?
The ability to describe the indescribable always fails. As soon as you open your mouth it is both ‘Not it’ and it ‘IS it’.
The discriminating mind must dissolve – ‘when and how’ that ‘appears’ to happen cannot be predicted and ‘when and if’ is ever ‘appears’ to happen, there is no one left to speak about it.
As the Buddha is reported to have said: “Events happen, deeds are done – there is no individual do-er thereof”.
Never underestimate the ability of one who knows – for the estimation is only discriminating mind fighting for its own imaginary life.
To ‘use’ an old ‘saying’ and ‘flip’ it slightly:
“Cast the BEAM from your OWN eye and SEE what IS”. (Beam of light)
Posted by fernando on 03.26.10 11:08 pm
Right here and now, you are free (100% free) or you are not.
You cannot be 50, 90, or 99% free.
You are totally free, or totally in bondage.
Now,
«What IS never ceases to be; what IS NOT never comes into existence.» (Parmenides)
If freedom is not right here and now, it will NEVER come into existence.
(hellow mark?)
Posted by paul on 03.27.10 6:29 am
Gilbrt says “Detectable absence of me in Bob”, “thought of me still arises in Gilbert”. Doesnt matter the thought has no power once the illusion of me is obvious. Will agree that some body/minds(hate that eepression) express it clearly more than others. Though I understand where Gilbert is coming from one has to be careful in talking about absence of me it can send seekers of into trying to get rid of a me which doesnt exist anyway. There is no me , once this is seen(by no one) all is ok to arise including thoughts of a me , its all appearence doesnt matter.
Posted by Scarfox on 03.27.10 7:44 am
What would be the point of a me or I-thoughts post seeing through…is it a still true voice? sounds corny if so
Posted by Scarfox on 03.27.10 7:50 am
I disagree, what is freedom if we are already free? If you aren’t free of the illusion of me, then you are not free of that. What other freedom is there? The lottery lied. There’s no two ways about it, if you believe you aren’t free you are just as not free as you believe. The message is not do nothing and good luck, consciousness moves consciousness, there is only consciousness speaking to itself.
Do you think people who point are speaking to the ego? No, Impossible.
Posted by fernando on 03.27.10 8:38 am
I get your point, scarfox, but if we are not free, then, logically we BECOME free, and there is NO becoming.
Look, the Sailor Bob pointer «start from the FACT that you are THAT» is incredibly powerful. Sailor says that it’s EASIER to start from here than from the other extreme (sorry my English, please).
When you are dreaming and in the dream you are in jail, would you say that you REALLY were in jail?
We are free but we are IMAGINING we are not free. That’s the point.
Posted by gilbert on 03.27.10 8:50 am
‘People’ believe in things that don’t exist. A ‘person’ is a non-existent ‘thing’. A mirage of water is a mirage of water.
As soon as the mirage is investigated the concept of H2O loses its ‘taste’ or ’substance’. Imaginary ‘wet’ is not wetness.
In fact the image-ary of ‘water’ can drive you insane if you are dying of thirst.
Speaking of water…Dehydration is a major cause of many ‘general’ physical problems with the body. Coffee and Tea are diuretics; they make you want to pee. The elderly even ‘look’ dehydrated and it is because they are. Joints rattle and roll because there is not enough moisture (water) in the body. The available water has moved to the vital organs to preserve ‘life’.
The intelligence demonstrated by the body is ’superior’ to that of the so-called individual, who appears to go against the intuitive ’senses’ of the body. Mule dung smothers ‘Good Sense’.
The infamous ‘Stubborn Mule’. Why am I writing this? Have no idea.
Maybe because Cashify is lazy or hiding on some Island somewhere.
Or….Maybe because ’seekers’ are like a stubborn mule.
Things are NOT what they appear to be.
To be provocative for just a moment: There is probably a story rolling around in your head, a story about yourself, the ‘me story’. And it may appear to have a momentum to it and maybe you have no ‘idea’ about what it is like to be without it. But who is that? And when you really take a look – it ceases, naturally it ceases. It is a dream.
The ‘me’ does not actually exist – it is simply an idea, a belief, a dream about individuality.
It is the ME that resists what is clearly obvious.
Fabricated ‘reason’ is always disappointing.
But for whom? Who is disappointed? …and by what?
Posted by Cheryl on 03.27.10 12:10 pm
What I use to believe was I was a part of the whole that needed to be integrated. But the truth it turns out is there are no parts to anything, it is all one essence expressing as everything. As a result It’s no longer a spiritual quest for a me as an individual to find wholeness. An individual by its very definition will never find wholeness. At the very least it has been recognized that a ‘personal self’ will never find the so called answer. It doesn’t mean there is no answer, it just means you, as an individual, will not find it.
Posted by gilbert on 03.27.10 1:00 pm
In the ‘good old days’ of school we had to get the answers right in an examination.
The answer had to fit exactly or at least within a fairly tight range of possible answers.
Is your psyche orderly? Are you a control freak? Are you constantly sitting for an examination?
Judging yourself, trying to be acceptable to yourself or to some ‘others’ out there?
This is not an examination and there are no perks and quirks for being a good student, having all the right answers.
Leaning by rote has a limited value.
Brain washing oneself with Non Dual Lingo is obviously not only useless, it is downright annoying to listen to.
Basically an answer is ‘related’ to a question.
The question and the one asking the question are the same.
An answer solves a question in one instant.
Investigate the questioner and realize that it is a concept.
Just as the thinker is a thought, the questioner is the question.
What brought the question into view?
Belief in something that ’causes’ a conflict or dis-ease in the mind.
Reference points in conflict is dis-ease.
The answer to all questions about being separate is: There is no separation.
All the “Yes But’s……and the “If’s”etc appear and disappear.
Take a close look……….really expand it all out and look into it.
See if you can find a problem.
“Ah ha”
Posted by gilbert on 03.27.10 1:23 pm
You may believe, in the privacy of ‘your own thoughts’ that you are an ‘enlightened being’ or ‘almost there’ and that you just need a little shove in the right direction. There are plenty ‘out there’ who will entertain such notions and they will robe you blind for the pleasure of telling you what you want to hear.
But what is it that you DON’T want to hear?
What have you been avoiding all ‘your life’?
Isn’t it the fact that this ‘me’ is nothing but a fragile concept, one that ‘makes you suffer’. No matter how much you pump it up, you have to protect that ‘balloon’ from ‘nasty little critters’ (like me) who will deflate it with one prick.
Some ‘balloons’ are 90% patchwork and they all leak.
There are no separate enlightened beings. Belief is NOT the Actual.
It is a dream. Your dream.
Posted by nopathatall on 03.27.10 1:25 pm
this is exactly where i end up. it’s not what i expected or thought i wanted, it’s just what is, as is, right here, right now, make peace with it and be it…
as far as i goes, just too tired to struggle about it, let it be however it is…
Posted by nopathatall on 03.27.10 1:28 pm
the deeper we dig into reality the less there is to find…
let it go…
Posted by Cheryl on 03.27.10 2:01 pm
“Ah ha’ indeed…:)
Posted by Scarfox on 03.27.10 3:17 pm
Check out the ‘Introduction’ on Bob’s website, it is powerful and one should probably read it more than once. The title introduction is ironic in the sense that it has all the pointing you need, the introduction and the conclusion..
Posted by anatta on 03.27.10 5:16 pm
I was thinking about a huge, 500 page book called “The Truth”. On the first page it would say: “The truth can’t be expressed by words” and the rest would be blank for whatever the reader wanted to write.
Words relate to concepts and none are real. Even the concept that none are real isn’t real.
Advaita, as a belief system, is as false as any of the others. Thought cannot describe reality. Being IS and resists definition or categorization. All “systems” are equally false.
Posted by gilbert on 03.27.10 5:51 pm
Yes, well put Annatta, except for the ‘Being resists’ bit. Being does no resist anything. Everything IS and that which is not, is not.
How can there be conflict between something that exists and something that does not exist? Impossible.
Some clever intellects say things like “The existence of non-existence” and they feel very clever. Advaita is not a belief system – the word simply means NOT TWO. Dvaita means TWO and A-dvaita mean Not Two.
What the sanskrit words Vidya and Avidya mean is, as I remember it now, ‘Ignorance’ and ‘the absence of ignorance’ or ‘not-ignorant’.
There is nothing more simple than Non Duality. Awareness is self-knowing – there is no one who is aware. That is the actuality.
Clever ‘people’ never appreciate the true meaning of anything. They are too busy keeping one step ahead of everyone else, which is ignorance.
Posted by gilbert on 03.27.10 6:31 pm
We need some fresh input from listeners who have not make comments as yet. The numbers of listeners is not low my any means. No need to be shy. And…….where are all the Cashify fans? Too busy watching all those videos.
Posted by fernando on 03.28.10 12:32 am
«See all suffering, doubts, questions, problems, issues, imagined attainments and losses as movements in the mind. They are all thought generated. Apart from thoughts, those things have no existence whatsoever. Nail this insight completely. Do not move from this until it is absolutely clear. There is nothing wrong with the body, mind, world or other people at any time. Fighting with those things is completely futile. All problems are the mind’s labels, judgments and interpretations. We must see that all problems are sustained and created by the mind which is fabricating them. That is one aspect. Believing the thoughts to be true is where the real bondage arises, because if you do not believe them, they have no power. – But first you need to clearly see what you are dealing with – thoughts, pure and simple.» (John Wheeler)
Posted by kozan on 03.28.10 1:36 am
To love your self is to love “this”, this no self. surrender your ideas, thoughts, concepts, history, story and gain the kingdom you have never been apart from. This is the love Nisargadatta speaks of.
the error never existed.
Posted by Fred on 03.28.10 4:43 am
Years ago it struck me that there were 2 things of importance;
1. Non-resistance- letting go of trying to change the appearance-, and,
2. Seeing the appearance as it actually is- as it occurs. (What is).
alternatively;
1. Non correction of appearances
2. Awareness
Posted by Scarfox on 03.28.10 5:18 am
0. Suchness
Posted by suki on 03.28.10 5:41 am
Two aspects of One-thing,being no-thing.
Posted by Fred on 03.28.10 8:47 am
We cannot choose the “what is”. the “what is” just keeps appearing continuously and spontaneously, or perhaps more accurately, we cannot choose the items, thoughts, feelings, place, setting, company,weather etc of the “what is”- the “what is” is simply given to us.
But we think that we can control the “what is” and so we have plans and ambitions to bring about the desired “what is”, but we are never satisfied, it is never quite right so we complain and become disillusioned with life.
When we stop trying to control the flow of appearances then the appearances are all seen to be equal in awareness as bliss.
Posted by Will on 03.28.10 9:53 am
no one knows who you are
Posted by Will on 03.28.10 10:00 am
No one knows who you are, I told em.
Them clever boys
Who like to leave a trace of just how clever they are
By leaving nothing other than the idea of nothing
Posted by Scarfox on 03.28.10 11:51 am
There is no one to know who no one is
Posted by gilbert on 03.28.10 2:42 pm
“Everything is (already) resolved in the unborn mind” Simple words from a Zen ‘master’ who was really just an ordinary monk.
Posted by Randall Friend on 03.28.10 2:47 pm
There is no dividing line between an experience and the experiencing. In calling them as such, the mind automatically places them in time and space – gives them independent reality. Therefore the world of experience is a manifestation of mind alone.
Filter out what is content and what is the pure subjective “I”-ness – that “I” is not an individual – it is absolutely formless, contentless, attribute-less. It has no location or duration, nothing measurable, nothing quantifiable, yet it can never be denied.
Why? Because SEEING/KNOWING is happening. That knowing cannot be located as an object, although the mind has placed it upon or contained it conceptually within a form. Yet that form is entirely objective content. Is it not true?
See if there is any actual division between the objective experience and the KNOWING.
Posted by Fred on 03.28.10 4:34 pm
Questions;
Do you “practice” nonduality?
Is accessing nonduality information your practice (with the goal of understanding in mind)?
If you are seeking then how do you reconcile the nondual approach (practice) of listening, reading, and trying to understand, with the nondual concept of no one to practice?
Are you hoping the “me” will magically drop away?
How many years does it usually take of nondual stewing?
If it isn’t working is it your fault?…
Are you satisfied with the concept that there is no one for it not to work for?
Can these questions be answered without cute nonduality one-liner answers.
Posted by Scarfox on 03.28.10 4:36 pm
There is no dividing line between awareness and even my finger, or anything. Forget ‘neti neti’ or ‘detached awareness’.
When Chang Ching, after twenty years of meditation, happened to lift the curtain and see the outside world, he lost all his previous understanding of Zen, and cried: “How mistaken I was! How mistaken I was! Raise the screen and see the world.”
Posted by max on 03.28.10 5:20 pm
It is.
Posted by Fred on 03.28.10 5:38 pm
No it is not.
Posted by max on 03.28.10 5:44 pm
More please,
Posted by gilbert on 03.28.10 6:30 pm
In all good faith a ‘teacher’ may say “First you MUST see…..such and such….”
The actuality is that SEEING is already ‘happening’ and the ‘I see’ cannot see….it is simply a translation of mind…and all translations are ‘time bound’.
REALITY is ‘no time’.
Belief is time.
Where are you?
Can you truly find anything that you can truly say ‘This is what I am” – ?
The next program will touch upon many of these ‘points’. Hint: A ‘demolition team’ meet the ‘construction site’ and the ‘two teams’ clash – the ‘score’ is NIL.
Posted by fernando on 03.28.10 11:08 pm
There really are no words for expressing my profound gratitude for your wonderful work in UGC.
Thank you VERY much, Gilbert & Areti!!
P.S. We miss your comments, Areti…
Posted by Randall Friend on 03.29.10 1:03 am
Is it “ME seeing” or does the “ME” arrive and pass as content in the already-present SEEING?
Notice that ME is 100% content, experience. The “experiencing” has no individuality, no personal self.
The “I”-thought arises in parallel to greet various other thoughts, sensations and activities. It is the obligatory but unnecessary noun required in language. That is identification in action.
Notice that “what you are” is always here. It cannot be defined by the concept “ME”, for that ME is always wandering and changing. That “always-here-ness” is the blank canvas upon which the story of ME unfolds. Stay with the unchanging reality and notice that you cannot be anything which comes and goes.
Posted by Sandy Jones on 03.29.10 5:23 am
This talk was about Authority—here is something to add to that theme; (From William Samuel–The Awareness of Self-Discovery)
WHERE THE AUTHORITY IS
God, the reality being this single and only Awareness I Am, is the authority that blooms that bud, scatters the seed and flashes it Cosmic Light around the universe. This authority has never been vested in a human organization, be it a body with organs, a scientific institution, a financial institution, a marriage institution or a smother church. Furthermore, none of us has ever been unfaithful to this Divine Authority being Identity nor “lapsed from the faith.” How, in God’s allness, can Identity lapse from Itself?
Undoubtedly, organizations (even as the body) perform legitimate, worthwhile services, but those services are abrogated to whatever extent we give the organization power to enslave its members or to whatever extent we claim a position of superiority or inferiority for our own appearances of organization or views of Reality.
Isness, not people, is the genuine authority for individual action. The consciousness that reads these words stands as its own self-evident proof of being. Deity’s awareness of existence. Its relationship to Being is not governed by the man-made laws of any intermediary, no matter how correctly (Divinely) authorized it is or professes to be. The communion between Reality and this consciousness we are is not now and has never been routed through any external church, philosophy, system, leader, ritual, institution or book—to include the Bible. Intercourse with Reality is direct, as direct as Allness is ever its own sameness. Enlightenment, the “mysterious agreement,” is between IS and AM, the single ONE, Self-evident to and as this Awareness-I-am. My proof of this fact is the Light I live as, and see enlightening my Experience.
When this is understood, we find our Light appearing on the scene via books, institution, friends and strangers at every turn of the road—and we know when that appearing is our own Within disclosing Itself to us in the language of the moment.
The “authority of the organization,” whatever its appearing, resides in That being THIS consciousness. That which presents itself as intermediary—pope, church, institution, society, bible or canon of ancient law— exists powerless in “us” (Me) as images of this awareness-I-Am. (William Samuel—The Awareness of Self-Discovery)
Posted by nopathatall on 03.29.10 10:59 am
I find myself in the same state of wondering so please take these responses with the necessary grain of salt:
Do you “practice” nonduality?
non-duality is not practiced, what could the practice be?
Is accessing nonduality information your practice (with the goal of understanding in mind)?
not so much a practice (e.g. ritualistic repetition)as inquiry as to the truth of existence
If you are seeking then how do you reconcile the nondual approach (practice) of listening, reading, and trying to understand, with the nondual concept of no one to practice?
what else is there to do in this mode? perhaps profoundly accepting what is and noticing awareness as the fog clears?
Are you hoping the “me” will magically drop away?
not per se, it’s more about wanting to cease struggling
How many years does it usually take of nondual stewing?
why think about time? let now be what it is…
If it isn’t working is it your fault?…
why think about fault? let now be as it is…
Are you satisfied with the concept that there is no one for it not to work for?
i don’t know that perspective of the complete non being of self, although it seems to be inescapable
Can these questions be answered without cute nonduality one-liner answers.
probably not by those with direct experience
Posted by Ekhmm on 03.29.10 1:05 pm
“No need to be shy. And…….where are all the Cashify fans?”
Here I am
How many people saw “this reality” thanks to your broadcasts? Is there anyone?
You produce these comments in such a fast speed that it’ll take some time to get to know it all. I think that everything has been spoken and I don’t have nothing new to ask, so i can only tell you that I sometimes read what you write here but the more words/texts i read the more i feel lost. Nonduality is horrible as a philosophy.
Posted by gilbert on 03.29.10 3:45 pm
The rivers are over-fished. Professional fishermen net everyday. Therefore fishing is now about relaxing, not expecting to catch a fish.
When one does bite, we usually throw it back…….
Non Duality is not a philosophy, not by any long shot with a short bow.
Or is that a cheap shot with a longbow?
No one is ‘producing’ comments fast or slow. Everything is as it is.
The labels imply ‘someone’ behind them – but is there someone, anyone, anywhere at all?
Some appear to be ‘out there’ brave and brazen and others appear to be hiding behind a curtain full of moth-holes. Some appear to peer at life from behind a ‘blind’ and others appear to look with their eyeballs hanging out of their heads.
There are no individuals….(or fish to catch).
But the polite thing to say is “Thank you for your comment, how brave of you” ……and “Please come again”.
Smiling, for no ‘reason’.
Posted by gilbert on 03.29.10 4:05 pm
In some ‘religions’ it is totally forbidden to utter the name of God.
You may react strongly to that ‘information’.
In some ancient ‘teachings’ sacred texts were read by a ‘teacher’ in whispers down a long hollow bamboo stick.
Your are ‘absolutely unique’ and nothing is necessary, to ‘happen’ or ‘to change’ for you to realize what you are.
You ALREADY KNOW – it is just that the mind has a restless nature and it spins off endless ‘passages’ of ‘meaning-less’ and ‘meaningful’ dialogs.
Who is listening?
Posted by max on 03.30.10 12:24 am
“No It is not” Fred
How is It not?
Not disagreeing here, just looking for clarity.
In the play of course.
Thanks
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 12:33 am
A: “Tis too”.
B: “Nup”.
A: “Tis”.
B: “You are wrong”,
A: “Nup, I am right, you are wrong”
B: “You’re ugly”
A: “You’re gross”
B: “Am not”
A: “Are so”.
B: “You’re Grandmother wears army boots”.
A: “This is ridiculous”
B: “No it isn’t”
A: “Yes it is”.
Announcer: “We will be back after a short commercial break”.
Posted by milton on 03.30.10 12:40 am
If you hear Gilbert’s pointers with open ears, it will be confirmed that all is well, all has been well, and all will be well, no catch, no gimmicks, nothing to hold on to, nothing to let go. You don’t have to be special, clever, spiritual, or even ready. You don’t have to wait, prepare, or pay you dues (or him). What a gift!
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 1:21 am
If you truly HEAR any clear pointers – it is a gift, a gift of the grandest magnitude and yet it is nothing.
Beware of getting stuck on the messenger. The clearest messenger does not gather flocks of seekers around them. Compassion will act, to either deliver the message quickly and painlessly – or dismiss those who refuse to hear the message (after a certain time limit), those who are stuck on admiring the messenger are tolerated up to a point and then compassion acts by ‘touching’ the core issue. Some will run and some will hear the message.
Those who indulge in being offended by mere words cannot be open to hear the words of the message.
It is only a ME that can get angry or be offended.
True compassion is not some loving bullshit story to protect the ME.
Posted by max on 03.30.10 1:37 am
Thanks Milton
Special? Clever? Spiritual? You would have to be a masochist to come here for that.
Just a genuine impulse to understand happening here. Im open to a slap now and then, but I want to know why.
Thanks again
Posted by fernando on 03.30.10 1:45 am
«I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organised; nor should any organisation be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path.
(…) Because I am free, unconditioned, whole, not the part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal, I desire those, who seek to understand me, to be free, not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears – from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want any thing from anyone. You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers – a miracle – transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority.
(…) No man from outside can make you free; nor can organised worship, nor the immolation of yourselves for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organisation, nor throwing yourselves into work, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an alter and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organisations become your chief concern.
(…) But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without a beginning and without an end, will walk together with greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand.
(…) You can form other organisations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.»
(J. Krishnamurti, Dissolution of the Order of The Star)
Posted by frankly on 03.30.10 2:08 am
Question for uz all. I am speaking as honestly as possible. I have been looking at this for sometime. IE Trying to get it. Despite hearing that “I” can’t get it.. I keep looking. One eye has a ‘cute look’ out to try and get it. Despite hearing that I am already whole complete etc..I keep looking.. Or thought keeps appearing ‘You have not got it yet”..and no other thought comes into question that thought. So the next thought is “that it must be true that I don’t get it”. Th words i read here just wash over ME. really wash over. They don’t affect ME or that thought.. Now I feel in my heart that I want to get this that I am open and that all my beliefs of a nice cleverly wrapped story of how to live are long gone. Yet the thought is still here, “I have not found”. It is like i am totally immune to all of the words here. I love them, but they wash over me totally. All these pointers just wash over me and I want to hear them properly or see past them it doesn’t happen. I suppose what I am asking or saying is that Do i really want to get this or what is happening that they have no impact It is like throwing a feather at a brick wall trying to knock it down…No impact.. and yet i am still looking at the corner of my eye for a sledge hammer. Don’t get caught up on the hammer wall thing. I am not trying to get rid of the ME..I am trying to remember that all is well as it is even when its not. You know what i mean. any advice?
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 2:25 am
We bind ourselves up with ‘words’. “I don’t get it”….”I have not got it yet”…etc.
“The words don’t affect me”….”They wash over me”.
The basic belief is that “I am in this body looking out”.
With concepts and words, that ‘I’ adds to itself a ‘wall of separation’ made of nothing but ephemeral concepts.
A voice from beyond all attachment to time and space says: “YOU ARE NOT THE BODY – NOR THE MIND”.
It is a ‘pointer’.
When this is HEARD…..an investigation happens spontaneously.
Everything that binds you is revealed in that moment – however, the HABIT of belief, in being exposed, reacts as mental noise.
Identified consciousness is just a habit and a habit can be broken.
There are NO methods to become what you already are.
You are NOT a ‘person’ trapped or otherwise.
In the true nature of this immediate present which has no becoming to it, ‘become’ familiar with dropping all concepts.
Words have no independent substance and are obvious ephemeral appearance(s).
HOW could they bind what you truly are?
They cannot. Innately you KNOW this – but it is wordless understanding.
SEEING that and KNOWING that is the only way to disentangle the mind from erroneous beliefs.
You have the potential to leave the habits of the past to the past.
“Let the dead bury the dead”.
Nothing can exist without energy – and beliefs are energy.
Stop believing by simply SEEING what is the ACTUALITY.
Then the whole universe washes over you and leaves NO trace.
One without a second – time-less – space-less – Presence Awareness.
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 2:37 am
If you cling to the ‘me’ you will drown like a dog in a raging river of turmoil. There is no way out of the mind, except through NO MIND.
If you pursue this ‘seeking’ it will keep on leading you on a wild goose chase.
There is NO ‘me’ – it is just a word, a concept.
How can you possibly be a word or a concept?
A sting of concepts or words can bind a believed in ‘entity’ but ONLY in the APPEARANCE.
Words can also POINT.
Torture yourself if you must – but it is unnecessary.
How can you be a concept?
Posted by fernando on 03.30.10 3:49 am
Frankly,
What is THAT which is aware of these words?
What is THAT which is aware of your ‘own’ words?
‘Your’ internal dialogue cannot be THAT, because THAT is aware of internal dialogue.
You are THAT which is aware of ‘my’ words, of ‘your’ words and of EVERYTHING else.
‘You’ can’t NEVER ‘get it’ because THAT is YOU, THAT is what you really ARE.
“You are THAT which ‘you’ are looking for”.
Posted by nopathatall on 03.30.10 6:35 am
Keep the clear pointers coming!
Posted by nopathatall on 03.30.10 10:11 am
I have waited
for a long time
I am not waiting anymore
I have sought
to understand the mystery
I shall not seek anymore
I can’t make it happen
I can’t get it
so be it
surrendering to
what is
as it is
accepting
what is
as it is
what is
as it is
is sufficient
now
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 10:12 am
Self-aware.
Not two.
You are THAT.
Everything is THAT.
Posted by nopathatall on 03.30.10 10:20 am
Artificial Horizon
Airplane pilots lose all sense of up, down, right or left when flying through clouds. If they try to use their sense of direction or balance they invariably miscalculate with often fatal results. Only by placing their fate in the indications of an instrument that provides an artificial horizon can they safely fly through a cloud bank.
Clear pointers are my/our artificial horizon.
My life flight course no longer makes any sense to the visceral me, but if I am honest it never did before either.
I sure hope there aren’t any mountains in these clouds….
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 10:59 am
The pilot, the cloud and the mountain are APPEARANCE.
What you truly are is not moving.
Observe the body moving, arms swaying, legs taking steps.
The floor travels under the body and the kitchen doorway passes around you. The kitchen bench draws near and a glass is filled with water. The glass moves towards the mouth and drinking happens.
What is it that NEVER changes or moves?
‘You’ believe that there is someone there ‘doing’ it all.
“It is ‘ME’” may appear as a thought.
Where did that thought come from?
It is a subtle movement upon emptiness.
Verbalize it and it appears to have MORE substance.
Believe in that ‘me’ and it takes on a whole drama and every bit of it is simply APPEARANCE.
You are NOT in the appearance.
What you truly are is no thing, upon which all things appear.
THAT is pointing to itself.
THAT has NO need to point at itself – it is self-aware.
There is no getting this and there is no not getting this.
You ARE THAT……there are NO two ways about that.
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 11:07 am
Those who suffer from diagnosed disorders should follow the advice of professional help.
The Ultimate medicine is SEEING that there is no separate entity.
In struggling with the ‘me’ and the ‘not me’ concepts, it will drive you mad.
Years of struggling is unnecessary.
Take any clear pointer and it is enough.
The ‘me’ has no independence and no substance – it is belief.
Investigate that ‘me’ and don’t waste any time.
Give it 100%.
Be genuine.
There is nothing to be afraid of in your true nature.
Imagination is where the ‘problems’ are.
Posted by Fred on 03.30.10 4:51 pm
Max
I meant the “It is not” comment as a tongue in cheek response to “it is”. Like you will hear that you are everything, and then you are nothing. But after posting it I thought it was a bit of a crap response so best ignore it. My point is that these cute one liners are great at stimulating the mind and little else.
My point also is that non-duality is an approach (a teaching even) not unlike others but disguised as such because it likes to declare itself as not being a teaching. Seekers choose their non dual “communicators” to listen to and put together a package that they hope will work for them. Sometimes it really does because the pointers can help the seeker to see what is already so (which is truly excellent) but also some real honesty is required—-this is that in my experience and observation, for what it is worth, it doesn’t work for the vast majority of people-(and to be really honest it didn’t work for me, and I gave it a dam good shot)
The approach is very very wordy and very very conceptual -no disrespect to the speaker on this podcast but it is a good example–
So what to do? —- Non duality will say there is nothing you can do because you are already it (and there is no one)— so no joy there.
But there is something you can do— you can keep tuning back in to your already complete nature again and again until it is established. Not a practice designed to take you anywhere but to emphasise your already present clarity. The recognition of your perfect nature takes no time but getting established in it usually does.
Anyhow I think I have finally exhausted what I was really trying to say all along. It isn’t aimed at anyone or against anyone just part of my own expression really (self therapy perhaps?).
Posted by gilbert on 03.30.10 6:26 pm
Idio-syn-cratic.
Non Duality is NOT a teaching.
There is no one hiding behind some facade declaring anything, apart from yourself.
Stop hiding and know that there are no ‘others’.
Posted by Fred on 03.30.10 11:01 pm
I see it as being an approach that some people get hooked into for better or worse.
My last post got shortened. The bit that was left out was the recommendation to check out Kiloby for a more instinctual approach. For the no ‘others’ out there.
ED: We at the UGC do not recommend Kiloby. If you want to be deluded about love and other nonsense, go ahead.
Posted by piersede on 03.30.10 11:14 pm
From this humble perspective, Kozan I do believe that there are degrees of realisation. It seems to me that awakening, in neo-advaita circles, is far too often confused for self-realisation. Though there are many who have understood their true nature, total freedom from vasanas is extremely rare. . Francis Lucille I would say is certainly closer to that point that most. Mooji I would say is another. Both of these people shine the pure light of existence. Of course, this will be opening a gigantic can of worms on this site but since there’s no one here to care, what the hell.
Posted by Ekhmm on 03.31.10 8:42 am
As for me You don’t have to be polite, I am not small-minded/conceited so you can be mean if you want
, it doesn’t matter.
This idea that there is no one here at all is completely amazing – Life is a dream and you’re the dreamer, it is so strange and – i don’t know – it’s very hard to grasp it, how this me (that doesn’t exist) could find it out, i was trying to see this but when i’m doing that bad feelings and sensations arise or it just doesn’t work.
I feel like there was no way to this nondual view, my mind is chasing its own tail for so long. Usually when i’m trying investigate if there is me or what is real or something like that i feel some expectations and what to say i’m stuck.
People like you claim that it is so simple, if it is so, apparently i just can’t see this simplicity.
And there is here one other aspect in me, i feel some sort of bad feelings about these nonduality (i know that my feelings are just feelings and don’t relate with nondual world at all), i feel that if there is no one here life is empty, meaningless, entirely devoid of any sense, DEAD, SAD and COLD. You know what i mean? I don’t have depression but i’m a little bit nihilistic now. I don’t even know why i am writing it here
regards from the most solid and real ‘me’ in the entire Universe
Posted by max on 03.31.10 2:08 pm
“What’s so funny bout peace love & understanding?”
Thanks, Fred
Posted by Fred on 03.31.10 8:19 pm
No worries, can’t beat a bit of Elvis.
Does UGC also not recommend Great Freedom?
Posted by carlodelysid on 04.10.10 5:02 am
Personally I like Francis Lucille. Greg Goode as well. There is no way around the personal with language. We are all talking to someone, offering suggestions. Go with what rings true to you. See? I just did it, and I got nothing on anybody. Some are more direct, like the folks at Urban Guru. I love this approach and it speaks to me, but until it did, the words and ‘practices’ of others served. Now they make me sick.
Posted by kgrey on 03.16.11 5:34 am
Way late, but to Kozan’s: ” who knows completely “I am not the body?” whose unending experience is “not two?”
This question is what prevents you. All questioning is built on existing knowledge. All Q&A is dualistic. How can this help you? You only dig deeper into the dung heap of duality with this searching. Now you want some Guru? For what? To help dig a deeper hole? To dig you out of your own? Put down the damn shovel.
What anyone else knows is irrelevant. Their dung heap. What you “know” is irrelevant. Your dung heap. YOU must (un)do this. You must look. Really go in to this matter of the body, the matter of duality (all that appears is that) [said in my best Guru voice]. Their falseness will reveal, if YOU look and stop asking.
Show me a body that is separate from the Universe. Show me a distinct line of separation between anything. Cannot be. Just look! Everything you believe to be will be seen as false/impermanent/interrelated.
Certainty/finality does not bring peace, abiding in the flow of reality does. Do not seek to end with answers. Do not seek escape. Simply realize the Truth.
Non-duality is not an escape. It is seeing there can be no escape because there was never a trap. To end suffering you stop creating it. “Escape” is irrelevant. A made up problem. Same goes for Ego. All fiction. Stop solving, Be. You are fixated on “being” as a thing, and noun. Various forms and states and such (body, knowledge, etc.). Simply alter the relation so “being” is a verb. The rest takes care of itself.
Advaita, Tao, Zen – these are only things when expressed as words. You path has been long. The reason it goes nowhere is that is the only place that can ever be. Stop. Nothing is lacking. Look!
Either that, or gather up all those possessions and come down to Fort Lauderdale. I’m sure I can find use for your things, and may be able to clear things up for you over a couple lunch chats (you’re buying). Food and drink make for easy metaphors to get a conversation going…
The ordinary is not. The extraordinary is not. Whatever you see as lack, is not. Only This (too much for most).